Cristiano Ronaldo should go down as top 5-6 players of all time

Bobcat · Feb 4, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
The only thing I cannot understand is how high some people rate Fat Ronaldo as among top 5.

Agreed.

No doubt he was incredibly good at his peak, but it a fair bit of nostaliga goggles at work here imo and he was really on top for a short period compared to C Ronaldo and Messi

Gio · Feb 4, 2021

SportingCP96 said:
I have posted about this in detail before.

The level of play in the league was of your average Sunday league game results regular ended 11-0 9-0 etc.
2 World Cup wins(one of his 3 he was injured out early on so that has a *) and in both he was not the best player on the team.

People who have seen him play say garrincha was the best of the two and as far as pure talent and ability especially higher level of competition R9 is easily better.

Lots of people in Brazil actually feel that way.

He was the first known world star but the level of competition he played was literally garbage. He does not light a candle to Maradona, Messi, or Ronaldo.

Pele isn’t top of my list but you can drive a truck through these myths.

Standard of play - Pele was miles ahead of everyone he faced from the 1950s through to 1970. That ranged from regional opponents at one end, to the best players in the world at the other. Whoever he faced, be it his World Cup team-mates in the Brazilian national competitions, to the top South American sides (Penarol were the best club side in the world for much of the 1960s), to the best European opposition (his demolitions of Benfica, Milan and Juventus at club level or the likes of France, West Germany, Soviet Union and Italy at international level). He came up against all the best players of the era - including all-time GOATs like Beckenbauer and Figueroa - and shared the pitch with attacking greats such as Di Stefano, Eusebio, Charlton, Muller and Spencer - and was still seen as the undisputed star. Choosing to ignore all that high quality opposition is the same thing as saying Cristiano Ronaldo scored his goals against the part-timers of Faroe Islands, Andorra and Luxembourg. Complete nonsense of course, but in recent years it's a position that's gained traction as part of an effort to piss on his record.
Garrincha the better player - this view has only really arose since Ruy Castro's biography was written a few years ago. It's only held by a few romantics who preferred the flawed genius personality, or hipsters who don't want to follow the mainstream. Everywhere else people saw Pele as the more multi-faceted, accomplished and superior player. While Garrincha has a solid case for being the best right-winger of all time (second only to Messi in my view), the rest of his game wasn't as polished as Pele's, where his decision-making and passing fell short, while he didn't have the same breadth in his toolkit for scoring goals. Unfortunately Garrincha only seems to appear in these debates in an attempt to play down how good Pele was.

dinostar77 · Feb 4, 2021

matsdf said:
Sure, I get your point that he is not an artist to the same extent as those guys. But the thread title does not say "top 5 artists of all time". For me its very weird to only discuss artistry and not winning mentality when it comes to "best footballer of all time".

True the title doesnt say top artists of all time. You raise an interesting point. The unparalleled consistency of CR7 and Messi has changed the debate somewhat about the best footballer of all time. Before these two, the top players would reach the summit and stay at the peak for 2-3 years before a dropoff. It was unrealistic to expect them to mantain such high levels of consistency. But CR7 and Messi have done that.

CR7 is an outlier or a new 21st century football archetype for what a truly elite modern footballer should be like. You could fairly argue that he isnt as naturally talented as some the the "artists", but through sheer hard work and unparelled determination he has made himself an elite footballer. The work he has done on maginal gains, mentality, physical, biometrics etc is all to an extreme very few players ever do. Is CR7 an outlier or will we see other players in the future as dedicated to honing their abilities as CR7? I dont know. I cant think of many footballers who have reinvented themselves winger - physically strong striker - lithe quick forward.

Until they both retire we dont know who will be the GOAT for sheer consistency i.e CR7 or Messi.

2mufc0 · Feb 4, 2021

It's impossible to create a numerical top '5' '10' etc as it's so subjective. I see it more in terms of tiers and he belongs in the very top one for sure.

Dirty Schwein · Feb 4, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
I am just responding to the thread starter who refers him as “fat Ronaldo”. I normally would call him L.Ronaldo.

Sure, in terms of natural ability, he is one of the best. In terms of everything, he isn’t anywhere near to the greatest.

I was only messing. Call him whatever you want.

I agree with that point.

Bebestation · Feb 4, 2021

It's just because he hasnt retired yet.

When he retires people will miss him and rate him where he belongs.

youmeletsfly · Feb 4, 2021

dinostar77 said:
One of these threads again? Football has been around for 100 years now. There are many players who should make the pantheon of the elite who some would never have heard of.

Giuseppe Meazza. Won 2 world cups. Inter Milans all time top goalscorer. Has a stadium named after him (AC/Inter stadium).

Stanley Matthews, Alfred Di Stefano, Ferenc Puskas etc. Football changes era by era and the eras arent comparable.

In another 80 years time, Messi and Ronaldo will be down the bottom of a list or forgotton by the majority of fans, as new heroes of their eras replace them.

This is a very good view of the topic at hand. Plus, we can only discuss who's better in our time. To make a top of all the players in the last 100 years isn't exactly right in my opinion.

NasirTimothy · Feb 4, 2021

Gio said:
Pele isn’t top of my list but you can drive a truck through these myths.

Standard of play - Pele was miles ahead of everyone he faced from the 1950s through to 1970. That ranged from regional opponents at one end, to the best players in the world at the other. Whoever he faced, be it his World Cup team-mates in the Brazilian national competitions, to the top South American sides (Penarol were the best club side in the world for much of the 1960s), to the best European opposition (his demolitions of Benfica, Milan and Juventus at club level or the likes of France, West Germany, Soviet Union and Italy at international level). He came up against all the best players of the era - including all-time GOATs like Beckenbauer and Figueroa - and shared the pitch with attacking greats such as Di Stefano, Eusebio, Charlton, Muller and Spencer - and was still seen as the undisputed star. Choosing to ignore all that high quality opposition is the same thing as saying Cristiano Ronaldo scored his goals against the part-timers of Faroe Islands, Andorra and Luxembourg. Complete nonsense of course, but in recent years it's a position that's gained traction as part of an effort to piss on his record.

Garrincha the better player - this view has only really arose since Ruy Castro's biography was written a few years ago. It's only held by a few romantics who preferred the flawed genius personality, or hipsters who don't want to follow the mainstream. Everywhere else people saw Pele as the more multi-faceted, accomplished and superior player. While Garrincha has a solid case for being the best right-winger of all time (second only to Messi in my view), the rest of his game wasn't as polished as Pele's, where his decision-making and passing fell short, while he didn't have the same breadth in his toolkit for scoring goals. Unfortunately Garrincha only seems to appear in these debates in an attempt to play down how good Pele was.

Absolutely, everything you’ve written here is correct and easily verifiable with a bit of research. In 1999, France football asked all the previous Ballon D’Or winners to select the player of the century. Pele won by an absolute landslide (Diego was a distant second). So 30 or so of the greatest people to ever put on boots think Pele is the best by a wide margin and yet people on here are claiming he’s overrated? Let’s be sensible people....

Pocho · Feb 4, 2021

1 Messi
2 Maradona
3 Pele
4 Ronaldo
5 CR

Top Five.

R0nald0 · Feb 4, 2021

It's impossible to compare generations, such is the evolution of human athleticism and training from one generation to another and the clear recency bias that occurs. It's also very unfair to compare players in different positions. That being said, it's hard to argue that the stats show that Messi/CR7 are head and shoulders the best 2 players of all time.

NasirTimothy · Feb 4, 2021

R0nald0 said:
It's impossible to compare generations, such is the evolution of human athleticism and training from one generation to another and the clear recency bias that occurs. It's also very unfair to compare players in different positions. That being said, it's hard to argue that the stats show that Messi/CR7 are head and shoulders the best 2 players of all time.

The stats don’t show that though

Matt007a · Feb 4, 2021

I think people having him outside the top 5 would be a minority really. You can't compare eras or throw stats at these things because context is everything.

Scoring 700 goals in Pele's era in the Brazilian league is not the same as scoring 700 goals in La Liga today. Equally scoring 700 goals in Serie A in the 80s and 90s would be absolutely impossible. So if you used stats alone, you'd say no one who played in Italy during that time could ever be in the top 10 strikers of all time because the numbers say so.

You can only really compare what they do next to their peers. Messi and Ronaldo have been in a different league to everyone else for 10 years. That is what puts them in the top echelon of all time greats.

Pele played in an era where there were quite a few all time greats. Best, Charlton, Garrincha, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Eusebio and more all played during his 15 year spell, but he is considered the one above all others from that time.

Maradona played with Platini, Zico, Gullit etc and again he is regarded as better than all of them.

That's what puts those players in the highest tiers and that's why both Messi and Ronaldo should feature in most people's top 5/6.

eire-red · Feb 4, 2021

Ronaldo has done it now for how many seasons, 16 or 17? Messi for me will always be out on his own in terms of what he can do with the ball, and the way he makes the game look so effortless. But I don't think we'll see the ruthless efficiency of Ronaldo for a long time.

In terms of how you rate them, I guess it comes down to what you value more. Messi's numbers are crazy, but the way he plays also sets him apart. For me, Ronaldo's numbers, and longevity put him second for me. But it's so so close.

HTG · Feb 4, 2021

I‘m just gonna keep pretending and arguing that he’s just not that good. Mainly because he seems to be the type of guy who’d get annoyed by that and I really can’t stand him.

SportingCP96 · Feb 4, 2021

Devil81 said:
How do you know he was overrated?

If Bobby Moore, Charlton and co say he was head and shoulders above them then he was a fantastic player.

By doing research.
Keep in mind when I say he is overrated I don’t mean to say he is a bad player. For his time he was a very good player and he is one of the greatest of all time.

When I say overrated I mean when talking about the absolute greatest player of all time. He Just is not. Maradona, Messi, and Ronaldo are all vastly superior to pele. That is my point.

SportingCP96 · Feb 4, 2021

Gio said:
Pele isn’t top of my list but you can drive a truck through these myths.

Standard of play - Pele was miles ahead of everyone he faced from the 1950s through to 1970. That ranged from regional opponents at one end, to the best players in the world at the other. Whoever he faced, be it his World Cup team-mates in the Brazilian national competitions, to the top South American sides (Penarol were the best club side in the world for much of the 1960s), to the best European opposition (his demolitions of Benfica, Milan and Juventus at club level or the likes of France, West Germany, Soviet Union and Italy at international level). He came up against all the best players of the era - including all-time GOATs like Beckenbauer and Figueroa - and shared the pitch with attacking greats such as Di Stefano, Eusebio, Charlton, Muller and Spencer - and was still seen as the undisputed star. Choosing to ignore all that high quality opposition is the same thing as saying Cristiano Ronaldo scored his goals against the part-timers of Faroe Islands, Andorra and Luxembourg. Complete nonsense of course, but in recent years it's a position that's gained traction as part of an effort to piss on his record.

Garrincha the better player - this view has only really arose since Ruy Castro's biography was written a few years ago. It's only held by a few romantics who preferred the flawed genius personality, or hipsters who don't want to follow the mainstream. Everywhere else people saw Pele as the more multi-faceted, accomplished and superior player. While Garrincha has a solid case for being the best right-winger of all time (second only to Messi in my view), the rest of his game wasn't as polished as Pele's, where his decision-making and passing fell short, while he didn't have the same breadth in his toolkit for scoring goals. Unfortunately Garrincha only seems to appear in these debates in an attempt to play down how good Pele was.

I said Garrincha was arguably the better player not meaning he was. In other words a debate can be had. The truth is Garrincha did carry them to World Cup glory the one World Cup Pele was injured.

A majority of Pele career was against rubbish teams played in Brazil. As I stated11-0,10-0,9-0,8-0 were all very regular scores. That’s good competition to you?

Yes he played the likes of Benfica etc and did well (because he is an all time great player). No one here said Other wise) but it does not change the fact that when comparing him to Ronaldo,Messi, and Maradona he simply can not compete.

Football has only got better (naturally) and not worse and pele played in the very early stages of its development.

When talking about thr absolute Greatest player of all time or top 3 Pele should not be there.

amolbhatia50k · Feb 4, 2021

Easily the second best I've seen. I can't really say about all time given I know feck all about past players but a random and pointless guess is that he's probably in the 2nd tier outside the absolutely greatest which would maybe include Pele, Maradona and Messi. But that's just a feeling. Based on what I've seen, he's only behind Messi.

amolbhatia50k · Feb 4, 2021

SportingCP96 said:
I said Garrincha was arguably the better player not meaning he was. The truth is Garrincha did carry them to World Cup glory the one World Cup pele was injured.

A majority of Pele career was against rubbish teams played in Brazil. As I stated11-0,10-0,9-0,8-0 were all very regular scores. That’s good competition to you?

Yes he played the likes of Benfica etc and did well (because he is an all time great player. No one here said Other wise) but it does not change the fact that when comparing him to Ronaldo,Messi, and Maradona he simply can not compete.

Football has only got better (naturally) and not worse and pele played in the very early stages of its development.

When talking about thr absolute Greatest player of all time or top 3 Pele should not be there.

In that case Messi and Ronaldo played in a very low standard of football compared to Maradona and should not be in the congression. This logic is weak. Pele is universally considered among the best 3 players to have played the game, till recently among the best 2. Only Ronaldo fans on redcafe would have him removed from the padestal in favour of "Ronnie" because he obviously can't get in ahead of Messi.

Trezeguet17 · Feb 4, 2021

Invictus said:
I mean, you are entitled to that opinion but just to nitpick with one example (among others) — why would someone like Beckenbauer rank below them (or some other Top 3 permutation that excludes him)?

Greatest player of a nation that boasts the second highest number of World Cup titles and the highest number of European Championship titles.

Greatest player of one of the most successful European clubs, Bayern Munich — who trailed 1860 Munich‎ as the biggest club in the city before Beckenbauer (something that he helped remedy).

11 times in the Top 10 of the Ballon D'Or, including twice as the winner — a testament to his consistency.

Utterly fantastic in every World Cup participation: in 1966 he was the best young player and the third highest overall scorer and needed special attention from Bobby Charlton at age 20, in 1970 he was again crucial in West Germany's march to the semi-final where he played with an arm sling in the The Match of the Century, and in 1974 he captained the vanquishers of the Dutch totaalvoetbal juggernaut — no other GOAT candidate won a World Cup by overcoming such a monstrous opponent.

Captained West Germany to the 1972 European Championship title, forming an incredibly entertaining axis with Netzer.

Captained his club to back-to-back-to-back European Cup titles.

Quite possibly the greatest defender ever and quite possibly the greatest midfielder ever, while transcending both positions/functions — no one else matches that.

Also quite possibly the greatest defensive strategist and playmaker ever, would orchestrate his team and games from the back in effortless fashion.

Aesthetically brilliant: a picture of calm, superb ball control and a delightful touch, could single-handedly transition the ball to the opposite end of the pitch.

Helped pioneer and optimize the graceful yet invigorating Libero archetype — even Baresi and Passarella were called Kaiser as an homage to the original Der Kaiser.

...and so forth.

You could argue that there's no real objectively defined Top 3 that can be held up as the universal gold-standard — as there's a fluid cohort of players that can all make a valid claim, and as observers we're swayed by hearsay, personal preference and other biases to varying degrees (like undervaluing massively influential/inspirational midfielders or defenders in relation to forwards).

Altough everybody seems to be annoyed with these kind of threads i love them just because of the discussions about players from the past. Gives me a nostalgic feeling.
And everytime i read your posts in this threads i am impressed about your football history knowledge.
This may come across as a** kissing but i really love your posts and i swear i would even pay money to read an in depth ranking/analysis of your all time Top 100 players

SportingCP96 · Feb 4, 2021

Matt007a said:
I think people having him outside the top 5 would be a minority really. You can't compare eras or throw stats at these things because context is everything.

Scoring 700 goals in Pele's era in the Brazilian league is not the same as scoring 700 goals in La Liga today. Equally scoring 700 goals in Serie A in the 80s and 90s would be absolutely impossible. So if you used stats alone, you'd say no one who played in Italy during that time could ever be in the top 10 strikers of all time because the numbers say so.

You can only really compare what they do next to their peers. Messi and Ronaldo have been in a different league to everyone else for 10 years. That is what puts them in the top echelon of all time greats.

Pele played in an era where there were quite a few all time greats. Best, Charlton, Garrincha, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Eusebio and more all played during his 15 year spell, but he is considered the one above all others from that time.

Maradona played with Platini, Zico, Gullit etc and again he is regarded as better than all of them.

That's what puts those players in the highest tiers and that's why both Messi and Ronaldo should feature in most people's top 5/6.

Another thing I don’t get about this list is the placement or tiers people place them at.

Ronaldo and Messi have been Equals on the court for dam near 15 years! Battling back and forth tugging at the thrown every season so if anyone places (just as an example) Ronaldo #1 then by default you HAVE to have Messi no lower there #2 and Vice versa. If you have Messi in tier 1 you by default have to have Ronaldo tier 1.

They literally shared the podium if there era. The Ronaldo Vs Messi debate is there for a reason because they have been equal rivals there whole careers.

I can’t take any list serious who does not have Both of them side by side wherever you place them.

SportingCP96 · Feb 4, 2021

amolbhatia50k said:
In that case Messi and Ronaldo played in a very low standard of football compared to Maradona and should not be in the congression. This logic is weak. Pele is universally considered among the best 3 players to have played the game, till recently among the best 2. Only Ronaldo fans on redcafe would have him removed from the padestal in favour of "Ronnie" because he obviously can't get in ahead of Messi.

Huh? It’s not about Removing him for Ronaldo because he is ahead of #3

Ronaldo and Messi are the 2 absolute greatest players to ever put on a pair of football boots. Which ever you choose to go 1 or 2 is subjective. Maradona is #3.

If anything I am kicking out Pele for Maradona.

No one on history has done or dominated the way Ronaldo and Messi have. Probably never will either.

** Last time I checked Maradona,Messi, and Ronaldo did not consistently take part in 11-0 thrashing’s so no it’s not a “weak” argument at all.

DCP · Feb 4, 2021

Do people actually put him below Messi?
Greatest player of all time and no comparison. Messi in a close(ish) second.

SportingCP96 · Feb 4, 2021

Ronaldo and Messi are BY FAR the GOATS of Football.

They are 1 and 2 in which ever order each individual person puts them on.

People won’t fully realize that until they are both gone.

Take pride in that the greatest players the sport will ever see played in the same era. You will never see anything like it ever again.

amolbhatia50k · Feb 4, 2021

SportingCP96 said:
Huh? It’s not about Removing him for Ronaldo because he is ahead of #3

Ronaldo and Messi are the 2 absolute greatest players to ever put on a pair of football boots. Which ever you choose to go 1 or 2 is subjective. Maradona is #3.

If anything I am kicking out Pele for Maradona.

No one on history has done or dominated the way Ronaldo and Messi have. Probably never will either.

** Last time I checked Maradona,Messi, and Ronaldo did not consistently take part in 11-0 thrashing’s so no it’s not a “weak” argument at all.

Recency bias. Messi and Ronaldo have dominated that much partly as they've had the benefit of always being in super teams. I don't buy the argument that these the two are the best ever and nobody comes close. It's just people wanting to believe their era to be the best. Every case has to be seen on its metrics.

And every generation has its own context and issues to consider, Maradona's had tougher tackling, low scoring matches, bad pitches, better defenders, not much sports science/professionalism, and a greater emphasis on international football. In his context he's a all time great contender. In the context of football of Pele's he's a contender.

Maradona isn't better than Messi because he played on rough pitches Messi isn't better just because he was more consistent and machine like.

That's why there's never a right answer. Because people mostly rely on their 'feeling' and they value as everything else across decades loses its weight.

amolbhatia50k · Feb 4, 2021

DCP said:
Do people actually put him below Messi?

Comfortably.

matt10000 · Feb 4, 2021

bosnian_red said:
I thought it was commonly accepted that Maradona/Pele and Messi/Ronaldo are ahead of everyone else basically?

I would go along with this although different era and so can only compare relative to the speed and fitness of their peers. However, probably balances out anyway because if Pele had been born 30 years later then he would have used more modern fitness and diet techniques anyway........

SportingCP96 · Feb 4, 2021

amolbhatia50k said:
Recency bias. Messi and Ronaldo have dominated that much partly as they've had the benefit of always being in super teams. I don't buy the argument that these the two are the best ever and nobody comes close. It's just people wanting to believe their era to be the best. Every case has to be seen on its metrics.

And every generation has its own context and issues to consider, Maradona's had tougher tackling, low scoring matches, bad pitches, better defenders, not much sports science/professionalism, and a greater emphasis on international football. In his context he's a all time great contender. In the context of football of Pele's he's a contender.

Maradona isn't better than Messi because he played on rough pitches Messi isn't better just because he was more consistent and machine like.

That's why there's never a right answer. Because people mostly rely on their 'feeling' and they value as everything else across decades loses its weight.

Even though I disagree with this as I truly believe they are the 2 Goats I 100% understand where your coming from and I respect that opinion.

SportingCP96 · Feb 4, 2021

amolbhatia50k said:
Comfortably.

See this right here is pure ignorance.

They legit shared the floor back and forth and are debated back and forth for a reason.

1 can not “comfortably” be below the other because it was not that way even when they both played.

That’s just nonesense.

lex talionis · Feb 4, 2021

In another thread here, I kicked Pele down to #2 behind Messi. But in truth it’s a tightly packed group of four at the top: Messi, Pele, Ronaldo and Maradona, the case for any of them at anyone’s personal very top being sound. But there’s no doubt that Ronaldo makes top 5 on anyone’s list.

Cait Sith · Feb 4, 2021

Just because he is around for 15 years or so which likely makes up the majority of your active football viewing time while football is at the peak in terms of commercialisation and exposure where players can make half a billion in 5 years and become your superheroes doesn't mean there weren't at least 5 better players than him, ever. There were tons of greats that would average 1 goal per game in modern football just like him but also had the ability to take the ball in the center circle and make clowns out of 5 defenders on their own, unlike Cristiano.

If you want to specify top 5 sixteen yard player then he might have a case. As a general player? No chance. But no need for long discussions here, everyone has already a strong opinion on the matter, can just as well discuss Android vs. iOS, PS vs. XBox or 2Pac vs. Eminem.

Lewnited · Feb 4, 2021

I honestly just think GOAT debates that span across 7 different decades of football just don't make any sense. The only quantifiable way to rank one player against another is their individual achievements and honours, but that leaves you nowhere close to seeing the full story.

If you stuck 2011 CR7 in to 1960's football he'd seem superhuman in comparison to everyone he played against and no one would come close to him. But equally if Pele was born in the modern era, he'd be the beneficiary of years of advancements in sports science and medicine... but that still gives you no idea of their level in relation to eachother, it's just incomparable.

There's more ground for comparison with modern day players like R9 vs CR7, though I dont know how you can argue for the former. Footballing ability aside (and it's still very close in this regard), I think we need to appreciate how high a level you need to be at mentally and physically to single handedly carry the pressures of Madrid for a decade and never drop off, likewise for Messi at Barcelona. No other modern day player comes close to these two.

Gehrman · Feb 4, 2021

If Messi hadnt played in the same era Ronaldo would probably be on 8-9Ballon D'ors. And vice versa. Obviously he has to be up there.

SirMarcusRashford · Feb 4, 2021

In my opinion C.Ronaldo/Messi/Pele & Maradona are the 4 greatest players to have played the game, who you prefer is personal preference.

What annoys me is people who prefer Messi, some totally dismiss C.Ronaldo's talents and don’t even include him in their top 10, even 'IF' Messi the GOAT, C.Ronaldo has won 5 Ballon d'Ors in the era of Messi, that automatically shows how great he is does it not?

C.Ronaldo for me as showed his all-round capabilities as a footballer throughout his career (and still showing it), he's won the Ballon d'Or as 2 different players, as a flare player (United and his 1st at Madrid) and won several Ballon d'Or's as a pure predator and done this at different clubs and in different leagues (different styles of football) and dominating all these leagues, whilst Messi (great as been) as never left his comfort zone, that will always go down a dent in his career for me, more so than him not having international success.

Maradona is my alltime great, but C.Ronaldo is the greatest over 30 player there's ever been in history.

I've never understood calls for Brazilian Ronaldo to be included these debates, it seems he gets put in just on a 'what if' merit (injuries). For me he's in the same tier as Ronaldinho/Zidane/Cruyff/Best/Platini/Beckenbauer, great but a tier below the 4 i said above, Cruyff is the closest to those 4 not L.Ronaldo.

amolbhatia50k · Feb 4, 2021

SportingCP96 said:
See this right here is pure ignorance.

They legit shared the floor back and forth and are debated back and forth for a reason.

1 can not “comfortably” be below the other because it was not that way even when they both played.

That’s just nonesense.

Back and forth in terms of honors. But Messi easily the best player I've seen. Ronaldo is also phenomenal but not quite at that level. It's fine to disagree. Ronaldo is among the greats.

Lay · Feb 4, 2021

DCP said:
Do people actually put him below Messi?
Greatest player of all time and no comparison. Messi in a close(ish) second.

Posts like these always seem absurd. Whether it’s for Messi or Cristiano. Of course opinions will differ.. they’ve both been neck and neck for over a decade, taking turns sharing ballon d’ors, scoring and assisting crazy amounts whilst playing for rival teams.

I used to get heavily invested in these debates about 5-6 years ago but there’s more enjoyment to just enjoy them for the limited time left of their careers.

I put Messi over Cristiano, but if someone believes Cristiano is better then that’s fair as I can see the argument both sides.

dinostar77 · Feb 4, 2021

How many people on this thread have actually watch Pele and Maradona play over 90mins on multiple occasions? Or is the judgement based on YouTube clips and stories about their footballing achievements/skills/ability.

Pele retired before i was born. My memories of Maradona are as a young child when i enjoyed the game but didnt appreciate what i was watching. Therefore i am unqualified to make a judgement on them and have to go by what history tells us.

We do also have to take into account what other players who played against these guys say. So when they say Pele or Maradona or L.Ronaldo is the best they ever played against or with then that means something for the era they played in. Which others have pointed out.

Anyway its harmless fun.

RedRonaldo · Feb 4, 2021

Lewnited said:
I honestly just think GOAT debates that span across 7 different decades of football just don't make any sense. The only quantifiable way to rank one player against another is their individual achievements and honours, but that leaves you nowhere close to seeing the full story.

If you stuck 2011 CR7 in to 1960's football he'd seem superhuman in comparison to everyone he played against and no one would come close to him. But equally if Pele was born in the modern era, he'd be the beneficiary of years of advancements in sports science and medicine... but that still gives you no idea of their level in relation to eachother, it's just incomparable.

There's more ground for comparison with modern day players like R9 vs CR7, though I dont know how you can argue for the former. Footballing ability aside (and it's still very close in this regard), I think we need to appreciate how high a level you need to be at mentally and physically to single handedly carry the pressures of Madrid for a decade and never drop off, likewise for Messi at Barcelona. No other modern day player comes close to these two.

This is a fair point though. If we look at GOAT across different eras in a comparable way:

50s - Di Stefano (dominate for around 5 years)
60s - Pele (dominate for around 7-8 years)
70s - Cruyff, Beckenbauer (dominate for around 5 years)
80s - Maradona (dominate for around 5-6 years)
90s - L.Ronaldo (dominate for around 2-4 years)
00s-10s - Messi, Ronaldo (dominate for around 12-13 years+)

Least we could do is to compare their length of domination. Its clear only Messi and Ronaldo has managed to dominate for so long, far ahead of other GOAT.

So in terms of domination, the very top tier should be Messi and Ronaldo, follow by Pele, and then the rest etc.

Messi=Ronaldo>Pele>Maradona>Di Stefano=Cruyff=Beckenbauer>L.Ronaldo

Then if we look at their achievements:

50s - Di Stefano (won 27 trophies overall, 5 of them being major*)
60s - Pele (won 30 trophies overall, 3 (or 2.5)# of them being major)
70s - Cruyff (won 23 trophies overall, 3 of them being major)
70s - Beckenbauer (won 20 trophies overall, 5 of them being major)
80s - Maradona (won 11 trophies overall, 1 of them being major)
90s - L.Ronaldo (won 17 trophies overall, 3 of them being major)
00s-10s - Messi (won 33 trophies overall, 4 (or 3.5)# of them being major)
00s-10s - Ronaldo (won 31 trophies overall, 6 of them being major)

footnotes:
*major trophies includes only WC, Euro, Copa, CL
# either injured or out for majority of knockout stages or tournament, and won it playing as bit part role only, could only count as half (0.5) to make it fair

Its clear Ronaldo stands out among all GOAT in terms of achievements, closely followed by Messi, equally match by Di Stefano and Pele.

Ronaldo>Messi=Di Stefano=Pele>Beckenbauer>Cruyff>L.Ronaldo>Maradona

So from the above, here's the GOAT ranking in comparable perspective of individual dominations and overall achievements:

1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Pele
4. Di Stefano
5. Beckenabuer
6. Cruyff
7. Maradona
8. L.Ronaldo

I tried not to compare stats here, as it will always favours forwards. Besides, scoring goals in 50s-60s isn't same as scoring goals in 80s or 2000s. Hard to compare stats across different eras indeed.

In conclusion, no one will take this list seriously though, its just purely for fun in an objective manner. If we go subjective, adding in favour of skills, peak and legacy etc I am sure the list would be totally different.

Daysleeper · Feb 4, 2021

SportingCP96 said:
He is top 3 all time without much debate at this point.

Its Maradona, Ronaldo, Messi (no order cause I don't feel like debating) and then there is everyone else.

THIS

lex talionis · Feb 4, 2021

The slagging of Pele here is insanity. If he’s not in your top 3, in whatever order you like, oh my.

Even if you didn’t watch Pele live (I did) it’s not hard to find full length matches and gobs of highlights. European defenders couldn’t stop him. Trophies galore, including 2 World Cups that he was instrumental in winning. That 13 year span 58-70 was madness. Messi and Ronaldo have had long spans too and are still going strong (Pele began his noticeable decline at 30) so anyone who wants to Messi-Ronaldo or Ronaldo-Messi has a case to make, but you can’t write off Pele as lower than third, even fully acknowledging Maradona.

Pocho · Feb 4, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
This is a fair point though. If we look at GOAT across different eras in a comparable way:

50s - Di Stefano (dominate for around 5 years)
60s - Pele (dominate for around 7-8 years)
70s - Cruyff, Beckenbauer (dominate for around 5 years)
80s - Maradona (dominate for around 5-6 years)
90s - L.Ronaldo (dominate for around 2-4 years)
00s-10s - Messi, Ronaldo (dominate for around 12-13 years+)

Least we could do is to compare their length of domination. Its clear only Messi and Ronaldo has managed to dominate for so long, far ahead of other GOAT.

So in terms of domination, the very top tier should be Messi and Ronaldo, follow by Pele, and then the rest etc.

Messi=Ronaldo>Pele>Maradona>Di Stefano=Cruyff=Beckenbauer>L.Ronaldo

Then if we look at their achievements:

50s - Di Stefano (won 27 trophies overall, 5 of them being major*)
60s - Pele (won 30 trophies overall, 3 (or 2.5)# of them being major)
70s - Cruyff (won 23 trophies overall, 3 of them being major)
70s - Beckenbauer (won 20 trophies overall, 5 of them being major)
80s - Maradona (won 11 trophies overall, 1 of them being major)
90s - L.Ronaldo (won 17 trophies overall, 3 of them being major)
00s-10s - Messi (won 33 trophies overall, 4 (or 3.5)# of them being major)
00s-10s - Ronaldo (won 31 trophies overall, 6 of them being major)

footnotes:
*major trophies includes only WC, Euro, Copa, CL
# either injured or out for majority of knockout stages or tournament, and won it playing as bit part role only, could only count as half (0.5) to make it fair

Its clear Ronaldo stands out among all GOAT in terms of achievements, closely followed by Messi, equally match by Di Stefano and Pele.

Ronaldo>Messi=Di Stefano=Pele>Beckenbauer>Cruyff>L.Ronaldo>Maradona

So from the above, here's the GOAT ranking in comparable perspective of individual dominations and overall achievements:

1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Pele
4. Di Stefano
5. Beckenabuer
6. Cruyff
7. Maradona
8. L.Ronaldo

I tried not to compare stats here, as it will always favours forwards. Besides, scoring goals in 50s-60s isn't same as scoring goals in 80s or 2000s. Hard to compare stats across different eras indeed.

In conclusion, no one will take this list seriously though, its just purely for fun in an objective manner. If we go subjective, adding in favour of skills, peak and legacy etc I am sure the list would be totally different.

not sure if serious

Cristiano Ronaldo should go down as top 5-6 players of all time

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