How much time is enough time to gauge Ole?

JPRouve said:

There is no doubt that we need more quality players, our team is clearly too light but I feel that Ole will prove to be a problem. Now I could be wrong and he is a top level manager but I don't see it.

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No, I agree. I love Ole. He gave me and loads of other people on this forum and who support the club one of the very best moments in our memories ... but that was as a player, not a manager. He shouldn't be given a free ride.

I was cautious when he was brought in to replace Jose, his career with Cardiff was a car crash of very bad management and Molde aren't and never will be a stepping stone for Utd but he won me over when we went on that run last year. Since then he has come massively undone and now looks out of his depth with little evidence of improvements to our playing style and results.

I'm all for giving him the rest of the season, I'm not a knee jerk guy, but he must prove his worth here.

Im losing faith in Ole.
We play boring football,we barely score goals and our away form is awful.
Dont see a plan at all,makes me wonder what we do on the training pitch.

Feel a bit bad for him,he has got the weakest United squad i have ever seen,with only a couple of experienced players who are way past it.
That being said,i can tolerate bad results if we play some entertaining football but its lifless,boring football with barely any chances created and goals scored.
He must turn this around fast or i think he will be gone soon.

Get rid of him asap

Everyone needs to forget that he is a legend and his past and judge him as any manager. He has already had more time than any other manager at any other club would get in normal circumstances. But for some reason he should get years and years.

Think he's way out of his depth but want to give it to the end of the season anyway, and ic things start improving, who knows.
More importantly the board should be planning a long term strategy for the club and lining up a manager who fits the bill.

My issue is he shows no passion on or off the pitch, and the player performances reflect this.

DatIrishFella said:

He needs the same time Jose got. He's dealing with our worst squad decades. Let the man build a team.

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Nah, no manager deserves a certain amount of time (and 2.5 years) regardless of peformances/results.

Volumiza said:

This. So many people, myself included, keep saying these players are rubbish. They shouldn't be. They are top footballers who have fought their way through the youth system to get where they are. They should all have the correct attitude and be able to pass, run, shoot and score. They need managing and coaching.

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I wouldn't say that we have top players. We do have talent but we also have glaring weaknesses. But it's not an excuse to be unable to play as a team. Many mid table sides are more impressive than us as a collective.

I think we give him until at least Christmas and if he’s had a full squad available to him but the results are still the same then it needs seriously looking at, the problem then though is that we’re back to exactly where we were last Christmas when Ole came in.

The problem is Woodward brought Ole in as a feel good appointment and it was such a feel good factor that we went on that amazing run and Woodward fancied himself as a genius as he thought he’d luckily struck gold with Ole so appointed Ole full time, I won’t lie I myself changed my opinion from wanting Pocchettino to Ole as I got caught up in the romance of ‘number 20 coming back 20 years after his defining moment to lead us’ thing too.

What we should have done is keep Ole on as caretaker whilst working on bringing Pocchettino in and then once Pocchettino was possibly brought in move Ole upstairs as Director Of Football due to his knowledge of the club, the way we want to play and as a thank you for his caretaker role which I think would have worked.

The question is WHO do we bring in if we get rid of Ole as I don’t see anyone leaving their club at this stage of the season and who is there that’s available that would be deemed good enough ? Allegri is basically like going back to LVG and Jose and everyone else available isn’t good enough to fix our problems.

A name I’ll throw out randomly that I’d be fine with coming in as a caretaker and who might like the challenge on a short term basis is Frank Rijkaard, he rejuvenated Barca and it was his work that laid the platform for Pep to achieve what he did at Barca.

Rijkaard said he won’t pursue management work but that doesn’t mean he’d turn down a short term caretaker role at one of the biggest clubs in the world if offered. He plays attacking football and demands players work hard and press the opposition whilst commanding respect due to be one of the greatest players in his position ever, Rijkaard as caretaker and Pocchettino taking over on July 1st with his plans already set works for me.

My opinion is that Ole will never be the man to restore 'the glory days', I dont buy he's as bad as people make out because he certainly got the team playing and did a number on a number of so called better managers last season but yeah he quite obviously isn't of the standard that a Man Utd manager should be

That being said I like what he's doing in terms of the rebuild, he's getting rid of players who should never have been here in the first place and is replacing them with the right type.

How much time is he given? Feck knows. It depends on how bad things get. Right now things are bad, we're the worst we've been post Fergie and who thought it could get any worse. Away form is bad, home form is bad, cant score goals, cant keep cleansheets, add all those things together and you're looking at relegation form so obviously he'll be gone before that even becomes a thought in anyone's mind. At the end of the day the boards intention may have been to give Ole 3 or 4 transfer windows (although realistically not much can be done in half of those given it's January) but if the results dont improve and we start slipping into the bottom half of the table they'll have to act whether they want to or not

End of next season, provided we can at least stay competitive in the meantime. Short term thinking brought us into this mess, and short term thinking won't get us out of it. Get rid of Ole, then the next manager obviously doesn't immediately turn things around with the same squad, because how the hell can he, fire him too, the next guy fails similarly, let's fire him, he's a fraud! We must find that one magic manager who can turn water into wine!

The simple truth is that we lack quality in midfield and attack, especially with a number of injuries, and it will take another couple of windows for Ole to bring in just the right players in those areas, like he did this summer with our three signings. You could hire Pep or Klopp and they would struggle the same way with this bunch. Success in football requires good work by everybody in the club over a number of years, it's not simply a matter of firing one manager after the other and hope for a miracle. We can keep doing that and never get anywhere. And for every new manager we have to reset the plan and sign a different type of player to suit the new manager's preferences.

But we are seeing a shift in approach by the club now, maybe it's not enough, but it's a start. We have bought well this summer (but not enough) and moved on some players. They went for Ole instead of an LVG/Mourinho type of manager (i.e. proven world class winners who couldn't make it work). This could be the beginning of something, but it's going to take patience.

charlenefan said:

My opinion is that Ole will never be the man to restore 'the glory days', I dont buy he's as bad as people make out because he certainly got the team playing and did a number on a number of so called better managers last season but yeah he quite obviously isn't of the standard that a Man Utd manager should be

That being said I like what he's doing in terms of the rebuild, he's getting rid of players who should never have been here in the first place and is replacing them with the right type.

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This is where I'm at on it. I like a lot of what he's done while he's been manager and think he is the right man for the job currently. It would be crazy to get rid of him at this point anyway in my opinion.

I like the type of players he is trying to bring in and he definitely appears to be getting rid of the negative influences from the dressing room, I'm happy with his transfer ideas over the next few transfer windows. Do I think he'd be the right man for the job once he's been through a few windows and completed a rebuild? Probably not but I'd certainly stick with him for the next couple of years.

JB7 said:

This is where I'm at on it. I like a lot of what he's done while he's been manager and think he is the right man for the job currently. It would be crazy to get rid of him at this point anyway in my opinion.

I like the type of players he is trying to bring in and he definitely appears to be getting rid of the negative influences from the dressing room, I'm happy with his transfer ideas over the next few transfer windows. Do I think he'd be the right man for the job once he's been through a few windows and completed a rebuild? Probably not but I'd certainly stick with him for the next couple of years.

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Of course to completely contradict myself if he's not the right man for the future why should we stick with him to complete the rebuild? God things are just so bad

I personally think he needs a bit more time with the proviso that that mid-field can't start in the league again. It should be clear to anyone the team desperately need midfield reinforcements in Jan, and that not replacing Herrera/Fellaini is on Ed and not Ole. Does anyone really think the board had piles of money ready to go and Ole said no you're alright it'll be grand?

The big question for all those saying he should go is who is available that could come in and do better with this squad? It's all well and good firing another manager but not if there isn't anyone to bring in.

He’s had some time to show what’s he’s capable of if given more time, but since he’s been here has any player improved?! Pogba was our bright spark for about 10-15 games last year but even he has fizzled out (why play him so deep when he’s clearly better further up?). Since PSG, we have been dreadful.

This is his squad. He made the decision not to replace Lukaku & let Sanchez go. Not replacing Herrera was a terrible decision. Yes, Woodward is a clueless cnut & we really need a DoF, but Ole has to be held responsible too for the state of the squad.

If there was a pattern to our play I’d be all for giving him more time, but we turn up each game without having a clue how to string together an attack. We create next to nothing against teams that we should be better than. Tactically we are clueless. It’s just so predictable how we’re going to play, there is no plan B & plan A is utter shit. At the moment it seems we’re hoping James or Greenwood can do some magic each game & get a goal. That’s unacceptable. The team has to be coached to play better as a unit, but they go onto the pitch each week & are clueless what to do. That is on the manager & coaching staff.

Ole is a legend but he’s proven nothing in his managerial career to suggest he can be trusted to resolve the problems at United. That said, I think he will be given until the end of the season, unless things continue as they are.

Until December. But if we nose dive down the league before then he should go sooner.

Eric7C said:

Pep - Champion in Spain, Germany and Europe prior to joining City. Won the title in England in his second season - he wasn't given three years. He was given one, and in that one year, he illustrated a clear method of coaching and tactics.
Klopp - Champion in Germany in a league dominated by Bayern. Reached a European final. Now Champion of Europe. Clear method of coaching and tactics.

Ole? Champion in Norway. Relegated in England. Coaching and tactics? None visible.

There is no comparison.

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There was talk of Pep being fired by City fans after his first season but he was heavily backed in that second summer.
There were also Liverpool fans calling for Klopp to go after the third season and 'no progress' according to some of them.
What about Pochettino? Did average at Sociedad, did okay at Southampton done well at Spurs, he doesn't have a glittering managerial career but it took him three years ti implement and change a clubs culture.

You don't have to have prior trophy haul to know what you're doing. Most managers start out with nothing and earn that over time.

Solskjaer has to be given three years before we actually see if he's up to it otherwise we're just going around in circles and will never improve.

He'll get the season IMO. We won't finish top 4 and he'll manage to get rid of the deadwood in the meantime. I can see us going for Poch to replace him as I don't see the latter being at Spurs for much longer.

charlenefan said:

Of course to completely contradict myself if he's not the right man for the future why should we stick with him to complete the rebuild? God things are just so bad

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Because I think he's the right manager to get rid of the personalities we don't want at the club and also to bring in the right type of players and personalities we do want at the club. Would I necessarily think he would be able to mould those players into a dominant team that would compete with City and Liverpool? I don't know and that's when I think any change should come.

I'm loathe to get into the expected goals stats as I don't like it but I would image they look favourable on us this season so far. While our overall performances have been poor, we've created big opportunities that we haven't taken in every game we haven't won and goals against have been largely individual errors and/or set pieces. If we were more clinical we'd be looking at a much more positive start so far - which is exactly why Solskjaer said in pre-season we wouldn't let Lukaku go without replacing him, before the board undermined him anyway.

amolbhatia50k said:

I wouldn't say that we have top players. We do have talent but we also have glaring weaknesses. But it's not an excuse to be unable to play as a team. Many mid table sides are more impressive than us as a collective.

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Any player that has ended up playing in the premier league, the hardest and best league in world football, regardless of what team they play for is a top player.

And I agree, some mid and lower table teams look better coached than us.

His time at Cardiff and Molde was enough to gauge that he's a clown. Clown Ole.

charlenefan said:

Of course to completely contradict myself if he's not the right man for the future why should we stick with him to complete the rebuild? God things are just so bad

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I have the same issue. The way I see it, I do believe that he was right to get rid of the players that left and I don't think that he is actively hurting the team. Now I also think that he should use the kids a lot more, simply because the senior players that he is using instead of them have nothing to give and playing them regularly doesn't really help the club long term.
For example I think that it would have been more sensible to use Greenwood as Martial's replacement and keep Rashford and James respectively on the left and right wings because when Martial will be back that's what will happen and we wasted a month of experience in those roles.

We've had several managers who have all failed. I don't think the manager is the main problem and besides, I'm fed up of turning on them like I did with Moyes, LvG and Mou. I would rather just back Ole at this point

Pace Abuser said:

His time at Cardiff and Molde was enough to gauge that he's a clown. Clown Ole.

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Have all of your 1156 posts been as good as this one?

Green_Red said:

I think people need to come to terms with the fact that a new manager is not going to help this team. Only rebuilding the squad is going to do it. Theres no magic pill anyone could give these payers to suddenly make them title contenders. Ole should be given the time it takes to rebuild the squad regardless of where we end up in the league.

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Spot on. There is no manager in the world short of Mandrake the Magician who can wave his hands in a mystical gesture and produce a top defensive midfielder, a striker, and the other players the team still needs. If Ole was sacked, the new manager would still be stuck with with the same dross Ole is. Ole isn't perfect, but switching managers won't magically make this United team good: there is no manager in the world who can turn, for instance, Matic into a good player, and yet he is the player we are stuck with.

These failures are on Woodward and the Glazers, not Ole.

The way the season is developing I can’t see him surviving beyond the end of the year. The whole club is a complete joke at this stage and sacking him in not solve it but when we are bottom half at Christmas the pressure will become unbearable.

Jippy said:

There was obviously that massive feelgood factor round the club, results were great, the fans were happy and it seemed a good idea to many at the time. You seem to be airbrushing that fact away.

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Yeah it's not at all revisionist. At the time there were pundits/journos and fans questioning the appt as it seemed to based on the feel-good factor rather than getting the right man for the long-term, as per the plan laid out when Ole was appointed caretaker.

Why are we having the same conversations year after year ... the biggest factor in this club doesn't appear to be the head coach, after several years of the exact same issues but 5 or 6 coaches

We've been through Moyes, LVG, Mou & now Ole. If things don't improve then I'm not so sure it's the Manager...
Ole needs to continue clearing the trash from the squad however something just isn't right in the background.
Either the players are still too arrogant to take up his teachings or he needs to start thinking outside the square.
I bet if you gave every other team almost a billion pound over a space of 7 years to spend on players, you can be damn sure they'll consistently finish top 4.

Jippy said:

Anyway, we are where we are and Woodward seems to sail through all of this shite unscathed.

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This is unfortunately true and will continue to be true. Ed fulfils his end of the deal to the Glazers, he keeps making them money.

7 years minimum

Jippy said:

Yeah people questioned it too, but plenty were on board. Anyway, we are where we are and Woodward seems to sail through all of this shite unscathed.

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I'm not so sure. The ex-players seem to be allergic to point the finger at him but it's becoming more and more obvious to everyone else that Woodward is the problem. I'm hoping the pressure comes on him big-time and he steps away from the football side.

beingshe7don said:

Gage is how its spelled in America. But sure....

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Let's call the whole thing off.

It doesn't really matter because the season is already a write off.
If we were in the bottom half of the league by Christmas, I'd be tempted to draft in Roy Keane till the end of the season.
Never thought I'd say that.

But desperate times..............

vidic blood & sand said:

It doesn't really matter because the season is already a write off.
If we were in the bottom half of the league by Christmas, I'd be tempted to draft in Roy Keane till the end of the season.
Never thought I'd say that.

But desperate times..............

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Why is every season is a write off.

Ole got 3/4 of a free ride last season to fully experiment and get to know his squad. We're not talking about him taking over with 4 games left.

He has had a lot of time to make us at least compete with the likes of Palace, West Ham etc. You just have to look at Lampard, Rodgers - they all got appointed after OGS.

Another 3 years. Enough time to get us relegated

Nick. said:

We've had several managers who have all failed. I don't think the manager is the main problem and besides, I'm fed up of turning on them like I did with Moyes, LvG and Mou. I would rather just back Ole at this point

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It doesn't matter if he's the main problem it's whether he's the man to bring us back to success. Recruitment seems good if not mismanaged but that's about it.

I'm hoping he plays youth and then goes at the end of the season. I'll give him January to see how he does with another signing.