The numbers are what they are. Quantitatively, United were averaging 5th place and 69 points in the decade before Amorim took over.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
This is possible, maybe even probable. But, everyone agrees Rashford wasn’t giving 100%, or even close, for a long time now.
Setting a standard, even with short term pain, was the right thing to do.
I think the players are giving their all, which cannot always be said in the past. He came in mid-season which was stupid from the club, either get rid of ETH, which they obviously wanted to do and employ a manager, if not Amorim, somebody who fitted their criteria.Except god only knows what their criteria was. The final point should have done for ETH in that case. We do not know what has been said to him. I would say it is getting CL football. We were not going to compete for those top spots so EL is the only other route. If we do not get it they might have to make a decision if they feel the progress in controlling game, which there has been, is not enough to move forward with him. Trouble is any manager coming in is not going to get much backing if we do not get CL football and will be stuck with some good players, some average players and a load of sicknotes.
He’s got a goal or assist roughly every 90 minutes.
We have no money, so we will buy young and cheap players mostly. I am not too optimistic when I watch Dorgu who is not good on the ball.
Everyone excusing him because he hasn't got good attacking players, even though he has the worst defence ever despite playing 5 at the back.
yeah I don't agree with that way of quantifying it. Liverpool, Inter, AC Milan, they'd been fluctuating around for years. Constant peaks and troughs.
You've also left out European performances and all the off pitch decline United have suffered. It's just not comparable. We were the absolute pinnacle of world football not that long ago. No we're considering Liam Delap because we can't afford anything better.
But in anycase, yeah Klopp did really well. He's a brilliant manager. Should we therefore be sacking Amorim because Klopp turned Liverpool around? If not what's the point of the comparison.
It's utter madness to me how Amorim has so little going for him. I found myself surprised at agreeing with Simon Jordan's reflection on Amorim's tenure he said "you'd be foolish to put the house on him turning things around" but like many Simon mentioned respecting Rubens character and his personality.
I said start of Amorim's reign that he cannot run out of rope in his first season. It's already bad enough that there was diminished expectation, I honestly think most fans would have forgiven him for a 10th placed finish for instance. But he has made the team worse with his influence.
It doesn't matter if the players don't fit a particular system there has to be standard by which he has to say to himself enough is enough. It's very likely United lose more games this season it's absolutely unprecedented that a manager will suddenly come good with a win rate to be below 25% end of this season in the league.
It's literally Europa league or bust for him, I've never seen a manager be in a sink or swim situation Inna few months where one competition ultimately drastically changes his fate.
I will not advocate for Amorim to be sacked under any circumstances this season simply because I think Berrada holds more responsibility and accountability given it was his recommendation but if INEOS sacked Amorim next season I'd have no sympathy. I hope he succeeds but it looks like an even worse reiteration of Erik Ten Hag where the club are signing managers who are succeeding in one dimensional leagues.
What has been the benefit of it? It hasn’t galvanised the team. All it has achieved is saving some money. Which is obviously top priority for INEOS.
I said started to turn which means at the moment most are giving him the benefit of the doubt but should results continue into the new season to be so poor, then it won’t take long?
Forest are already sinking like a stone now Wood's goals have dried up.
They are lower on Xg and Xpts than us this season, it's like our very fortunate 8th place finish last year.
It's not proof of managerial impact.
Weren't our great defences built on great partnerships, especially in the centre of it. How do you build partnerships if they are being changed constantly. Yes you can do things in training, but it is on the field of play the understanding gets built. Our defence has been an issue for a long time and not addressing the striking position has made it worse. At least if you have a top strikeforce you might actually outscore teams. We are sterile up front, which makes it the defence cannot concede a goal or we are screwed. How is that good.
Another massive mark against his management. I thought perceivably before the season that United would resemble Simeone of Ath Madrid in some instances given the persistence of 3-5 across the backline and the added defensive midfielder. It's unparalleled how you can have 6 players out of 10 (60%) outfield positions filled with defensive orientated players yet be so poor defensively.
It's also not the players, the defense is the most stacked and well refined area for quality in the entire squad. Not one defender aside Victor (who hardly plays) has had a definitively bad season. So further investment isn't going to fix the team conceding as many goals. A better goalkeeper helps but when I watch United play it's the same vulnerability repeating itself over and over again.
The spaces between inside of the wingback and the outside of the wider centre half, big gaping whole that the opposition either run into at speed or outnumber that area with the fullback. It's an easy crossing position or if the winger is dynamic enough they can shoot and attempt to beat the keeper near post. It happens almost every game.
Not sure that's always true, our record clean sheet run was with a mixed and matched defense, Evans playing a lot for example
Well you have to wait until the summer is over before evaluating what the loan has achieved.
The intention was never to galvanise the team by loaning him. That makes no sense.
It was to get him in the shop window, looking better, to get a better price come summer. Same for Antony. So far it's looking promising in that sense.
Our league performance has been worse than ever before and I don‘t see us beating Bilbao, who have brilliant attackers. It would take a miracle.
I don‘t think Amorim is a bad coach, but he has done too little to deserve to have a go next season.
I don‘t think Amorim is a bad coach, but he has done too little to deserve to have a go next season.
Agree. We do play a lot better. We need to get some more goalscorers next season. The lack of goals are hurting us.
It’s mostly The Caf who are critical tbf, and that is per usual.
Then it’s got nothing to do with setting standards. Which is the point I’m making.
I can't believe United fans are still trying to argue against the decision to get rid of Rashford. The guy was dropped from the squad for a reason.
Oh no. I thought you was meaning pep. Misunderstanding
They forgot he stopped trying when Ole really needed him to perform. I can never forget that. At that point I realized its not about whether he likes the manager or not... once he can't be bothered, he can't be bothered.
Maybe. If your playing 4 at the back. Maybe you need a good partnership, not necessarily though. . But we are playing 5 at the back, and usually have 6 defensive players on the pitch, yet still concede more goals per game than Ragnick did.
If you can't score, don't concede.
Onana seems to love the club. But I feel like we'll never going to have a stable defense as long as he remains the first choice GK. He's an enigma and as a GK that's a nightmare for the team. You can outplay the opponent but if your GK turns up with his slippers that day and concedes a stupid goal it really demotivates you. Like there's always this undo button no matter how far you've progressed.
The irony when this thread is about 75% people moaning about Amorim every week with literally the same 3 or 4 arguments
and you're here every week making the same defenses of the manager too
Yeah and he was fecking off on holiday and going on nights out whenever he wanted. A lot of people just flat out refuse to look at the bigger picture.
Only if he parks his stubborn nature and can adapt in game, every team pushed their full backs high against our wing backs in the PL making our formation switch to 5221, this is easily solved by buying another player like Amad such as Roger Fernandes whose quick and direct to then not pick up their FB basically leaving one of our wing backs as a high winger/Inverted striker when he has tried this with Garnaucho or Amad staying high, it works as we look for Casemiro, Bruno , Maguire, MDL to hit the direct pass and create 3 on 2 attacks.
We need at least 4 offensive players who are much better than what we currently have so swap Cunha, Osimhen, R Fernandes and Ederson for Mount, Hojlund, , Eriksen , Antony and you have a huge upgrade but that would cost a difference of £100m net
Not only Amorim. ETH and Ole too. "They haven't been backed", "haven't got the players they need", always the same excuses. The only one that didn't get an easy ride was Mourinho, despite ending up 2nd and winning a European trophy.
EtH and Ole actually brought some improvement to the club first though. I have no issues with people backing the manager, just let's call a spade a spade when the results have been bad and performances haven't been getting better with time.
Amorim needs to decide what position Kobbie is going to play in his team.
It changes the priorities for the summer.
It changes the priorities for the summer.
I'm somewhere in this plane of thinking as well. I understand people being irate because we basically lose non stop (apart from Europa). However, I don't think another manager would be doing much better while trying to install a progressive system (instead of just "adapting" and playing 4231 counterball to get us around 8th or so... which I'm not even sure would be a certainty either). It can't be overstated how poor the squad is, no matter how many on here wear rose tinted glasses and think because "we're United" that our players are better. The attack, especially with Amad out, is as poor as any in the league. The midfield is a bit better but also very vulnerable to getting run over by the more athletic teams in the league. We have decent defensive options but still far too many players at the back that are seriously error prone, non moreso than the keeper.
It's not about "getting Amorim players for his system" as much as it is just getting better players in general. I don't think we need some super specialized group of signings, Cunha/Delap/Osimhen/Gyokeres/Cherki etc. aren't really "specialists" that need specific environments for them. You watch that game yesterday and we comfortably had 5+ sequences in the final third that should have ended with goals (or at minimum very convertable shots on goal) and yet the bozo's in our attack fecked it up each time. People moan about the 7 defenders but it's not like we are parking Mourinho style buses every match. I want to see us reshape the attack fully this summer and then see where we are at before fully delivering a verdict.
Kobbie himself needs to improve and make the decision easier.
It wasn’t supposed to galvanise anything. It was setting a standard of what’s expected on the training pitch and in your private life to play for Man United.
We’re still under performing, but that doesn’t mean we should accept unprofessional behaviour from players.
EtH took the job in the summer, signed Eriksen, Malacia and Martinez. Lost his first 2 PL matches, and was then further backed with signings of Casemiro and Antony. So what improvements did he bring before being backed? The next summer, he again was backed heavily with the signings of Mount, Hojlund, Onana and Amrabat and proceeded to finish outside the top 6. On the back of FA cup win, he was again heavily backed this summer. So at what time did he improve before being backed?
So what did this apparent setting of standards achieve other than weakening our squad? Are we really setting standards by continuing to pick Hojlund? Or was Rashford’s wage the bigger problem?
It depends how adaptable they are as a squad because from what I can see they only do well when it's pure chaos and no tactics. That to me registers as an alarming lack of quality and intelligence.
Amorim may well be sacked by October, if he is, he can have no complaints. But whoever the manager is, there is a need for a new spine and forward line. So I don't agree with the notion of getting Amorims players in, rather that we need to get quality in regardless.
We desperately need goals though. Whoever the manager is we're going to be goals.
After 22 PL games he has a win rate percentage of 27%. Statistically he’s so far and away the worst manager we’ve had in the PL era it’s actually scary just how much of a disaster his tenure has been. I don’t think anyone expected it to be this bad.
For comparison, Ragnick, who’s considered by most as a complete disaster had a win rate of 41% while ETH the man who was sacked for not being good enough had a win rate of 51%
I admire those who are able to still keep faith, but I can’t think of single manager who’s had such a horrific start at a club and managed to turn it round successfully.
For comparison, Ragnick, who’s considered by most as a complete disaster had a win rate of 41% while ETH the man who was sacked for not being good enough had a win rate of 51%
I admire those who are able to still keep faith, but I can’t think of single manager who’s had such a horrific start at a club and managed to turn it round successfully.
So you have no standards as to how a Manchester United players should behave?
So you have no standards as to how a Manchester United manager should perform?
Are we a better team for letting Rashford go? Has setting standards on the training ground translated to performances on the pitch?
If it makes you feel any better, we've been drawing or losing for 91% of his time in the league.
Oh, no - sorry, that probably doesnt help.
I actually feel sorry for Amorim. Folk talking about getting him some players for his system. For me it's beyond that. Just get the guy some players who can play.
I hate crapping on our players when they play for us. Always backed the Gibsons, Cleverleys etc whilst the donned the shirt despite their faults/weaknesses. But really struggling with likes of Rasmus.
I hate crapping on our players when they play for us. Always backed the Gibsons, Cleverleys etc whilst the donned the shirt despite their faults/weaknesses. But really struggling with likes of Rasmus.