Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

I tell you one thing, regardless of Amorim or any manager taking over, it will be new players making us win matches on a regular basis again. Make no mistake about that.

But Ruud won more back to back games with the same players in just 4 fixtures which is a feat Amorim has not achieved in 21.

Better players undoubtedly improves a teams consistency, but what many aren't measuring is the influence of an underperforming manager.
 
Fair enough.
I would though. With the knowledge gap, a team that was already struggling terribly in a formation it was bought to operate I . Plus inherited goal scoring issues. It was always going to be a tough ask for an entire 360 degree change in football tactics and direction to lift the club without significant recruitment in Jan. Which was impossible to do. There is zero doubt in my mind too many fans are asking for way too much way too soon.....

The formation under ETH wasn't the reason we struggled though it was the batshit style of play and a complete lack of midfield or structure that Ten Hag was determined to keep employing despite all evidence for the best part of 18 months telling him it would never work. With the same formation but a more sensible set-up I reckon this squad would have did a lot better in the league during Erik's last 18 months.


I believe they absolutely are. The team was not only struggling when Amorim took over. It has had a chasm of knowledge gap to over come, with constant injury robbing it of key personnel at wrong momments with no significant reinforcement in January. Whilst losing the likes of Rashford. With minimal time on the traininng ground to repair it.

I don't disagree with your overall asessment but it comes back round to the theory that Amorim was probably being a bit naive trying to implement his system mid-season, with a struggling team in a league he's never played or managed in. I get the thinking behind him wanting to go with 352 straight away but as he himself has said so often many of the poor performances/results have been down to a lack of time on the training pitch to work on it. Which we were never going to get with the hectic schedule. Maybe privately he's thinking he should have waited until the summer and Pre-Season, he possibly didn't imagine it would be quite this bad.
 
Name the only Portuguese manager other than Jose that’s won the EPL, Eddie Howe is more likely to win the EPL with Bournemouth or Palace than Amorim is with United?

No idea what point you’re trying to make.
 
By the way, this is what prioritising the Europa League looks like. It’s horrible, but look at the bigger picture.
 
What on earth can any manager do about some of the goals conceded yesterday - Dalot being breezed past, Maz slipping and giving the ball away, Altay having a shocker.

I’m firmly behind Ruben until he shows us what he can do with some backing in a transfer window. I see improvement in how we play as a whole but these individual mistakes have plagued us since ETH.

A good manager knows what to do to improve his players. What did Moyes do and Everton is not as bad as it was before?
 
Did some research, so here’s a stat: since United won at the Etihad on 15th December 2024, they have beaten only one PL team from outside the relegation zone in 16 attempts. Only other wins vs PL opposition in that time were versus Ipswich, Soton and Leicester (x2).

Fulham?

That's grim however you want to look at it. No one will convince me 6 wins out of 20, 4 of them against the 3 worst teams in the league is the best we could have hoped for.

I'm still of the opinion he needs time but he has to get this team firing quickly early into next season, more of the same and the club will pull the trigger by October.
 
No, this is nonsense only spouted by united fans. We have said this for every single manager and they’ve all gone shit. None of the, have improved with time and money and chances.

He has not even steadied the ship, he has been a complete and utter failure in every aspect. He deserves to be judged and sacked.
Nonsense? No mate, nonsense is expecting wine from water.

Changing managers as often as changing socks will just repeat the mistakes...time to back him, not sack him.
What on earth can any manager do about some of the goals conceded yesterday - Dalot being breezed past, Maz slipping and giving the ball away, Altay having a shocker.

I’m firmly behind Ruben until he shows us what he can do with some backing in a transfer window. I see improvement in how we play as a whole but these individual mistakes have plagued us since ETH.
Nailed it.


I understand the frustration but yesterday was always going to be difficult. The list of players who took part for United just shows how it was just a fixture to get through before the big game on Thursday. Yes, there should have been more pride and effort shown but realistically, against a decent Newcastle team with an emotional charge under them, that was never going to be a stroll.

PL debutants, teenagers, long term injury returnees...Bayindir, Amass, Lindelof, Eriksen, Mount, Hojlund, Shaw, Mainoo...they have barely played or, in the case of Hojlund, might as well not have bothered, for a long time now so having them on the pitch was clearly saving the legs of others for a far more important match. The injury to Zirkzee was a blow...especially with so little in the way of alternatives available...and shame on those thousands of Geordie fans for cheering his misfortune. I hope they have to wait just as long for their next trophy, scumbags.
 
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By the way, this is what prioritising the Europa League looks like. It’s horrible, but look at the bigger picture.
So now you want to suggest that he was prioritising the Europa league from the day he joined even though we were only 4 points off top 4? Come on :lol::lol::lol:
 
Our defence has been more solid actually. Wouldn’t say that about yesterday and game vs Lyon but in plenty of games before that it was more solid. That’s at least clear from watching our games.
Don't be cheated about our defence. We are soo poor.
Genuine progress will be backed results. Not through opinions or ideas or its clear to see arguments.

Amorim took over when we were 4 points behind 4th place.
Now we are 3 points above 17 Place. But magically we are improving.


  • Manchester United have gone 1-0 down in 19 Premier League games this season with only Leicester (27), Southampton (21) and Wolves (20) doing so more often.
  • It’s also the joint most games the Red Devils have conceded first in in a single Premier League campaign alongside 2013-14.
  • Since Ruben Amorim's first game in charge, only Southampton (59), Tottenham (53) and Leicester (53) have shipped more goals in all competitions than Manchester United (48) among Premier League clubs.
 
By the way, this is what prioritising the Europa League looks like. It’s horrible, but look at the bigger picture.
You say that but the majority of the player that played yesterday are playing on Thursday. It's not like he rested main stay players, probably wishes he did after the Zirkzee injury.
 
Fulham?

That's grim however you want to look at it. No one will convince me 6 wins out of 20, 4 of them against the 3 worst teams in the league is the best we could have hoped for.

I'm still of the opinion he needs time but he has to get this team firing quickly early into next season, more of the same and the club will pull the trigger by October.
Yep. This is my stance.
By the way, this is what prioritising the Europa League looks like. It’s horrible, but look at the bigger picture.
This is where I become conflicted. This squad is good enough (despite what everyone says) to finish in the top 8 (earning some form of European qualification) and get to say the last 4 of the Europa League at least.

For all his millions of faults, Ten Hag was able to beat Liverpool and city to win the FA Cup whilst also picking up a few wins in the Premier League. Whilst that was clearly not good enough, that should have been the minimum expectation for Amorim.

I'm not having that the squad isn't good enough to pick a few more points against Ipswich, Wolves and Spurs away whilst maybe picking up even 3 more points combined in home matches against the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace and Forest.
 
So now you want to suggest that he was prioritising the Europa league from the day he joined even though we were only 4 points off top 4? Come on :lol::lol::lol:
No, but circumstances have changed as the season has progressed. Nobody’s goal was to achieve this rubbish, but you’d take 17th and a europa league win.

Not that either of those things are likely to happen now.
 
But Ruud won more back to back games with the same players in just 4 fixtures which is a feat Amorim has not achieved in 21.

Better players undoubtedly improves a teams consistency, but what many aren't measuring is the influence of an underperforming manager.

You’re getting your stats mixed up and it’s incorrect anyway, we won 3 in a row under Amorim in January.

We haven’t won 2 league games in a row all season, and Ruud had the lucky run of Leicester, PAOK then Leicester again.
 
I tell you one thing, regardless of Amorim or any manager taking over, it will be new players making us win matches on a regular basis again. Make no mistake about that.
We won 15 home games with ETH.
We went away unbeaten by Ole.

We used to win game regularly.

Amorim has not won 2 consecutive league games since November. You dont new players to win 2 consecutive league games.

Yesterday was second game we scored in first half since 1 December 2024. You don't need new players to score in first half.

Our win since Etihad, we have beaten bottom half teams except Fulham.
 
I think he was saving Maguire and Casa for Thursday. On the other hand Mainoo, Shaw and Mount aren't ready to start any matches.
Yeah maybe on reflection, with the importance of Thursday, I can get it. But needed a vent into the vacuum after yesterday, seeing them still play for us. They are so pathetically short of the required standard, especially from a physical PoV, that it just gets tiring and you immediately surrender much of the game. Tiring.
 
You have literally nothing to go on but blind faith. If he can't even improve results and performances with what he's got, then how will getting him a whole new squad be any guarantee of success?

You've got some language in there that I feel really misunderstands the arguments that I and other 'have patience' posters are making.

Firstly there's no guarantees anywhere in football or in life. We look at the options available and believe having patience for now is our best chance of success. If you disagree with that, please by all means tell me which coach comes into this team now and guarantees us success.

But also the idea that we're operating on blind faith - well that's rubbish isn't it. This isn't some guy off the street, he's one of the most promising young coaches in Europe, having performed wonders at Sporting, whilst completely rebuilding the team and displaying attributes that should be attractive to us. I don't trust he'll succeed, I don't have blind faith - I instead recognize he has many qualities which should give him the tools to take a good group of players and turn them into a great team.

Here's how you need to be looking at this - there's two elements to a successful Manchester United team - talent on the pitch, and a coach who can coach and organize them into being effective.

Do we have the coach who can do that here? Maybe. Not yes, because he hasn't demonstrated up until now he can handle the job, but not no because of the wealth of mitigating factors he has had to deal with.

Do we have the requisite talent on the pitch. 100% no, absolutely not. We all know this. A decade plus change of dogshit recruitment has left us with the worst Manchester United team in my lifetime. The team was dogshit under Ten Hag, and he and Murtough made it worse, whilst time has further aged a number of players who were creaking 2 years ago. We all know the team needs to drastically change over the summer.

So you've got 2 areas that need to be decided - 1 - replacing a team that is known to be not good enough, and 2 - determining whether this coach is good enough to lead us forward.

How about we just take care of number 1 first?

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Now before you come back to me and say "what if we buy more players for a manager and then fire him and then we're stuck with those players for the next manager who doesn't want them" - which players would that be? Keeping in mind this is a new recruitment team, and we're now prioritizing signing young players on low wages with plenty of resale value. Would it be pacy wingbacks who can double as wingers? Easy to sell on. Would it be hard working and technically strong 10s and CMs? Easy to sell on. Would it be a good striker? I'll let you take that one.

If you don't trust the new recruitment team to be able to do that - fair enough, they're also unproven (if showing promising signs). But again that's not on Amorim, and if they can't solve the big flashing number 1 problem of replacing the team, then it doesn't fecking matter who the coach is. No coach in the world is winning the league with shit players.

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Watching the game yesterday I saw a tired team that lacks physicality and made up of players, many of them too old or who won't be here next year, get bullied into mistakes by a team that has been honed and added to smartly over a number of years. And that was also rested. And high on confidence. And yet despite that we looked good in the first half. I'm not saying give Amorim the time Howe has gotten. But surely you can allow him a little more grace than this?
 
You have literally nothing to go on but blind faith. If he can't even improve results and performances with what he's got, then how will getting him a whole new squad be any guarantee of success?

There are no guarantees in football pal. Young manager, new league, a club in the gutter and the brain dead morons that run the club choosing to parachute him into a squad that pretty clearly doesn't fit his play style. It hasn't gone as I hoped it would so far, but it's absolutely gone as I expected.
 
One thing that struck me between the two clubs is that Howe took a struggling Newcastle and almost made an immediate improvement, turning them from also rans into a serious side with realistic aspirations of silverware - granted he was given a lot of money but it still was used wisely. Contrast that to us, we seem to be in freefall right now only amplifying the problems that got Ten Hag sacked.
Running Newcastle vs the behemoth that is Manchester United is apples and oranges. The clubs are entirely different in scope and expectations. And now, the media won't talk about this, but they're also extremely wealthly, a lot more than us. In addition to this, they're a few years into Eddie Howe's reign. He has had the opportunity to build the side in his vision without the expectations of an enormous club. It has been this way for years now, but the United job is by miles the hardest in football.

In short, it's unfair to compare the two due to all of these factors.
 
Dorgu was fecking shit and Amass was doing fine. He made a bit of a mess of one of their goals but overall he can be proud of himself. The team was all over the place 2nd half and for me it's not a coincidence, Dorgu wasn't focused at all.

That's just nonsense really, and definitely isn't borne out by the facts.

I'm not saying Dorgu was spectacular or anything, but he passed better and more accurately, and had more defensive actions, despite being on the pitch for just over half the time. If he was as bad as you say, it shows how unready Amass is.

The really frustrating thing is that Shaw, looked miles ahead of both of them, despite being on the pitch for 12 minutes. In an ideal world, Dorgu would be playing backup to a fit and starting Shaw.
 
Then why did we offer him the job and why did he accept it??

Makes no sense.

We have to give him 3 years at least. We are not making any progress by sacking him and his staff at presumably great expense and hiring someone else less than a year after we make a big splash to hire one of the best young coaches in Europe.

Honestly mate I give up with so many of our so called fans. This idea that someone comes in mid season taking over a behemoth like united and with no attacking players to work with and then has us playing sexy winning football in the space of 6 months is juvenile and unrealistic.
 
Based on what? We looked crap last year, we're now using a different system which admittedly doesn't suit everyone, with a group that has plenty of players who are even older and who are simply not good enough, and never have been.

We finished 8th last year and won the FA Cup despite being ravaged by injuries all season and having no back 4.
 
He’s been terrible, 10 defeats in the league in 21 games, we finished 8th and won the fa cup last season and everyone wanted the manager out for underperforming , this guy has us finishing near the relegation zone with a better squad than last year and there’s excuses to why it’s impossible for him to do better.
We’ll be fighting relegation next year as he seems to average about 1 point a game.
 
What on earth can any manager do about some of the goals conceded yesterday - Dalot being breezed past, Maz slipping and giving the ball away, Altay having a shocker.

I’m firmly behind Ruben until he shows us what he can do with some backing in a transfer window. I see improvement in how we play as a whole but these individual mistakes have plagued us since ETH.
You are making it look like we weren't completely dominated in every single turn on that pitch. The goals were going to come one way or another, Newcastle completely strangled us.
 
Very difficult to argue against it being another wrong decision to go with him mid-season at the moment. There is very little that has gone well.
 
The only thing these players can do is sit back and play on the break because they don't have to cover as much ground and our forwards are quick.

Amorim might end up getting sacked, in fact he will if these results continue into next season I'm sure, but it'll be a struggle for any manager trying to do anything else until we sort the squad out.
 
Rather its because football is a "copy cats game" most coaches reach for low hanging fruit. That is why most teams are not successful. That is why the vast majority of mediocre teams aren't back 3 formation teams. For anyone to think formation most used "is best" is just classic fallacious reasoning. It should be rather apparent that the fact that a handful of folks going against the grain have had spectacular success as compared to everyone "copying the norm". Should be proof positive it can actually work if attempted properly.


There is literally nothing "clutching " about stating the fact 3-4-3 is the ONLY formation to beat Klopp and Pep to the EPL title in the same season. In over a decade.

Chelsea also won the ucl with the formation in a season they had struggled domestically before the switch occured. So much for it "not working at elite level". As for folks who pilloried it as " defensive". Tuchel has never been known to be an overtly offensive coach. So nothing to see there.

Ah so 3-4-3 is the intellectuals formation then
 
You've got some language in there that I feel really misunderstands the arguments that I and other 'have patience' posters are making.

Firstly there's no guarantees anywhere in football or in life. We look at the options available and believe having patience for now is our best chance of success. If you disagree with that, please by all means tell me which coach comes into this team now and guarantees us success.

But also the idea that we're operating on blind faith - well that's rubbish isn't it. This isn't some guy off the street, he's one of the most promising young coaches in Europe, having performed wonders at Sporting, whilst completely rebuilding the team and displaying attributes that should be attractive to us. I don't trust he'll succeed, I don't have blind faith - I instead recognize he has many qualities which should give him the tools to take a good group of players and turn them into a great team.

Here's how you need to be looking at this - there's two elements to a successful Manchester United team - talent on the pitch, and a coach who can coach and organize them into being effective.

Do we have the coach who can do that here? Maybe. Not yes, because he hasn't demonstrated up until now he can handle the job, but not no because of the wealth of mitigating factors he has had to deal with.

Do we have the requisite talent on the pitch. 100% no, absolutely not. We all know this. A decade plus change of dogshit recruitment has left us with the worst Manchester United team in my lifetime. The team was dogshit under Ten Hag, and he and Murtough made it worse, whilst time has further aged a number of players who were creaking 2 years ago. We all know the team needs to drastically change over the summer.

So you've got 2 areas that need to be decided - 1 - replacing a team that is known to be not good enough, and 2 - determining whether this coach is good enough to lead us forward.

How about we just take care of number 1 first?

--------

Now before you come back to me and say "what if we buy more players for a manager and then fire him and then we're stuck with those players for the next manager who doesn't want them" - which players would that be? Keeping in mind this is a new recruitment team, and we're now prioritizing signing young players on low wages with plenty of resale value. Would it be pacy wingbacks who can double as wingers? Easy to sell on. Would it be hard working and technically strong 10s and CMs? Easy to sell on. Would it be a good striker? I'll let you take that one.

If you don't trust the new recruitment team to be able to do that - fair enough, they're also unproven (if showing promising signs). But again that's not on Amorim, and if they can't solve the big flashing number 1 problem of replacing the team, then it doesn't fecking matter who the coach is. No coach in the world is winning the league with shit players.

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Watching the game yesterday I saw a tired team that lacks physicality and made up of players, many of them too old or who won't be here next year, get bullied into mistakes by a team that has been honed and added to smartly over a number of years. And that was also rested. And high on confidence. And yet despite that we looked good in the first half. I'm not saying give Amorim the time Howe has gotten. But surely you can allow him a little more grace than this?

This is an excellent post. A lot of similar sentiments were expressed when ETH was in charge, that changing the manager was the solution to all of our problems.

Unfortunately we have a squad full of unathletic players who aren't particularly good at football either, with a few notable exceptions that have been run into the ground or injured. There isn't a manager on the planet that's going to do much with such a poorly assembled squad, so even if Amorim ends up not being the man to take us forward (which is entirely possible), we're a few transfer windows away from having the kind of squad that can achieve success, no matter who the manager is.
 
Very difficult to argue against it being another wrong decision to go with him mid-season at the moment. There is very little that has gone well.
Flip side - we’ve dodged a bullet. On current evidence he’s nowhere near the level needed. I like him, he seems a good dude but that’s factually true right now. If he doesn’t win Europa or the league form picks up seemingly miraculously, Ineos would be mad to not bring someone else in. We need a builder, someone who will put a high press in place and plays more front foot/attacking football.

This latter part I think is what is killing Amorim. If we were super offensive, think Bielsa’s Leeds, scoring goals but ultimately picking up the same poor points total - there’d be so much more positivity and buzz. As it stands we are mostly dull to watch, it’s ok to be shit and exciting but to be shit and boring is what makes it so hard.

Pray for Europa.
 
There are no guarantees in football pal. Young manager, new league, a club in the gutter and the brain dead morons that run the club choosing to parachute him into a squad that pretty clearly doesn't fit his play style. It hasn't gone as I hoped it would so far, but it's absolutely gone as I expected.

Amorim would have known which players and squad he was taking over. He would have also been made aware there won't be significant changes to this squad for at least another two years.
 
Flip side - we’ve dodged a bullet. On current evidence he’s nowhere near the level needed. I like him, he seems a good dude but that’s factually true right now. If he doesn’t win Europa or the league form picks up seemingly miraculously, Ineos would be mad to not bring someone else in. We need a builder, someone who will put a high press in place and plays more front foot/attacking football.

This latter part I think is what is killing Amorim. If we were super offensive, think Bielsa’s Leeds, scoring goals but ultimately picking up the same poor points total - there’d be so much more positivity and buzz. As it stands we are mostly dull to watch, it’s ok to be shit and exciting but to be shit and boring is what makes it so hard.

Pray for Europa.
We've seen suicidal football with Ten Hag's one man midfield setup. That doesn't work either when you have forwards who can't consistently make the right decisions or find the net.
 
Flip side - we’ve dodged a bullet. On current evidence he’s nowhere near the level needed. I like him, he seems a good dude but that’s factually true right now. If he doesn’t win Europa or the league form picks up seemingly miraculously, Ineos would be mad to not bring someone else in. We need a builder, someone who will put a high press in place and plays more front foot/attacking football.

This latter part I think is what is killing Amorim. If we were super offensive, think Bielsa’s Leeds, scoring goals but ultimately picking up the same poor points total - there’d be so much more positivity and buzz. As it stands we are mostly dull to watch, it’s ok to be shit and exciting but to be shit and boring is what makes it so hard.

Pray for Europa.
All of what you said is possible. My point was more around how the higher-ups at the club have seemingly made another error in either the timing of the appointment, or the person that they appointed. For United to get back to where they need to be, we need the higher-ups to start getting a lot of sporting decisions correct. This one seems to have only set us back further as things stand.

Can't help but feel that the current manager will find it even harder to turn it around after what he and the club have had to endure this season.
 
So many players need to go. A full reset is needed. Until that happens, it's pointless talking about sacking Amorim.

Lindelof, Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho (imo), Zirkzee, Maguire, Dalot, Erikssen, Casemiro, Hojlund all need to be moved on and replaced but doing so will take 2 years. Hence my assertion that Amorim should be given at least 3 years.

It seems like we all forgot about how Ferguson started and how he nearly got the sack, but in time, created the greatest United dynasty ever. Things don't happen overnight in football other than perhaps bringing in a manager to stave off relegation in the last 2 or 3 months of a season and luckily, we are not in that position.
 
We've seen suicidal football with Ten Hag's one man midfield setup. That doesn't work either when you have forwards who can't consistently make the right decisions or find the net.
Yeah I’m not sure anyone is holding ETH’s style out as what we’re missing? What kept him in the job was trophies not style.
 
Flip side - we’ve dodged a bullet. On current evidence he’s nowhere near the level needed. I like him, he seems a good dude but that’s factually true right now. If he doesn’t win Europa or the league form picks up seemingly miraculously, Ineos would be mad to not bring someone else in. We need a builder, someone who will put a high press in place and plays more front foot/attacking football.

This latter part I think is what is killing Amorim. If we were super offensive, think Bielsa’s Leeds, scoring goals but ultimately picking up the same poor points total - there’d be so much more positivity and buzz. As it stands we are mostly dull to watch, it’s ok to be shit and exciting but to be shit and boring is what makes it so hard.

Pray for Europa.

You want us to play attacking football with a strike force of Hojlund, Garnacho and Zirkzee? Sometimes I wonder what people are actually watching on the pitch.

They have 10 goals between them all season which combined isn’t even in the top 15 goal scorers this season.

Our top 2 goal scorers this season are currently Bruno, playing as a CM, and Amad who is injured.

We are not a very good side.
 
Yeah I’m not sure anyone is holding ETH’s style out as what we’re missing? What kept him in the job was trophies not style.
With that shape, pushing so many players into the attack and constantly leaving the midfield light and the defense exposed - he was trying to play the kind of "Bielsa" football you're talking about.

You don't see any benefits when you don't have the attackers to make it work.
 
He's trying to work with ETH's mess of relying on mega generational talent of Hojlund for goals.