Rubbish. Last season Carrick played the holding role. And played it very well.Hargreaves isn't competing with Carrick for a spot on the team. Carricks competition is from guys like Lampard and Gerrard.
If you think making a joke about the Nazis is racism you are confused. Racism, as I've said before is defined thus:
rac·ism (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Now you explain how I fit into one or both of those categories.
Your argument that anyone who uses the Nazis in humour is a racist is laughable. I posted the Monty Python Hilter sketch to illustrate the absurdity of your argument.
Defensive midfielder
DEFENSIVE midfielder
surely they are in the team with an eye to being responsible to stopping the conceded goals?
what's the point of them otherwise?
they can't attack but they aren't responsible for defending either?
what an awesome job description.
chief, sam#1 is saying... HARGRAEVES SHOULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER THAN LETTING ADEBAYOR RUN FREE
his defensive midfielder instincts should have meant he would have anticipated that danger and stayed with him.
Fact is there is noone else near adebayor at that stage (nor is there another arsenal player close to hargraeves), so in that situation it WAS hargraeves' job to mark him.
If you are playing a game of football and you are a midfielder and you are tracking back and find yourself marking a striker, do you juts let them run off as 'it's a defenders job to mark a striker?'
no. To do that is as silly as expecting strict adherence to a formation where players don't ever interchange positions.
is that so hard to understand?
Apparently yes, it is.
it would seem that this bit of the argument may have been won!You wouldn't think so, would you ?
The argument was won about 80 pages back.it would seem that this bit of the argument may have been won!
which is a good thing since it shows that IK/chief are listening rather than just dismissing
Ready your breakfast and eat hearty, for tonight we dine in Hell !Only three people left in the bunker denying that the Red Army are at their door.
The argument was won about 80 pages back.
Only three people left in the bunker denying that the Red Army are at their door.
Ooops I've done it again.
Ready your breakfast and eat hearty, for tonight we dine in Hell !
What is hard to understand is you claiming trying to now assign equal blame to when back then when you posted Hargreaves was the one you marked with the lions share of blame.Yes, he played a big part. He wasn't the only one, so did Vidic and Brown.
They all played big parts in Adebayor scoring.
It's really not that hard to understand.
That day the caf wont be available. remember the announcement.what's the over/under on this thread reaching 105 pages the day after the scousers game?
Monty Python my arse. You are fooling no one. You clearly mentioned Hitler Himself. Hence your comparing of trivial things like support for a footballer to being like Hitler shows a blatant disregard of what Hitler was and represented to people like the Jews. In short you don't think it important at all what he was to them. So you can joke about it. Meaning you most likely think them sub human. Because what happened to them for you is something to joke about. You do the math and place yourself in your description list appropriately. I don't need to.Answer the question.
Monty Python my arse. You are fooling no one. You clearly mentioned Hitler Himself. Hence your comparing of trivial things like support for a footballer to being like Hitler shows a blatant disregard of what Hitler was and represented to people like the Jews. In short you don't think it important at all what he was to them. So you can joke about it. Meaning you most likely think them sub human. Because what happened to them for you is something to joke about. You do the math and place yourself in your description list appropriately. I don't need to.
No Chief, that's Jim Royle...Monty Python my arse.
No. There in the team to win the ball in midfield, launch counter attacks, disrupt the oppositions play and shield the defence from attacking midfielders runs. Stopping goals is the defence and keeper's jobDEFENSIVE midfielder
surely they are in the team with an eye to being responsible to stopping the conceded goals?
Which is blaming him for what wasn't his job. Besides, the main essence of his point was Hargreaves cost us the goal. Which is grossly in accuratechief, sam#1 is saying... HARGRAEVES SHOULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER THAN LETTING ADEBAYOR RUN FREE
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:...Hargreaves was watching for the path of the cross that was to come from Eboue. Which was the right thing to do. Adebayor was never his man but Vidic's. When Adebayor run past, Hargreaves rightly followed him AND the ball he was initially tracking. Rio and Vidic were best placed to see Adebayor's run but Rio was watching for the cross, then had to cover Edwin when he rushed out to the ball. Mean while what cost us the goal was as Van De Sar went for the same ball with Hargreaves, knocking it to Sagna, who cut it back, that cut both Van der sar and Hargreaves out of the equation, Vidic was ball watching, picking up no one, while Wes Brown the best placed person to stop Fabregas, who was clearly unmarked just ball watched. It was basically Brown's fault we conceeded that first goal. Not Hargreaves'.
See what I posted abovehis defensive midfielder instincts should have meant he would have anticipated that danger and stayed with him.
Fact is there is noone else near adebayor at that stage (nor is there another arsenal player close to hargraeves), so in that situation it WAS hargraeves' job to mark him.
Such a job doesn't exist on a football pitch. Players either have defensive or attacking roles. Some times both.what an awesome job description.
It isn't. But that never happened in the Arsenal game in dispute. Hargreaves was doing his job, yet people expected him to at the same time do Vidic's job too.If you are playing a game of football and you are a midfielder and you are tracking back and find yourself marking a striker, do you juts let them run off as 'it's a defenders job to mark a striker?'
no. To do that is as silly as expecting strict adherence to a formation where players don't ever interchange positions.
is that so hard to understand?
That was absolutely brilliant. Pity they didn't make more of them
You really are making yourself look stupid.
The Monty Python team dressed up as Hitler and Himmler. John Cleese did the Hitler impression in Fawlty Towers. Father Ted was seen standing at a window looking like Adolph Hitler.
Are all these racist? Do all these comedians think Jews are subhuman?
If I were to joke, for example, that my wife was once again cooking with her Nazi recipies, y’know, chicken Himmler, would that mean I was racist and thought the Jews were subhuman?
If you'd played football competitively you'd know that type of excuse rarely cuts with your manager. Hargreaves didn't track his man when danger developed and as a result Arsenal scored. And this in one of the very few games that you claim he was actually any good.It isn't. But that never happened in the Arsenal game in dispute. Hargreaves was doing his job, yet people expected him to at the same time do Vidic's job too.
If you had ever played football in your life you would know the manager would have come down on Vidic and Brown like a ton of bricks for ball watching and no one else. There ball watching and failure to do there job is what causes the problem in the first place. There are no two ways about it. Adebayor is not Hargreaves' man. That is why Hargreaves initially is watching for the flight of the potentially dangerous cross from Eboue, as Adebayor sneaks past. No manager worth his salt would dare give Hargreaves trouble when he even tracked back to try and rectify the situation, which was Vidic not doing his job. While the man fault, Vidic, was still AWOL till we conceeded.If you'd played football competitively you'd know that type of excuse rarely cuts with your manager. Hargreaves didn't track his man when danger developed and as a result Arsenal scored. And this in one of the very few games that you claim he was actually any good.
Rather you have shown just how thoughtless and crass you are. Those comedians made fun of Hitler. Just like if you came out with that Himmler thing, you'd be making fun of Himmler.
You really are making yourself look stupid.
The Monty Python team dressed up as Hitler and Himmler. John Cleese did the Hitler impression in Fawlty Towers. Father Ted was seen standing at a window looking like Adolph Hitler.
Are all these racist? Do all these comedians think Jews are subhuman?
If I were to joke, for example, that my wife was once again cooking with her Nazi recipies, y’know, chicken Himmler, would that mean I was racist and thought the Jews were subhuman?
No Chief, that's Jim Royle...
You're right. Fabregas was Hargreaves man....If you had ever played football in your life you would know the manager would have come down on Vidic and Brown like a ton of bricks for ball watching and no one else. There ball watching and failure to do there job is what causes the problem in the first place. There are no two ways about it. Adebayor is not Hargreaves' man. That is why Hargreaves initially is watching for the flight of the potentially dangerous cross from Eboue, as Adebayor sneaks past. No manager worth his salt would dare give Hargreaves trouble when he even tracked back to try and rectify the situation, which was Vidic not doing his job. While the man fault, Vidic, was still AWOL till we conceeded.
Yet Hargreaves had been drawn into covering Vidic. So it's his fault he couldn't track Adebayor and Fabregas at the same time. Because he couldn't be in two places at the same time. Right?You're right. Fabregas was Hargreaves man....
I have no question of yours to answer. You asked a question that didn't deserve an answer. Just a rod for your back. For being stupid enough to ask it. When the answer was before your eyes already.I see you're still ignoring my questions Chief. Why would that be?
No I was using your twisted logic that Adebayor wasn't his man so shouldn't have been tracking him. That's the defence's job after all.Yet Hargreaves had been drawn into covering Vidic. So it's his fault he couldn't track Adebayor and Fabregas at the same time. Because he couldn't be in two places at the same time. Right?
The response of an extremely childish man. You won't answer it because you can't. Keep trying to dig your way out of the hole. Try digging up, it might work.I have no question of yours to answer. You asked a question that didn't deserve an answer. Just a rod for your back. For being stupid enough to ask it. When the answer was before your eyes already.
rather it's you being childish. I am under no obligation to answer any question you ask. It under my digression as to whether I bother or I don't. Your question was fecking stupid. You can even post it again and again. That fact wont change.The response of an extremely childish man. You won't answer it because you can't. Keep trying to dig your way out of the hole. Try digging up, it might work.
It also won't change the fact that you can't answer it. The same way you couldn't prove the massive contribution Hargreaves played in the group stage, or United winning at Valencia and Celtic, or even Bordeaux's UEFA cup win. Not to mention failing to find that quote for me about strikers being paid to score goals.rather it's you being childish. I am udner no obligation to answer any question you ask. It under my disgression as to whether I bother or I don't. Your question was fecking stupid. You can even post it again and again. That fact wont change.
Rather you were suing your own logic. The logic that led you to believe I said only defenders and the keeper defend. The same logic that tells you because Hargreaves goes after Adebayor, it suddenly becomes his job to have been marking him all along. .No I was using your twisted logic that Adebayor wasn't his man so shouldn't have been tracking him. That's the defence's job after all.
No you're not. You're instead pointing out yours. Your post above on applies if I had said defender and the keeper are the only ones who defend. I instead I said the responsibility for stopping goals is theirs alone. Wes Brown's failure to get the ball before Fabregas, proved it all the more. Without that error. There wouldn't have been an Arsenal goal. Without Vidic being AWOL, Adebayor's run would never have been dangerous. And no one would be discussing how Hargreaves allegedly "Let go his man"Had he stuck with 'his' man. He would've stopped the goal. I'm not saying that's what he should've done, he was right to track the player he thought was the danger. I'm just pointing out your flawed logic which has got you into a hole you can't get out off. Cue the feck off you idiot response.....
I can answer it alright. You just seem so desperate for an answer. Like your life will endIt also won't change the fact that you can't answer it. The same way you couldn't prove the massive contribution Hargreaves played in the group stage, or United winning at Valencia and Celtic, or even Bordeaux's UEFA cup win. Not to mention failing to find that quote for me about strikers being paid to score goals.
This is a load.Rubbish. Last season Carrick played the holding role. And played it very well.
The season before Carrick joined we were well short in both the PL and the CL.
Last season Carrick (along with Scholesy's return) is the only change to the team. Carrick moves into the defensive midfield role previously filled by Smudger (another in the Hargreaves mould of running around after the ball and throwing himself into tackles but actually being unable to read the game at all) or JOS and, lo-and-behold, United win the League and but for a decimation of their back 4 by injury in the semi vs Milan would have seen us in the Champions League final. 48 appesarances (same as Rio and only fewer than Rooney and Ronaldo) and only 4 goals (not the mark of an attacking midfielder - that role was taken by Scholes).
But anyway, that is irrelevant. This thread is about Hargreaves, and the fact that those 'supporting' Hargreaves have resorted to trying to deconstruct Michael Carrick, or go on about how great Hargreaves was for Bayern, illustrates just how bad things have got. If Hargreaves had been any good for United you'd be focussing on his performances for us this season. But of course, if they'd been any good we would't even be having this discussion.
Show me where I said that then.Rather you were suing your own logic. The logic that led you to believe I said only defenders and the keeper defend. The same logic that tells you because Hargreaves goes after Adebayor, it suddenly becomes his job to have been marking him all along.
No you're not. You're instead pointing out yours. Your post above on applies if I had said defender and the keeper are the only ones who defend. I instead I said the responsibility for stopping goals is theirs alone. Wes Brown's failure to get the ball before Fabregas, proved it all the more. Without that error. There wouldn't have been an Arsenal goal. Without Vidic being AWOL, Adebayor's run would never have been dangerous. And no one would be discussing how Hargreaves allegedly "Let go his man"
It's roughly a page back, you're a big boy I'm sure you can find it. Not what was that you were saying about being childish?I can answer it alright. You just seem so desperate for an answer. Like your life will end
if you don't get it. Then when I excercise my God given right whether to answer your bullshit or not. That according yo your warped sense of logic means I cant answer you If you are a man. I dare you to re- Post it. Then lets see If I really can't answer it like you claim. Else you are a chicken and yellow.
Really........
Last season Carrick (along with Scholesy's return) is the only change to the team. .........
Chief, correlation = causation.Really
1 The return to form of Ryan Giggs
2. Saha becoming a designated starter from the season's begining
3. Ronaldo's coming of age
4. Evra and Vidic settling down
5. Rio and Vidic partnership
Where not changes to the team?