Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[fergiewherearethou]

How many of them changed systems mid season and how many of the managers have had at least one summer window to put a team together?

Context.

Wolves and Everton changed managers, don't know about the systems.
Let's not confuse context with excuses.
In my opinion any position lower than 8th, is a massive underachievement.

 

[witchtrials]

I actually think he'll be given a stay of execution over the summer as the impact on our PRS figures of having to sack Amorim and his team and recruit a new manager would be too great.

However, if we do fail to win the Europa League I expect that some other heads will roll. Perhaps Berrada, as he is reported to have pushed hard for Amorim. I can't imagine Ratcliffe wanting to go into season with the same management that have served up this diabolical season.

 

[Shark]

The truth is we made huge mistake to sack Ole! Rangnick is not a choice for head coach but his opinion on what to improve is great.
The real damages have been done by two transfer windows under ETH. The squad lost more physicality. That can only be fixed in the next two transfer windows.

The man who just said in an interview that he was happy with Fred and Mctominay in midfield?

 

[Roboc7]

The squad isn’t equipped for the Premier League, maybe Amorim isn’t either. I fully expect us to finish 4th from bottom and I’d have us as big underdogs against Spurs in the Europa final if both teams get there.

Maybe he gets enough signings to turn it around next season but I can’t really see it happening and writing is on the wall already. As said before for me this is a huge rebuild and probably multiple managers to fix.

The biggest problem is the players and if recruitment doesn’t improve considerably it’s just going to be more of the same year after year.

 

[Giggsy13]

He has done nothing outside Portugal which has a weak league. Hiring such a manager is a huge gamble and then he wants to change our system. Huge huge gamble. But also very symptomatic of us, so much incompetence. Manager, scouts, DOF, CEO, owners.

The worse thing is that this further solidifies the incompetence of INEOS. They backed Berrada at the expense of Ashworth in appointing Amorim. So what does that mean for Berrada if Amorim is sacked? Could be more chaos.

 

[soapythecat]

for those who think he’s a pre season and a CF away from turning this around. How long into next season will you say enough if performances don’t change? Genuine question.
I don’t think 4 players make this system any more fruitful and we could have prime Haarland up front and still look toothless.
ETH all over again and I feel many, many of us on here can see this.

 

[Camilo]

Surprise, surprise, all the posters who went missing after Bilbao, are back with full force.

Just crazy that the people who criticise this obviously disastrous and embarrassing season didn't criticise a great night of football, late on a Thursday night before work.

The league form is appalling, he's not done his job and he's honestly lucky he's being given a free run at next season. He certainly hasn't deserved it. Maybe he'll do great, but he shouldn't have the chance, stubborn git.

 

[city-puma]

The man who just said in an interview that he was happy with Fred and Mctominay in midfield?

You have reading comprehension issues really. It’s the most stupid thing to put your words into another’s mouth. It isn’t funny nor clever as you think.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The worse thing is that this further solidifies the incompetence of INEOS. They backed Berrada at the expense of Ashworth in appointing Amorim. So what does that mean for Berrada if Amorim is sacked? Could be more chaos.

If Amorim doesn't work out, Berrada's position will be untenable IMO.

Berrada knows this, so he will give Amorim plenty of rope, as their fates are intertwined. With this in mind, I don't think there's any chance Amorim is sacked before Christmas, even if we lose every remaining league game this season and the EL final.

 

[hellhunter]

If Amorim doesn't work out, Berrada's position will be untenable IMO.

Berrada knows this, so he will give Amorim plenty of rope, as their fates are intertwined. With this in mind, I don't think there's any chance Amorim is sacked before Christmas, even if we lose every remaining league game this season and the EL final.

But surely Brexit Jim would be very aware of this intertwinedness and conflict of interest?

 

[Dominos]

He has done nothing outside Portugal which has a weak league. Hiring such a manager is a huge gamble and then he wants to change our system. Huge huge gamble. But also very symptomatic of us, so much incompetence. Manager, scouts, DOF, CEO, owners.

No more of a gamble than Arne Slot to be fair.

Amorim was a manager so highly rated he was going to get a big job eventually.

 

[soapythecat]

The squad isn’t equipped for the Premier League, maybe Amorim isn’t either. I fully expect us to finish 4th from bottom and I’d have us as big underdogs against Spurs in the Europa final if both teams get there.

Maybe he gets enough signings to turn it around next season but I can’t really see it happening and writing is on the wall already. As said before for me this is a huge rebuild and probably multiple managers to fix.

The biggest problem is the players and if recruitment doesn’t improve considerably it’s just going to be more of the same year after year.

Why is our squad so bad? Why can’t the manger take some responsibility for the poor performances?
The squad is packed full of players who have pushed for PL titles, won trophies etc. But people would have us believe it’s their fault we set up and play the way we do?
I’m not hanging it at all. This team were getting hyped for a top 4 push at the start of the season but now we are being told they are relegation fodder because they can’t play a system that suits about 3 players in the squad.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

If he can't improve the results with 200 million than he has to go. I don't expect a title challenge but we should be up there in the top 5.

A lot of posters have given up on the idea the manger is supposed to ‘improve’ the players he already has and think it can only happen by replacing them all over the next 2-3yrs.

 

[Giggsy13]

The squad isn’t equipped for the Premier League, maybe Amorim isn’t either. I fully expect us to finish 4th from bottom and I’d have us as big underdogs against Spurs in the Europa final if both teams get there.

Maybe he gets enough signings to turn it around next season but I can’t really see it happening and writing is on the wall already. As said before for me this is a huge rebuild and probably multiple managers to fix.

The biggest problem is the players and if recruitment doesn’t improve considerably it’s just going to be more of the same year after year.

*Amorim isn’t equipped for the Premier League.

 

[GlazersHater]

That's precisely what is going to happen.



He hasn't yet had a chance to actually build his squad with the players he needs. If you add a proper striker, + Cunha and one or two other players, we could be looking at a completely different situation next year.

We could, but again we couldn't. As of today results and performances give no indication that bringing 3-4 players will solve this. Even if we manage to make great recruitment the system may fail.

Last year it was injuries for ten Hag, people talking about how having a complete squad would make all the difference. I fear we'll be making the same mistake and throwing away more millions and another year.

At this point it's hard to be anything but pessimistic with the team. Top teams are light years away and we're not only not getting closer but we're getting further and further each year.

 

[John XII]

Moaning feckers.

Exactly. Support the team. Rome wasn't built in a day

 

[Ezkay]

Moaning feckers.

Yep - apart from the fact we have 6 wins in 24, sit around 17th on the form table and look hopeless in every game can’t see why people are upset

 

[witchtrials]

If Amorim doesn't work out, Berrada's position will be untenable IMO.

Berrada knows this, so he will give Amorim plenty of rope, as their fates are intertwined. With this in mind, I don't think there's any chance Amorim is sacked before Christmas, even if we lose every remaining league game this season and the EL final.

This is a very good point, and, alongside PSR, a good reason not to expect change over the summer.

Though if Berrada thinks the writing is on the wall for Amorim I guess there's a chance he tries to redeem himself by decisively advocating for change.

 

[lsd]

Exactly. Support the team. Rome wasn't built in a day

We are struggling to reach forty points which is an absolute disgrace. There's is no excuse for that and I mean none. It's shocking and he has to answer

 

[Cloud7]

for those who think he’s a pre season and a CF away from turning this around. How long into next season will you say enough if performances don’t change? Genuine question.
I don’t think 4 players make this system any more fruitful and we could have prime Haarland up front and still look toothless.
ETH all over again and I feel many, many of us on here can see this.

There’s no guarantee he turns this around at all, but I think that a striker, another attacker of some iteration and a new GK are essential, Amorim or not. The transfers transcend the manager now anyway.

Even if the system is failing, the squad needs improvement.

 

[Mike Smalling]

for those who think he’s a pre season and a CF away from turning this around. How long into next season will you say enough if performances don’t change? Genuine question.
I don’t think 4 players make this system any more fruitful and we could have prime Haarland up front and still look toothless.
ETH all over again and I feel many, many of us on here can see this.

Depends on a few things. First, which players we manage to bring in, and second, what you mean by "turning this around". Because this is a multi-season project with or without Amorim, in my view. The squad is in such a bad state that even with a really good transfer window, I would not be expecting top four next season (again, from Amorim or any other manager).

But let's say we bring in Cunha + a quality striker and a good central midfielder, I would expect that we can see significant improvements to the performances and that we are well on the way to finish with around 65 points or more. If we start the season similar to this one, I'd expect his job would be in serious jeopardy around the same time of year we got rid of ETH (Mid/End October)

I think it's perfectly reasonable to question Amorim and in particular his system, but I think's it's bordering on delusion to think that another manager would have us anywhere close to the fun positions this year. I'll make this point again and again: The squad is really poor. No quality up front, not physically fit for the PL, full of youngsters, old men, sicknotes and frauds. No manager or system gets around that fundamental fact.

 

[Cloud7]

If Amorim doesn't work out, Berrada's position will be untenable IMO.

Berrada knows this, so he will give Amorim plenty of rope, as their fates are intertwined. With this in mind, I don't think there's any chance Amorim is sacked before Christmas, even if we lose every remaining league game this season and the EL final.

Genuine question, since this sort of structure is still new at United. Are the CEO’s/DOF type of people actually changed that often at other clubs? Or are they liable to be replaced after one bad judgement call?

Other clubs cycle through managers all the time, some are worse calls than others, but are the executives who make those calls actually fired that often?

To me that seems like it defeats the purpose of this kind of structure, no? The whole purpose of the structure is meant to be creating some kind of continuity and direction. I can’t see how that happens if the CEO is sacked after making one bad call.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Exactly. Support the team. Rome wasn't built in a day

That’s kinda the exact opposite of what you’re doing though.
You’re basically asking to throw the team out and support the man.

 

[witchtrials]

Genuine question, since this sort of structure is still new at United. Are the CEO’s/DOF type of people actually changed that often at other clubs? Or are they liable to be replaced after one bad judgement call?

Other clubs cycle through managers all the time, some are worse calls than others, but are the executives who make those calls actually fired that often?

To me that seems like it defeats the purpose of this kind of structure, no? The whole purpose of the structure is meant to be creating some kind of continuity and direction. I can’t see how that happens if the CEO is sacked after making one bad call.

Well we sacked Ashworth after about 4 days, so that's one percent.

 

[John XII]

That’s kinda the exact opposite of what you’re doing though.
You’re basically asking to throw the team out and support the man.

The players seem to be on board.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

We could, but again we couldn't. As of today results and performances give no indication that bringing 3-4 players will solve this.

I simply disagree with this.

I think in the past few months, our play has improved a lot not just from Amorim's first few months here (which were dire) but also from basically any point in the past year and a half under Ten Hag (also dire).

We were utterly shite against Newcastle and deserved to be tonked. We were also not great today but then the side today was so far removed from our strongest XI that I don't see why anyone would draw too many conclusions.

Against Forest at The City Ground, we conceded early thanks to a brilliant run from Elanga. We then dominated the play and should, without doubt, have scored at least once. Against City at Old Trafford both teams were quite flat but we created the better chances. Against Wolves at Old Trafford, we created the better chances and then got sucker-punched by a brilliant free kick goal. And against Bournemouth last weekend, we were the better side and they were honestly pretty fortunate not to be down to ten men far sooner than they were.

Then there's the Europa League. In the first leg against Lyon, we could easily have come away a goal or two up were it not for two howlers from Onana. And then in the home leg, we should have been 3-0 up before we admittedly fell apart. We should never have needed a miraculous come back at the death. And our most recent match was a 3-0 win against a side that had previously lost three matches at home all season.

I think there has plenty to be encouraged by in recent months if you look at the performances rather than just the results. There is still a feck of a long way to go before we are where I think we should be given the money we've spent but I have seen enough to make me think that, with the right signings, Amorim can improve the team considerably in the coming years.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Depends on a few things. First, which players we manage to bring in, and second, what you mean by "turning this around". Because this is a multi-season project with or without Amorim, in my view. The squad is in such a bad state that even with a really good transfer window, I would not be expecting top four next season (again, from Amorim or any other manager).

But let's say we bring in Cunha + a quality striker and a good central midfielder, I would expect that we can see significant improvements to the performances and that we are well on the way to finish with around 65 points or more. If we start the season similar to this one, I'd expect his job would be in serious jeopardy around the same time of year we got rid of ETH (Mid/End October)

I think it's perfectly reasonable to question Amorim and in particular his system, but I think's it's bordering on delusion to think that another manager would have us anywhere close to the fun positions this year. I'll make this point again and again: The squad is really poor. No quality up front, not physically fit for the PL, full of youngsters, old men, sicknotes and frauds. No manager or system gets around that fundamental fact.

Quick question then… which players are up to it, in your opinion?

And by that I mean, top 6.

 

[RedSky]

Moaning feckers.

Agreed. In a game where we played a bunch of youngsters and had one of the lowest ever average ages and some people are losing their shit? Like no shit. Brentford are quality, we were Away from home and played an extremely young team with a bunch of players returning from injury and our 2nd rate goalkeeper. Cretins.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Maybe he gets enough signings to turn it around next season but I can’t really see it happening and writing is on the wall already. As said before for me this is a huge rebuild and probably multiple managers to fix.

I think his biggest problem may be that the funds he will get will mean he has to buy quite a few Dorgu level players. Players who may come good over time, but not ones who will come in and immediately move the dial.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Agreed. In a game where we played a bunch of youngsters and had one of the lowest ever average ages and some people are losing their shit? Like no shit. Brentford are quality, we were Away from home and played an extremely young team with a bunch of players returning from injury and our 2nd rate goalkeeper. Cretins.

“Brentford are quality”, we really are at the lowest of the low.

 

[vanrooney]

I simply disagree with this.

I think in the past few months, our play has improved a lot not just from Amorim's first few months here (which were dire) but also from basically any point in the past year and a half under Ten Hag (also dire).

We were utterly shite against Newcastle and deserved to be tonked. We were also not great today but then the side today was so far removed from our strongest XI that I don't see why anyone would draw too many conclusions.

Against Forest at The City Ground, we conceded early thanks to a brilliant run from Elanga. We then dominated the play and should, without doubt, have scored at least once. Against City at Old Trafford both teams were quite flat but we created the better chances. Against Wolves at Old Trafford, we created the better chances and then got sucker-punched by a brilliant free kick goal. And against Bournemouth last weekend, we were the better side and they were honestly pretty fortunate not to be down to ten men far sooner than they were.

Then there's the Europa League. In the first leg against Lyon, we could easily have come away a goal or two up were it not for two howlers from Onana. And then in the home leg, we should have been 3-0 up before we admittedly fell apart. We should never have needed a miraculous come back at the death. And our most recent match was a 3-0 win against a side that had previously lost three matches at home all season.

I think there has plenty to be encouraged by in recent months if you look at the performances rather than just the results. There is still a feck of a long way to go before we are where I think we should be given the money we've spent but I have seen enough to make me think that, with the right signings, Amorim can improve the team considerably in the coming years.

100% agree. Even if you look at stats alone we got better the last games. With important players like amad back, I assume we end the season well by going to Bilbao and win it. Get 3-4 players in and the system - that you can see start working - will get in full flow hopefully

 

[McFred]

If Amorim doesn't work out, Berrada's position will be untenable IMO.

Berrada knows this, so he will give Amorim plenty of rope, as their fates are intertwined. With this in mind, I don't think there's any chance Amorim is sacked before Christmas, even if we lose every remaining league game this season and the EL final.

Yes you would have to think this is the case alright. Ratcliffe has been very vocal in lambasting the performance of the previous management team, so his own credibility and judgement is at stake if he allows Berrada another crack at getting the manager right should Amorim not improve, but I think he will be given the start of next season to prove himself.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Genuine question, since this sort of structure is still new at United. Are the CEO’s/DOF type of people actually changed that often at other clubs? Or are they liable to be replaced after one bad judgement call?

Other clubs cycle through managers all the time, some are worse calls than others, but are the executives who make those calls actually fired that often?

To me that seems like it defeats the purpose of this kind of structure, no? The whole purpose of the structure is meant to be creating some kind of continuity and direction. I can’t see how that happens if the CEO is sacked after making one bad call.

Normally I agree with that, but I think what makes this specific situation different is that Berrada upended the entire structure and staked everything on Amorim being a success, and all this at a time when the club is already broke and can't afford to have a risky bet go wrong.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

“Brentford are quality”, we really are at the lowest of the low.

Brentford are a good side. If we'd played our strongest side and lost in the same manner we did today I'd have been very disappointed. But the side we put out was the youngest we've ever played in the Premier League, and there were maybe four players from our strongest side who started the match.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

But surely Brexit Jim would be very aware of this intertwinedness and conflict of interest?

He would, but I don't think he wants to continue to be perceived as the owner who will always step in and interfere with the running of the business at the first sign of trouble.

 

[Eugenius]

Agreed. In a game where we played a bunch of youngsters and had one of the lowest ever average ages and some people are losing their shit? Like no shit. Brentford are quality, we were Away from home and played an extremely young team with a bunch of players returning from injury and our 2nd rate goalkeeper. Cretins.

Our XI was 3 youngsters and 8 seasoned internationals.

 

[Roboc7]

Why is our squad so bad? Why can’t the manger take some responsibility for the poor performances?
The squad is packed full of players who have pushed for PL titles, won trophies etc. But people would have us believe it’s their fault we set up and play the way we do?
I’m not hanging it at all. This team were getting hyped for a top 4 push at the start of the season but now we are being told they are relegation fodder because they can’t play a system that suits about 3 players in the squad.

Who has pushed for a PL title? It’s a really poor squad irrespective of the manager, the quality of the players is a bigger issue than the formation or the manager.

Amorim will pay the price at some point, it’s not working and probably never will. We should be doing better but any decent manager is going to want to play a system/style that doesn’t suit many of these players. It’s a huge rebuild required whoever is manager.

 

[RedSky]

I think his biggest problem may be that the funds he will get will mean he has to buy quite a few Dorgu level players. Players who may come good over time, but not ones who will come in and immediately move the dial.

It depends what you think we should be achieving next Season. Realistically, we need a keeper, RWB, midfielder, forward and CF. We could in theory go without a RWB and use our existing players, or buy a very cheap punt. But the other 4 positions are non negiotable in my mind. Assuming they aren't terrible signings then it should lift us to challenging for Europe at least. If people expect better than that then I think they don't really have a grasp of reality.

There's a lot of work to be done with this squad and a lot of project players that require time and patience (haha), adding more project players seems like a recipe for disaster, both short and medium term. Time for INEOS to dig deep and get genuine quality in.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

Our XI was 3 youngsters and 8 seasoned internationals.

We started with maybe four players from our strongest side, one of whom (De Ligt) was returning from injury and in typical fashion had to come off before half-time due to another injury. The rest of the side was a mixture of inexperienced teenagers and bench players, some of whom had also only recently returned from injury.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Brentford are a good side.

They are about to end the season on a lower points haul to what we had last year when every man and his dog agrees we were shite.

Brentford are alright.