Got my teams mixed up! Their season is done though in terms of winning anything or being relegated, so barring anything unexpected, he looks to be moving to United.
Viktor Gyökeres
- Thread starter Berbaclass
- Start date
Got my teams mixed up! Their season is done though in terms of winning anything or being relegated, so barring anything unexpected, he looks to be moving to United.
Has he missed any penalties?
19 pens scored in a season, is that a record?
19 pens scored in a season, is that a record?
Zero missed penalties this season apparently.
Bruno being so good at penalties does knock a few potential goals off the United forwards.
Hojlund could have done with a few this season. Any new arrivals in the summer should plead with Bruno to alternate takers.
Hojlund could have done with a few this season. Any new arrivals in the summer should plead with Bruno to alternate takers.
Penalties are a rare occasion for United, honestly feels as if we only get a handful a season.
Made me chuckle, and panic at the same time!
We're not allowed penalties anymore because it upset Jurgen Klopp a few years back.
And hopefully he'll tell them where to go. I mean, I get your point about using pens to boost morale (even though I've always found they've got less kudos than earned ones and don't always miraculously reinvigorate strikers).
Ultimately, they're not a charity - your best penalty taker takes them unless you're 5-0 up and, sadly, that doesn't happen too often.
True, But just to be clear, I wasn't advocating Obi should be on them for the 25/26 season.
As was mentioned in the post above mine - Gyokeres has 19 out of 19 and if he were to join United, I'd argue it would be more beneficial for your CF to be banging them in more so than Bruno.
But lets worry about that problem if it ever happens.
Genuinely never realised he's taken 19 penalties this season. That's absolutely fecking absurd.
I think Gyökeres is going to be to strikers what VVD was to CBs. Someone who made their big move on the other side of 25 and then dominated.
Really hope Barca or PSG of Bayern sign him rather than one of the English clubs. He would be a nice successor to Lewandowski.
Really hope Barca or PSG of Bayern sign him rather than one of the English clubs. He would be a nice successor to Lewandowski.
Needlessly aggressive posting
I don’t know where this guys come from but this was so ridiculous to read that at the first time I thought it was pure trolling, but reading the historic of this poster he really believes his own hype I guess.
He scored 7 goals between Benfica and Porto, and I didn’t even bothered to check his assists but I can almost guarantee he has done a couple against them.
So, here is one example from the guy who never scored against Benfica, and who only plays against players who nobody knows.
Like Di Maria, Otamendi, João Neves and so on…
Example number 2:
Assist vs Benfica
Assist vs Benfica number 2
Don’t bother replying, I usually reply to trolls, but when I see a compulsive liar, or at best an idiot I don’t reply.
PS: suppose it’s possible to watch on YT at least, don’t know if it is possible here.
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Maybe it was the wording but I agree with him if he meant that, it's better to have a team full of players comitted to the team.
For what its worth, Fergie gave the penalties to Sheringham (he missed the first one) in 97 even though Irwin never missed. And in 98 he gave them to Dwight Yorke (missed his first one, too.) Fergie's thing was, the striker should be taking the penalties unless they bottle it, then you give it to Mr Reliable, hence why Denis Irwin kept getting them. If we signed Gyokeres, I can see Bruno handing them over. 99 out of 100 strikers will tell you if they are on the pitch and a player from another position takes them, they're not happy. Strikers need goals. Hopefully we are having this discussion in the summer when if we get a proper one. Bruno is a leader anyway, I doubt he'd mind giving up the pen duties.
Mind you if Ronaldo couldnt get them off him, good luck.
Mind you if Ronaldo couldnt get them off him, good luck.
Yeah that's my fear, however if he has really declared he only wants Champions League team that's it. Just worry about Ruben putting all his faith in someone inexperienced like Delap. Mind you they are saying he wants European football too so who knows where we look then.
I go back and forth on Gyökeres. He certainly passes the eye test but his numbers are mad to the point of unsustainable this season. He is due some significant regression next season even if he were staying at Sporting never mind trying to make the massive step up from the Portuguese league.
I feel like if he signed for Barca or Real he would probably smash it but I am not so sure about him in the Prem. All in all I am more wary of signing him for a big fee and big wages than I am of missing out. We need too much right now to be spending such fees and wages on any one player this summer anyway.
I had the same thinking but considering we rarely scored much goals, penalty kick is our best chance to score. It might be different if we were up 3 or 4 nil.
For me, the easiest way to look at Gyokeres is to simply half his current numbers if he comes to England - whether Arsenal, United, or Pool.
He will probably finish this year with somewhere close to 55 goals in all comps so anything near half of that would be completely realistic and would be in line with what Isak has done this year.
That’s reasonable and probably even likely. But there’s still the chance that he can’t make the step up or handle the pressure. And considering he’ll be 27 this summer if he does pull a Darwin we are completely fecked. I just don’t like the risk factor.
Completely understandable. For me, the risk is significantly higher with a player who hasn't demonstrated they can score a lot of goals. The reason I think Gyokeres would be a good fit is he's a goal machine and has already proven he can be wildly successful in Amorim's system. The existing relationship they only reinforces this.
Yeah admittedly it would take a lot of regression for him to fail here. But then there is GK and CM and 10 to worry about as well as another wide option. As we’ve discussed prior I worry we won’t have the funds to address them all if we spend big on any one player.
I don’t have the same vibe or energy regarding this guy and Darwin. I made just 4 posts in his transfer thread, none of them positive:
I’m not interested in masters of hindsight, but posts before a player goes on to do anything are always interesting to look back on. As you can see from the run on conversation, the posts about Darwin in that snippet are far from complimentary; I am not inclined to read through that whole thread and dug my own posts because I remember how unimpressed I was with this new “sensation” at the time he was being looked at by us as well as other suitors. I also recall it being at least 50/50 of people in that thread being thoroughly unimpressed with him. It’s, evidently, not just about goals - as he was doing OK on that front - he looked clumsy, cumbersome and unimpressive; nothing you look at and think wow! Or want! Contrast my posts in the Joao Neves thread and I am raving about him from the outset; it was obvious this was a world class player in the making and it’s no surprise whatsoever that he’s now regarded as one of the best midfielders in the world.
You assess by discernment on a case by case basis. I don’t think it’s particularly hard to spot the players who are clearly way above whatever the mean is for the league they are in. Gyokeres has the markers that align with potential “explosion” elsewhere. You can go by the numbers or you can look at how he moves, thinks, executes and ascertain what that would mean against superior defenders with less time and space to operate in. Often with talents performing well above the level of the league they are in, it’s like watching a player in a bubble, like the game going on around them is different to what others are playing. You can see the disparate nature and you can easily factor it into assessment - the harder thing to do in those instances is assess how someone like a Darwin will do; whether what he was doing was as simplistic and cumbersome as it looked or whether you’re the one missing a trick there.
For me, I don’t like the odds and I always call out players who we are linked with who have poor technique and don’t look like they have the prerequisite talent to draw from. It’s important to ask what a player looks like with and without their physicality and athletic prowess. Do they have the kind of technique that will carry, or is it a case of the moment they start to physically decline, they are fecked? You want to “stumble” across players whose brains and technique carry independently; braun should be an asset. You will see it in nearly all the top strikers; they start off usually as some kind of athletic marvel, but even on the wind down, when they are no longer able to utilise any athletic advantage, they remain well above average with their goalscoring because of their technique, intelligence and guile: Shearer, Kane, Lewandowski, Benzema and so many others fit the profile to a tee. By the end, they can barely get around the pitch, yet they remain one step ahead in their heads and execution. Why am I mentioning that in the Gyokeres thread? Because even if he doesn’t end up being an elite striker, he has the markers that state it’s not his physical prowess carrying him, but the other things I mentioned; the physical elements are a bonus, but what grabs the attention is the smarts and execution on display. The antithesis of a Darwin.
It’ll be no surprise to me if Gyokeres goes on to smash it elsewhere. He has the tools I would associate with doing so, whereas if a Darwin did the same I would have been surprised/“shocked”. The same thoughts about Gyokeres revolved around Alvarez before City made him a Haaland backup. That was a player who looked the part and who we could have done with. It was obvious looking at him that he could deliver in Europe if given the chance.
There’s going to be doubts about smaller leagues, but that’s why you take players who look levels above in them, not ones - like Darwin - who don’t.
For all the Portuguese league fans, is this lad better than Mario Jardel?
About the penalties, I would be interested how many did he won by himself. If he does that here too, it will also give us a few more goals, even if he would give then to Bruno.
You can divide it by 10 if he’s got a united shirt on.
I think that's the risk with him. It's Portuguese league and he could be the next Mario jardel if he moved to PL.
No chance. Bruno rarely misses.
If he was prepared to give them up he could have given a few to Hojlund this season to get the pressure of his back
Jardel was a good header but slower (in my memory at least). I think this lad is a better all round footballer
Yeah no chance Bruno hands over his pens unless Gyokeres is even better. I can only remember him doing it once, because Rashford badly needed a goal.
At the end of the day, you want your best taker on them. It doesn’t matter who gets credited with the goal, just that it is one.
At the end of the day, you want your best taker on them. It doesn’t matter who gets credited with the goal, just that it is one.
Great post, enjoyed reading that. You've made up my mind about him as not really watched him play.
Well. Look on the bright side. Signing Darwin is how Liverpool ended up with Mac Allister and Gravenberch. Klopp took one try at signing players and was so terrible at it he immediately told Liverpool to hire that German guy to take charge of that instead
and that's how they got those twoIf we start doing better as a team and having bigger leads, I can see Bruno handing them over (like he's done for Rashford before).
Recently our penalties have been so high pressure that it's a no brainer given Bruno's track record
Recently our penalties have been so high pressure that it's a no brainer given Bruno's track record
He's did those for Rashford for the sake of his confidence.
Generally it's nor a good idea to change penalty takers too much, the best at them should always take them.
Is his agent negotiating with United and the final stumbling block is he wants penalty duties?
Bruno should always take our penalties. Not sure there’s anyone better in world football.
If it was the difference between us getting Gyokeres or not getting him, I'd absolutely let him take them. He's also very reliable, the tiny fraction more reliable that Bruno might be is negligible in terms of outcomes for this football club.
Considering we get 2 per season, United would shake hands immediately
Largely agree with this - good post. People are so lazy and just look at stats rather than use their own eyes and brains when assessing players. Reasonable short-cut when you don’t have time to watch all the players we get linked with yourself, but often steers people wrong.
Then you have the players like Amad where you could see early on that he had a technical level, speed of thought and excellent awareness of space that would put him in a good place to excel, even if he didn’t have the physical attributes and tenacity (yet) to make the step up. He wasn’t dominating to that extent, but he was one where you could see that if he just could add some ingredients to his game he could be a massive success. Mastantuono is a similar one where you can just see by how he moves, even in short YouTube clips, that he has that foundation to become an absolutely excellent player. Consistently excellent technique, spatial awareness and an excellent strike. He’ll likely take a while to adapt to the speed and physicality of a league like the prem, but if can cut it physically he’ll be a success.
Out of interest, what are the markers you see in Gyökeres that makes you think he’ll smash it?
Jardel is not a good comparation.
Completely different types of players.
Jardel was 30 I think when he went to the premier league, he was past it plus had cocaine and alcohol problems.
In his prime I’m sure he would have scored a lot a more.
If he could score again a prime Milan in the 90’s against Maldini and Desailly I’m sure he could score in the premier league.
The thing is Gyokeres can create plays just by his sheer force and runs.
Jardel was a traditional striker, deadly in the box and probably one of the best headers the world has seen. But he had to be served with good crosses.
Who was better?
Probably prime Jardel if you had a team built for him.
For modern football Gyokeres is better because he is a hard worker, strong and runs a lot with the ball and assists as well. Obviously good finisher as well.
And don’t even compare Darwin to him, because Darwin at Benfica missed the same chances he does at Liverpool, thing is Benfica were so dominant he could afford to miss those, he would eventually score.
Plus Gyokeres has almost double the goals of Darwin’s best season.
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I probably shouldn’t have mentioned Darwin in retrospect. Wasn’t actually comparing him to Gyökeres as a player so much as painting a picture of where we would be in a worst case scenario where we sign Gyökeres for a big fee, he underperforms as so many other Portuguese league exports have and we are then left with another player on high wages at an advanced age. Admittedly, as I said in other posts, that is highly unlikely as I do rate Gyökeres unlike Darwin at the time.
He certainly looks a player you would expect to have been snatched up already by one of the usual suspects. But instead it is seemingly us or Arsenal so far which I find rather odd. But then he is a bit of an odd case being that he was a Championship player for Coventry at age 24. It’s a strange arc to say the least, especially when you consider he was a Brighton youth product. Which is probably the only reason we are in with a chance of signing him.
My concerns about signing him really have more to do with our current state and the need for change in our transfer policy than his quality. We are up against it with PSR and still need players all over the pitch. Despite our recent spending we are still running Lindelöf out in big matches and our new £30m LWB looks worse than the academy player he’s currently keeping out of the team. It’s got to the point now where the more we spend on a player the less I expect him to succeed. As you said in another thread, who is the last £50m+ player who succeeded here ?
That said, if we’re going to spend £50m+ on any one player this summer I much prefer Gyökeres to Cunha.