You've missed all the fun not having read this: https://www.redcafe.net/f7/revealed...-his-manchester-city-press-conference-258828/
And he rejected Real
- Thread starter anver
- Start date
...sure he did...
Napolean complex
"EX United player gets slagged off on Redcafe" Schocker
He wasn't a United player, he was a Kia Joorabchian player
Just a quick question...
Where, in the actual quoted remarks, as opposed to the sensationalist editorial making the headline, does Tevez say HE turned down Real in favour of City?
Absolutely nowhere - and if you weren't all so hell-bent on thinking the worst of this player at least a small number of posters would be pointing out that all Tevez said was:
"Real made an offer but there was no agreement,"
... as would have been the case if (like with Alonso) Real were trying to be more circumspect in obtaining some value for money.
We have no idea if they offered an acceptable amount to Tevez's owners.
It took Utd many months to eventually cough up something that meant they referred to their 'property' to see if personal terms and intention meant it would go ahead. No indication here that Real even got that far.
Grow up guys.
Where, in the actual quoted remarks, as opposed to the sensationalist editorial making the headline, does Tevez say HE turned down Real in favour of City?
Absolutely nowhere - and if you weren't all so hell-bent on thinking the worst of this player at least a small number of posters would be pointing out that all Tevez said was:
"Real made an offer but there was no agreement,"
... as would have been the case if (like with Alonso) Real were trying to be more circumspect in obtaining some value for money.
We have no idea if they offered an acceptable amount to Tevez's owners.
It took Utd many months to eventually cough up something that meant they referred to their 'property' to see if personal terms and intention meant it would go ahead. No indication here that Real even got that far.
Grow up guys.
Even they weren't offering £150K a week more like.
The point is that the story doesn't even indicate that he was given any input into the decision.
Why, for example, should Tevez's owners accept (say) 10m less to allow Tevez to go to Real for the glamour & trophies (or whatever everyone wants to say makes them a more fit destination than City). There have always been 2 decisions here - the purchase price for the owners - and the club, & its personal T&C for the player and the agent.
In what bizarre fecking parallel universe does a footballer have no say in the next club he plays for, leaving it entirely up to whomever holds his registration to punt him round until they can raise a pre-determined sum of money?
There' me thinking everyone realised the slavery comments were in jest? Turns out FS actually believes that human beings can still be bought and sold like cattle.
There' me thinking everyone realised the slavery comments were in jest? Turns out FS actually believes that human beings can still be bought and sold like cattle.
He could have gone to Real, he could have stayed at Man Utd, there are no valid football reasons for wanting to go to City. £££££.
Come off it Pogue...
If you and certain others didn't have such capital invested in portraying this player in a certain light you'd be laughing at the media exaggeration on this story.
Where, oh where, is there any indication that Real made a viable offer worthy of reasonable consideration? Where does it say when, over the possible period under discussion, the over was made and whether it was not withdrawn by Real later (eg once they'd got Ronaldo)?
The story that this is Tevez turning down a viable Real offer at the time he chose City is full of holes - anyone should see this.
The only reason you want it to be true is because it seems to back up the 'it's all about money - Utd did nothing stupid/wrong' line you want to spin.
A player certainly has some say in his destination club - but saying that would over-ride a significant decrease in purchase price is overly simplistic. How much leverage they have would vary according to circumstances - yet it certainly wouldn't just be up to the player's whim with no consideration as to compensation.
Actually - this very line was being pumped out by folks when they wanted to say City could never have a chance of winning something.
Now they are adopting the 'he'll get kept out of the team' approach now their original points are looking less sound.
Perhaps both pre-conceptions didn't appear to Tevez as cast-iron certainties - and Real never produced a viable bid (no indication in this article that they did after all) - so why not? given he felt staying was untenable.
There is no indication in the article that he could have (realistically) signed for Real.
Spot on Pogue. And there are many example of situations where a player is not willing to move to a particular club, even though they're offering more to your current employer, and so they accept a lesser offer from another club. Ronaldinho and Kaka are good examples, both having turned City down, both moving to clubs for far less money, and yet the club they leave behind still make the deal, because the option they're faced with is an unhappy player in their own squad, and missing out on what is still a very good monetary deal for them, albeit not the most they could have made had the players wishes been otherwise. And these are situations where the club owns the player. Of course the player is going to have the major say in the deal Tevez had, and it's up to his owners to then get the best deal possible for him according to his wishes
Feedings problem as always is that he's going to take the article out of context from the normal ways and laws of football, and analyse it to within an inch of its life, to the point its so twisted and distorted it doesn't have any meaning anyway, with a prejudice to whatever his view was coming into his 'analysis', which usually, conveniently, is whatever the 'opposing' current view is, especially if it's opposed to the supporters he takes a particular dislike to, which on here is passionate supporters who question the integrity of their own or former players
Actually, you and Pogue are taking the article 'out of context from the normal ways and laws of football' because the content of the quotes doesn't show there was any viable bid from Real - normally you'd be all over such a mistake.
There is no indication that Kia et al found themselves in anything like the situation that Ronaldinho's and Kaka's 'owners' did at that stage in the offering club's progression. (There probably wasn't anything like as serious an 'alternative' 'offer' either.)
What situation do you think was the case when the supposed 'rejection' of Real by Tevez took place btw? That City could never get anywhere during Tevez's tenure - or that he would have too much competition to get enough games? If neither of these applied then why would he necessarily reject a move to City that hs owners preferred?
Ronaldinho and Kaka were sufficiently unhappy about moves in the past to potentially cost their clubs money - though Kaka (eg.) gave his club another year before moving on. That happened not to be the case for Tevez in very different circumstances IF any viable offer was actually on the table.
http://www.dirtytackle.net/2009/07/man-city-stick-it-to-united-with-billboards/#more-8287
like tevez still? he can feck off
like tevez still? he can feck off
My point is about fans desperate to believe the most tenuous of exaggerations in order to paint Tevez in the worst possible light - not whether there may not be other reasons to dislike his conjunction with City.
Note the actual opening topic of the thread, for example, and try to explain how your post adequately relates to it.
This is old news.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5327195,00.html
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5327195,00.html
Kia claimed that Tevez recieved an offer from Real months ago and this was backed up by Real at the time.
It can't be anything to do with that - it must have been just about money - don't you know that?
Actually FS I've never even commented on the veracity of the article in question, or the situation of Tevez, in fact I've deliberately not done, because I know you'd automatically pigeon hole me into the point of view you'd like me to fit in to so you could argue with me, which is precisely what you've done
I merely agree with Pogues statement that players have a say in where they play. Of course they do. It's not like it used to be. It's not the be all and end all, if the club (or in this case owners) play hardball, there's nothing the player can do
You can bet your life though, should Tevez had wanted to play for Real, and his owners not allowed it because they weren't willing to pay enough, we'd have heard an enormous racket from the player about it. In the end the player wanted to stay in England, and make the most money he could possibly make, even if that was at the expense of professional pride and ambition. And that's precisely the choice he made, and the amount offered for him satisfied his owners. Bingo
Obviously, I mean who wouldn't want to uproot their toddler and family and move to a new country and start a new life.It can't be anything to do with that - it must have been just about money - don't you know that?
This would be the daughter that he uprooted from Argentina to Brazil. Then from Brazil to England, and then again from London to Manchester would it?Obviously, I mean who wouldn't want to uproot their toddler and family and move to a new country and start a new life.
Good old family values Carlos. Never mind he was with another woman when his child was born, he went back to her and yet subsequently cheated on her while he was playing for us
At some point, you'll stop blowing smoke up his arse where it aint due. Your delusions of objectivity have no credibility whatsoever, we've all seen how you've been with Tevez throughout this
It's not so much whether the content of the article is true - more whether the headline reflects it - and how more perceptive posters here would normally react to that combination.
Instead of agreeing that the article doesn't really show that Tevez was ever in a situation to reject a specific offer (as you probably would for most other players) you use it as a launching pad for the view you want to promote that Tevez's decision was just about money, even though the grounds for this providing evidence for your case is laughable. It's the desperate use of the most tenuous indication of possible circumstance that I find disturbing.
Normally you'd discount the idea that this piece showed Tevez had anything viable to reject - yet instead you use it as putative grounds to put him in a comparable situation to players who did eventually have alternative viable offers to accept. Nothing here suggests Tevez had Real as a viable alternative - yet you bang on about other players holding out for better clubs as if the article was gospel.
You haven't commented on the headline's veracity - you've just treated it as true to help tarnish Tevez's image (and arguably he doesn't need your help in that regard.)Players have some influence (and at certain stages of their contracts quite a lot) - but it's still a balance between benefits and losses for the owners in light of the player's wishes. Having some influence doesn't mean the players dictate what happens according to their whim - nor dies it indicate that players mke decisions for the reasonsyou'd like to assume.
Brad his daughter is 4 years old. Are you seriously saying it isn't more disruptive to move countries when you are 4 as to when you are 1?
I mean seriously! He has been in England for 3 years. That is the majority of her life. She will speak spanish and English, but she will be settled her. When she moved to England it won't of affected her one bit!
I don't care whether the guy has had affairs. I suppose you have some sort of proof of this? Either way that has nothing to do with uprooting his kid, who has spent a big part of her life here and considers this country her home.
Good stuff FS, I can expose another trait of yours. You now have me pigeon holed as someone who hates Tevez with passion, has always been against him, and this has given me the excuse to have a public pop at him (I'm speculating here, but I think it's because you think English football supporters, particular the type of support you think I am, are inherently racist against foreign players)
And yet read this forums, and you'd have seen I've been passionately defending Tevez, especially as it happens with Pogue who has been pretty much on the other side of this debate throughout. What's changed has been Tevez's off the field behaviour. That's what's changed for the vast majority of United supporters. That's why he's gone from the last day of the season having supporters interrupting Fergie's speech to chant 'sign him up', to the situation come derby day where he's gunna get all manner of vitriol in his direction, right or wrong. But yet again, shockingly, you're above all this and everyone else is misunderstanding the truth as you distort it. And yet again no one but the most bias bum boy (Marchi and Striker in the case of Ronaldo, Tevez's Mum and opposition supporters in the case of Tevez) are agreeing with you
And here's the ultimate read on you FS. Even though you know I'm spot on these last couple of posts, you don't come here to debate. You come here to lecture. And so this post is in fact entirely wasted, because you don't read it with an open mind. You'll read what you want it to say as always, and you'll continue to make spurious points which bore everyone else to tears
You've become too predictable, even a stupid git like me knows the drill by now
Yes, I forgot you spoke to Carlos and he told you all these things... oh no wait you're making it up on his behalf, silly me
Think of the horror of uprooting her to Madrid, where she'd have to speak... the one fecking language her father can speak!!!
Besides which, you use this as a reason why he choose to play for City, and not for monetary reasons. Even though other English clubs, not willing to pay as much, but willing to give him greater professional fulfilment i.e play in the Champions League this season leading into a World Cup, namely Chelsea and MANCHESTER fecking UNITED, and he turned them down. And took the buck. Fair enough. No ones stopping him, he can do as he wishes given his contract situation. But we'll judge him on it, and we'll put our point of view across on football forums. And when you're acting as his P. R. agent and personal sex assistant, we'll damn well call you up on it
In your imagination only Brad.
I'm certainly categorising you as someone who wants to have a go at him now - because he's rejected you and pissed you off by going to City. I have made no claim or implication about your earlier attitudes.
I am also pointing out that you not only fail to point out that the article does not justify the headlines, but that you also want to pretend the headline is true to make false comparisons to different situations experienced by other players - in order to make (what must therefore amount to unjustified) further neagtive remarks about Tevez.
That's it really - the rest is all in your head - which makes the (excised) bulk of your post rather redundant..
There are many reasonable reasons to dislike Tevez to some degree (though only the 'jeer at Fergie' one has provoked any ire from me) - so there is no need for folks to manufacture additional fuel for hatred in the ludicrous, and false way, they (inc yourself) are doing.
Actually it's not in my head, and most will be nodding reading that knowing exactly what I'm on about. If they've bothered to read it because it's yet another dull as ditch water Brad vs FS debateIn your imagination only Brad.
I'm certainly categorising you as someone who wants to have a go at him now - because he's rejected you and pissed you off by going to City. I have made no claim or implication about your earlier attitudes.
I am also pointing out that you not only fail to point out that the article does not justify the headlines, but that you also want to pretend the headline is true to make false comparisons to different situations experienced by other players - in order to make (what must therefore amount to unjustified) further neagtive remarks about Tevez.
That's it really - the rest is all in your head - which makes the (excised) bulk of your post rather redundant..
There are many reasonable reasons to dislike Tevez to some degree (though only the 'jeer at Fergie' one has provoked any ire from me) - so there is no need for folks to manufacture additional fuel for hatred in the ludicrous, and false way, they (inc yourself) are doing.
But this is where I've learnt. There's zero point 'debating' with you, because you come in with a fixed point of view, and you're not interesting in having an open mind and perhaps changing it if you hear good arguments to the contrary, instead you'll try and twist and manipulate and dig yourself a hole
So I won't debate with you. I'm out. I'll let some other mug fall for it
You clearly don't have a clue, and aren't worth arguing with mainly because you don't listen to any reason!
He blatently said he didn't want to uproot his child who was currently learning English. She has been here since she was 1. So I think she will be learning Engish as her main language, and will be learning spanish at home. She will be settled in a school most probably as well.
My sister had a child 2 years ago, she had the child in England and then a few months later moved to the Philippines. Now the child was unfazed and really benefited from it, because she learned the language there and English with her parents. She is currently here on a 2 month vacation in England. Moving here to live for 2 months has clearly unsettled her, not only does she miss the people she has left behind, but where she used to speak English a lot in the Philippines she now only speaks tagalog here and very little English. So I think I do have some understanding of what I am talking about Brad.
For Tevez, moving his child now at this stage would unsettle her a lot more than she ever would of been previously.
So you once again come in with a set of unsubtantiated remarks about my having some 'bias' against you or your opinion - and when I point out that there is no such bias and suggest you might wish to spell out where I have exhibited it, you just refuse to discuss it further and re-iterate your misconceptions.
Here's a simple question...
Where have I suggested that you '[have] always been against [Tevez], and this has given me the excuse to have a public pop at him (I'm speculating here, but I think it's because you think English football supporters, particular the type of support you think I am, are inherently racist against foreign players)'? Can you produce any evidence?
Or is it just in your head Brad?
As I said: I'm certainly categorising you as someone who wants to have a go at him now - because he's rejected you and pissed you off by going to City. I have made no claim or implication about your earlier attitudes.
When addressing how people 'twist and manipulate' things...
...how come you fail to address the way in which you want to accept the reality of a viable offer from Real, on virtually no evidence at all, when normally you'd be all over the error? Especially since that has been my main theme in this thread?
For someone who knows what they're on about, you don't seem to realise how the English education system works. Settled into school at the age of 4? Typically children don't start school until the age of 5 here, perhaps having attending nursery school prior to that. In Tevez's situation, I don't know the facts but it's entirely possible she's on private tuition anyway
It was lovely reading about your sister, but what did that have to do with Carlos? Did you tell him that story and he made his decision based off that or something?
I don't discount that family reasons player a role in where he wanted to be. If City hadn't made an offer, would he have stayed at United for family reasons? Hardly likely given what's been said, is it. What I discount is the idea that Tevez picked City because of reasons other than money. That is the all consuming reason, because there are no other reasons that make any semblance of logical sense. Even if he didn't want to uproot his kid to another country, he could have player for a club in the Champions League in this country. And given much of his complaining about not being first choice at United, it's a bit fecking rich moving to the club with more strikers than anyone else right now
So what, 'that has been said', would have made it difficult for him to stay at Utd when we made the eventual offer?
Are you acknowledging that breakdown of relations with SAF and the club, were a significant reason for rejecting Utd?
The story of my sister is to get it through your thick skull that moving a child at such an age can cause them to be unsettled. I thought the story went well. All fact of course. If Tevez was to move his child I can't see the tutor moving with them, on top of that I think its more likely she will be in some private nursery or something like that. I don't think he would of stayed if City didn't make an offer, I think he left because he was upset with the club. But who do you think he could of gone to realistically? Who do you think really wanted him in England other than City?
I mean Liverpool said they weren't making any big signings, Arsenal's director said they have no money and Chelsea don't really need another striker (with Drogba, Kalou, Anelka) he would barely play. But if he couldn't go to City then he would of been forced to move abroad, unless he could sort his differences out with United.
Look I am not saying money played no part. But I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that there were obviously other factors that would of influenced him aswell. He would be a big fish in a small pond, he wouldn't have to move his family, he could still keep in contact with mates from United, he would start a large number of City's games.
'have'
What FS is trying to do is to move the focus away from the trend of the thread.
We have seen many allegations made by this prat against United officials during the past two weeks. The thrust of my thread was to highlight his latest interview. So the title starts with an 'And'. Which suggests that there have been many more things he had said before this.
I dont think United fans care much if a player leaves because he is getting more money elsewhere. Mention may be made; but it is not an obsession.
One of the main reasons Ronaldo left was because of the money. His 'dream' was just an excuse. Tevez, too, left because of the money. His allegation that he was not sure of his future at Utd was just an excuse. It is well known, now, that Fergie had made him an offer in January.
What Tevez did after leaving is what rankles in the minds of United supporters.
Ronaldo has acted in a very dignified manner. Beckam and Ruud, too, left under very distressing circumstances. But they kept all their differences to themselves. Even Heinze was not at all vocal. But this prat has been having a free for all. He gives press interviews at the fall of a hat.
Await his return. I am sure he will give another interview where he slates Fergie. FS and Kia's Ho will have field day, lapping up their hero's words.
We have seen many allegations made by this prat against United officials during the past two weeks. The thrust of my thread was to highlight his latest interview. So the title starts with an 'And'. Which suggests that there have been many more things he had said before this.
I dont think United fans care much if a player leaves because he is getting more money elsewhere. Mention may be made; but it is not an obsession.
One of the main reasons Ronaldo left was because of the money. His 'dream' was just an excuse. Tevez, too, left because of the money. His allegation that he was not sure of his future at Utd was just an excuse. It is well known, now, that Fergie had made him an offer in January.
What Tevez did after leaving is what rankles in the minds of United supporters.
Ronaldo has acted in a very dignified manner. Beckam and Ruud, too, left under very distressing circumstances. But they kept all their differences to themselves. Even Heinze was not at all vocal. But this prat has been having a free for all. He gives press interviews at the fall of a hat.
Await his return. I am sure he will give another interview where he slates Fergie. FS and Kia's Ho will have field day, lapping up their hero's words.
the fact that he went after saf after 54 appearances is the end all be all, 54 fecking appearances. Give me a fecking break! first off he plays internationals for argentina i dont know how that affected his games, he also skipped town on the opener for himself no matter fair enough, but come 54 appearances players of his quality would die to get that at a top club. I just hope M Owen stays healthy next year because he will be more productive whine less and do more.
One major difference between Tevez and C Ronaldo; Tevez was a primadonna, Ronaldo was a Maradona
One major difference between Tevez and C Ronaldo; Tevez was a primadonna, Ronaldo was a Maradona
well said
Are we still debating this?
by we I mean TM and FS, and when I say debating a mean going around in fcuking circles...
by we I mean TM and FS, and when I say debating a mean going around in fcuking circles...
I can not even remember what we are even debating anymore