Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[DJ_21]

People are way too hung on three at the back. Amorim's basic approach is no different to most big teams these days - a combination of pressing and possession, the aim to play the game in the oppostion third, width on both flanks, a couple of players moving in and around the half spaces outside the penalty area. Its a common template. The difference between his style of football and many other coaches who play the same way but with 4 at the back is smaller than the difference between counter attacking football and possession football.

The main concession to his style is needing either attacking full backs, or wingers who can do a shift defensively. This is different from those managers who prefer inverted full backs or inverted wingers. But really, that's not a huge issue, plenty of managers use attacking full backs. Beyond that, the only other issue is the potential to have an extra first team quality CB, which is not really an issue if you buy decent players in the first place, just sell one on.

You almost never get a new manager coming in who doesn't want to make any changes to a squad. There's always some turnover as new managers do their own thing. What matters is that you can adjust a squad to the new manager's style with 2 or 3 new players, rather than needing 7 or 8.

It’s very different to top teams though when defending. We defend with a solid back 5. None of the other top teams do. So that’s a massive difference.

 

[Posh Red]

It's funny to hear the owner name check the shite players who every clued in fan can see are the millstones on the clubs neck. Not just the obvious ones like Sancho and Antony but also Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. Only one spared was Mount.

Probably not the greatest thing for squad harmony if the owner of the club is confirming you're not wanted.

That wasn’t what he said. He said they are still being paid for.

 

[DJ_21]

Only a few top teams play 3 CBs, hence it was a big gamble by us going down that path.

Anyone can have a clear vision, the difficult part is to implement it on the pitch.

True. Some successful teams aswell. Inter Milan being the main one, alonso at Leverkusen last season. Most top teams play either 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 as it gives a lot more attacking freedom.

 

[DJ_21]

Our defence have improved quite a lot recently. De ligt is thriving in a back 3. Our issue is forward players. There actually letting the defence down… our defenders must think every game that we need a clean sheet as if we concede then we ain’t out scoring the opponents.

 

[Posh Red]

Yes but his subtext is obvious. They're not the only ones still being paid for. So is every player signed in the last 4-5 years to some degree.

They're the ones who are worth a tiny fraction of what the club is paying for them in the here and now.

They are the majority of the larger outlays relevant to the previous regime, no?

 

[criticalanalysis]

I haven't read the interview (s?) but going by just some of the quotes, I am more optimistic. I still think Amorim has to show more but if the board really do back him then perhaps, it's more a simple case of bringing down the whole foundation (i.e sell everyone we can) and bring in whoever suits him. It's a gamble but at least it's a concentrated and single minded effort unlike the haphazard approach of before.

Sometimes it is all or nothing and I guess I'd take those odds. At least that gives me some (blind) hope but I know it's going to be a few years before we'll see the type of progress we've all been begging for.

 

[Leftback99]

It's funny to hear the owner name check the shite players who every clued in fan can see are the millstones on the clubs neck. Not just the obvious ones like Sancho and Antony but also Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. Only one spared was Mount.

Probably not the greatest thing for squad harmony if the owner of the club is confirming you're not wanted.

Doesn't he know he's wrong and we should be finishing top 4 with that lot.

 

[stepic]

That is something that really grates on me as we’ve spent years wanting a structure to be put in place so the coach comes in simply to coach rather than choosing the style of play, the footballing identity and what players come in to fit the system and Ratcliffe himself publicly said those days are gone yet here we are again.

I really want Amorim to succeed but if he doesn’t then do we then go for Xabi Alonso or Oliver Glasner or Antonio Conte because they also play 3-4-2-1 ? Or do we do the same thing yet again and bring in a coach who has to have yet another overhaul because the players don’t fit that coach ?

I hear from a lot on here that Amorim’s formation doesn’t require specialists then it’s that he doesn’t have the players he needs for his formation to work, either way I hope he succeeds but this does have to be the final time that we do this in regards to constant overhauls to fit coaches tactical preferences and should have our own way of playing so the coaches bend to the clubs Will rather than us bending to theirs.

Assuming we sign Quenda, both he and Dorgu are more than capable of playing as out and out wingers too. There really isn’t an issue adjusting to a different formation, should be ever need to. You guys need to stop getting so hung up on formation.

Quenda is actually currently playing as one of Sporting’s 10s in their system.

 

[Olecurls99]

If we could I'd love to see this 11 get 3 games before the season is out

Bayindir
Yoro De Ligt Heaven
Dalot Ugarte Bruno Dorgu
Amad Mount/Mainoo
Garnacho

 

[Eagle_eye]

Which midfielders would everyone go for to play in midfield two?

They have to be mobile, good on the ball and have great defensive instincts.

These types of players are few and far between if you ask me so I think we have a tough task filling those roles.

Ederson from Atalanta would be a dream signing.. Has all the characteristics you mention and already plays in a 3421 system. I think Wharton from Palace could work too.

 

[roseguy64]

Had to slip that little dig in eh? There's nothing that shows the players have no faith in the coach, if anything quite the opposite. Quite apparent that they are trying their hardest to carry out his instructions but either aren't good enough or fall into bad old habits (dwelling on the ball, checking back, shooting when they should pass).

Not a dig for dig's sake. He has to be held accountable too.

 

[roseguy64]

At least Jim seems to understand how bad the squad is.

He certainly doesn't see it as a top 6 squad available to Amorim like many here.

It's clearly not a top 6 squad right now with players loaned out and injured. I doubt you'll find anyone saying it is one at present. Most people would have said it was a European places squad at the start of the season though.

 

[roseguy64]

Me too. He’s the only one that’s actually showing some signs of what he actually wants to do and how he wants to play. It’s obviously not going to be pretty yet with these bunch of players but with a couple of transfers windows we’ll be miles better

You can't believe that surely?

What do you mean?

 

[roseguy64]

Good interview, necessary interview. I was wrong and many on here were right Jimmy Brexit, does see it like the fans. Players are shit, needs a big rebuild and he's going to fund it.

He called out the quality of the squad before now too. You were'nt paying attention.

 

[Insanity]

Which centre half do you think we can get that'll be a better player than Yoro?

Let me get my scouting manual out and then we can both go through it together to find that player.

 

[AndySmith1990]

It's going to be interesting to see the contradictions in peoples attitudes when in this thread they're saying Amorim must be backed, but then moaning in the Mainoo and Gernacho threads when Ineos sell them to fund this backing of the head coach.

 

[Olecurls99]

Let me get my scouting manual out and then we can both go through it together to find that player.

Remember, we're strapped for cash and things are so bad up the other end of the pitch we are mulling over playing a very raw 18 year old up front. Let's ditch the manual and sign some forwards eh?

 

[#07]

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

 

[Camilo]

We're overhauling to bring in a type of profile and better quality, not players who can only play 3421. Why don't you lot save your moaning until we sign a player that is no use beyond this manager? Until then it's an odd hypothetical to moan about.

I think it's a very fair thing to moan about. We're going to have to sell all our wide attackers (because we're skint) to find the rebuild, but when Amorim gets sacked, 95% of managers will want wide attackers.

Unless his 10s are just wide attackers.

 

[stevoc]

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

They are slightly concerning remarks to be fair. You could argue that they've decided to go down this path going forward with Amorim currently and then continue with it post Amorim. But that didn't seem to be the plan last summer so it does make one suspect that we are indeed still gollowing the Glazers/Woodward model of putting all our eggs in one basket, hiring a new manager with a different style and then allowing them to rip the squad up.

 

[Insanity]

Remember, we're strapped for cash and things are so bad up the other end of the pitch we are mulling over playing a very raw 18 year old up front. Let's ditch the manual and sign some forwards eh?

I didn't know it was an either/or situation. It is a money problem, not that we already have fast CCB's. Got it.

Let me put the manual back in the shelf.

 

[quadrant]

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

Only if you take the most binary approach possible and believe it's either 100% the club or 100% the manager who decides how we play. No club works like that, especially big clubs that approach the most sought after managers. What happens is that the club will narrow down a certain profile of manager that's compatible with the club and its squad, and then the manager will make whatever changes he wants to within that overall envelope.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Which midfielders would everyone go for to play in midfield two?

They have to be mobile, good on the ball and have great defensive instincts.

These types of players are few and far between if you ask me so I think we have a tough task filling those roles.

Main challenge why this 2 man midfield doesn't succeed in EPL. Give it 18 months, we will be here crying again about a new coach.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Only if you take the most binary approach possible and believe it's either 100% the club or 100% the manager who decides how we play. No club works like that, especially big clubs that approach the most sought after managers. What happens is that the club will narrow down a certain profile of manager that's compatible with the club and its squad, and then the manager will make whatever changes he wants to within that overall envelope.

But at United it absolutely has worked like that, we often seem to be at the mercy of agents touting their clients rather than proactive scouting. Ole and Mou all set their own styles and had big inputs on recruitment. The 'hierarchy' such as it was backed ETH 100% and he seemed to have total control over signings, something that was remarked upon with some astonishment by various pundits over the course of his tenure. No other top club has allowed a manager to buy so many of his former players or those who played against him in Dutch league. We now have gone back to allowing a CEO to choose a manager, who for all his CV is not a football person, over a football person (Ashworth). So we are absolutely now buying players to fit a rigid system manager. Its a joke, as is this club.

 

[#07]

Only if you take the most binary approach possible and believe it's either 100% the club or 100% the manager who decides how we play. No club works like that, especially big clubs that approach the most sought after managers. What happens is that the club will narrow down a certain profile of manager that's compatible with the club and its squad, and then the manager will make whatever changes he wants to within that overall envelope.

Amorim is not very compatible with the squad we have, nor with the way our academy is set up to produce talent. Either the powers that be have a pretty different view of compatible or plan for some massive changes that we just aren't seeing at youth level (despite INEOS being involved with the club for a year). Not very joined up in either case.

I find it plausible to believe Berrada went for Amorim in large part because he knew he was on City's shortlist, and no real thought went into how much work on our squad and wider system would be required to make it work. Whatever the case he says he's all in so lets see how it goes. He and Ashworth also gave a vote of confidence to Ten Hag before the Liverpool home game. Look how that ended up.

 

[romufc]

Amorim is not very compatible with the squad we have, nor with the way our academy is set up to produce talent. Either the powers that be have a pretty different view of compatible or plan for some massive changes that we just aren't seeing at youth level (despite INEOS being involved with the club for a year). Not very joined up in either case.

I find it plausible to believe Berrada went for Amorim in large part because he knew he was on City's shortlist, and no real thought went into how much work on our squad and wider system would be required to make it work. Whatever the case he says he's all in so lets see how it goes. He and Ashworth also gave a vote of confidence to Ten Hag before the Liverpool home game. Look how that ended up.

Yep, Ten Hag was very compatible with the squad too.. this squad is not compatible with playing at the highest level, nothing to do with Amorim or anyone else.

The City comment is just silly, they have identified a manager that they think will work. Obviously, you would know who is on the City shortlist, could you enlighten me, who else is on that City shortlist that you know so much about? When they have a manager who has just signed a new deal.

So what, did you want them to come out saying, they dont believe in the manager before a Liverpool game?

 

[Galactic]

Fh

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

The problem is we need to find the style that works first. Even if the club knows how they want the team to play, they first need to find a coach that can play it, successfully. I think Amorim is the first experiment.

IMO, a particular style is BS. There’s no one specific style. There’s formation or general style. Even that depends so much on the players we have, and the injury situation too.

People are reading too much into it.

 

[#07]

Yep, Ten Hag was very compatible with the squad too.. this squad is not compatible with playing at the highest level, nothing to do with Amorim or anyone else.

The City comment is just silly, they have identified a manager that they think will work. Obviously, you would know who is on the City shortlist, could you enlighten me, who else is on that City shortlist that you know so much about? When they have a manager who has just signed a new deal.

So what, did you want them to come out saying, they dont believe in the manager before a Liverpool game?

I don't but given Omar Berrada was employed in City's structure for a long time, I figure he had some idea. Similarly to how Peter Kenyon probably had a good view of United's interest in Essien and Robben when he went to Chelsea.

Squad compatibility is an admittedly broad concept. However, I think there are some coaches whose general approach would be an easier fit for the group we have than Amorim's. I think there are any number of coaches that could have taken over when we were 6 points off top four and made a better fist of it than he has. Its not like I want him to fail or enjoy us being rubbish but I'm not going to ignore that we haven't recorded back to back league wins since he took over.

As for Berrada's comments, if past behaviour is any indicator of future conduct, don't put too much stock in him publicly backing coaches.

 

[mctrials23]

Yeah that quote stood out to be too. Feels like we've once again gone back to "the coach decides how we play and the rest of the club follows along".

I get the impression that they are not saying that he dictates signings but that he will have a say in the sort of player he wants. i.e players that are technically, physically and mentally strong. I'm sure he will be telling them what positions are key and the sort of player he needs.

Our issue at United is as much about overpaying for average players as it is about having such a mish mash of types. We've been buying average athletes with average technical capabilities for years. You can see that Liverpool have been buying players of different profiles for years. The general core of their recruitment however says that any player that comes in has to be physically very capable and technically very capable. They don't have to be world beaters but they have to have the right mentality and the basics. You can see that arguably two of their most questionable signings for serious money that haven't been big hits don't have that technical quality. Gakpo and Nunez. Even then they have the other qualities and offer something different to the rest of the team.

We have too many slow, ponderous, indecisive and technically deficient players who don't have the right intensity for the league. Replace those players with the right kind and the manager won't matter quite so much.

 

[romufc]

I don't but given Omar Berrada was employed in City's structure for a long time, I figure he had some idea. Similarly to how Peter Kenyon probably had a good view of United's interest in Essien and Robben when he went to Chelsea.

Squad compatibility is an admittedly broad concept. However, I think there are some coaches whose general approach would be an easier fit for the group we have than Amorim's. I think there are any number of coaches that could have taken over when we were 6 points off top four and made a better fist of it than he has. Its not like I want him to fail or enjoy us being rubbish but I'm not going to ignore that we haven't recorded back to back league wins since he took over.

As for Berrada's comments, if past behaviour is any indicator of future conduct, don't put too much stock in him publicly backing coaches.

He would have if City were looking to replace Pep, are they replacing him? Pep has signed a new deal. Also.. if City wanted to get Amorim, they would have because their sporting director is from Sporting.

Its all assumptions that it would be an easier fit... No one can tell me that if we had a manager that played 4 at the back, Onana would make less mistakes, Hojlund would be a better ST. There is actually evidence under Ten Hag that most of the squad was rubbish under any system.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

For me, Amorim has come in and torn up the STYLE book and said we start from here

No more of Sir Alex's ideas hanging over the head like a sword.

We needed to tear up the playbook. Kick the players on their backside and get to work. We have seen players like Rashford fallen because they were too much in comfort zone

I hope this works ,,but this needed to be done to get a fresh start . Instant gratification is not coming soon. You have to be patient and hopefully we will get challenging soon. Till than take every week as it comes Except Europa we have nothing left to play for .

 

[Brand Nubian]

Sir Jim Ratcliffe on Amorim: "Yeah I do, honestly [believe he can succeed]. I really, really like Ruben. He’s a very thoughtful guy. "Every time I go to the training ground, I speak to Ruben. I sit down and have a cup of coffee with him and tell him where it’s going wrong, and he tells me to f**k off. I like him."

Ratcliffe will have watched waaay more games of football in his life than Amorim so its only right he´s trying to give young Ruben advice. Unfortunatelly this stubborn, dogmatic coach is not taking any footballing lessons from Jimmy or Brailsford on board.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

He would have if City were looking to replace Pep, are they replacing him? Pep has signed a new deal. Also.. if City wanted to get Amorim, they would have because their sporting director is from Sporting.

Its all assumptions that it would be an easier fit... No one can tell me that if we had a manager that played 4 at the back, Onana would make less mistakes, Hojlund would be a better ST. There is actually evidence under Ten Hag that most of the squad was rubbish under any system.

Our squad is really poor, that's for sure. But its better than 14th and minus 6 goal difference. ETH was a poor coach whose system didn't work in PL and so he was lost as to what to do. He was also allowed to hire his ex players, many of whom just werent suited to the PL. Its quite possible that Amorim is the same. He has no big league experience (Ashworth reportedly wanted a manager with PL experience). RVN got more joy in his spell with a more traditional approach, playing to strenght of squad. Playing 5 defenders and at least one DM means we will never score much. We also dont have players to create and then exploit the opportunities that Amorim's system requires. Its a mess. But a good manager should be able to get more without another complete rebuild....

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I get the impression that they are not saying that he dictates signings but that he will have a say in the sort of player he wants. i.e players that are technically, physically and mentally strong.

I can't imagine that previous managers wanted technically, physically, and mentally weak players. It's not like they were incompetent.

All players, even the best ones, have strengths and weaknesses in athleticism and technique. The challenge when signing them is figuring out which of those strengths you absolutely need and which of those weaknesses you can live with. That's where the risk of overly rigid systems comes from: they might require giving extra priority to certain strengths, at the expense of ignoring/accepting certain weaknesses.

 

[romufc]

Our squad is really poor, that's for sure. But its better than 14th and minus 6 goal difference. ETH was a poor coach whose system didn't work in PL and so he was lost as to what to do. He was also allowed to hire his ex players, many of whom just werent suited to the PL. Its quite possible that Amorim is the same. He has no big league experience (Ashworth reportedly wanted a manager with PL experience). RVN got more joy in his spell with a more traditional approach, playing to strenght of squad. Playing 5 defenders and at least one DM means we will never score much. We also dont have players to create and then exploit the opportunities that Amorim's system requires. Its a mess. But a good manager should be able to get more without another complete rebuild....

Ofcourse use the small 4 game sample for RVN... I would have thought fans have learnt their lessons. Ole had a bigger sample period when he was interim, got the job on that basis and we saw how good he was.

RVN has got the Leicester job and is probably going to get sacked, so telling me that he is a better coach, when he is probably sacked from his job, is not really comforting.

Its also possible Amorim wont be the same, its a complete different approach. Do you think another manager would get Hojlund to not fall over all the time? or if the manager played 4 at the back, Onana wont make mistakes?

 

[davidmichael]

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

Exactly what I’ve been saying since ETH was fired, I really like Amorim and really hope he’s successful at United BUT we’re yet again pinning all our hopes on a coach leading the way and being successful rather than implementing an actual structure to give continuity and a long term footballing identity that can be implemented from the academies up to the first team.

 

[The Firestarter]

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

They went to Amorim because he was considered the next best thing, not because his style matched the club's idea of how the team should play. Obviously Ashworth was against this and went through the door before he could arrange the photos on his desk.

 

[NLunited]

Which midfielders would everyone go for to play in midfield two?

They have to be mobile, good on the ball and have great defensive instincts.

These types of players are few and far between if you ask me so I think we have a tough task filling those roles.

Ugarte is one, Bruno is another. There are plenty of midfielders in the PL at smaller teams that are good enough: Wharton and Baleba for example. We can‘t afford them right now.

Our best bet is getting deals and developing from within. Collyer is doing well. There‘s questions about Mainoo‘s athleticism, but he is definitely good enough.

Bruno and Mainoo can also play at 10, but I don‘t agree with the idea that they aren‘t cm‘s.

 

[mctrials23]

I can't imagine that previous managers wanted technically, physically, and mentally weak players. It's not like they were incompetent.

All players, even the best ones, have strengths and weaknesses in athleticism and technique. The challenge when signing them is figuring out which of those strengths you absolutely need and which of those weaknesses you can live with. That's where the risk of overly rigid systems comes from: they might require giving extra priority to certain strengths, at the expense of ignoring/accepting certain weaknesses.

Of course they didn't but thats quite literally what good recruitment looks like. Working out what players will be able to make the move to the PL and its challenges. Why did we obsess over and buy Sancho when he had well known behavioural issues? Why did we give him and Rashford insane contracts when they clearly both had behavioural and attitude issues? Why did we pay £70m for Casemiro at his age when he was never that energetic and would be coming into a much harder league and be surrounded by weaker players and harder opposition?

Our recruitment has been completely incompetent for years. We sign players with massive issues or who are simply not good enough and then they devolve due to the crap standards we set in the team and the poor behaviour/application we tolerate.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's funny to hear the owner name check the shite players who every clued in fan can see are the millstones on the clubs neck. Not just the obvious ones like Sancho and Antony but also Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. Only one spared was Mount.

Probably not the greatest thing for squad harmony if the owner of the club is confirming you're not wanted.

I love how fans hear what they want to hear. He literally just listed pre Ineos purchases who the club was still paying for (and he did bring up Mount as well in the bit about players available to Amorim).