Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

When we have even just a decent attacking trio, Amorim and his system will deliver.
 
Isotope said:
When we have even just a decent attacking trio, Amorim and his system will deliver.
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Cunha and a good CF, even if not top level, will transform this team and bring this system to life in my opinion. To be honest I think that’s the case no matter what system we play, but I can see the potential if we get this right. We just need the right players to exploit the opportunities that the system creates.

We could do with a CB capable of playing those diagonal balls to the WBs who are always free, and attackers who can exploit the space that is created when the WBs stretch teams across the pitch. Cunha would be a great buy for us, so if we get him then we’re off to a good start.

A CM who is just an all round good footballer with good technical ability will help a lot too, though perhaps Bruno will fill that role permanently next season.
 
pocco said:
Cunha and a good CF, even if not top level, will transform this team and bring this system to life in my opinion. To be honest I think that’s the case no matter what system we play, but I can see the potential if we get this right. We just need the right players to exploit the opportunities that the system creates.

We could do with a CB capable of playing those diagonal balls to the WBs who are always free, and attackers who can exploit the space that is created when the WBs stretch teams across the pitch. Cunha would be a great buy for us, so if we get him then we’re off to a good start.

A CM who is just an all round good footballer with good technical ability will help a lot too, though perhaps Bruno will fill that role permanently next season.
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I'm being greedy, and want a Frimpong level of RWB. And yes, if we have the money or Casemiro leave next season, we absolutely need a well rounded CM.
 
pocco said:
I think there’s a bit of truth to both sides of the arguments. Bilbao had us pinned most of the time so we were in a flat back 5 defensively. And this has been our achilles most of the season. Teams are playing wingers high and wide, pushing our WBs into a back 5, and therefore outnumbering us all over the park in the build up, which just puts us under more pressure. I think we can agree it’s something for Ruben to overcome.

Having said that, perhaps the answer is right there for him. Play more offensive players at WB and give them something to think about, don’t let them freely push a winger up with no thought of what’s coming the other way. I have a lot of sympathy for Amorim because I’m sure he knows this, but he’s simply not had the players at his disposal to force the opposition to reconsider their shape.

Another thing he does do now and then is go 442 with one wide CB moving to fullback and one WB then pushing ahead to wide midfield. It allows us to press better and we’ve had some joy using this. But again, I think it didn’t work tonight because instead of Mazraoui moving to RB, we had Lindelof or Yoro on the other side, and it just didn’t have the same fluidity.

Above all else though, I’m just very confident that if we start adding players with the quality, pace and power of Matheus Cunha, then we’ll be considerably better next season. A fit Amad too will make this whole system work so much better. It’s hard to try to force your opponent to respect you tactically when you have such little threat in attack as we do currently.
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When people use this ‘7 defensive players’ jibe they’re using it as an implication Amorim just wants to sit back and not get forward. pascell it turns out is just talking about our defensive position. I mean, yeah, we will have to defend at times, as you say when we’re pinned back as we were in the first half at times (which was always going to be the case when they had to come out and attack). It’s just a completely disingenuous argument though to describe our defensive position as Amorim’s entire game plan, when he so clearly wants to attack - with those same wingbacks, with those same CBs pushing up. but frankly it’s typical of the line of argument from the Amorim haters in here.

As you say, once we inject some additional quality in our attack we look so, so different. Whether that’s Amad tonight or hopefully Cunha next season. another reason you can’t also blame Amorim for failing to train the attack, as many in here have also pinned on him - sometimes you just need that natural quality too for any system to work.
 
pascell said:
The shape was a flat back 5 with 2 DMs in front of them, whichever way you look at it.

Dorgu being out main focal point of attack says it all, that first half was terrible. He should've gone to grab a goal or two in the first half, then rested players.
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It’s a 5-4-1 when defending, a 3-2-5 when in the attacking 3rd with possession. You are focusing on the formation shown on the telecast, not what is actually happening in the game.

It was a frustrating first half with the misses. But they only had one good chance ( which was hit over the bar), the goal was a great shot that should’ve been saved.
 
Would say some of his most effective subs tonight and boy did we need it after that first 70 mins
 
pocco said:
I think there’s a bit of truth to both sides of the arguments. Bilbao had us pinned most of the time so we were in a flat back 5 defensively. And this has been our achilles most of the season. Teams are playing wingers high and wide, pushing our WBs into a back 5, and therefore outnumbering us all over the park in the build up, which just puts us under more pressure. I think we can agree it’s something for Ruben to overcome.

Having said that, perhaps the answer is right there for him. Play more offensive players at WB and give them something to think about, don’t let them freely push a winger up with no thought of what’s coming the other way. I have a lot of sympathy for Amorim because I’m sure he knows this, but he’s simply not had the players at his disposal to force the opposition to reconsider their shape.

Another thing he does do now and then is go 442 with one wide CB moving to fullback and one WB then pushing ahead to wide midfield. It allows us to press better and we’ve had some joy using this. But again, I think it didn’t work tonight because instead of Mazraoui moving to RB, we had Lindelof or Yoro on the other side, and it just didn’t have the same fluidity.

Above all else though, I’m just very confident that if we start adding players with the quality, pace and power of Matheus Cunha, then we’ll be considerably better next season. A fit Amad too will make this whole system work so much better. It’s hard to try to force your opponent to respect you tactically when you have such little threat in attack as we do currently.
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People were complaining when we were playing a 4-2-3-1 that we were a counterattack team, both under Ole and ETH. We were bogged down in that end as well.

If Amorim was playing a 4-3-3 it wouldn’t be about the formation, but the players.

The reason we look bad is 70% lack of true top talent, 20% mentality and 10% bad fits in this system.
 
We've scored 19 goals in the 6 knock out round games in Europe. In the league, we've scored 18 goals in the last 15 games, since the first game of the year against Liverpool. I don't think that's all down to quality of the PL. Some of the reason has gotta be a motivation thing and I'm really hoping that improves next season. Part of the players mind's have probably written off this league campaign and I'm not thrilled with that attitude if true. Amorim really needs to get the players back to showing fight for wins in every game. Some of the seemingly disinterested performances in the league are in stark contrast with the EL games, or at least parts of them when we really turn it up a notch.
 
honirelandboy said:
Sancho, Anthony and Rashford are much better than what we have now but there absolute muppets if I can say that who are never going to win you a league title and need to be removed from the club.That’s the first part of the clear out and Amorims job now is to rebuild the attack this summer in the transfer window. I’m not sure how people wouldn’t realise with three attackers gone we would struggle and basically relying on kids. Those three players are better than what we have now.
This summer will be an interesting one and who we will replace them with, I think we all know we need an established CM, CF, AM, WB this summer around the 24 to 26 age to have any hope of competing next season. We have plenty of young players at the moment and need some established players in the squad.
Did I expect Amorim to do better this season, yes! But I’m all for giving him a transfer window and getting the Rot out of the club and getting the players he wants in. This is a long term project, not a short one.
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And plenty said McTominay was only Championship level but he's been a key part in Napoli's title challenge. Those three players you named are certainly good enough to be key parts of title challenges but they only need to be removed from the club for things that have nothing to do with their talents. But that's for a different discussion.
 
Good to see him smiling after Mount’s strike. It must have been a hell for him over last few months, pressure and performance and expectations.
 
stepic said:
He’s easing some of these attacking players back in after injuries. He is quite clearly not a defensive manager, despite all the ‘7 defensive player’ jibes in here. There were people still calling it a ‘defensive back 5’ in the match thread despite Dorgu being our most lethal attacker first half. Illogical.
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Dorgu and lethal attacker in the same sentence? Interesting.
 
roseguy64 said:
And plenty said McTominay was only Championship level but he's been a key part in Napoli's title challenge. Those three players you named are certainly good enough to be key parts of title challenges but they only need to be removed from the club for things that have nothing to do with their talents. But that's for a different discussion.
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Let’s be totally honest though. Those 3 players were given chance, after chance under a number of different managers. They did not step up, especially Rashford. As a leader in any organisation you have to set out your vision and get anyone who’s not 100% on board with it off the bus.
It takes longer but it’s the only way this doesn’t resurface further down the road.
 
Time to see what he's made of now. Got to get these lads up for the Final, some are so young they will be nervous. We CANNOT let Tottenham fecking Hotspur beat us to the trophy and CL footy next year.
 
FriedClams said:
Wonderful subs tonight, we got the best version of Mount and then the two players with arguably the best technique at the club. I know a lot about spanish teams but I hadn't ever heard of one of the bilbao subs. Ultimately, there was a huge gulf in class between the two sides, but what part of this game showed is we still have too many fragile mentalities and I think it stems from almost anticipating mistakes from onana, maguire and lindelof (the latter two had some proper horror moments tonight). If we can keep Shaw fit, then Yoro as the RCB should make maguire be at his best since he isnt panicking about what lindelof might do. We scored two goals after he went off, and almost had a contender for team goal of the season if Amass had just shot, yes the goals killed the game but you can immediately see the difference some genuine quality makes.
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Yeah that's what won us the game. We have enough in the quality in the squad to be challenging for the European places in the league. So it's not a surprise that when it clicks we can quickly play better than other teams.

It's not a squad talent issue. It's just Amorim not able to get it out of them because of mentality issues and he's changed a lot in how we play and it doesn't fit the profiles of too many of the players in the squad. So we end up looking worse than we actually are in the league but we have enough talent to overcome it in Europe.
 
Steve 007 said:
Let’s be totally honest though. Those 3 players were given chance, after chance under a number of different managers. They did not step up, especially Rashford. As a leader in any organisation you have to set out your vision and get anyone who’s not 100% on board with it off the bus.
It takes longer but it’s the only way this doesn’t resurface further down the road.
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I'm just disagreeing with the tag that they aren't good players and they can't be key players in title challenges. It's not black and white. That's all.
 
roseguy64 said:
Yeah that's what won us the game. We have enough in the quality in the squad to be challenging for the European places in the league. So it's not a surprise that when it clicks we can quickly play better than other teams.

It's not a squad talent issue. It's just Amorim not able to get it out of them because of mentality issues and he's changed a lot in how we play and it doesn't fit the profiles of too many of the players in the squad. So we end up looking worse than we actually are in the league but we have enough talent to overcome it in Europe.
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There are still massive issues in the squad. No one wants to look at a team sheet and see Lindelof and Maguire.

Gernacho has great pace and gets in all the right areas but his finishing has been hit and miss and Hojilund has been missing for the whole season.

The difference in Europe is that we know that teams in Europe play at a lower intensity than the premier league, that’s why Anthony has redeemed himself a bit.

Let’s hope this is a Mount redemption and he’s now able to find some form to force his way into the final starting line up and hopefully Amad can do the same.

Top marks to the manager for making those changes last night.
 
It'll be interesting to see how Amorim and his staff decide to manage minutes leading up to the final. Ideally everyone should be capable of completing 90 minutes. Of those in contention to start you'd think Amad, Mount and Shaw aren't ready for that. So those guys will have to start a few games without risking injury unnecessarily.
And then I'm not sure what de Ligt's status is.

At the same time you also want the team you expect to play to get a game or two together to adjust small details in preparation for Spurs.
 
roseguy64 said:
I'm just disagreeing with the tag that they aren't good players and they can't be key players in title challenges. It's not black and white. That's all.
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It’s that old saying ‘the world is full of talented failures’.
Those guys have the ability but their mindset wasn’t on it. I think Anthony had lots of off field issues, accused by ex partners etc..
Rashford thinks he’s good enough to start for Barca.
Sancho who knows but he hasn’t lit up the PL for Chelsea either.
 
Mount (26)
De Ligt (25)
Ugarte (24)
Zirkzee (23)
Amad (22)
Hojlund (22)
Mainoo (20)
Garnacho (20)
Dorgu (20)
Collyer (20)
Yoro (19)
Amass (18)
Kone (18)
Obi (17)

It really doesn’t take much to see that there’s something special brewing at OT. I have such high hopes for this group under a young and exciting coach. Chuck in the experience of Casemiro, Bruno and Maguire and that’s a great mix.

In the summer if we add a small handful of players in their prime (25-27) we will have some team over the next 3-5 years. I genuinely feel like this is the beginning of a great cycle for the club. So many of those players are only just scratching the surface of their potential. Imagine how good the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Dorgu, Amad and Yoro will be in 2-3 years.

People have been so quick to write players off but just look at the ages of some of them. Amongst them some of the most exciting talents in world football. They just need a little more quality and experience around them, and a sensible management of their minutes in most cases.
 
Maureen-yo said:
Just won 7-1 to get to a European final yet you’re still posting miserable jibes at the manager. Great support.
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Because some always want to moan. He's changed a lot since he came in. Been some god awful performances and results but in his defence he did say that united will suffer. They have. Hopefully he wins the europa and hits the ground running next season. If not he will be gone 10 games into the season and round and round we go.
 
Cantona in disguise said:
Because some always want to moan. He's changed a lot since he came in. Been some god awful performances and results but in his defence he did say that united will suffer. They have. Hopefully he wins the europa and hits the ground running next season. If not he will be gone 10 games into the season and round and round we go.
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I think this is silly to just post about moaning. The flip flopping on here about Amorim is hilarious, its ETH all over again. One moment he's awful, wins the FA Cup and there's a massive clamor for him to stay. Much as I enjoyed the last 20 minutes, the fact is the first 70 minutes was one of the most inept displays I have ever seen from a United team, against a fairly average Bilbao missing several of their key players. People say don't talk about 7 defensive players, but directly as a result of that we had no outlets and were unable to progress the ball. At times it looked like we were playing with 10 players or less. Sure Dorgu got forward, but equally the limitations of the wing back system is they are often not real attackers, and he was in nose bleed territory whenever he got near the box. I don't see the fluidity in his system that others claim, sure better players will make us look better but equally better players will make any system look better.

I was really confident we would beat Spurs in final before the game, but after that shambolic period I just don't know. The formation still doesnt suit our squad and its not clear how many players we need to make it work or what an effective midfield would look like. There are still a lot of questions and sure we can enjoy the win and some nice goals, lets be sensible and acknowledge he still has a lot to prove.
 
Gordon'sHill said:
I think this is silly to just post about moaning. The flip flopping on here about Amorim is hilarious, its ETH all over again. One moment he's awful, wins the FA Cup and there's a massive clamor for him to stay. Much as I enjoyed the last 20 minutes, the fact is the first 70 minutes was one of the most inept displays I have ever seen from a United team, against a fairly average Bilbao missing several of their key players. People say don't talk about 7 defensive players, but directly as a result of that we had no outlets and were unable to progress the ball. At times it looked like we were playing with 10 players or less. Sure Dorgu got forward, but equally the limitations of the wing back system is they are often not real attackers, and he was in nose bleed territory whenever he got near the box. I don't see the fluidity in his system that others claim, sure better players will make us look better but equally better players will make any system look better.

I was really confident we would beat Spurs in final before the game, but after that shambolic period I just don't know. The formation still doesnt suit our squad and its not clear how many players we need to make it work or what an effective midfield would look like. There are still a lot of questions and sure we can enjoy the win and some nice goals, lets be sensible and acknowledge he still has a lot to prove.
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I think its quite clear from my post he has a lot to prove. He will be gone if it doesn't improve.
 
Is it simply the difference in the physicality between the PL games and the Europa games? The quality of the opposition makes a difference but it must have something to do with the mentality too. Seems like we have some kind of mental block in the PL as the our record in the two competitions under Amo is diametrically opposite.

In the league: P 24 W 6 D6 L12 GF30 GA39
Win %: 25, Loss %: 50%, Goals scored: 1.25/game, Goals conceded: 1.625/game

In Europa: P10 W8 D2 L0 GF28 GA12
Win %: 80, Loss %: 0%, Goals scored: 2.8/game, Goals conceded: 1.2/game

Not going to talk about the performances as I don't think they have been great in Europe either, but the difference in the results, goals scored and conceded in stark.
 
simonhch said:
Mount (26)
De Ligt (25)
Ugarte (24)
Zirkzee (23)
Amad (22)
Hojlund (22)
Mainoo (20)
Garnacho (20)
Dorgu (20)
Collyer (20)
Yoro (19)
Amass (18)
Kone (18)
Obi (17)

It really doesn’t take much to see that there’s something special brewing at OT. I have such high hopes for this group under a young and exciting coach. Chuck in the experience of Casemiro, Bruno and Maguire and that’s a great mix.

In the summer if we add a small handful of players in their prime (25-27) we will have some team over the next 3-5 years. I genuinely feel like this is the beginning of a great cycle for the club. So many of those players are only just scratching the surface of their potential. Imagine how good the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Dorgu, Amad and Yoro will be in 2-3 years.

People have been so quick to write players off but just look at the ages of some of them. Amongst them some of the most exciting talents in world football. They just need a little more quality and experience around them, and a sensible management of their minutes in most cases.
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:+1: Good start to the day reading that.
 
FriedClams said:
Wonderful subs tonight, we got the best version of Mount and then the two players with arguably the best technique at the club. I know a lot about spanish teams but I hadn't ever heard of one of the bilbao subs. Ultimately, there was a huge gulf in class between the two sides, but what part of this game showed is we still have too many fragile mentalities and I think it stems from almost anticipating mistakes from onana, maguire and lindelof (the latter two had some proper horror moments tonight). If we can keep Shaw fit, then Yoro as the RCB should make maguire be at his best since he isnt panicking about what lindelof might do. We scored two goals after he went off, and almost had a contender for team goal of the season if Amass had just shot, yes the goals killed the game but you can immediately see the difference some genuine quality makes.
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Which will happen when the manager implements new tactics that lead to you getting overrun every game, losing lots of games and then struggling. Said manager surprisingly doesn't lose his job, continues the pattern the next season, inevitably gets sacked 4 months too late. Then his replacement implements completely different formation/tactics and you continue to struggle. It's been a vicious cycle in confidence terms that wont' be easily fixed, it'll take a while for a lot of these players players to get their confidence in themselves and each other back.
 
simonhch said:
Mount (26)
De Ligt (25)
Ugarte (24)
Zirkzee (23)
Amad (22)
Hojlund (22)
Mainoo (20)
Garnacho (20)
Dorgu (20)
Collyer (20)
Yoro (19)
Amass (18)
Kone (18)
Obi (17)

It really doesn’t take much to see that there’s something special brewing at OT. I have such high hopes for this group under a young and exciting coach. Chuck in the experience of Casemiro, Bruno and Maguire and that’s a great mix.

In the summer if we add a small handful of players in their prime (25-27) we will have some team over the next 3-5 years. I genuinely feel like this is the beginning of a great cycle for the club. So many of those players are only just scratching the surface of their potential. Imagine how good the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Dorgu, Amad and Yoro will be in 2-3 years.

People have been so quick to write players off but just look at the ages of some of them. Amongst them some of the most exciting talents in world football. They just need a little more quality and experience around them, and a sensible management of their minutes in most cases.
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Agree entirely. I'm more optimistic than in years. It's not just about success though, it's the way we do it, watching a young team grow and develop is simply thrilling. The United way.
 
My birthday is may 22nd.
Ruben, lads, make my day!
 
simonhch said:
Mount (26)
De Ligt (25)
Ugarte (24)
Zirkzee (23)
Amad (22)
Hojlund (22)
Mainoo (20)
Garnacho (20)
Dorgu (20)
Collyer (20)
Yoro (19)
Amass (18)
Kone (18)
Obi (17)

It really doesn’t take much to see that there’s something special brewing at OT. I have such high hopes for this group under a young and exciting coach. Chuck in the experience of Casemiro, Bruno and Maguire and that’s a great mix.

In the summer if we add a small handful of players in their prime (25-27) we will have some team over the next 3-5 years. I genuinely feel like this is the beginning of a great cycle for the club. So many of those players are only just scratching the surface of their potential. Imagine how good the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Dorgu, Amad and Yoro will be in 2-3 years.

People have been so quick to write players off but just look at the ages of some of them. Amongst them some of the most exciting talents in world football. They just need a little more quality and experience around them, and a sensible management of their minutes in most cases.
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I was thinking the same yesterday whilst watching the game... we have had semi finals at OT under Ole, we have had these big games under Ten Hag but the atmosphere yesterday was different. The build up, the energy around the place is different.

Yes on the pitch its still lacking alot but I cant help but think... we are building something, yes its nothing to shout about right now however; a good summer and I am quite positive.
 
simonhch said:
Mount (26)
De Ligt (25)
Ugarte (24)
Zirkzee (23)
Amad (22)
Hojlund (22)
Mainoo (20)
Garnacho (20)
Dorgu (20)
Collyer (20)
Yoro (19)
Amass (18)
Kone (18)
Obi (17)

It really doesn’t take much to see that there’s something special brewing at OT. I have such high hopes for this group under a young and exciting coach. Chuck in the experience of Casemiro, Bruno and Maguire and that’s a great mix.

In the summer if we add a small handful of players in their prime (25-27) we will have some team over the next 3-5 years. I genuinely feel like this is the beginning of a great cycle for the club. So many of those players are only just scratching the surface of their potential. Imagine how good the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Dorgu, Amad and Yoro will be in 2-3 years.

People have been so quick to write players off but just look at the ages of some of them. Amongst them some of the most exciting talents in world football. They just need a little more quality and experience around them, and a sensible management of their minutes in most cases.
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I’m all for optimism but until Mason Mount shows he can start two matches in a row for us expecting anything from him going forward is delusional despite the good cameo appearance against Bilbao. There are a few players there who are very promising nothing more.
 
Poorly formatted post
I hope we are building something under Amorim but I haven’t seen anything in his tactics to suggest so or give me hope.
There hasn’t been one single moment that I have thought we are actually building something good here.
His tactics in my honest opinion are so negative and playing from such a low block and passing at the back is not united.
Progressive football and passing forward is the way football.
We have been a chaotic for the last few years and have had some wonderful individual moments and that’s what we still are.
We always sit back and counter against the big teams and I’m hoping for something similar in the final and hoping we win.
Even Ange at spurs has adapted from his gun-ho approach so maybe there is hope for Amorim.
You cannot be a one system manager in the premiership as teams will find you out and plan for you.
Football is all about winning and I think if we lose the first 5 games next season he will be gone but I hope he can turn it around.
I don’t understand why some people here are pretending that he hasn’t been poor.
Without the Europa League he will probably have been sacked by now as he does not know how to not lose premiership games.
Football is not just about buying new players, this current set of players should not be in the bottom half of the table and that’s on him.
 
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