Watford 2:4 Manchester United

JustinC00 · Nov 26, 2017

tentan said:
Watford have been impressive this season.

Not sure how they've been impressive. They seem pretty bang on average to me. 22 goals allowed this season which is top 5 in most goals conceded. 2 wins in 6 matches at home, 1 of those being West Ham.

Have dropped more points (8) than they have picked up (7) against 5 of the current bottom 6

2-1 W vs Swansea
2-2 vs West Brom
0-1 L vs Stoke
2-3 L vs Everton
2-0 W vs West Ham

Treble · Nov 26, 2017

JustinC00 said:
Not sure how they've been impressive. They seem pretty bang on average to me. 22 goals allowed this season which is top 5 in most goals conceded. 2 wins in 6 matches at home, 1 of those being West Ham.

Have dropped more points (8) than they have picked up (7) against 5 of the current bottom 6

2-1 W vs Swansea
2-2 vs West Brom
0-1 L vs Stoke
2-3 L vs Everton
2-0 W vs West Ham

You must be wondering why they are comfortably 8th then - 5 pts clear off Brighton.

They concede a lot of goals though. They are far from lacking serious weaknesses in their game. City tonked them 6:0 for a reason. Still, they are not toothless and can create problems: 3:3 with Liverpool and 2:1 vs Arsenal. Part of the reason why their home record isn't great is that they have played 3 top 6 teams at home so far.

roonster09 · Nov 26, 2017

Treble said:
You must be wondering why they are comfortably 8th then - 5 pts clear off Brighton.

They concede a lot of goals though. They are far from lacking serious weaknesses in their game. City tonked them 6:0 for a reason. Still, they are not toothless and can create problems: 3:3 with Liverpool and 2:1 vs Arsenal. Part of the reason why their home record isn't great is that they have played 3 top 6 teams at home so far.

Also should have won against Chelsea but missed many chances. IIRC city got lucky break with 1st and 2nd goals from offside.

Charles Miller · Nov 26, 2017

VorZakone said:
Didn't City give them a spanking? I mean, they're a good side under Silva but they're still Watford though.

The game was tough in the first 30 minutes when Aguero scored in off side.
In fact City scored two goals in off side and had a penalty in their favor.
They would've won anyway i think, but would be a tougher game without the help of the referee.

JustinC00 · Nov 26, 2017

roonster09 said:
Also should have won against Chelsea but missed many chances. IIRC city got lucky break with 1st and 2nd goals from offside.

If you're gonna play "should have". Then they should have dropped 2 points to Arsenal. That penalty should have never been give in that game.

Charles Miller · Nov 26, 2017

They dont had Will Hughes against City and Chelsea.
They are stronger now.
Need to mark him out.

cyberman · Nov 26, 2017

Treble said:
You must be wondering why they are comfortably 8th then - 5 pts clear off Brighton.

They concede a lot of goals though. They are far from lacking serious weaknesses in their game. City tonked them 6:0 for a reason. Still, they are not toothless and can create problems: 3:3 with Liverpool and 2:1 vs Arsenal. Part of the reason why their home record isn't great is that they have played 3 top 6 teams at home so far.

They've lost 3 of the last 5 in the league.
Coupled with their home form I'm struggling to see where this juggernaut reputation is coming from.
I mean... Comfortably 8th?

Jacko21 · Nov 26, 2017

Back to a midfield three please.

Judas · Nov 26, 2017

ivaldo said:
We are 2nd in the league, now clear of Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and, of course Watford, with a significantly better goal difference, scoring more goals than all of them along with having the best defence in the league. So that’s where we are, despite the doomsaying.

Matches aren't won on paper though, are they? Of course if you approach it like that, it should be straight forward, but that's not how reality works.

Gerald G · Nov 26, 2017

De Gea
Darmian--Smalling--Rojo--Young
Fellaini--Matic--Pogba
Mkhitaryan--Lukaku--Martial

ivaldo · Nov 26, 2017

Judas said:
Matches aren't won on paper though, are they? Of course if you approach it like that, it should be straight forward, but that's not how reality works.

No they arent, they’re won by scoring more goals than your opposition, and as I’ve just detailed we’ve done that more times than any other team apart from City. For all the pessimism and unwarranted criticism of Jose, we win games. No amount of doomsaying will change that.

Havak · Nov 26, 2017

This is going to be a hard, hard game I expect and it begins a very tough run. The stupid loss against Basel makes this run of four games so much more frustrating as we can't exactly play an second string side against CSKA anymore (between the Arsenal and Man City games), which I am sure we would've done otherwise. I think we can lose 0-3 to CSKA and still go through as group winners due to the head-to-head records and goal difference, which I think wouldn't happen even if we rest players. At least it'll be a team that has to come to Old Trafford to win, so our attacking players will get space. Anyway, this game just requires our most in-form players in a 433, but who are they?

I think we have to play de Gea, Valencia, Smalling, Matic, Pogba, Rashford, and Lukaku from the start in the next three Premier League games, but the other places are very much up for grabs. Rojo looked good against Basel despite the defeat, so him and Smalling are probably the best bets against Watford and Arsenal, before bringing back Bailly & Jones against CSKA if fit. Young is probably the safest pick at Left Back right now as nobody is really locking that position down. I'd wager that Herrera or Fellaini are going to play as part of a midfield three for the upcoming Premier League fixtures, rather than playing Mata or Mkhitaryan at no.10. Although, if Watford and/or Arsenal play three at the back, maybe Jose will match that again as he seems to like to do that.

de Gea
Lindelof Smalling Rojo
Valencia Pogba Matic Young
Lingard Lukaku Rashford
---
Romero; Blind; Herrera, Fellaini, Mata; Martial, Ibrahimovic

Realistically, unless City lose to either Huddersfield or Southampton (or draw both), only winning our next three is good enough if we are going to be able to win the title (especially the City game). If City drop three or more points in the next two and we were to hypothetically beat them at Old Trafford, then four points away at Watford & Arsenal is probably OK.

I really do think this is going to be tough as Watford are decent, head is saying we draw 1-1. But, I'm going to be optimistic and say we win 0-2 or 1-2 - substitute to grab the winner, either Fellaini, Martial, or Zlatan.

Damien · Nov 26, 2017

De Gea

Valencia Smalling Rojo Young
Matic
Fellaini Pogba
Mkhitaryan Lukaku Rashford

Can see Darmian starting in place of Valencia though.

Ludens the Red · Nov 26, 2017

Our next three games are horrific, like actually horrific. Watford are a bit shite at the back but very good going forward. This game is massive, at this point arguably bigger than the arse, city games because it could set the tempo for those.

BusbyMalone · Nov 26, 2017

Really tough game this. Our performances away have been pretty poor and you really don't know which United are going to turn up.

We're so bloody inconsistent at the moment that it's hard to get excited when we do actually put in a good performance and get a win.

I'd be lying if i said i wasn't pessimistic.

Sammyjunn · Nov 26, 2017

They'll put us under pressure, I am looking forward to how Pogba will handle that.

DocRockter · Nov 26, 2017

Deeney is back for this one, right? We need someone to wrestle with him and it's not Smalling or Lindelöf..

Adisa · Nov 26, 2017

Can't see a win.
Marco Silva is no mug.

Treble · Nov 26, 2017

I think that Herrera would be more useful than Fellaini for this one, we need mobility and quick legs in midfield. Bring in Fellaini in the second half.

meamth · Nov 26, 2017

Fellaini needs to start. He will add that extra bit of grit on that midfield to battle Watford, and we can avoid being called "lack of Cojones". :lol:

dichinero · Nov 26, 2017

Adisa said:
Can't see a win.
Marco Silva is no mug.

He certainly isn't. He had a decent run with Hull at some point last season

Catt · Nov 26, 2017

Adisa said:
Can't see a win.
Marco Silva is no mug.

Agree with you.

Kaos · Nov 26, 2017

I'm going to this, Watford are my local

Raw · Nov 26, 2017

Adisa said:
Can't see a win.
Marco Silva is no mug.

He dealt with us quite well when he was at Hull too. In the league he drew 0-0 against us at Old Trafford. In the League Cup we beat Hull 2-0 (but it was pretty difficult) and we lost 2-1 in the 2nd leg.

Catt · Nov 26, 2017

Kaos said:
I'm going to this, Watford are my local

Be kind and bring us some luck with 3 points.

JustinC00 · Nov 26, 2017

cyberman said:
They've lost 3 of the last 5 in the league.
Coupled with their home form I'm struggling to see where this juggernaut reputation is coming from.
I mean... Comfortably 8th?

The impressive thing I guess comes from them getting a soft penalty and scoring in the 92nd minute against Arsenal to win and drawing with Liverpool

Because i'm looking at their Ws and i'm not really seeing anything that stands out as impressive

2-0 W Bournemouth
2-0 W Southampton
2-1 W Swansea
2-1 W Aresnal (soft penalty and a 92nd minute goal)
2-0 W West Ham
3-0 W Newcastle

Their losses & draws

3-3 Liverpool
6-0 City
2-2 West Brom
4-2 Chelsea
1-0 Stoke
3-2 Everton

I mean they are a side that has won against teams they should be winning against. Solid team but the impressive thing i'm not really getting. Especially when they lost 3-2 to an Everton squad that has been the worst team in the league since the end of August. Everton has 2 wins since beating Stoke on the opening weekend. Bournemouth and Watford.. And the thing about that 3-2 loss to Everton was Watford was up 2-0 in the 65th. Are you really an impressive side when you are bottling a 2-0 lead with 25 minutes left to fecking Everton.

AXVnee7 · Nov 26, 2017

I said 2-1 for this. The next 3 games are about getting 9 points if we want to challenge for the title. If we want to beat Arsenal and City who will both attack us, then we have to display a minimum level of attack by default, otherwise we'll be relying on an insane amount of luck.

I would like to see Lukaku rested in this game for the weekend. Zlatan can start.

Kaos · Nov 26, 2017

Red Katie said:
Be kind and bring us some luck with 3 points.

If its any consolation, every Watford game I've been to they've ended up losing.

Catt · Nov 26, 2017

Kaos said:
If its any consolation, every Watford game I've been to they've ended up losing.

Well then if we win I'll start believing things.

TMDaines · Nov 26, 2017

We're poor away from home in recent months and I am struggling to see us turning up and winning against a decent side. Fancy us against anyone at home, but away is a different story.

Harry190 · Nov 26, 2017

Watford playing home? 3 points in the bag then. They're much better away, which is strange.

Alabaster Codify7 · Nov 26, 2017

DocRockter said:
Deeney is back for this one, right? We need someone to wrestle with him and it's not Smalling or Lindelöf..

Rojo will eat that melt for breakfast. Hopefully, anyway! This is not a game for Lindelof though, at all.

Hugh Jass · Nov 26, 2017

This will be a tough tough match. Then Arsenal at the weekend. City could be miles ahead of us by the time we play them.

NotoriousISSY · Nov 26, 2017

Lindelof seems to be on the up, but the thought of him vs Deeney doesn’t fill me with confidence.

I hope they spend a week practising how to cross a ball. Why have Lukaku?

Canagel · Nov 26, 2017

Must win. There are no excuses. We have everyone fit now. Jose cannot hide behind injury problems anymore so as LVG once said "WE GO FOR IT!!!".

minoo-utd · Nov 26, 2017

Any news on Bailly and Jones?

minoo-utd · Nov 26, 2017

Hugh Jass said:
This will be a tough tough match. Then Arsenal at the weekend. City could be miles ahead of us by the time we play them.

12 points clear maybe by that time! Players must realize we can't drop points before the derby, to keep things a bit close.

Android1974 · Nov 26, 2017

The way we are playing now, this game has everything to mean more lost points, unless we get lucky or change the attitude. Also, we're probably matching the 3-4-3 of our adversaries in the next two matches.

Klopp_De_Klown · Nov 27, 2017

I have read a lot of comments on here, that its City who are making us look bad and we are doing ok its just they are being exceptional. SO I looked it up!

The top 2 below are this year's table after 13 games, the rest are going back for 10 years plus United's title winning years back to the treble in 1999, after 13 games. Title winning years highlighted in red.
Year...Team......P...GD
17... City....... 37 +34
17... United.... 29 +22
16... Chelsea.. 31 +19
15... Leicester 28 +8
14... Chelsea.. 33 +19
13... Arsenal... 31 +17
12... United.... 30 +14
11... City....... 35 +35
10... Chelsea.. 28 +20
09... Chelsea.. 33 +25
08... Chelsea.. 32 +28
07... Arsenal.. 33 +19
06... United... 34 +23
02... Liverpool 30 +14
00... United... 30 +25
99... Leeds.... 29 +10
98... Villa...... 28 +10

What is clear is, city are really doing well. But we are below title winning form. It's not impossible as 2015, 2010, 2000, 1999 shows but it would be some collapse by city and a slight rise in our form. In 02/03 we did make up 8 points on the scousers who incidentally had just lost in the week the stat was taken and eventually finished 5th, 23 points behind United.

Anyway, Watford, I think we win this one, it is tough but I think we do better against these types of teams. 0-2 is my guess.

spwd · Nov 27, 2017

Gone for 2-1 to us, but id settle for a draw.

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