Manchester United 1:2 Arsenal

stretford_oslo · Mar 9, 2015

Peter de Laat said:
First match?

More like 12th ish so don't worry

Roboc7 · Mar 9, 2015

The Purist said:
As an Arsenal fan, yeah. We were very lucky that day to the extent the game was almost torturous. Not sure how there is any debate that United were lucky in 1999. Of course you were. We missed a last minute penalty and you were totally outplayed in the CL final on a day where I can't believe you didn't concede more.

If you take into account the quality of individual players then the Arsenal Invincibles team were the best ever in the English top flight within anyone's living memory.This is supported by the Invincibles achievement.

As for this game, if we show up at anything near our best we will win. The only problem is we normally don't tend to do that.

Convenient how everyone always forgets that there never should have even been a semi final replay as Roy Keane had a perfectly good goal ruled out in the orginal tie. Utd were also unbeaten in Europe in 99, won 3 trophies and lost less games in all competitions than the invincibles did. Going unbeaten was obviously an impressive achievement but I think Utd and Chelsea have both produced better teams.

You rarely win anything without luck, Pires diving against Portsmouth and RVN hitting the crossbar with a penalty could easily have gone the other way and Arsenal would never have gone unbeaten.

Desert Eagle · Mar 9, 2015

stretford_oslo said:
On my way to the airport en route to Manchester, we've never lost with me in the stands so i got a feeling this will go well

Can't wait!

Sounds great mate!! Have yourself a great evening

Roosney · Mar 9, 2015

Sammyjunn said:
My brother is a die hard gunner, this is going to be awkward.

My elder son is a gunner, luckily he is half my size so I should be ok.[/tasteless jokes]

Siorac said:
I sort of miss them though, the rivalry has no edge to it anymore

This. Although I'm quite excited about tonights match I feel the rivalry is long gone.

Northstand · Mar 9, 2015

The Purist said:
As an Arsenal fan, yeah. We were very lucky that day to the extent the game was almost torturous. Not sure how there is any debate that United were lucky in 1999. Of course you were. We missed a last minute penalty and you were totally outplayed in the CL final on a day where I can't believe you didn't concede more.

If you take into account the quality of individual players then the Arsenal Invincibles team were the best ever in the English top flight within anyone's living memory.This is supported by the Invincibles achievement.

As for this game, if we show up at anything near our best we will win. The only problem is we normally don't tend to do that.

You seem to have forgotten that United had a perfectly good goal (scored by Giggs, I think) disallowed in the first game at Villa Park, so you were "lucky" to even contest a replay.

Regarding the second bolded bit, that's actually quite laughable. Following United's treble in '99, they finished 18 points ahead of Arsenal the following season and ten points ahead again in 2001. A few years later Chelsea walked successive titles with over 90 points each time. Whilst remaining undefeated throughout a season is remarkable, it should be viewed in context - as others have said, Arsenal didn't win another title with that team, they failed badly in Europe, and they were beaten in both the FA and League Cups.

Gee Male · Mar 9, 2015

Peter de Laat said:
De Gea
Valencia Smalling Rojo Shaw
Carrick Blind
Januzaj Di Maria Young
Rooney

Di Maria has been at his best at the centre. We need to get him at his best again. I also want to see more pace up front, especially against Arsenal. Carrick and Blind can control and distribute. Januzaj and Young keeping the field wide.

I'd go with something like this also, the only question mark would be whether to go with Herrera instead of either Januzaj or Di Maria. I do like the thought of Di Maria down the middle against Arsenal, stretching their midfield at pace, but I'm not sure if we'd be sound enough defensively with both him and Januzaj.

I expect the team to be very similar to the above.

Red_Aaron · Mar 9, 2015

Northstand said:
You seem to have forgotten that United had a perfectly good goal (scored by Giggs, I think) disallowed in the first game at Villa Park, so you were "lucky" to even contest a replay.

think it was keane who scored, still no idea why it was ruled out, but hey alls well that ends well

gooner fans and there invicible bollocks always crack me up, they lost 5 times that season and picked up one pot (still a great acheivement mind)
but compared to 98-99 where united lost 4 games and picked up 3 pots its not even in the same league

Chaky_Best · Mar 9, 2015

We have the opportunities to break them on counter and we have the player able to hurt them

I just hope that LVG will field a good team tonight, able to cope with their speed, close the space in central midfield where their player all play. I would like to field Fellaini / Carrick / Blind, in order to control the tempo, and slow it, and outmuscle them in this area.

I'm afraid we will revert to a more cautious 3-5-2 tonight.

NERVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stretford_oslo · Mar 9, 2015

Desert Eagle said:
Sounds great mate!! Have yourself a great evening

Thx bro

NessunDorma · Mar 9, 2015

There was a guy who used to play five-a-side with us when we were teenagers. He took it proper seriously, and just before the game was about kick off, he'd shout things like 'COME ON LADS, LET'S F*CK 'EM!!!'.

And we all be like 'Hmm. Well, can't we just beat them at a game of football, and then go home, if it's all the same to you?'.

But his shouts were meant to be inspirational, and that's kind of how I feel right now. Like the guy who shouts mad things to cultivate an atmosphere of determination and will to win.

Really, really want to see us get the victory here.

Maldini's Hair · Mar 9, 2015

Arsenal are the only top team I never get nervous about playing. Even Moyes' United managed to get the better of them. Bring em' on!

---------------DDG------------
Valencia--Smalling--Rojo--Shaw
---Herrera---Blind---Fellaini----
Di Maria------------------Young
------------Rooney------------

Desert Eagle · Mar 9, 2015

NessunDorma said:
There was a guy who used to play five-a-side with us when we were teenagers. He took it proper seriously, and just before the game was about kick off, he'd shout things like 'COME ON LADS, LET'S F*CK 'EM!!!'.

And we all be like 'Hmm. Well, can't we just beat them at a game of football, and then go home, if it's all the same to you?'.

But his shouts were meant to be inspirational, and that's kind of how I feel right now. Like the guy who shouts mad things to cultivate an atmosphere of determination and will to win.

Really, really want to see us get the victory here.

I know exactly what you mean. I've been suppressing a few choice words myself today. It's the best part of the football fan experience. The nervous tension, leading up to a game, where you're fully invested in the result and hopefully culminating in beating the feck out of Arsenal.

SirAF · Mar 9, 2015

Roboc7 said:
Convenient how everyone always forgets that there never should have even been a semi final replay as Roy Keane had a perfectly good goal ruled out in the orginal tie. Utd were also unbeaten in Europe in 99, won 3 trophies and lost less games in all competitions than the invincibles did. Going unbeaten was obviously an impressive achievement but I think Utd and Chelsea have both produced better teams.

You rarely win anything without luck, Pires diving against Portsmouth and RVN hitting the crossbar with a penalty could easily have gone the other way and Arsenal would never have gone unbeaten.

Yeah, that goes pretty much without saying.

SirAF · Mar 9, 2015

Krovv · Mar 9, 2015

Siorac said:
Forlán won the penalty, not RvN.

And Keown, Lauren, Parlour, Cole and co. demonstrated that day that they were some of the biggest cnuts ever seen in English football. It was vile. That Arsenal side were a hateful bunch of utter twats.

I sort of miss them though, the rivalry has no edge to it anymore

Yeah the entire lot (including the United team) were a bunch of twats. But you know, as long as they're in your team you love them. These days players swap shirts and hug the guy who stamps on them. It's beyond ridiculous.

ipodnani · Mar 9, 2015

Krovv said:
Yeah the entire lot (including the United team) were a bunch of twats. But you know, as long as they're in your team you love them. These days players swap shirts and hug the guy who stamps on them. It's beyond ridiculous.

You mean Andre Santos does? Not necessarily having a direct go at Wenger but it's hard to imagine players at many clubs feeling they could get away with swapping shirts at halftime.

Something clearly dropped away from Arsenal's winning mentality after the so-called "Invincibles" (who were draw-experts, let's be honest.) Granted, Arsenal had the stadium to pay for, but Wenger has to take some responsibility for precipitating a squad acceptance of relatively regular thrashings and enabling the type of mediocrity which is demonstrable by their winning of one title in nine years...

Bocca9978 · Mar 9, 2015

Siorac said:
Forlán won the penalty, not RvN.

And Keown, Lauren, Parlour, Cole and co. demonstrated that day that they were some of the biggest cnuts ever seen in English football. It was vile. That Arsenal side were a hateful bunch of utter twats.

I sort of miss them though, the rivalry has no edge to it anymore

I was at that game. Atmosphere was fecking immense! Hope it is tonight.
If it had been the other way around United would have been punished far greater IMO.

Krovv · Mar 9, 2015

The Invincibles were indeed the best league side England has ever seen. Say what you want about it, but none could beat them in the league, which is a spectacular achievement. There was a bit of luck involved, sure but the fact that no other team managed it over a 38-game season shows how difficult it is.

Also feck Chelsea. They were a great side but they also had the advantage of being one of the first to be backed by unlimited cash. In that respect they did benefit from having a top manager who knew exactly the kind of players he wanted to buy and a market that had only one club with loads of cash in the bag. The fact that even with such favourable circumstances they couldn't win the title unbeaten shows how big an achievement it is.

For those saying Arsenal couldn't replicate it and hence they weren't a great side, you need a bit of context. We won the league in 2001-02 and were on course for the title in 02-03. We completely blew the chance to do it on the trot that year and the players have often spoken about how much they wanted to win the league because they knew they were the better side. That entire group stayed on for the following season, with the addition of mad Jens (Lehmann) and Reyes in January, and proved that they were the best side in England at the time. It speaks volumes about their mentality that they remained unbeaten throughout. That's in spite of Chelsea buying some big players (Crespo, etc) and having one of the best United sides as rivals.

That Arsenal team peaked in 03-04 and from then our era of austerity began because the club had sanctioned the new stadium. Chelsea's takeover was well-timed and credit to them for capitalising on our lack of financial power in the seasons to come. I still feel the Invincibles were broken apart too soon but that is ancient history now. What doesn't change is the fact that it was indeed a brilliant achievement and will be increasingly hard to equal in the years to come. Chelsea could have done it in 04-05, but I don't think any other team in the PL era was anywhere near being invincible.

Gee Male · Mar 9, 2015

What sort of reception will Welbeck get tonight?

Applauded? Booed? Indifferent?

I would be guessing at indifferent. He is one of our own but never really amounted to much here, and jumped ship in a somewhat sideways move as soon as it looked like his game time would be restricted. I'm going for indifferent.

Krovv · Mar 9, 2015

ipodnani said:
You mean Andre Santos does? Not necessarily having a direct go at Wenger but it's hard to imagine players at many clubs feeling they could get away with swapping shirts at halftime.

Not just that, but stuff like Liverpool players being all paly with morons like Costa in the League Cup semi and the pack of rabid wolves that comprise Chelsea's playing XI.

imperi · Mar 9, 2015

Roosney said:
This. Although I'm quite excited about tonights match I feel the rivalry is long gone.

I have the same feeling. Probably due to the commercialization of football. Now that cash is king, there simply is less and less room for homegrown and born players and staff, it all has to be bigger and better in the global perspective. Players nowadays play for more clubs in their career, coaches getting sacked after 2 bad results, in the EPL most coaches aren't even British and the same goes for the players. No wonder rivalry is dissappearing on the field when most people on the field do not have any ties to club or country. You just play for the club that is willing to pay the most. I am not condemning it, I am no hypocrite as most of us would most likely choose money over a job. Especially with the huge wages that are being paid now, being financially independent for a lifetime with one signature. There is no room anymore for romanticism in football, it is all about the money.

Gee Male · Mar 9, 2015

Krovv said:
The Invincibles were indeed the best league side England has ever seen. Say what you want about it, but none could beat them in the league, which is a spectacular achievement. There was a bit of luck involved, sure but the fact that no other team managed it over a 38-game season shows how difficult it is.

Also feck Chelsea. They were a great side but they also had the advantage of being one of the first to be backed by unlimited cash. In that respect they did benefit from having a top manager who knew exactly the kind of players he wanted to buy and a market that had only one club with loads of cash in the bag. The fact that even with such favourable circumstances they couldn't win the title unbeaten shows how big an achievement it is.

For those saying Arsenal couldn't replicate it and hence they weren't a great side, you need a bit of context. We won the league in 2001-02 and were on course for the title in 02-03. We completely blew the chance to do it on the trot that year and the players have often spoken about how much they wanted to win the league because they knew they were the better side. That entire group stayed on for the following season, with the addition of mad Jens (Lehmann) and Reyes in January, and proved that they were the best side in England at the time. It speaks volumes about their mentality that they remained unbeaten throughout. That's in spite of Chelsea buying some big players (Crespo, etc) and having one of the best United sides as rivals.

That Arsenal team peaked in 03-04 and from then our era of austerity began because the club had sanctioned the new stadium. Chelsea's takeover was well-timed and credit to them for capitalising on our lack of financial power in the seasons to come. I still feel the Invincibles were broken apart too soon but that is ancient history now. What doesn't change is the fact that it was indeed a brilliant achievement and will be increasingly hard to equal in the years to come. Chelsea could have done it in 04-05, but I don't think any other team in the PL era was anywhere near being invincible.

I'm sorry, but there is no way I'm accepting that, or that anyone outside Arsenal fans would accept it.

For me, it's impossible to call a side 'the best league side England has ever seen' when they had one good season, and even then only in one competition. That's nonsense.

Liverpool won 7 out of the 9 championships between '76 and '84 and probably had a couple of teams better than Arsenal's '04 team during that time. I couldn't be bothered looking at how many FA Cups and European Cups they won in that time - I'm not into sadomasochism.

United of '99 was better than Arsenal of '04, achieved way more.

United winning three in a row between '07 and '09, while winning one CL and getting to another final, and in a period that both Liverpool and Chelsea got to CL finals (showing the strength of the league) was a greater side than Arsenal in '04.

Even in the midst of a very subjective conversation, the claim that the Invincibles were 'the best league side England has ever seen' is objective nonsense.

Chaky_Best · Mar 9, 2015

United 99' or Arsenal 04' I just think that we will struggle tonight against an in form team with an impressive away form recently, when we are playing shit since November

Krovv · Mar 9, 2015

Chaky_Best said:
I just think that we will struggle tonight against an in form team with an impressive away form recently, when we are playing shit since November

I think you lot will either win or this will go to a replay. Can't see us winning tonight. Playing "shit" or not, your team is very hard to beat.

Reddevilboy · Mar 9, 2015

Most important game of our season. We need to win this. I'm pretty sure if we win this match, this will give the squad a big boost of morale ahead of our run-in and we will go on to finish in the top four.

SiRed · Mar 9, 2015

Krovv said:
The Invincibles were indeed the best league side England has ever seen. Say what you want about it, but none could beat them in the league, which is a spectacular achievement. There was a bit of luck involved, sure but the fact that no other team managed it over a 38-game season shows how difficult it is.

Also feck Chelsea. They were a great side but they also had the advantage of being one of the first to be backed by unlimited cash. In that respect they did benefit from having a top manager who knew exactly the kind of players he wanted to buy and a market that had only one club with loads of cash in the bag. The fact that even with such favourable circumstances they couldn't win the title unbeaten shows how big an achievement it is.

For those saying Arsenal couldn't replicate it and hence they weren't a great side, you need a bit of context. We won the league in 2001-02 and were on course for the title in 02-03. We completely blew the chance to do it on the trot that year and the players have often spoken about how much they wanted to win the league because they knew they were the better side. That entire group stayed on for the following season, with the addition of mad Jens (Lehmann) and Reyes in January, and proved that they were the best side in England at the time. It speaks volumes about their mentality that they remained unbeaten throughout. That's in spite of Chelsea buying some big players (Crespo, etc) and having one of the best United sides as rivals.

That Arsenal team peaked in 03-04 and from then our era of austerity began because the club had sanctioned the new stadium. Chelsea's takeover was well-timed and credit to them for capitalising on our lack of financial power in the seasons to come. I still feel the Invincibles were broken apart too soon but that is ancient history now. What doesn't change is the fact that it was indeed a brilliant achievement and will be increasingly hard to equal in the years to come. Chelsea could have done it in 04-05, but I don't think any other team in the PL era was anywhere near being invincible.

I would argue (strongly) that the Chelsea side of 04-05 were a lot better than the Arsenal invincibles

imperi · Mar 9, 2015

SiRed said:
I would argue (strongly) that the Chelsea side of 04-05 were a lot better than the Arsenal invincibles

If you did argue that, I'd agree.

chicha14 · Mar 9, 2015

I recall reading in Gary Neville's book that he believes the invincibles weren't the best Arsenal team he had faced. I think he said the (02?) side were a a much better team than the invincibles.

The Law of Denis · Mar 9, 2015

Evening kickoffs on a Monday should be illegal.

FlawlessThaw · Mar 9, 2015

Pretty sure Krovv's on a wind up

SonnyTheHaloPro · Mar 9, 2015

Not going to lie, last time I was this exited for a match was against Real Madrid in 2013. Gutted I wont be able to attend the game tonight.

Chaky_Best · Mar 9, 2015

It’s true that if we manage to beat even unconvincely Arsenal tonight, it’s going to be a big boost for the rest of the season and another big game next Sunday against Spurs at home. It can be the victory to say “We are here despite all of you say, we can beat teams of the Big Four, and the second best team in England in 2015”.

We have the weapons to hurt them, to win this game, at home, to go to Wembley and been one step from the final, and make our end of season even more exciting. I’m just afraid of the level of our players and I’m not sure if they can be up for the fight tonight.

Shark · Mar 9, 2015

The Law of Denis said:
Evening kickoffs on a Monday should be illegal.

I don't understand why they couldn't have just put it on the Sunday. Instead we had to watch a 0-0 borefest between Liverpool and Blackburn.

Randall Flagg · Mar 9, 2015

SiRed said:
I would argue (strongly) that the Chelsea side of 04-05 were a lot better than the Arsenal invincibles

Utd have had better sides too. And the fact Arsenal never retained really points towards them not being that great at all

djembatheking · Mar 9, 2015

stretford_oslo said:
On my way to the airport en route to Manchester, we've never lost with me in the stands so i got a feeling this will go well

Can't wait!

Have a good one mate and hopefully keep being a lucky mascot .

Browniee · Mar 9, 2015

Score draw for me. Think they'll score first with us coming back I the 2nd half. Rooney to be motm

matt23 · Mar 9, 2015

I was so confident until today, nerves have hit me for some reason.

Browniee · Mar 9, 2015

So wish Liverpool went out last night

Reddevilboy · Mar 9, 2015

Chaky_Best said:
It’s true that if we manage to beat even unconvincely Arsenal tonight, it’s going to be a big boost for the rest of the season and another big game next Sunday against Spurs at home. It can be the victory to say “We are here despite all of you say, we can beat teams of the Big Four, and the second best team in England in 2015”.

We have the weapons to hurt them, to win this game, at home, to go to Wembley and been one step from the final, and make our end of season even more exciting. I’m just afraid of the level of our players and I’m not sure if they can be up for the fight tonight.

This all day long. Agreed, I always have the feeling that our current batch of players are just not as mentally strong. We will see tonight though. I'm really hoping they prove me wrong.

BootsyCollins · Mar 9, 2015

I think Rooney will win this for us.

3-1 with Di Maria and Rooney x2

Hope to see :
------------------DeGea-----------------
Valencia-----Jones--Smalling------Rojo
-----------Carrick--Blind----------------
Januzaj---------Mata-----------Di Maria
-----------------Rooney-----------------

Herrera, Wilson and Shaw(if fit enough for the bench) as subs

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