Stoke City 1:1 Manchester United

bosnian_red · Jan 1, 2015

MTR said:
I guess I watched different match.

Two guys I've given the smallest ratings are the ones who got the most votes for MotM.

Falcao and Smalling.

Why on earth would they get the smallest ratings? Were by far our best players

Jerch · Jan 1, 2015

CM21 said:
Which is why Burnley and Leicester have won here.

Nobody wanted Falcao to be subbed over RVP.Falcao was tired but RVP was not?RVP has played full 90 mins for last 3 games now.
Also why sub Shaw if you don't have a back-up wing back ? Why not shift Young to LWB after the sub where he plays better?

The only reason the result is not bad is because the performance as completely rubbish much like your post.

TBH we draw at Burnley and lost against Leicester so maybe they are the better team and that is why they won at Britannia.

Sarcasm off Stoke won against Arsenal, Newcastle, West Brom, Swansea and draw against West Ham at home. They lost just 4 at home, the two you mentioned and against Chelsea and Aston Villa (they were in really good form at the start of the season).
And they even won against City and Tottenham away this season so this is not team which should be underestimated.

A lot of people wanted to see Januzaj and Herrera coming on.

Scroll a little this thread and you will see how many people were saying that Falcao is playing bad and he should be changed and Rooney moved uptop. And Herrera played very well.

This is first game back for Shaw so this is why LVG changed him. He is not ready for the 90 min yet. And LVG wanted to go for the win and gave the opportunity to Januzaj to show what he can do it. A lot people here wanted that. And don't worry to much, he will probably not get another opportunity for a long time.

Must i defend Ashley for Rafael sub to?

This is not bad result because it is not bad result. And we played bad because Stoke didn't let us play good.

MTR · Jan 1, 2015

bosnian_red said:
Why on earth would they get the smallest ratings? Were by far our best players

Falcao was shit for 60 minutes (and scored goal, nothing more).

Smalling was by far our worst defender.

Stoke's goal is 60% Smalling and 40% Jones.

MrMancunianRed · Jan 1, 2015

Shit game. Shit performance and players are tending to either backpass or play safe or layoff passing. We are lacking in tempo for attack build up. This is fecking Zombie football.

Our attack is so fecking predictable. Ignoring all other possession game our attack in almost every game recently is this.
Backpass end up ball at Degea
Degea -> CB->Young ->cross-> Hope it find someone
CB->CB->CB->CB->Degea->CB->rooney/mata->layoff to other or pass side-wise to wing-> cross or long ball to where we are outnumbered.
That's it. We don't have any other.

I like English league but they absolutely milk from dead cows too. Stupid FA to play 4 games in 10 days without concerning player safety. Weather is at its best shitty way to make game unplayable. Reasons like these and "transistion period" are good to hear and cannot dodge bullets always using that.

I dont know why our players deserve/get big paychecks when compared to stoke players. They both looked like they are on the same level.

OneTwoPass · Jan 1, 2015

how do you check the lineup you predicted?

MrMancunianRed · Jan 1, 2015

MTR said:
Smalling was by far our worst defender.

I think you didn't watch Evans. Mr.Panic Nervous Dontknow Bloke.

mascarpone · Jan 1, 2015

Highlights and goals are here
http://www.ball-control.com/video.php?ID=1936

jaimoe · Jan 1, 2015

MrMancunianRed said:
I think you didn't watch Evans. Mr.Panic Nervous Dontknow Bloke.

Why Evans is still here when we have McNair available is beyond me. Watching Evans and Jones together takes years off of your life.

MrMancunianRed · Jan 1, 2015

jaimoe said:
Why Evans is still here when we have McNair available is beyond me. Watching Evans and Jones together takes years off of your life.

I think its just because he is exp. academy player. His is so nervous these days and that quality is contagious. Passing nerves to the whole team. Imagine if no Carrick, Blind is also having his share of brain farts.

Tonjo · Jan 1, 2015

United should have use Hererra earlier as when he comes on, he inspired Mata.
When Januzaj came in, he should have been played on the right side and Young switched back to left side. Both of them can make use of their better legs and maybe put in better crosses or even have shots at goal when cutting in-field. Jonny Evans has once again showed his poor defensive ability. He should be replaced with Blackett who is naturally left footed and strong in the air.

The Stain · Jan 1, 2015

Smalling looked excellent out there. My motm. Evans has poor form and shouldnt play. Falcao is showing poachers instincts which is encouraging although his first touch needs work (hes excused today because of wheather). Rooney should stop crossing unless its a counterattacking play. Withdraw Nani from loan if possible or sign a winger then loan out Januzaj, the lad needs consistent games to strengthen his confidence. RvP almost scored a beaut. Mata, Carrick, Jones, De Gea decent. Young cant play on the right for some reason. We are desperate for pace, Di Maria get well soon lad.

Trying to figure out why we didnt go to a back 4 mid game. We needed another creator to make things happen in attack. With Stoke so congested in the middle of the park we needed to be more of a threat out wide. What i would have liked to see is our wingbacks challenging their opponents and get in the penalty area instead of always crossing. When the conditions are like today you should promote playing on the ground. We had all possession and despite at some times playing patient, we needed more patience to look for openings.

All in all, the game as it played out, ill take the draw as we probably deserved to loose.

jaimoe · Jan 1, 2015

The Stain said:
Smalling looked excellent out there. My motm. Evans has poor form and shouldnt play. Falcao is showing poachers instincts which is encouraging although his first touch needs work (hes excused today because of wheather). Rooney should stop crossing unless its a counterattacking play. Withdraw Nani from loan if possible or sign a winger then loan out Januzaj, the lad needs consistent games to strengthen his confidence. RvP almost scored a beaut. Mata, Carrick, Jones, De Gea decent. Young cant play on the right for some reason.

Trying to figure out why we didnt go to a back 4 mid game. We needed another creator to make things happen in attack. With Stoke so congested in the middle of the park we needed to be more of a threat out wide. What i would have like to see is our wingbacks challenging their opponents and get in the penalty area instead of always crossing. When the conditions are like today you should promote playing on the ground. We had all possession and despite at some times playing patient, we needed more patience to look for openings.

All in all, the game as it played out, ill take the draw as we probably deserved to loose.

I thought Jones was shite today. If we recall Nani and loan AJ it is zero sum, Nani has no future here so if there is room to play a recalled loanee just play AJ instead.

The Stain · Jan 1, 2015

jaimoe said:
I thought Jones was shite today. If we recall Nani and loan AJ it is zero sum, Nani has no future here so if there is room to play a recalled loanee just play AJ instead.

And yet Nani is in excellent form for Sporting and would be a better option short term. I did say or sign a winger didnt i? Jones got the decent nod for clearing the cross which Crouch probably would have scored from if not the interception.

Thugmann · Jan 1, 2015

I missed the match due to sleeping off a heavy night of drinking, Can anyone give me a brief idea on how we played?

MattyB1986 · Jan 1, 2015

Thugmann said:
I missed the match due to sleeping off a heavy night of drinking, Can anyone give me a brief idea on how we played?

One word! Rubbish.

jaimoe · Jan 1, 2015

The Stain said:
And yet Nani is in excellent form for Sporting and would be a better option short term. I did say or sign a winger didnt i? Jones got the decent nod for clearing the cross which Crouch probably would have scored from if not the interception.

Yes, but recalling nani and sending out aj would be nonsensical. I don't think nanai would play either. With Shaw and Rafel back LVG wants his man Young out there so there goes a lot of pt.

DomesticTadpole · Jan 1, 2015

jaimoe said:
Yes, but recalling nani and sending out aj would be nonsensical. I don't think nanai would play either. With Shaw and Rafel back LVG wants his man Young out there so there goes a lot of pt.

Looks like Young is going to be out for a while.

darko · Jan 1, 2015

I thought Falcao was supposed to be fast yet he was caught on a couple of occasion. The best aspect of his game today was the fact he was maybe the most involved. I thought Mata was as well. I thought Jones was involved and played well but his poor coverage was one of the two reason Stoke scored their goal.

I gave Carrick the MOT because I didn't think he did anything off today. He was solid. There wasn't really any very good performance. Most were just okay with couple of off performances in RVP and Januzaj (who was dreadful). Going forward, Luke Shaw has yet to impress me and that is simple not going to do for the #1 LB. I expect him t take on opponent when he is one on one and he just is not doing it.

I can predict the way United are going to play just by the speed of their ball movement. Today, they were taking too many touches hanging on to the ball far to long even when teammates were open for a simple pass.

King Kendrick · Jan 1, 2015

after we went down a goal, our attack finally started showing some bite to it. however, after we equalized we started sitting back and inviting pressure onto us again. 65% possession in the first half is useless really if we dont do anything with it. 5-6 shots the entire game? pathetic.

didnt help that LVG took off our best player in falcao and left rvp on when he did almost nothing the entire game apart from the half chance from the mata flick.

Papii Grande · Jan 2, 2015

I don't want to bash LVG especially when I'm grateful to have him over Moyes, but I have to air my frustrations somehow. Please excuse the essay and respond if you disagree with me. But I feel I am rightfully criticizing his attitude of late.

Van Gaal is far too busy bitching and he's botched the Xmas games by not focusing on the importance of picking up away wins in this period where points come and go like a common cold.
He got his priorities wrong against Villa, thinking they'd be a stroll and took off RVP for Wilson who did nothing towards goal apart from one shot, he turned us into a one-dimensional unit by taking off Valencia for no apparent reason there aswell. Our best player off and a match-winner off. That's thinking ahead while the game was going on. That's complacency surely? He thought Villa was poor enough that they would weaken and we would take the win as the game tired on.

Then there's Spurs, he doesn't rotate, he constantly moaned pre-game, projected negativity towards the crucial Xmas run-in, that makes us and the players believe the game will be a chore, low an behold, the game was a chore.
The draw at WHL is not bad at all, but pre-game he hardly filled us or his players with confidence did he?

Then there's today, no preperation for set pieces or organisation to mark bloody Crouch Why was we playing Zonal against a team that fielded 8 physically imposing outfield players. Especially Crouch, he a sticks out like a boner in that team.
No urgency to get a winner after the equaliser, then LVG takes off the best player on the pitch for who? Herrera who's barely fit and Januzaj who played wing back against big bad stoke, that was shocking and naive from a manager of his calibre.
Preservation for Falcao is not justifiable point ! He played him twice in 48 hours, bit late to protect him when he was fed to sharks twice in 2 days. The damage is already done, why didn't wilson start vs Spurs when we needed rotation. That would have looked like preservation.

Its hardly Moyes like, but its arrogant from LVG, to underestimate sides, to moan about the fixture list, to negatively start against Spurs especially when it's been the english culture to be uncivilised in such sporting matters, it's why they fail in europe and international tournaments, But surely LVG should have bought into it all by now instead of approaching it like the Premier league was on the verge of revolutionary revamp of the Xmas schedule.

Now we're back in the top 4 battle, when we could have consolidated 3rd by picking up at least 9/12 points instead of this measly 6 from 12. I would take 3 wins and a loss to Spurs easily over 1 win and 3 draws to sides we should dominate early and then conserve against later.

Apart from playing Spurs, we had an unusually easy Xmas run in, but LVG being arrogant in nature underestimated the opposing teams more than the common fan would.
LVG has banged on about perfect performances against Hull and QPR, but in all honesty they are pants, LVG needs a wake up call, we should be consolidating 3rd, not fighting for 4th.

Fergie was a mile ahead of LVG and Moyes in terms of attitude. Sorry to bring up the past again and for the next part.
LVG is arrogant, we love that in him but it has it downfalls. He overcomplicates matters talking about dominating and performances away needing to imrpove and then he underestimates lesser sides repeatedly. While Moyes was too cautious, out of his depth and a wimp by nature he thrived away because of his mindset. Fergie believed simply in speed of play, determination, work rate and getting results, home and away. LVG's on the ball at home and he demands passing attacking football, he makes intelligent moves, unquestionable decisions and we look perfect for our circumstances. But away from home, he's totally complacent bordering on arrogant, his decisions are shocking week after week, the back 3 always feautures in away games but never inspires any confidence there was no need for a back 3 today, but it features again, it's a mainstay of our defensive frailties - a unfamilar set up.

A different attitude, a result orientated mindset away, we would be far better off, LVG has to fix the away form, it's him rather than the team I dont see any difference between the players, it's just the approach they've had drummed in is all wrong.
Its like he tells the players at home " you must attack, you shall win, be perfect",
he tell the players away " dominate possession, improve performance".

Process, Philosophy, performances is great, but the instant demands of the 90 minute game are work rate, positive attitude. We need away results, too many dropped points and not enough reflection within what's happening away and why, it's the same insane repetition.

MikeUpNorth · Jan 2, 2015

How the hell is the average player rating 5.5 after that crap performance? The caf is very generous.

RedDevil@84 · Jan 2, 2015

The player who disappointed me was Falcao yesterday. Much more was expected of him with the ball. But he was easily robbed off the ball. Falcao is tall and not skinny to be pushed off the ball. In the first half he made some ridiculous decisions after he won the ball. He shot some Fellaini type shots at nowhere. Gave impossible passes to Rvp which RvP would never have a chance. Hit hard at Stoke player with the ball when he did not know what to do with it.
He was almost looking scared to tackle anyone for the ball and looked like taking good care of his legs.
Except for the goal, he was not good and average at the best. But there were far worser players yesterday thankfully.
Maybe playing many matches so soon is having an impact on him.

Evans did as was expected of him. He gets brain f**ed in between the match and this happens every 2 matches at least. We desperately need proper defenders who know their jobs and definitely need to have back 4 because all of them are fit as of now. Touchwood!!!

Shaw was good in defending as well as going forward. He needs to work a lot on what he wants to do next. He looked confused after running away with the ball and ended up just hitting a Stoke player aimlessly more than once. So there is no use of breaking away beautifully and ending up with a poor pass or attempted cross.

Carrick had a flip flop match between decent and bad and of course a brain freeze moment.

Herrera coming on did not have much impact. Rooney made a mess of things some times and had a forgettable match. Mata made some great runs and passes and which on another day could have been goals.

soap · Jan 2, 2015

Bad performance, no two ways about it. there are going to be games like that while we're in a transitional period and all that jazz. We're not title contenders this season, I don't think any of us thought we were, playing shite away at Stoke is not a shock.

Evans is a complete retard and is going to cost us points if we persist with him. Yesterday convinced me even more that we have to sign someone with pace in attack. I haven't seen enough of Wilson to judge, maybe LVG is seeing things in training to make him think he's the man. Rooney is not a fecking centre midfielder, he does an OK job there and that's really it. Can't fault his effort or anything though.

Nice to see my boy Adnan back ven if his crossing was shit. I like the way he runs at people.

IwatUwat · Jan 2, 2015

Im not sure Im loving our 'style' currently. But I dont think we are playing how LVG wants us as yet.

There was a massive lack of creativity in our side. Its one thing keeping possession but if that means our only form of attack is to work the ball to 25/30 yards from goal with the opposition still pretty much in two banks of four, and then play the ball wide and hope they create a good ball in, or they play it back and we then start again maybe switching play to the other wing. Its not particularly great to watch or creative enough to score.

We are hardly ever working goals through the middle with quick passing or ever playing through balls for one on ones. It just seems we're still lacking that ability to unlock defence and I think it is due to players wanting to keep the ball (in line with LVG strategy of possession football) but often this gives our opposition time to get back in position. Currently re-watching the match. Its crazy how many times we just play the ball wide and hope for cross, young was providing these, Shaw more often than not cutting back and playing it backwards. Build from the back keeping the ball fine. But Stoke just dropped in, waited for it to go wide and then defended. Not that difficult for them, a real lack of creativity through the middle, we've lacked it all year, but not sure if currently its because RVP and Falcao are neither a 10 style player, however most may argue Rooney and Mata should still be able to do this, with the quality of Falcao and RVP at making space/runs.

jaimoe · Jan 3, 2015

DomesticTadpole said:
Looks like Young is going to be out for a while.

Do you want nani at wingback, or even AJ for that matter? Nani has just let me down too many times and there was a time when I thought he could be a real star.
Well, I guess there's always the window.

DomesticTadpole · Jan 3, 2015

jaimoe said:
Do you want nani at wingback, or even AJ for that matter? Nani has just let me down too many times and there was a time when I thought he could be a real star.
Well, I guess there's always the window.

A. J. isn't much of a wingback tbh. What is the situation with Nani's loan anyway, is it for the season? He seems more settled back in Portugal and might be better staying there.

jaimoe · Jan 3, 2015

DomesticTadpole said:
A. J. isn't much of a wingback tbh. What is the situation with Nani's loan anyway, is it for the season? He seems more settled back in Portugal and might be better staying there.

IMO better for both Nani and Utd. Damn this injury bug.

jaimoe · Jan 3, 2015

IwatUwat said:
Im not sure Im loving our 'style' currently. But I dont think we are playing how LVG wants us as yet.

There was a massive lack of creativity in our side. Its one thing keeping possession but if that means our only form of attack is to work the ball to 25/30 yards from goal with the opposition still pretty much in two banks of four, and then play the ball wide and hope they create a good ball in, or they play it back and we then start again maybe switching play to the other wing. Its not particularly great to watch or creative enough to score.

We are hardly ever working goals through the middle with quick passing or ever playing through balls for one on ones. It just seems we're still lacking that ability to unlock defence and I think it is due to players wanting to keep the ball (in line with LVG strategy of possession football) but often this gives our opposition time to get back in position. Currently re-watching the match. Its crazy how many times we just play the ball wide and hope for cross, young was providing these, Shaw more often than not cutting back and playing it backwards. Build from the back keeping the ball fine. But Stoke just dropped in, waited for it to go wide and then defended. Not that difficult for them, a real lack of creativity through the middle, we've lacked it all year, but not sure if currently its because RVP and Falcao are neither a 10 style player, however most may argue Rooney and Mata should still be able to do this, with the quality of Falcao and RVP at making space/runs.

This constant passing the ball backwards just kills me. If the receiver is harried sure, but many times they could turn and attack and simply play it back out of reflex. It is my hope that AdM returns and fixes that issue.
And since I am bitching, is Rooney the only player that understands you don't have to head the ball back from where it came? It is okay to settle the ball and actually pass it forward; Phil Jones doesn't understand apparently.

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