In which case, how are we going to stop/minimise the gegenpress? Liverpool are very good at it
FA Premier League
Liverpool 0:0 Manchester United
Anfield
- Kick-off
- Mon, 17 October 2016 @ 8:00pm BST
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Discussion Your Lineup Prediction
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No, they defended better than them in our last game. There's no way Liverpool's defence and keeper are going to keep out as many shots and chances as Stoke somehow managed to. It was a freak defensive performance.What exactly is gegendepressing, what does the word mean and why not just call it pressing?
So, they conceded many chances and we were vey unlucky not to beat them but they put in a freak defensive performance. Doesn't make any sense.
Wow this post says it all really.
It means "counter press" roughly, which basically means it's a way of stopping counter attacks. It's main function though is to win the ball up high while the other team are pushing forward, leaving space and holes in the opponents midfield/defence.
The question is in the last 15 years (why limit it to 15?) how many time have United gone to Anfield, not played well but still managed to win?
I struggle to remember any game between the two clubs that could be classed as 'great'.I think the animosity is so great it mitigates against entertaining football.
Off the top of my head I would have to go back to the 3-3 at Anfield in 94 for the last great game.The drawn and replayed cup semis in 85 were great games other than that its been a case of great when we win and horrible when we lose, the result is all.
In a nutshell, it's basically high intensity running and pressing with a high line across the pitch and fast counter-attacking on the break. This is an example of Klopp's Gegenpressing during his Dortmund days:
Spielverlagerung provides great insights into gegenpressing, including a proper definition (as Jürgen Klopp would define it). The key element is to win the ball back immediately after it was lost via a structured, coordinated team effort.
Many more details about gegenpressing and its variations can be found here:
http://spielverlagerung.com/2014/10/07/counter-or-gegenpressing/I can see Jose pulling off a tactical masterclass of soaking up pressure and hitting them on the counter. It's his first real test since City he will be determined not to get it so wrong as if we lose this then there could be repercussions.
IMO, he will get it wrong if he decides to play in this way. What worked vs Brendan in 2015 will harldy work now. We don't even have the players for counter attacks. Ibra and Mata/Rooney aren't the quickest players. Hopefully you are right though.
I certainly hope so. Mourinho is known to be a big game manager as he has an amazing record in the big games. Doesn't he have a great record against Liverpool as well? I remember he always take the piss out of them. If he loses this game, it would just reinforce my belief that he has lost his aura because losing to City and Liverpool, our two biggest rivals doesn't bode well. I couldn't give a toss about losing to City though. I'd rather we lose 1-6 to City again but beat Liverpool home and away. This is why I could still tolerate Van Gaal even though he had us playing so crap because he does well in the big games and if I remember correctly, he has a 100% record against Liverpool in the league.Last edited:LVG tried to use fellaini in the #10 and go long to miss the press out. We did it well against other opposition a few times in that way and so it can clearly work. What we didn’t do at Anfield was get players around him. He easily got dispossessed and Schneiderlin wasn’t interested in getting on the ball.
We have the direct option having Zlatan up top. I think / hope we’ll stick with Herrera, Pogba and Mata. All comfortable on the ball it only takes a quick interchange to beat the press then your 5 on 4 breaking forward.
I am predicting a huge game for Pogba. He has immense ability in beating players. I can see him gliding past one or two and driving forward. We need pace either flank. If it was Monday coming I would guess that Martial would take Rashfords place. Looked a bit off it on Sunday Rashford. No big deal, its only to be expected. I think Martial will start wide left anyway. They have an obvious weakness at left back so hopefully we pick the right player to exploit that be it Rashford, Jesse or Miki. Its such as same we haven’t seen much of Miki, from what I know, if he was firing he’d be the ideal man to expose them down our right.
We've taken 4 points from 4 games and this includes a game against the worst team in the league.
Now we will face one of the most in-form teams in the league.
We are not being negative...just realistic.
Or four points from two games, to make a less melodramatic selection.
It does if you use the thing between your ears. Their last-ditch defending and goalkeeping were superb, a one-off compared to their form so far this season. Even with that, we were still probably unfortunate not to get another goal or two.
Play defensively; play negative football and stop them playing. Mourinho did this against B.Rogers' LFC.
The worst thing you can do is try and play LFC, using a style that LFC are best at.
Put it another way: MUFC using gegenpressing vs LFC using gegenpressing - we will lose, simply because LFC are better at it.
I'd be quite happy if put 10 men behind the ball and stole a goal in the last minute, from a long ball (DDG to Ibra).Staying compact in our own half is the way to go. Gegenpress all over the pitch will be a problem. Passes to Ibra who will be used as a target man will have to be fairly accurate, midfielders and flank players will have lot of work to do. Very interested to see whether Mou will play Wayne. Think he will go for Miki with Pog and Ander next to him. Rash on the right, Martial on the left, Ibra up top.Fellaini will play! And he'll be good.If I was Mourinho, I'd play:
--------------De Gea-------------
Valencia--Smalling-Bailly--Shaw
--------Blind----Schneiderlin----
--------------Pogba--------------
-Rashford----Zlatan------Martial
Mkhi would be a good selection in this type of game if he were in form but I wouldn't just throw him into the fire. IMO, Herrera is not a good fit for this type of game, or at least my preferred tactics, which would ask the CMs to be positionally disciplined and focus on their defensive duties.
Instead of trying to play it out of the back, I'd play long balls to Zlatan and trust that my surrounding trio of Pogba, Rashford, Martial would be quick enough to get to the second ball and then make something happen off unsettled situations. Or I'd just look for very quick outlet passes to the front four in counter-attacking situations. Defensively, I'd play a deep line, invite Liverpool to apply pressure, and then look to break quickly, having Zlatan drop back as the guy to often receive the outlet ball and then have him looking to play Rashford or Martial behind the defense.
IMO, if you try to play a stylish, possession-oriented game with Mata and Herrera in midfield you will get hammered. The basic reality is that you're not good enough at that game to hang with teams like City or Liverpool that are playing that style much more cohesively and fluently right now. If you frustrate them and stay patient with an emphasis on scoring on the break, off unsettled situations after long balls, and on set pieces, you can grab a couple goals and win 2-1 or something like that.Last edited:Martial Zlatan RashfordConcede possession and counter. Classic Mourinho tactics.
Pogba Schneiderlin
Herrera
Blind Smalling Bailly Valencia
deGea
I'd want to see this, but Schneiderlin has never really showed up.
For them yes.
Bollocks!
We were outplayed for a spell by the best team (so far) in the league, we made adjustments and changed the game, should have had a penalty too.
Fair enough we had a bad day at Watford but thats football.How many Liverpool players would get into our team? Personally I might take Clyne and Coutinho but thats it.
Besides we all know the form book goes out the window when we play Liverpool.
Last-ditch defending and goalkeeping constitute only a part of a good defence. The more important part is to stop the opposition from creating chances in the first place. Even if one agrees that Stoke's last-ditch defending was freakish (which it wasn't, let us not pretend that their defenders were like Rio and Vida or their keeper like Neuer), their overall defence was anything but solid. There is a reason why they have conceded more goals than any team so far (bar WHam).
This is a rubbish argument. Football is not played on paper. Only 3-4 Atleti players would start for Barca or Real or Bayern but as a team they are about the same level as them. It's a game of teams, not of rosters of players. You should have learned more from Leicester winning the league last season. Before the start of the season, no Leicester player would have made the first XI of any top team in England. But they played better football than any top team. Because a team is much more than a roster of footballers.
He'd be perfect for this kind of game. He's got Pogba for making key passes and Herrera collecting the ball and distributing forwards, he needs to do his thing of running around and tracking players on counters.I'd want to see this, but Schneiderlin has never really showed up.
Like others I think parking the bus and hitting long balls to Zlatan with Rashford and Martial running the channels could do the trick. Liverpool's pressing and counterpressing is best nullified by getting as many bodies behind the ball as possible at all times. Especially their counterpressing is only useful as long as they have space to play into. If United try to build from the back with short passing it could get ugly. United's midfield is simply not on the level of Barca or Bayern in that regard and even those teams have it quite hard at times to move the ball fast enough against sides that are pressing them well. The best chances to score should present themselves when Liverpool try to counterpress and fail at it, because they'll have to commit at least 4 players to the counterpress, which makes them vulnerable. Klopp usually utilizes the fullbacks very high up the pitch so opportunities for United's wingers to exploit the space on either flank should present themselves. For that to result in goalscoring chances it's essential for the first ball to be played accurately and since it's to be expected that the player supposed to play that pass will be pressed intensely that player should be fast on the turn and be able to move the ball on quickly. With that Fellaini, Carrick or Rooney should be nowhere near the starting 11 in that game and Schneiderlin (who turned to shit apparently), too. I'd go with a Herrera, Mata, Pogba midfield with Pogba playing as a #10 to pick up balls won by Zlatan. He can then go for the finish himself or make use of the pacey players on the flanks, with Herrera and Mata covering for him.
--------------------De Gea--------------------
Valencia--------Bailly---------Blind--------Shaw
-----------Mata------------Herrera-------------
Rashford----------Pogba-----------------Martial
--------------------Zlatan---------------------
Maybe you are right but Swansea were good vs Liverpool exactly when they pressed them and did not sit back, that is, in the first half. Similarly, Chelsea were good when they started to attack and press them. When they were sitting back, they conceded 2 goals. When both Swansea and Chelsea tried to use the tactics you describe Liverpool had no problems to control the game and were all over them.
You may have a point but Arsenal went at Liverpool and were destroyed. The Swansea game was just 45 minutes of discomfort and they couldn't keep it up as they were blown out by 60 minutes.
But that's my point.
We are weary of Anfield because we don't usually play well there and they usually raise their game for us.
However we would still take a scrappy win.
United are supposed to be better than Swansea and should not be tired already by 60 min.
I really don't believe that sitting back is the right tactics for United but maybe I'm wrong.
Thanks mateThis one is going to be tough for United... @ArmandTamzarian that's the PES game we keep playing online! LOL.I am excited to see what each team do to the other's defense. aye some good matches there! We've been playing pretty well, I tend to run on the notion that form goes out the window for these games though I just don't know what to expect.
Mate, you can't use comparisons like this. If we were to go by this logic, then Leicester should have never won the league last season. It's widely acknowledged that Liverpool has already adapted to Klopp's style and they have great team chemistry and are the most in-form team in the league whereas Mourinho has admitted that most of our players are still trapped in Van Gaal's style.
Come on, give credit to the dippers. They went to City and Chelsea away and got maximum points while getting a point at Spurs, which they could have won as well and City got dominated by Spurs. Honestly, I can't see us beating them, we will be lucky to get even a point, especially not at Anfield.Got a sneaky feeling we're going to batter 'em. 4-1 with Ibra grabbing a hatrick.
Dippers won't know what hit 'em.
And you're basing your opinion on the fact that he's Fellaini? Coz under LVG he was good against Livershite- Status
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 565 ratings.
Score Predictions
372,338,176
- Man Utd win
- Liverpool win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 19% Liverpool 1:2 Man Utd
- 10% Liverpool 3:1 Man Utd
- 9% Liverpool 2:1 Man Utd
- 9% Liverpool 1:1 Man Utd
- 8% Liverpool 2:2 Man Utd
- 7% Liverpool 2:0 Man Utd
- 6% Liverpool 0:1 Man Utd
- 5% Liverpool 3:0 Man Utd
- 5% Liverpool 1:3 Man Utd
- 4% Liverpool 0:2 Man Utd
- 3% Liverpool 2:3 Man Utd
- 3% Liverpool 0:0 Man Utd
- 2% Liverpool 0:3 Man Utd
- 2% Liverpool 5:0 Man Utd
- 1% Liverpool 0:5 Man Utd
- 1% Liverpool 3:2 Man Utd
- 1% Liverpool 4:1 Man Utd
- 1% Liverpool 4:0 Man Utd
- 1% Liverpool 2:4 Man Utd
- 1% Liverpool 1:0 Man Utd
- 1% Liverpool 1:4 Man Utd
- 1% Liverpool 1:5 Man Utd
- 0% Liverpool 5:1 Man Utd
- 0% Liverpool 4:5 Man Utd
- 0% Liverpool 3:3 Man Utd
- 0% Liverpool 4:2 Man Utd
- 0% Liverpool 0:4 Man Utd
- 0% Liverpool 4:3 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Liverpool
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 65% 35%
- Shots
- 9 7
- Shots on Target
- 3 1
- Corners
- 3 1
- Fouls
- 14 20
Referee
Anthony Taylor
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Luke Shaw
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replaced by Wayne Rooney
