Yeah but just not realistic for many countries especially bigger ones. Who wouldn't want a Scandinavian style model.
Healthcare
- Thread starter RDCR07
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Nah, the culture there is rancid to the core. It's an absolute shit hole.
I'm speechless. If that graph is accurate... well honestly it's astounding Americans aren't burning down insurance company offices.
Why isn't it realistic for bigger countries, though?
Yeah, the states have more money per capita than Denmark so the money should be there. Especially if you start with just healthcare and keep education pay to win.
Brainwashed
Taxes will in fact be lower for large countries like the US.
Economics of Scale.
Economics of Scale.
People want Single Payer. But the politicians who take money from Health Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industries are willing to let people die so they can remain in power.
All quite simple actually.
And we are all encouraged to vote for people who want to maintain these structures....err because the other guy is worse.
Why not? Isn't Canada a bit similar? Unlike Norway, Denmark doesn't have a unlimited amount of oil money for a welfare state. It's the welfare model that breeds wealth excatly because of Social mobility and high education. You can take any education or high education here without being indebted for most of your adult of life with student loans. I can't see why social democracy cannot work in bigger countries apart from the lack of will. In my opinion the problem with the US is they equate socialism with communism or stalinism. Social Democracy ala the scandanavian model is a whole different beast.
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That's it really.
The Socialism BS is pushed by media.
Politicians will say anything to deflect from what they are really doing, taking money from Banks, Health Insurance, Armaments industry...you name it.
Everything except serving the American people.
The scale of a country is just an excuse for free health care an education. All countries would be able to do it till a certain degree (high degree) with some advantages and disadvantages
Sorry but this is a very simplistic view. Again I'm not surprised Red Dreams holds this view but lack of will is definitely not the main issue.
For the United States to turn into a Scandinavian model would be a total system change. The issues are ten times more complex.
Size is not an advantage in this case. There's a reason startup companies can change so fast compared to conglomerates like say IBM. A lot of American politicians have the will as well.
The scandanevian model is awesome and all but your average person that goes "why can't we be like Denmark" doesn't even realize how innovation work.
A simple example is drug research. Big pharma ain't no saint by any means but American research into drugs is what subsidizes cheap prices around the world. It's easy to complain about a drug costing $1000 dollars but the majority of people don't even know why these drugs are "overpriced" in America or how drug research would suffer a major setback if America was forced to charge the same as the rest of the world.
I mean here's a Danish drug company paying a crap ton of money to American politicians. Even Europe knows how important American research into the drug market is.
https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00424838&cycle=2014
Again, my point is it ain't that simple. Laughable to just suggest lack of will
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With all due Respect, I trust Bernie Sanders who says it can be done even if it means in tiers pretty quickly rather than what any libertarian says.
He sited the implementation of the 1965 Medicare Statute.
He sited the implementation of the 1965 Medicare Statute.
And I just want to say (in hopes that you don't resort to the same old "your dumb" statements) that what you're saying about the media pushing "socialism" as an evil thing is also true and I don't deny that. Still, not that simple
A place like America has more extremes. Blue collar workers are suffering hard and there are some major problems with poverty and the lower spectrum. These issues need to be fixed.
However, your average professional enjoys a higher/comparable standard of living in the states than scandanavia imo. If you compare starting salaries of an Engineer in the U.S versus any of the Scandanavian states, even with the average loans you have to take here you end up earning more.
Most professionals have free healthcare as well so it's not like you pay for social benefits you'd get free in Europe (but yes, that's just wrong and everyone should have it free)
This also has a lot to do with the strength of professional industries here and just how far ahead they are than other countries.
I'm not a 100% fan of the system just pointing out pros and cons. You don't have to like a system to accept it has its benefits
The starting wage for engineers is extremely comfortable in Scandinavia, sure it's better elsewhere. But people need to get away from this idea that you absolutely need more even though you're comfortable, how many TVs do you need? Of course if you start out several hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt when you're out of uni, I can see why you want to earn it back.
I'm more than fine with ~$7000 per month, a 40 hour work week and 6 weeks of vacation each year. And partly financed pension schemes, free healthcare and education and a social safety net if I'm out of a job.
Please stop putting words in my mouth.
Thanks for agreeing that the media pushes the "socialism" garbage.
With all due respect if Bernie says it can be done, it can be done.
Of course there will be teething issues with any new policy.
Pharma companies spend comparable amounts on advertising and R&D.
Pharma R&D spending gets tax breaks.
Pharma companies haven't managed to generate a new class of antibiotic for more than a decade, I suspect because this expensive long-term critical research is less prioritised than more commercially advantageous quick successes.
Pharma companies benefit from NIH and NSF basic research, funded by US taxpayers, which taxpayers do not benefit from. For example, a cancer treatment based on immune response to the polio virus was first discovered by NIH and nonprofit-funded scientists but if approved, the profit will go to a pharma startup that stepped in at the clinical trial stage.
Pharma companies have quarterly profits in the 9-figure range.
The main economic challenge of larger countries from a government point of view is the diversity. Government's efforts in the economy are usually related to try and organize something, and it's easier to organize the more homogeneous - and I'm not for an effing second talking about race or anything, I mean industries.
Government administrated healthcare I think is doable in the US. Not some expert insight, just broadly observing the GDP per capita being higher than many other countries that do it. But I don't think you can wholesale apply the scandinavian model to the US and come out with a better country.
Government administrated healthcare I think is doable in the US. Not some expert insight, just broadly observing the GDP per capita being higher than many other countries that do it. But I don't think you can wholesale apply the scandinavian model to the US and come out with a better country.
With all due respect, the GOP code word for using 'homogeneous' is race...not saying it is you. But to address what you said about Industries meaning People employed in Insurance and any other artificially created such, it is a matter of transition.
Those who profited billions will just have to deal with it.
The rest of the comparisons with the Scandinavian model is not relevant other than the simple fact Single Payer is doable.
Once again in such a large country like the US you get economies of scale. In the long run costs actually will drop drastically in terms of what is needed for payroll tax rates.
If you're earning 7k a month net in Scandinavia you're an anomaly. (As a new grad)
Like I said I'm only arguing about the student debt argument for most professionals.
Now as usual with these convos I'm gonna end up getting labelled as complete pro capitalists but I just wish people pointed out pros and cons of a system. You can still be a fan of the Scandinavian model while agreeing to pros and cons of a different model.
This is all a lie perpetrated by the marketing and PR of big pharma.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20170602.060376/full/
And lest we forget
Insulin is a 100-year-old drug whose wholesale price has tripled in ten years. The reasons why explain everything wrong with America’s broken prescription drug market.
https://prospect.org/article/insulin-racket
Thank you.
the prices charged on new patented drugs are very high, about 30--50 times manufacturing costs. One reason why Americans pay even more is that our political leaders are richly rewarded by an army of more than 1,000 lobbyists to not set up an independent agency to determine fair prices that reflect the added clinical value for patients.
the prices charged on new patented drugs are very high, about 30--50 times manufacturing costs. One reason why Americans pay even more is that our political leaders are richly rewarded by an army of more than 1,000 lobbyists to not set up an independent agency to determine fair prices that reflect the added clinical value for patients.
Manufacturing costs arent the biggest cost why dont people understand this . Obviously it will be bigger it's like arguing over an artist charging 100 dollars for a 15 minute sketch.
I will read the article later but in the past such articles I've read always compare apples to oranges to draw some weird conclusion about drug prices
Firstly whether the cost is the biggest or not it is artificially inflated.
But I was specifically referring to Politicians being bought and paid for by lobbyists to not set up an independent agency to determine fair pricing.
Do you realize Danish drug companies paid lobbyists as well to keep drug prices lower in denmark ?
It's not just the u.s. drug's are expensive here but the world is getting benefited from it. I cant believe people genuinely think this whole drug research cost thing is a myth.
Getting an approved drug on the market costs a fortune for the companies of course they will charge a premium else there will be no more drug research the bulk of which comes from the u.s
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"This is America"
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"This Is America"
325.000 USD
How insane is that? and a guy with insurance. Imagine who can't afford it. From a european point of view is madness, it just doesn't compute in my brain the stupidity of the USA health care system
How insane is that? and a guy with insurance. Imagine who can't afford it. From a european point of view is madness, it just doesn't compute in my brain the stupidity of the USA health care system
Its not stupid.
The politicians and parties are owned by the Industry.
They live off the blood of people.
In short they are murderers.
Is stupid coming from the average Joe that defends that system that are millions of them
They have been brainwashed by the media.
Ergo they are stupid. No media could brainwash me with those numbers
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normal country
Health care for all and fecking normal people also. Would never happen among my family and friends. EVER
obamacare is shit
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