I made my post after his showing at LWB in the first leg, and I agree that he'd be class when he's fit again. It's a delicate balance since he's shown in his last several comebacks that he's liable to break down at any moment. I still think Dorgu edges out Shaw for the final, given the pace and power that Spurs would send down their right flank with Porro and Kulusevski (with Yoro as LCB to help cover whoever's at LWB).
23
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 12
- Clean sheets
- 2
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 1
Shaw should warm the bench for the final. If needed give him some minutes but he shouldn't be anywhere near the first 11.
A fit luke Shaw is one of the best players in our team, if he's match fit he plays.
Onana
Mazaroui
Maguire
Yoro
Dorgu (dalot if fit)
Casemiro
Ugarte
Shaw
Amad
Bruno
Anyone
We are doing an England with him!
The intensity against spurs could be an issue.
The intensity against spurs could be an issue.
His composure will be crucial against spurs
If we had Dalot if I'd agree with you, but I think we should be aiming for Shaw on the left and Dorgu on the right - they're the only 2 players we have who can cope with the physicality of this Spurs team, the likes of Amass, Lindelof, or even Mazraoui will be overrun there.
And your eyes tell you he is fit?
I'd put Amad rwb to really boost our press resistance. Amad and Mount down the right wing would have Spurs turned and that's were they're weak.
Shaw is definitely needed lwb for his composure
Yeah I wouldn't start him myself but his quality on the ball could make a big difference in the final 30.
Usually despite all the injuries he still looks physically fast and strong when he is fit. This is the first time he has come back where he has lost some pace. Could just be age but either way.
Usually despite all the injuries he still looks physically fast and strong when he is fit. This is the first time he has come back where he has lost some pace. Could just be age but either way.
Better as a LWB than LCB
It would be really great if he could actually bring himself to maybe shift a few pounds.
It’s crazy to me that people seem to be wanting him to start in the final as a wingback when he clearly doesn’t look match fit and he’ll be up against very fast wingers.
If he gets some minutes against Chelsea and West Ham then maybe there’s an outside chance but he hasn’t been great since he returned.
If he gets some minutes against Chelsea and West Ham then maybe there’s an outside chance but he hasn’t been great since he returned.
Man Utd 0:2 West Ham
New
Dare I ask how he played today and was he better/sharper?
Looks like he might be starting the final at this rate with Yoro’s injury.
Looks like he might be starting the final at this rate with Yoro’s injury.
He's a very mediocre at best LCB, better at LWB. Amass was the one that was stinking it up.
He was fairly good when we were in possession, and got us moving forward both through his passing and carrying the ball up himself. Can't say I really noticed him defensively so not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
And yes, I expect him being subbed off at the same time as Yoro was to protect him since there's a fair chance we'll be relying on him in the final.
Doesn’t sound too bad then. Still worry about him for the final but if the back three is going to be -Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw- I trust him to be the most progressive passer of those players at least. I don’t trust him defensively though.
Slowly finding some match fitness. His positioning seemed better today but wasn’t helped by Amass going haywire.
Mr Shaw hasn't fooled me!
Him being fit all of a sudden isn't random, England have international matches coming up soon, I'm willing to bet he will feature, I will even double down and say he will feature heavily next season(For the first time in years) in order to get a place in the world cup squad
Him being fit all of a sudden isn't random, England have international matches coming up soon, I'm willing to bet he will feature, I will even double down and say he will feature heavily next season(For the first time in years) in order to get a place in the world cup squad
Chelsea 1:0 Man Utd
New
Well done on getting through 70 minutes. Owes us a big performance in the final
Play him LWB, or don't play him at all.
Don't play him at all.
I hope he can play LWB in the final, it would help us a lot with his technical ability and crossing. But i do not think his body will allow him to play that role and he may get injured during that.
Could he start as a left wingback on Wednesday? Not sure but let's see. He has experience in finals.
Shaw as wingback? Seriously?
He would be done after 15 minutes.
Up and down the wing. Need a food truck on his side.
perhaps could last 45 minutes.I hope he's saving himself for Wednesday because that was as uneventful, passive and low effort as it comes down his side.
Best impression of Lindelof as a CB I’ve seen.
He'll get injured next season for 9 months anyway. Might aswell start him left wing back and hope he doesn't break down after 20 minutes. Anything more is a bonus, don't rate him at centre back at all.
Today wasn't a particularly good day for him I agree. But also not a terrible one. He struggles when the opponent picks up speed, Maz also didn't look very solid today. I'd still rather play him at CB than at WB. Not even for 20minutes. Theoretically, he has a lot of good tools for that position, bit like Azpi for Chelsea back then. I don't really want to see Shaw anyways, I think, that chapter should be closed and time should go to players who could really do with it. But we shouldn't put him in a position where we bought a young player for specifically. Especially since that guy needs the minutes.
You know the really frustrating part of arguing whether Maz or Shaw are better suited to WB or CB?... The reality is they are both far better suited to FB.
And they are both really, really good at it.
Just like Bruno is as a solo 10 with a free role
And like Casemiro was at DM when he had a player alongside him in the double pivot.
And like Rashford/Garna were on the left of a 3 behind the 9
And just like Amad would be from the right
And just like most of our CBs would be in a traditional pair.
You know.... Like a couple of year ago when we were top 4 and getting to multiple finals.
I thought ETHs 41----41 with no midfield was the worse thing to ever happen to us. Who knows Amorim's 3421 would be even worse.
Bring back 4231 I say!!!
Fairly simple game for him. Didn’t do much wrong or much of anything really.
I agree. But since FBs aren't existing in a 3-4-3 that option is taken away.
Shaw maybe WAS really really good at it. Maz maybe could be but at the same time - I think both of their attacking output is way too low to be considered "really really good". They are very rounded players and I am pretty sure, having one of them on one side and a more attacking one on the other side would be a great thing to have but we amassed such players and are now wondering why our wingplay is as bad as it is.
Point taken
Doesn't matter, shouldn't play anyways since not the future of the team. And even if we forget that, every defensive player looks better when paired with more defenders. Thats not a feature, thats comes with the game.
Garnacho has played under Amorim more or less 100% as he played before. Rashford isn't gone because he isn't working in this formation but because his attitude is shit.
Sure sure, Especially as apparently there is no "right side" in a 3-4-3 where he could play
You need to stretch more and more do you notice? So they manage to look unconvincing in a 3 but in a 2 they would definitely be better? I mean, we know most of them from 2s so... I don't think, that speaks for your point.
Long time ago. And even with the top fours and finals, our team was basically never really deemed to have a shot at things. So whatever glorious you want to paint the past for yourself, there wasn't much actual glory to be happy about. And since those times were mostly influenced by individual moments, I think, your attempt to have another go at "the formation" falls a little short.
Sure, because 4-2-3-1 stops Hojlund from being a very out-of-form striker, makes our midfielders more mobile, more organised, stronger and rounder in their skillsets.
But I guess, we all know that this is a discussion that happens in another thread.
Fair point... I appreciate that I am banging the same drum, but it's where is see the biggest problems across all areas.I agree. But since FBs aren't existing in a 3-4-3 that option is taken away.
Shaw maybe WAS really really good at it. Maz maybe could be but at the same time - I think both of their attacking output is way too low to be considered "really really good". They are very rounded players and I am pretty sure, having one of them on one side and a more attacking one on the other side would be a great thing to have but we amassed such players and are now wondering why our wingplay is as bad as it is.
Point taken
Doesn't matter, shouldn't play anyways since not the future of the team. And even if we forget that, every defensive player looks better when paired with more defenders. Thats not a feature, thats comes with the game.
Garnacho has played under Amorim more or less 100% as he played before. Rashford isn't gone because he isn't working in this formation but because his attitude is shit.
Sure sure, Especially as apparently there is no "right side" in a 3-4-3 where he could play
You need to stretch more and more do you notice? So they manage to look unconvincing in a 3 but in a 2 they would definitely be better? I mean, we know most of them from 2s so... I don't think, that speaks for your point.
Long time ago. And even with the top fours and finals, our team was basically never really deemed to have a shot at things. So whatever glorious you want to paint the past for yourself, there wasn't much actual glory to be happy about. And since those times were mostly influenced by individual moments, I think, your attempt to have another go at "the formation" falls a little short.
Sure, because 4-2-3-1 stops Hojlund from being a very out-of-form striker, makes our midfielders more mobile, more organised, stronger and rounder in their skillsets.
But I guess, we all know that this is a discussion that happens in another thread.
The thing I struggle with is that for some reason me believing that returning to a style that has proved successful with this group of players, even in the few times it was deployed over the last two horrible seasons (City cup final, Ruuds games, etc) is some crazy, backwards step that will never allow us to kick on....
Whereas the opposing belief that ripping everything up to try and further implement a style that has been nothing but awful, for a manager who has done nothing but lose other than a cup run massively benefited by red cards and miracle comebacks, and whose only credentials are winning in a league of the quality of the championship is some sort of logical, data driven argument.
There are no good arguments for backing the current plans other than "I like the guy, and I am willing to roll the dice on next year on nothing more than blind faith."
Take a day off
This place is a pit of vipers. Good luck on Wednesday Luke Shaw
I totally understand that. Just fyi - I personally wasn't a fan of bringing in Amorim because I thought, for all the obvious challenges this team is facing, adding a formation switch on top is only adding to the issues. But we did bring him in and I see the whole issue more that we need a style of play - the specific style would be 2nd priority right now. But we are missing a common direction for ages at this point. Your approach is understandable, but when you are able to see how our cup run was heavily influenced by moments (I'd agree with that) then you can't deny that the good days in the past were influenced by moments as well. It is difficult, to make strong cases for one or the other based on that. Which is why I'd stick to the course we are on right now, since that the course we are following for a while now. Bringing in a new manager will mean a different course. Again with a bedding in period. And if we are now trigger happy as we are, who says that we won't be dissatisfied enough with the next guy in a years time...
I agree. I think, both sides of the arguments build a lot on hope though, not just one. One side simply hopes that Amorim will be able to turn it around with a good window and a functional preseason, the other side hopes that we will bring in another guy who is just as well in need for a good window and a functional preseason. I can see, why people think "ok, 16th is shit, lets dial it at least back to being 10th shit and then go from there, at least thats better than being 16th shit". But as somebody pointed out - our league position last year was already an overachievement.
I don't think, our squad is relegation material. But at the same time, it isn't really much better than most of the league. And when you add questionable attitude and workrate and constant injuries and being lower league material when it comes to intensity, then results are in critical danger no matter who the guy in the dugout is.
Sorry for derailing the thread, we should continue this line of thought in the appropriate thread
He's growing into this team a little bit. He was getting his work done quietly and under the radar last night, which means he's finding his feet in this back 3. We need a fit LS on Wednesday night if you ask me and I'd start him as LCB based on his last few appearances.
I actually feel he offers a good outlet as LWB too but clearly going to struggle with the pace of the Spurs attack. I think we will sit quite deep on Wednesday and it will suit him.
I actually feel he offers a good outlet as LWB too but clearly going to struggle with the pace of the Spurs attack. I think we will sit quite deep on Wednesday and it will suit him.
Yes exactly.