Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[stevoc]

Then why did we offer him the job and why did he accept it??

Makes no sense.

There is zero chance the club thought Amorim wouldn't improve performances/results at least marginally. Otherwise they would have just kept Ten Hag on until the summer if they'd already written the season off and let Amorim take over in the summer which was his preference.

We have to give him 3 years at least. We are not making any progress by sacking him and his staff at presumably great expense and hiring someone else less than a year after we make a big splash to hire one of the best young coaches in Europe.

You can't just give a manager an arbitrary number of years and hope for the best, otherwise we should have kept Ten Hag on until june to see how his project would have turned out after 3 years.

I'm all for giving Ruben more time but there has to be progress season on season, next season barring an injury apocolypse or some other unprecedented event. Amorim has to have this team putting in better performances and results than this season. Another 6-12 months of winning only 1 in 5 games will likely see him losing his job. There would be nothing to be gained from allowing that form to continue until a pre-decided set date in the hope things will suddenly click and dramatically turn around. He'll get this season for free to bed in but I suspect after a pre-season and a transfer window the club will expect tangible progress in the league next year.

 

[Scholeskjær]

Flip side - we’ve dodged a bullet. On current evidence he’s nowhere near the level needed. I like him, he seems a good dude but that’s factually true right now. If he doesn’t win Europa or the league form picks up seemingly miraculously, Ineos would be mad to not bring someone else in. We need a builder, someone who will put a high press in place and plays more front foot/attacking football.

This latter part I think is what is killing Amorim. If we were super offensive, think Bielsa’s Leeds, scoring goals but ultimately picking up the same poor points total - there’d be so much more positivity and buzz. As it stands we are mostly dull to watch, it’s ok to be shit and exciting but to be shit and boring is what makes it so hard.

Pray for Europa.

Couldn't agree more on the attacking part. It's a lot easier to shore up a defence than to make a team who don't score score with regularity.

When klopp was starting at Liverpool people were critical that they were still getting attacking players before sorting defense but the club recognised the importance of goals first.

Fergies later teams had pretty mediocre players in midfield and defence at times, but he never skimped on strikers (or keepers for that matter).

It also takes so much pressure off the defenders, We've had what, 2 half time leads this season? Maybe it's a bit more can't find the stat now, but the low scoring means any defensive lapse is now so damaging because we don't have a way back. If we're not at the least creating a lot of chances by Christmas I'd start to worry.

 

[Marwood]

Yes. Ten Hag was shit and should have been sacked a year earlier.

So when saying it's the worst it's been since Fergie it seems important to also mention that was already the case when Amorim took over. Otherwise it sounds like it's purely down to Amorim

That situation was already in place when he joined. He didn't take a top 6 team and suddenly have us down around 13th.

What we can say is overall we haven't improved since ETH left and Amorim joined.

 

[tomaldinho1]

All of what you said is possible. My point was more around how the higher-ups at the club have seemingly made another error in either the timing of the appointment, or the person that they appointed. For United to get back to where they need to be, we need the higher-ups to start getting a lot of sporting decisions correct. This one seems to have only set us back further as things stand.

Can't help but feel that the current manager will find it even harder to turn it around after what he and the club have had to endure this season.

I agree. I think there’s a certain acceptance now in us being losers (you can see it in here for example) and I have no doubt, assuming everyone agrees that football is a game of fine margins, having taken so many beatings without any real repercussions will affect the dressing room. Confidence is massive in football, especially with young players, and we have almost nothing left in the tank.

Yet, re timing - no one forced Amorim to join, it’s not like he wasn’t looking for a while (Pool and West Ham). Do I have sympathy for someone getting paid £6.5m a year? Not really. Do I think he was stupid to join mid season knowing with hindsight that he is the single most tactically strict manager I think I’ve seen, probably yes.

To be honest it seems he’s getting a pre season and some signings no matter what, I wonder if this was even in his contract (in which case I think he was smart to move mid season) given how chilled he seems with how bad we’ve been. So we will see if he can really build something.

 

[tomaldinho1]

You want us to play attacking football with a strike force of Hojlund, Garnacho and Zirkzee? Sometimes I wonder what people are actually watching on the pitch.

They have 10 goals between them all season which combined isn’t even in the top 15 goal scorers this season.

Our top 2 goal scorers this season are currently Bruno, playing as a CM, and Amad who is injured.

We are not a very good side.

I guess you started watching us this season, let me explain. The PL is an annual contest, running from late summer to early summer every year.

These same 3 players you mentioned, one joined us in the summer but two were here last season. Reckon it would be logical to use that as part of the analysis?

 

[Marwood]

What on earth can any manager do about some of the goals conceded yesterday - Dalot being breezed past, Maz slipping and giving the ball away, Altay having a shocker.

I’m firmly behind Ruben until he shows us what he can do with some backing in a transfer window. I see improvement in how we play as a whole but these individual mistakes have plagued us since ETH.

He can get the team higher up the pitch. That's the one big thing he has some control over. Can only conclude being so deep is his decision.

If you're constantly recycling the ball in your own third mistakes will happen and get heavily punished.

 

[NLunited]

Exactly. Do people really think that another manager would do better with these awful players at his disposal?

I don‘t know man. A worse squad than this won FA cup last year and finished eighth.

Seems like Ten Hag did a lot better with a worse squad last season, yet our troubles right now are because of Ten Hag. Not solid logic.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Our main problem is still that the vast majority of our players are simply not fit for purpose, when it comes to playing in the Premier League. With a handful of exceptions (Bruno, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Ugarte) the players either lack the physical capabilities or game intelligence to be effective in this league (or they lack both).

Amorim may not be it, but keeping ETH or picking another manager after his sacking would not have us much higher in the table, if at all. It's dire to watch right now, but that is down to our squad building over the last 3-4 years more than anything else.

 

[Frank Grimes]

What exactly is his points total per game in the league? Feels like we are averaging not much better than a point a game.

Edit: Just checked, 21 points from 21 games. Horrific.

 

[tomaldinho1]

With that shape, pushing so many players into the attack and constantly leaving the midfield light and the defense exposed - he was trying to play the kind of "Bielsa" football you're talking about.

You don't see any benefits when you don't have the attackers to make it work.

I guess if we are super super high level and ignore context.

Bielsa knows that style inside out. He’s about as fanatically offensive as you can realistically be.

ETH basically tried to create something he’d not done before (I assume because he thought it was the best way to create chances) which is likely why it looked so random.

 

[RedRocket9908]

I don‘t know man. A worse squad than this won FA cup last year and finished eighth.

Seems like Ten Hag did a lot better with a worse squad last season, yet our troubles right now are because of Ten Hag. Not solid logic.

This squad is certainly better than what we are seeing at the moment and there are other manager's out there that would have gotten them to win more than 6 of the last 21 matches and not had them getting outplayed at home for 80+ minutes by the worst Southampton side ever.

 

[Abizzz]

Starting to lose confidence that things will improve once he has had more of a say in the players available.

What could he do between now and the end of the season to improve everyone's belief in him? (aside from the obvious winning EL, more league games).

 

[Dans]

I agree. I think there’s a certain acceptance now in us being losers (you can see it in here for example) and I have no doubt, assuming everyone agrees that football is a game of fine margins, having taken so many beatings without any real repercussions will affect the dressing room. Confidence is massive in football, especially with young players, and we have almost nothing left in the tank.

Yet, re timing - no one forced Amorim to join, it’s not like he wasn’t looking for a while (Pool and West Ham). Do I have sympathy for someone getting paid £6.5m a year? Not really. Do I think he was stupid to join mid season knowing with hindsight that he is the single most tactically strict manager I think I’ve seen, probably yes.

To be honest it seems he’s getting a pre season and some signings no matter what, I wonder if this was even in his contract (in which case I think he was smart to move mid season) given how chilled he seems with how bad we’ve been. So we will see if he can really build something.

I remember that he joined us mid season at the insistence of United who said he wouldn't be offered the chance again if he didn't join immediately.

 

[stepic]

I guess you started watching us this season, let me explain. The PL is an annual contest, running from late summer to early summer every year.

These same 3 players you mentioned, one joined us in the summer but two were here last season. Reckon it would be logical to use that as part of the analysis?

Wait, you think Hojlund and Garnacho are actually quality players and their inability to put a ball between two sticks is all down to the manager you conveniently don’t like

The excuses you lot give to bad players just in order to blame the manager is frankly incredible. The only people who think Hojlund is actually a good striker are the ones against the manager. Convenient huh?

 

[V.O.]

I guess if we are super super high level and ignore context.

Bielsa knows that style inside out. He’s about as fanatically offensive as you can realistically be.

ETH basically tried to create something he’d not done before (I assume because he thought it was the best way to create chances) which is likely why it looked so random.

There's really just no way to play high octane attacking football and score a load of goals with the players we have in forward positions right now. There's no magic manager that can come in and make that happen.

Anybody who comes in would need signings to make our attack look better.

 

[NLunited]

There have been good games under Amorim against good sides. We know this squad can be a lot better than they have shown.

I‘m inclined to let Amorim battle on, until he runs out of rope or until he starts winning.

The argument that the squad is terrible is only partly true. We have some underperformers, but the squad is good enough for 4th-8th place.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I remember that he joined us mid season at the insistence of United who said he wouldn't be offered the chance again if he didn't join immediately.

Sure but would they really have not let him sign a contract back then for a summer start and just put an interim in? If they believe in him that much they’d have waited.

 

[stepic]

There have been good games under Amorim against good sides. We know this squad can be a lot better than they have shown.

I‘m inclined to let Amorim battle on, until he runs out of rope or until he starts winning.

The argument that the squad is terrible is only partly true. We have some underperformers, but the squad is good enough for 4th-8th place.

This thread just keeps on giving, honestly

 

[tomaldinho1]

Wait, you think Hojlund and Garnacho are actually quality players and their inability to put a ball between two sticks is all down to the manager you conveniently don’t like

The excuses you lot give to bad players just in order to blame the manager is frankly incredible. The only people who think Hojlund is actually a good striker are the ones against the manager. Convenient huh?

I think I’ve seen two seasons back to back where those two players, specifically, have looked very different. Is either great, no, but were they both much better in a different setup, yes.

I like Amorim I just think the results are woeful. Where’s the disagreement?

 

[SilentWitness]

There's really just no way to play high octane attacking football and score a load of goals with the players we have in forward positions right now. There's no magic manager that can come in and make that happen.

Anybody who comes in would need signings to make our attack look better.

Yeah, I think this a point that some people aren't getting. It doesn't matter who your manager is next season, you need to recruit better. It's a squad needing major surgery no matter who is in charge.

 

[Shinjch]

There's really just no way to play high octane attacking football and score a load of goals with the players we have in forward positions right now. There's no magic manager that can come in and make that happen.

Anybody who comes in would need signings to make our attack look better.

We did still seem to create more chances for the first period of the season than we do now. More chances for profligate attackers, should get mean goals than making less chances for them. Can see the logic in it. Sadly, it meant we just missed a lot more before inevitably crumbling one way or another.

 

[Dans]

Sure but would they really have not let him sign a contract back then for a summer start and just put an interim in? If they believe in him that much they’d have waited.

We had RVN. They chose not to.

 

[croadyman]

If he goes out on Thursday I'm not sure where my head will be at. We sit 3 points from being the fourth from bottom side. He's coached us the majority of the season and if there was a capable side in that bottom three we'd be going down.

Yeah we are lucky those three got cut adrift and let's be honest so are Spurs as well. I do worry about him if we crash out on Thursday

 

[HTG]

Yeah, I think this a point that some people aren't getting. It doesn't matter who your manager is next season, you need to recruit better. It's a squad needing major surgery no matter who is in charge.

There’s truth to it. But there are alternative ways to play other than high octane football. And that’s what I find so irritating. I absolutely see that the squad doesn’t fit into Amorim‘s ideas. What I don’t get, is why he insists on those ideas despite the squad. I think there must be a middle ground where Amorim sets the team up in a way that can evolve further into what he wants, without playing in a way that actually accentuates the squads weaknesses. That’s what I would want to see from a coach in a situation like yours. And once the season is over, you take the next step with new personell and work on implementing Amorim‘s ideas more and more.
Because this way, he will start next season with very little credit and a fanbase that’s highly skeptical towards him. And considering the squad overturn that’s necessary, even with ideal players growing pains are likely. And those could be enough to make him fail, even if he were on the right track.
The way he’s going about this rebuild just seems incredibly risky to me. And even though I don’t think he’s a bad manager at all, I can easily see him fail because of that.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

What on earth can any manager do about some of the goals conceded yesterday - Dalot being breezed past, Maz slipping and giving the ball away, Altay having a shocker.

I’m firmly behind Ruben until he shows us what he can do with some backing in a transfer window. I see improvement in how we play as a whole but these individual mistakes have plagued us since ETH.

Think all these mistakes we're making have been exacerbated by switching to a new system mid season too. Which is something you can't judge Amorim for. Players giving away the ball so so much is probably a side effect of being a bit uncomfortable whilst getting used to their new roles and how everything is meant to work. I think that will get better next season.

 

[croadyman]

The last few weeks will be very toxic.

I don't think this guy will be a success either way, United should bite the bullet and move on in the summer.

OK then who should we appoint and please don't sit on the fence and say not my decision

 

[tomaldinho1]

There's really just no way to play high octane attacking football and score a load of goals with the players we have in forward positions right now. There's no magic manager that can come in and make that happen.

Anybody who comes in would need signings to make our attack look better.

Yeah I mean Bielsa is an extreme example, but just tone it down to something like Brighton, Bmouth or Brentford (all on 50+ goals compared to our 38) that's a bloody low and realistic bar and with a variety of styles of football all of which I think are exciting enough.

Disagree re signings though, you could hire any more counter/pressing coach and this team would look better because they'd be better suited for it. There is no right or wrong way to play football but there has to be proof of reoccurring chance creation i.e. the plan.

 

[Steve 007]

What did everyone expect?

If I give you a Skoda and ask you to enter a race, you lose to better/faster cars. I then sack you and I give another driver the Skoda do you expect the other driver to beat the better cars?

Amorim does not have the tools to do the job. I am very excited for the summer and I really believe he’s the man to start to turn the ship.

 

[Gavinb33]

There’s truth to it. But there are alternative ways to play other than high octane football. And that’s what I find so irritating. I absolutely see that the squad doesn’t fit into Amorim‘s ideas. What I don’t get, is why he insists on those ideas despite the squad. I think there must be a middle ground where Amorim sets the team up in a way that can evolve further into what he wants, without playing in a way that actually accentuates the squads weaknesses. That’s what I would want to see from a coach in a situation like yours. And once the season is over, you take the next step with new personell and work on implementing Amorim‘s ideas more and more.
Because this way, he will start next season with very little credit and a fanbase that’s highly skeptical towards him. And considering the squad overturn that’s necessary, even with ideal players growing pains are likely. And those could be enough to make him fail, even if he were on the right track.
The way he’s going about this rebuild just seems incredibly risky to me. And even though I don’t think he’s a bad manager at all, I can easily see him fail because of that.

The pressure he'll be under from game 1 next year will be incredible because of the little credit he has, he best hope the team come out of the traps because if they don't I just don't see him lasting

 

[Frank Grimes]

Don't think I can recall a manager have this bad a start and go on to be a success anywhere.

 

[SilentWitness]

There’s truth to it. But there are alternative ways to play other than high octane football. And that’s what I find so irritating. I absolutely see that the squad doesn’t fit into Amorim‘s ideas. What I don’t get, is why he insists on those ideas despite the squad. I think there must be a middle ground where Amorim sets the team up in a way that can evolve further into what he wants, without playing in a way that actually accentuates the squads weaknesses. That’s what I would want to see from a coach in a situation like yours. And once the season is over, you take the next step with new personell and work on implementing Amorim‘s ideas more and more.
Because this way, he will start next season with very little credit and a fanbase that’s highly skeptical towards him. And considering the squad overturn that’s necessary, even with ideal players growing pains are likely. And those could be enough to make him fail, even if he were on the right track.
The way he’s going about this rebuild just seems incredibly risky to me. And even though I don’t think he’s a bad manager at all, I can easily see him fail because of that.

That's who he is though and who he will have said he is before taking the job. The owners and people in charge will know that. It's also probably why he wanted to take over in the summer rather than mid season. It's been a risk on both sides and one that will be figured out fairly quickly next season if it was one worth taking.

 

[Sandikan]

No question he’s failed spectacularly so far.

Feel his only real chance of salvaging anything now is the Europa League, that should buy him some more time. If he fails that, I think he could end up as the first manager sacked next season.

His tactics in the Prem so far, demand so much. Feel a 5-2-2-1 in this league requires absolutely outstanding players in every position. The likes of Dorgu won’t cut it.
We’ll need about 7 new players to get this to work which is an insane ask for a system manager like this who could end up an incredibly expensive gamble.

I've always hated wing backs but watching us try and play it is horrible.

Not only are quality wing backs hard to find but they suddenly become the absolute key men of the team.
All we're doing is having one right sided full back battling admirably to play out of position and one kid learning the job on the other side.
You then lose most of the likes of Garnacho's strengths.

Unless we find a massive treasure trove we are in real problems next season too.

Though whether we should let this guy bang big money for this system is a very real concern too.

 

[Josh 76]

This summer is a major turning point in the clubs history. Buying players that fit into the system is one thing, but will the players actually be good enough in the PL.?

If it goes right, that's fine. But if it goes wrong, then I can see relegation a big possibility next season.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Don't be cheated about our defence. We are soo poor.
Genuine progress will be backed results. Not through opinions or ideas or its clear to see arguments.

Amorim took over when we were 4 points behind 4th place.
Now we are 3 points above 17 Place. But magically we are improving.

• Manchester United have gone 1-0 down in 19 Premier League games this season with only Leicester (27), Southampton (21) and Wolves (20) doing so more often.
• It’s also the joint most games the Red Devils have conceded first in in a single Premier League campaign alongside 2013-14.
• Since Ruben Amorim's first game in charge, only Southampton (59), Tottenham (53) and Leicester (53) have shipped more goals in all competitions than Manchester United (48) among Premier League clubs.

Of course when everything’s being changed midseason.

We are more solid defensively than before. I watch every game (if I’m able to) and we were equal to City in both games (slightly better even), had best performance at Anfield in 10 years and did well vs Arsenal (2nd half at OT).

We look better over last few months than in first few months under Amorim. Is it good enough? No. But surely don’t miss how we looked in most games under ten Hag, shipping ridiculous amount of chances and shots, getting heavily dominated almost every game vs Liverpool, City etc.

Newcastle was a really poor 2nd half performance. But a heavy defeat thanks to couple of obvious mistakes. Lyon was a shaky performance for me in terms od defending and letting too many shots in dangerous areas, did not like that. But games from mid-February until Lyon - I liked most of those performances. You probably didn’t and that’s fine.

 

[Superunknown]

What exactly is his points total per game in the league? Feels like we are averaging not much better than a point a game.

Edit: Just checked, 21 points from 21 games. Horrific.

If we continue with that average and say that he obtains 38 points from 38 games, then these are the league positions we would have finished up in if we apply that to the last 10 PL seasons.

2024/25 - We are currently 14th with 38 points.
2023/24 - Brentford 16th with 39. Forest 17th with 32. Luton relegated in 18th with 26 points.
2022/23 - Forrest finished 16th with 38. Leicester relegated with 34 points. Relegation battle.
2021/22 - Leeds finished 17th with 38. Burnley relegated in 18th with 35. Relegation battle.
2020/21 - Burnley finished 17th with 39. Fulham relegated with 28 in 18th. Flirting with the relegation positions again.
2019/20 - West Ham 16th with 39. Villa 17th with 35. Relegation battle.
2018/19 - Southampton 16th with 39. Brighton 17th with 36. Cardiff relegated with 34. Relegation battle.
2017/18 - Brighton 15th with 40. Huddersfield 16th with 37. Swansea relegated in 18th with 33. Relegation battle.
2016/17 - Watford 17th with 40. Hull relegated with 34 in 18th. Relegation battle.
2015/16 - Sunderland 17th with 39. Newcastle relegated in 18th with 37. Relegation battle.
2014/15 - Sunderland and Villa 16th and 17th with 38. Hull relegated in 18th with 35. Relegation battle.

Not sure if there's anything more that I can say except that this is dreadful. If we have another full season of results such as this, we are in huge trouble for next season. It cannot continue.

 

[LordSpud]

The last thing we need to be doing is giving this guy loads of money to buy players to fit a system no one else plays. If it goes tits up next year we once again are left with absolutely shambles

 

[Pav1878]

I think most fans really like Ruben and want him to succeed, but if he does go this or next season, who would we get to replace him? Which direction do we go in next?

 

[Denis' cuff]

What did everyone expect?

If I give you a Skoda and ask you to enter a race, you lose to better/faster cars. I then sack you and I give another driver the Skoda do you expect the other driver to beat the better cars?

Amorim does not have the tools to do the job. I am very excited for the summer and I really believe he’s the man to start to turn the ship.

Post Stevo.

Same as all the sh!t Ralfie got. FM geniuses who think they know better than a real manager who has not had any tools to manage the team in the short term he has had. Most of em are a cross between Graeme Souness, Paul Scholes and a goldfish. They criticise INEOS for getting rid of the holiday camp OT has become. I know people who have got jobs at OT purely because they know someone who works there who can get them in. No questions asked. They have no value to the club and low level gravy train riders that the club has been riddled with for decades. Right to the top including Fergie, who has been taking hush money from the Glazers to keep quiet. Rotten to the core and Ratcliffe is onto them.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Of course when everything’s being changed midseason.

We are more solid defensively than before. I watch every game (if I’m able to) and we were equal to City in both games (slightly better even), had best performance at Anfield in 10 years and did well vs Arsenal (2nd half at OT).

Thank you for bringing this up.

So when we played so well at Anfield in 10 years, was it because of Players brilliance or Amorim brilliance.

If its Amorim brilliance then why doesn't he replicate it in most matches.
If it's Players brilliance then it means the notion that we have poor squad is wrong. Because a poor squad can't get 'best performance at Anfield in 10 years'.

It can not be when we play so well at Anfield it's Amorim brilliance but when we lose against Bournemouth and Wolves in 2 games before Anfield, it's we have poor squad.

Dont come to me with players raised their game argument. It's managers job to raise our game. If we can play well at Anfield then it means we can play well at every other ground.

So the question is, why can't we

 

[HTG]

That's who he is though and who he will have said he is before taking the job. The owners and people in charge will know that. It's also probably why he wanted to take over in the summer rather than mid season. It's been a risk on both sides and one that will be figured out fairly quickly next season if it was one worth taking.

I guess so. It’s just that it’s an unnecessary risk on both parts. The management could just have waited with his appointment so he could start under better circumstances and he could have been more flexible for the start.
I guess I’m bemoaning that risk because like many on here, I think Amorim could be a part of the solution and I’m a bit afraid he will get wasted.