Don't think they called it offside. Unless the commentator missed it as he said it would've stayed.
Champions League Group H
Valencia 2:1 Manchester United
Mestalla Stadium
- Kick-off
- Wed, 12 December 2018 @ 8:00pm GMT
- Status
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Closed
Discussion Live Updates 20 Your Lineup Prediction
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- Status
Right winger ?
If so we should be all over him.
Who would you prefer ?We would be annihilated against Dortmund more so than against any other side in the competition.
Isolating performances to one single individual is perhaps the daftest thing i've heard of in a while. As a bare minimum you look at the foundations that are there to allow the employee to do his job when you evaluate how someone is functioning in his job, is the company doing it's job so that the employee can do his. After the Deepwater Horizon disaster, every company involved was turned upside down to prove that their employees had been trained sufficiently. It wasn't enough that the courses for the DPO's were valid, every course that was ever taken was looked closely at to see if there were any issues with them, even the instructors were under pressure to prove the standards were good enough, which again became a larger problem because those third party companies were scared for getting the company involved, which generally resulted in employees being isolated and on their own until they had been cleared.
In a sport like football, it's crucial to look at the bigger picture. While the blame will never solely lie at Mourinho's feet, players involved will need to take some responsibility, it's becoming pretty clear that Mourinho is unable to get the best out of this group of players.Time to bring the average warriors back in at Anfield. At least then the traveling fans will see effort, even if the quality is laughable.
Exactly. Where's the logic behind preferring a team who only lost once in a nothing league to an UCL giant who's lost 3 or 4 in a heavy-weight one.15th in la liga. Say no more.
Bayern over Dortmund any day.
It's not only about statistics, it's about performance on the pitch. Bayern is really sub par this year, they're a far easier pick imo.
We're in for a potential drubbing at Anfield no matter who plays. The speed of their football will be too much. A lot of people are going to be left shocked on Sunday .United offered winning the group on a plate.
United proceed to kick the plate to the ground and take a massive shit on it.
Unless you actually subscribe to what is little more than a conspiracy theory in that United are not coaches, then the players receive top class training, with top class facilities at a top class football club. This is a forum where the same people who claim the side are not coached, will suggest one of the first team coaches takes over until the end of the season... Which shows how little the average forum member knows
And of course you hold people accountable for their own performances. As well as the overall team performance with it being a team sport. And yes, the managers too. But in this particular game, one without pressure when what was basically a second string side, it's on the players.
UCL isn't about form but pedigree, experience and quality. There's a reason why you don't have any Leicesters winning the big ears. Or relatively new clubs for that matter. Moyes' United were 20 minutes away from reaching semis. Big guys know how to play it even if the season's gone.
Ok, thanks.Another insipid performance. When we get a goal near the end, it comes from the workrate of Lingard, the delivery from Young, and a composed finish from Rashford - yes the three substitutes. Nobody who started today made much of a case for inclusion in the starting eleven against Liverpool, and Fred had an almost legendarily awful game (I rated him 2, but I think that was mostly out of sympathy).
This was a game we should have been going all out to win in the knowledge that it wouldn't have mattered that much if we lost. Did the manager set the side up to be so passive, or did the players just fail to perform? Where was the pace and intensity we've seen in the last couple of games? It seems as if we are just a completely different side, in terms of energy and effort, when Rashford, Herrera and Lingard play.
It was a shame we didn't get to see Greenwood or Garner, especially Greenwood
Fellaini is also the reason were qualified though?
I don't see anyone complaining about the state of the treadmills, rowing machines or weights for that matter, or that it's a question of the training pitches or general facilities, i think we can quite easily agree that when we're looking at the foundations in place for a top club, for their players to perform well, we're looking at what the manager is doing, tactics, what are we training to achieve.
For me, there's clearly something wrong with the training and tactics, i don't see any other decent alternatives that would explain the overall lack of movement around the player that has the ball. There's no obvious system in place, which is the normal occurance and not just a result of who plays. Given what we see in matches and what Hazard has said earlier about Mourinho and trainings, it's not exactly unfair to suggest that we're not focusing on movement around the player with the ball.
There were a few decent debates about it in the studio after the match, with clips of what happens when a United midfielder get the ball, how the distance to a teammate increases because we need the player on the ball to create something on his own. It's easily visible when a player is high up the pitch and moving down either flank with the ball, how the teammates line up at the edge of the box, waiting for the player to cross the ball so they can go into the box, there's very rarely any passing options.
Alternatively look at the screengrabs below of another situation that's common
There's absolutely no movement as a team. In the first picture, Lingard should be much closer to Ashley Young, Mata should be looking at getting in behind.
In the second picture, Young has passed the ball backwards to Lingard who rolls it to Mata, what are the passing options afterwards. What should happen is that Pereira should move towards Mata to make himself available for the pass, Lingard should continue his run in central to be a passing option for Pereira while Pogba should run into space in front of their box to make himself available to receive a pass from Lingard.
What happens ? Oh, we roll it sideways to Pogba
What passing options does Pogba have ? None, so he lets the ball run sideways to Valencia
Who has no passing options. Pereira should bust a gut to be the forward passing option for Valencia, but it never happens. The only time a player passes the ball and goes on a run to receive it, is when Valencia passes it back to Pogba, Pogba passes it to Valencia again and runs into space but never gets the ball.
Same with the situation i commented on earlier when Pogba had a go with his left foot, there's no passing options:
It's absolutely insane how we fail to take advantage of that situation due to poor movement. :
- Rashford correctly plays the ball to Pereira who makes a bit of a stupid choice when he passes it to Lingard instead of Pogba
-Lingard makes an even worse choice when he slows the tempo further with his pass to Pogba
-to make matters worse, Lingard goes in central instead of staying wide
- end result is that Pogba is closed down by 4 valencia players, while there are two United players ahead of him in Lingard and Rashford who are both operating in the same narrow space, with Pereira as a useless passing option
For me, it's pretty damn obvious that we aren't moving as a team, there should always be a bare minimum of two available players that can receive the pass, which should again create two new options, you constantly move the ball around the pitch creating passing options and you move the ball forward.
We're not doing that at all, and considering it's been the case for quite some time it's difficult to suggest that it's not due to current management.
You will always look at individual performances as well, you can have the best setup for people to thrive in and there will always be those who fail to perform.
Imho you're easily wrong about the bold part as well. You take a decent chunk of players who aren't used to playing together, haven't played a competitive match for a long time and you stick them in a team that doesn't have a well known style of football that every player in the team is drilled at.
My mistake for thinking Young Boys could never beat Juventus! Still made no difference because we're so shite.
Jones, Smalling, Young and Valencia. As long as these players are still at the club it reflects poorly on the club because these lads would never make it for a big team. These players should absolutely have no role to play in the starting XI and be made to leave yet we hear of contract renewal talks! Whilst I believe that Mourinho is responsible for us not performing up to the expected standard and the football is dreadful, we absolutely cannot win the league with such caliber of players! I've singled out these four because I cant believe they have been around for so long but there obvious other players who arent the quality we need.
As much as we need to bring in top players, we need to get rid of the deadwood.
agreed
it's strange as he's played regularly for Argentina at LB and LWB
he's been a total liability in that position
You should really post that in a different thread because it will get lost in the match day and it's an excellent illustration of what many of us have been saying for months.I don't see anyone complaining about the state of the treadmills, rowing machines or weights for that matter, or that it's a question of the training pitches or general facilities, i think we can quite easily agree that when we're looking at the foundations in place for a top club, for their players to perform well, we're looking at what the manager is doing, tactics, what are we training to achieve.
For me, there's clearly something wrong with the training and tactics, i don't see any other decent alternatives that would explain the overall lack of movement around the player that has the ball. There's no obvious system in place, which is the normal occurance and not just a result of who plays. Given what we see in matches and what Hazard has said earlier about Mourinho and trainings, it's not exactly unfair to suggest that we're not focusing on movement around the player with the ball.
There were a few decent debates about it in the studio after the match, with clips of what happens when a United midfielder get the ball, how the distance to a teammate increases because we need the player on the ball to create something on his own. It's easily visible when a player is high up the pitch and moving down either flank with the ball, how the teammates line up at the edge of the box, waiting for the player to cross the ball so they can go into the box, there's very rarely any passing options.
Alternatively look at the screengrabs below of another situation that's common
There's absolutely no movement as a team. In the first picture, Lingard should be much closer to Ashley Young, Mata should be looking at getting in behind.
In the second picture, Young has passed the ball backwards to Lingard who rolls it to Mata, what are the passing options afterwards. What should happen is that Pereira should move towards Mata to make himself available for the pass, Lingard should continue his run in central to be a passing option for Pereira while Pogba should run into space in front of their box to make himself available to receive a pass from Lingard.
What happens ? Oh, we roll it sideways to Pogba
What passing options does Pogba have ? None, so he lets the ball run sideways to Valencia
Who has no passing options. Pereira should bust a gut to be the forward passing option for Valencia, but it never happens. The only time a player passes the ball and goes on a run to receive it, is when Valencia passes it back to Pogba, Pogba passes it to Valencia again and runs into space but never gets the ball.
Same with the situation i commented on earlier when Pogba had a go with his left foot, there's no passing options:
It's absolutely insane how we fail to take advantage of that situation due to poor movement. :
- Rashford correctly plays the ball to Pereira who makes a bit of a stupid choice when he passes it to Lingard instead of Pogba
-Lingard makes an even worse choice when he slows the tempo further with his pass to Pogba
-to make matters worse, Lingard goes in central instead of staying wide
- end result is that Pogba is closed down by 4 valencia players, while there are two United players ahead of him in Lingard and Rashford who are both operating in the same narrow space, with Pereira as a useless passing option
For me, it's pretty damn obvious that we aren't moving as a team, there should always be a bare minimum of two available players that can receive the pass, which should again create two new options, you constantly move the ball around the pitch creating passing options and you move the ball forward.
We're not doing that at all, and considering it's been the case for quite some time it's difficult to suggest that it's not due to current management.
You will always look at individual performances as well, you can have the best setup for people to thrive in and there will always be those who fail to perform.
Imho you're easily wrong about the bold part as well. You take a decent chunk of players who aren't used to playing together, haven't played a competitive match for a long time and you stick them in a team that doesn't have a well known style of football that every player in the team is drilled at.
There were quite a few occurrences where our midfielders would get into some space and pass away from the run of the attacker. That's basic training stuff that they don't seem to be doing. A midfielder should always know where the forwards are going to be running and how they want the pass delivered.Another drab performance where it is clear the players do not play like the manager has set them out.
Another performance littered with individual mistakes and sub par effort.
As much as I have never been a fan of Mourinho's appointment and transfer dealings, you simply cannot account for the lack of effort and pride the players show.
Mourinho is rightly annoyed at another performance that isn't upto standard - didn't he say after the game he wasn't happy and the team only performed when he made 3 substitutions he did not want to make.
Something has to give - and we wont be selling the deadwood (upto 8-10 players) and getting world class replacements any time soon which is whats needed for me.
We need to start buttering Poch up now......
It‘s all a bit more complex than that don’t you think?- Status
Ok.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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8%
Phil Jones
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5%
Paul Pogba
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4%
Andreas Pereira
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4%
Juan Mata
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3%
Eric Bailly
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3%
Ashley Young
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3%
Marouane Fellaini
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2%
Sergio Romero
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1%
Jesse Lingard
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1%
Antonio Valencia
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 255 ratings.
Score Predictions
109,84,147
- Man Utd win
- Valencia win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 27% Valencia 1:1 Man Utd
- 14% Valencia 0:0 Man Utd
- 11% Valencia 1:2 Man Utd
- 10% Valencia 0:1 Man Utd
- 8% Valencia 2:0 Man Utd
- 7% Valencia 2:1 Man Utd
- 7% Valencia 1:0 Man Utd
- 6% Valencia 0:2 Man Utd
- 3% Valencia 2:2 Man Utd
- 2% Valencia 1:3 Man Utd
- 1% Valencia 5:0 Man Utd
- 1% Valencia 0:5 Man Utd
- 1% Valencia 3:1 Man Utd
- 1% Valencia 0:3 Man Utd
- 0% Valencia 2:3 Man Utd
- 0% Valencia 4:5 Man Utd
- 0% Valencia 1:4 Man Utd
- 0% Valencia 0:4 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Valencia
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 45% 55%
- Shots
- 11 12
- Shots on Target
- 3 5
- Corners
- 5 5
- Fouls
- 6 23
Referee
Georgi Kabakov
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Ashley Young
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replaced by Marcus Rashford
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replaced by Jesse Lingard
