West Bromwich Albion 2:2 Manchester United

AgentP · Oct 20, 2014

sunama said:
On a positive note:
We are unbeaten in a few games, now.
Another point is that previously, after 60 minutes we'd stop playing, act shell shocked and then get pinned in our own half, attempting to park the bus. Today, this didnt happen. We were dominating right upto the end. The problem was that the WBA had 2 shots on target and they both went in. This sort of stat rarely happens and I think it was a bit of a freak result.
We do no need better defenders - P.Jones is slow and best described as an oaf.
Credit to WBA - they defended extremely well. They were happy to have Man Utd in their own half, but maintained cool/calm/collected and maintained their shape. Man Utd could learn from them.
We need to learn to be comfortable when the ball is in our own half - at present we panic.

I actually think that we took a step forward and this was our best away performance this year.

Yeah. After we scored the 2nd goal, it was a little like the Fergie era. Nice attacking play but the final ball let us down.

Mato87 · Oct 20, 2014

bastip92 said:
Just use your brain and ask yourself "Did we really do enough to score more than them?"
No we didn't.

Iam asking you again, stop flamebaiting and stop quoting me, if you can't really see what the game and united had to offer during tonights away match, then I have nothing more to say to you. You're obviously some stuck up over opinionated egotistic forum flamer.

bastip92 · Oct 20, 2014

Mato87 said:
Iam asking you again, stop flamebaiting and stop quoting me, if you can't really see what the game and united had to offer during tonights away match, then I have nothing more to say to you. You're obviously some stuck up over opinionated egotistic forum flamer.

ok

do9 · Oct 20, 2014

S

Guildford Red said:
that was against west ham mate. He didn't ply against everton which was my point.

Sorry my bad. I am in shock so...

sunama · Oct 20, 2014

Kakeru said:
Our only, and yet, a HOPE-KILLER of a problem!
This is where I was hoping LVG would at least take a leaf from Mourinho's book:

Dude Mourinho is arguably the best manager in the World.
The only guy who can do what Mourinho does, is Mourinho.
We had our chance to hire him, but instead we got Moyes - shocking! To this day I dont understand why we didnt hire him, when we had the chance.
We now need to stick by our manager (who is quality) and get better players than Chelsea. This will tip the balance in our favour.
I have every confidence that next year we will be challenging for the title.

christinaa · Oct 20, 2014

Kakeru said:
Our only, and yet, a HOPE-KILLER of a problem!

This is where I was hoping LVG would at least take a leaf from Mourinho's book: sort out the defensive play as a unit first, and then add the missing pieces to push forward. I looked at some names in the roster Chelsea had last year and I would never have bet Mourinho to pull it down to the wire with that team despite some poor results against lower teams... but he did and then we are now seeing how he picks up from there.

Again, I have to say that I agree 100% with this.

Mourinho pinpointed exactly the players he wanted and needed (and bought them) in order to strongly build the present Chelsea team - you're perfectly right there.

And with that I'm off to bed - enjoyed my time here in the main board speaking with some of you who can discuss coherently about footie. Good night friends.

SqueakyWeasel · Oct 20, 2014

aldhanoon said:
Guess who

I'm not a lip-reader but I'm sure he says "… a fecking waste o' money!"

matecro007 · Oct 20, 2014

How did we do?

SqueakyWeasel · Oct 20, 2014

sunama said:
Dude Mourinho is arguably the best manager in the World.
The only guy who can do what Mourinho does, is Mourinho.
We had our chance to hire him, but instead we got Moyes - shocking! To this day I dont understand why we didnt hire him, when we had the chance.
We now need to stick by our manager (who is quality) and get better players than Chelsea. This will tip the balance in our favour.
I have every confidence that next year we will be challenging for the title.

We can go head-to-head in the market but we have to use them better too … our team sheet is a wet dream offensively but SAF says he always built from the back and I fear we didn't really sort out the departures in defence after last season!
The only thing that will make me happy now is a City loss in the snow and Ronaldo running riot ay Anfield!

johnjoered · Oct 20, 2014

Just caught the second half and to be honest was disappointed . We were sluggish in our build up, was better when Falcao came on, Van Persie's attitude didn't seem right and our defence still makes me nervous, especially Rafael, his positional sense is really awful at times. Sunday will tell us a lot I think, Falcao must start, maybe Mata also, players usually do well against former teams, but defence will have to be strong and play as a unit. Think we would have lost that match tonight last season, still a work in progress and a few more signings needed, but getting there! Glory Glory

HeatSikhingMissile · Oct 20, 2014

Van gaal got it terribly wrong today:

1. Wrong formation, Blind, Herrera is a poor combination for cdm. And Mata ahead of them who has virtually zero defensive work rate. Di Maria is not as effective on the wing especially defensively.

41212 shouldve been the way to go.
Blind Carrick/Jones and Di Maria

Mata/ Herrera cam

Wilson and Falcao up front

2. RVP is nothing without precision service. His hold up is almost non existent now. Falcao should start against Chelsea. Rvp is a bench warmer at best now. How he stayed for 90 mins is beyond me.

3. Janujaz is not a winger. He's grossly overrated because he plays for man utd. Simple as that. Garbage performance today. No pace. No technical ability. I don't care if he hasn't started often, he wasted so many chances.

Sick of him blasting it into row z everytime whether crossing or shooting. How many times did his touch run it out pf play today?

There's no guarantee he will become a good player, just because he gets compared to Ronaldo doesn't mean anything. Sterling is light years ahead of him. Try him as a no 10 or loan him out if it doesn't work. All this nurturing crap is boring now

4. Jones is a cdm not a cb. Never will be a good cb. We need a new cb in January. And a good one. Rojo is okay but he needs someone to direct him in defence

MrMancunianRed · Oct 21, 2014

To all those who are blasting our defense today, I still saw bright spots in the two point drop game today.

Great defenses are not formed overnight or in one single transfer market season. We have the youngest back 4 line with Luke Shaw (19) Rojo (25) Jones (22) and Rafael(24). They need time to adapt and rise to level of expectations at ManUtd. When we were in transition period, like when Nevilles are getting in to first team, similar mistakes are done and people write those defenses off. But later on they proved to be the best in the generation.

What we need now is a bit more playing time.

For me, in air we are the best today in clearing them. only problems arose when we are pressing high line. Rojo and Blind were very good in breaking opposition plays. Jones just returned back, let him have a run of games.

We never lost our character in the game today. We always played in their half and unable to find one more crucial pass in the game.

Dont worry guys we will be back. Stronger. It is always nature of ManUtd. When others think we hit rock bottom we always bounced back to sky high.

What we all need is just TIME...
Patience is needed from some fans.

Laphroaig · Oct 21, 2014

Another two points down the drain. Hard to believe we've actually a good chance to make top four, we've been absolutely shocking so far. I feel we're going to be great come next season though.

Sam · Oct 21, 2014

Laphroaig said:
Another two points down the drain. Hard to believe we've actually a good chance to make top four, we've been absolutely shocking so far. I feel we're going to be great come next season though.

The annoying thing about all these dropped points, West Brom, Burnley, Leicester, Swansea...none of these teams have looked anything but half decent, but we've just constantly f*cked it up.

Jay Pascal · Oct 21, 2014

To sum up: RVP, Adnan and Mata were very poor. disappointed with Luke Shaw. He doesn't look like a £30mill defender and his general play was poor.

On the positive side, we didn't lose the game and we were pressing towards the end, like the United of old. " We did not draw this game, we just ran out of time".

Walters_19_MuFc · Oct 21, 2014

]I was a bit baffled when I first saw the how we lined-up. I thought we would continue with the diamond with but with Januzaj up top with Van Persie. As it was, Van Gaal decided to go with a 4141, which didn't work too bad. It's obvious that was some sort of dress rehearsal for Chelsea.

I didn't think we weren't great yesterday, but I personally felt we did enough to win the game. Apart from the first 10 minutes in the first half, we more or less dominated the game and were the only team who really looked like scoring. West Brom, on the other hand, who sat back and countered for most of the game, had 2 shots on target and 2 goals.

I think the introduction of Fellaini in the second half changed the game. His physical presence in the box was a problem for West Brom. Just wish we got the ball in the box more. Took his goal well too. Super finish.

Hamadovich86 · Oct 21, 2014

Going forward we pass and keep the ball, create chances and score some goals but defensively the individual errors are just too frequent. Shaw for the first goal and Jones for the second. I'm not sure of the reasons for this to be honest is it because of the constant changes in the back four? Is it because van Gaal is not doing a good enough job in drilling the lads defensively ? Are our defenders just shite?

In any case the lads lose focus too frequently and it costs us. Its always some fatal error that almost always leads to a goal against us. We're still in contention for 3rd/4th so dropping points here is not the end of the world but in the context of the next few games its one we should've won.

IwatUwat · Oct 21, 2014

For me we had a few players last night who just didn't show up.

Herrera - played too far forward almost further up than Mata and didnt get on the ball at all, as he was just cramping up space, lost the ball alot too. (Im a big fan of his so this was a disappointment)
Mata - He was carried, really didnt do anything productive for me not as bad as Herrera but we're expecting creativity from him and there was none.
Shaw - He looked nervous, he would get to 30 yards from goal on the left and then cut back and give it back to a CB if Di Maria wasnt free. I understand the want to just give it to Di Maria but varying it up, overlapping, running inside etc is what I would expect minimum from him. He also got pulled out of position for their first (maybe this resulted in the cautious approach after. He did improve second half. But probably put in 3 crosses all driven all hit first man.

You can't afford to carry 3 players, and then not have RVP on top form. Unsure why we kept trying the little clipped balls over the top like trying to set up an RVP volley....these come off very rarely and 9/10 will be headed out as they were last night. Interesting to see something different but why try it 10 times in one half rather than mixing our play up a bit.

I personally thought Blind did alright, but he literally was our only CM playing in the middle. He was often left on his own with best part of 30 yards either side hence in the breakdown it was just him. Was really surprised Herrera wasnt used closer to him, to get some passing going, draw them onto us and therefore not cramp their goal with a mass of players.

Think Carrick will work well alongside Blind to keep some shape and Herrera can then keep the ball ticking when he plays like he usually does.

Fellaini although he got the goal, still looked like a donkey IMO. He should be used further forward as when he dropped depper it was almost embarrassing how slow and poor control he had. Great goal though so can't be too critical.

Thought Rojo and Jones did alright, only time Rojo looked a little shakey was when Brunt hit a long ball high over his head and the striker put him under pressure.

Chuckazulu · Oct 21, 2014

To be honest i thought we played ok even though our forwards were a letdown. But then again the West Brom defence was well composed.

Our defending wasn't that bad except Shaw had a bad game. I felt like Rafael didn't overlap a lot as compared to his previous games which was, IMO, not a good idea.

Our centre backs weren't that bad except for the positional mistake that Jones made to let Berahino through. I think the problem with this CB pairing is that they are both ball playing defenders -i might be wrong though. IMO, we need to have a limited type of defender who can be a last man in the back line. Somebody who doesn't push up so high even when we are pressing, and, I felt like Mcnair had that presence and that's why i liked him so much. For this current pair to work though our two CBs need to improve on their positioning and not only as individuals but also in relation to the other so that if one is forward the other has to be the sweeper. This would help in cases like yesterday's mistake.

I thought our midfield was a lot better, mainly Blind and Fellaini. The guys did a good job with the crucial goals.

When RvP stole the ball from Lescott, he should have passed it to Mata. That was probably a defining moment.

Chelsea is next and I can't wait to see how well we'll do.

Manucho the boss · Oct 21, 2014

IwatUwat said:
For me we had a few players last night who just didn't show up.

Herrera - played too far forward almost further up than Mata and didnt get on the ball at all, as he was just cramping up space, lost the ball alot too. (Im a big fan of his so this was a disappointment)
Mata - He was carried, really didnt do anything productive for me not as bad as Herrera but we're expecting creativity from him and there was none.
Shaw - He looked nervous, he would get to 30 yards from goal on the left and then cut back and give it back to a CB if Di Maria wasnt free. I understand the want to just give it to Di Maria but varying it up, overlapping, running inside etc is what I would expect minimum from him. He also got pulled out of position for their first (maybe this resulted in the cautious approach after. He did improve second half. But probably put in 3 crosses all driven all hit first man.

You can't afford to carry 3 players, and then not have RVP on top form. Unsure why we kept trying the little clipped balls over the top like trying to set up an RVP volley....these come off very rarely and 9/10 will be headed out as they were last night. Interesting to see something different but why try it 10 times in one half rather than mixing our play up a bit.

I personally thought Blind did alright, but he literally was our only CM playing in the middle. He was often left on his own with best part of 30 yards either side hence in the breakdown it was just him. Was really surprised Herrera wasnt used closer to him, to get some passing going, draw them onto us and therefore not cramp their goal with a mass of players.

Think Carrick will work well alongside Blind to keep some shape and Herrera can then keep the ball ticking when he plays like he usually does.

Fellaini although he got the goal, still looked like a donkey IMO. He should be used further forward as when he dropped depper it was almost embarrassing how slow and poor control he had. Great goal though so can't be too critical.

Thought Rojo and Jones did alright, only time Rojo looked a little shakey was when Brunt hit a long ball high over his head and the striker put him under pressure.

Fair Summary I think.

I said prematch that it was a good team on paper but I was worried it was a bit soft for a team looking for our 1st away win this season.

I hope Herrera was still suffering from that rib injury because I can't accept a centre mid that shirks 50/50 tackles.

Mata is a talented player in home games when we're already leading and he has space to play behind a striker, he has very little purpose playing in tough, tight away games. He kept dropping deep and just playing 5 yard sideways passes last night, that's not good enough for Mourinho and it shouldn't be good enough for us either.

The less said about Januzaj the better, in his defence he hasn't had many minutes on the pitch this season so it was a big ask to expect him to come in and take up Rooney's mantle.

I've been against him coming here since his Everton days but credit to Fellaini last night. Winter is coming and the conditions don't always allow beautiful football. I do think it's a waste of Di Maria's talent just asking him to lump it into the box constantly but it can be difficult to defend then desperate times call for desperate measures.

Turnip · Oct 21, 2014

I've not seen the highlights, only the stats, but it made me wonder how we didn't win this tbh even though it sounds like basically the whole team had a bad game. However, a last minute come back goal did remind me of the olden days, I really want that never beaten spirit to carry on. Though of course it would remind me more if another 1 or 2 crept in too.

Manucho the boss · Oct 21, 2014

Turnip said:
I've not seen the highlights, only the stats, but it made me wonder how we didn't win this tbh even though it sounds like basically the whole team had a bad game. However, a last minute come back goal did remind me of the olden days, I really want that never beaten spirit to carry on. Though of course it would remind me more if another 1 or 2 crept in too.

The stats don't tell the whole story unfortunately. We were behind for long spells of the match so were obviously going to have more possession, that's a fairly well known stat, think it was worked out as on average a team taking the lead in a match surrender about 10% possession to the opposition after that.

The stats also say we had plenty of shots (not sure if crosses the keeper caught were counted) but real chances were few and far between. Our corners didn't look dangerous until Fellaini came on.

We did have some good come backs last season, Stoke and Hull stick out in my memory, we really pushed late on against Sunderland in the cup too. So I don't think k it's fair to say it's only something we did in the past.

Mk1988 · Oct 21, 2014

Ramshock said:
How much longer do we have to put up with drama queen newb posts?

How is that drama queen?? Just stating the fact that our captain last night didn't want to be there?? Just cos I'm a newbie I'm not allowed to voice my opinion??

cjg-888 · Oct 21, 2014

Anyone see wisdom call the ball boy a pri*k after passing the ball to him too slowly?

MrMancunianRed · Oct 22, 2014

To be fair to our players they worked their socks off. Good character shown but every player need to fulfill their job not just attack wise or defense but both. Many of you guys criticized defense for the goals we conceded. But if we see the play that lead to 2 West Brom goals, it will be totally a different story. The problem is not just Defense but also defensive duties of all other players. We saw Sir Alex furious when midfield and strikers failed to do their defense duties.

West Brom's first goal started when Di Maria gave a poor switch pass, RVP then pressurize their keeper who kicks into midfield where WBA player was left alone with 20 yards of space in front of him towards his own goal(Mata and Herrara are near their wingers leaving Blind alone). Luke Shaw tried to win a ball at a place where he is completely out of position. This goal could be easily avoided if Di Maria did less of that Hollywood Pass or if RVP didn't pressurize keeper(We cannot question this) or if Luke Shaw make a decision of either winning the ball or fouling the player to stop the play knowing that no one is behind him to cover WBA player on the wing. Take a card for the team.

West Brom Second goal was again completely utter lack of discipline and defense capabilities of midfielders. Fellaini is just a standing tree in midfield whose contribution on defense is zero. The goal started from their own keeper. The play lead to situation where Right side of our field is left with 4 west Brom Players vs 3 United (Blind, Rafael, Jones). Rafael marking a player on his wing, Blind covered one and Fellaini is watching them play.This lead to Jones pressing high leaving Berhino alone upfront. I still think David De Gea should be a little bit quick of his line when defense is pressing high. He need to improve on 1v1 situations. This might be too much to ask but great goal keepers always make their presence in these situations.

I think Herrara need to get match fit, our young defense need to make better decisions, Midfield should offer more protection. Mata is looking naive in his creativity and offering less or no defensive work. For our game with West Brom we left our Young defense alone with no or zero defense duties from RVP, Januzaj, Mata, Fellaini, Di Maria. We can give exceptions to some players but not all.

I can see signs of improvement from our team - Rooney replacing for Mata and fit Herrara for Fellaini. These guys are good defensively. Hope for the best.

Rudi j · Oct 22, 2014

What an idiot I am, wrong thread.

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