top 5? why are you such a hater?
Cristiano Ronaldo should go down as top 5-6 players of all time
- Thread starter Interval
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Shouldn't he be in the top 2 with Messi?
I didn't see all these legends live, but football has evolved. Players nowadays receive much better coaching and so on. These two dudes have been machines for such a long time.
I didn't see all these legends live, but football has evolved. Players nowadays receive much better coaching and so on. These two dudes have been machines for such a long time.
1-Messi
2-Pele
3-Cr7
After this it gets very tricky IMO
2-Pele
3-Cr7
After this it gets very tricky IMO
Best player of all time. Still banging it in, playing at a high level while Messi is on a decline. Best ever, hands down.
Pele
This guy gets overrated so much. Scoring 1000 goals in an inferior league.
The world cup performances are overrated. Football is much more difficult today. The level of athleticism is on another level now.
Basically this, those two are the two best ever to play the game. You can see how Madrid haven’t even gotten close to replacing Ronaldo, and Barca will be the same.
Wait for him to retire...R9 didn't get as overrated as he became until after retirement, same with Zidane. Certain fans don't know that players have never been near the consistency of these two. Maradona was not great and effective every week, that's the expectation we have of both Messi and Ronaldo.
I’ve hardly seen anyone who put Cruyff or Kaiser or Di Stéfano ahead of Pelé and Maradona. Their appearances in this conversation are understandable when you see that the GOAT debate now is not limited to A or B now, but includes at least 3 players (and when you put Messi up there, you have to put Ronaldo somewhere close). So you expand the binary choice to tiers & more complex methods, and inevitably you have to mention those who came close to the top, but don’t quite compete for the one and only GOAT status — like Cruyff or Beckenbauer or, in many people’s eyes, either one of or both Messi and Cristiano.
Pele when talking about the 3 greatest of all time is massively overrated. He is not even the best Brazilian player of all time let alone a top 3 in history.
If Pele is a top 3 in anyones list it is purely out of word of mouth as opposed to anything else. He was the first big world star in football but he is so overrated in the debate of this post.
Garrincha is arguably the better of the two and Fat Ronaldo is beyond him as well.
Garrincha is arguably the better of the two and Fat Ronaldo is beyond him as well.
Surely this goes without saying? I would have thought the majority of people have him in the top 6 at least (he's at number 4 in my own completely subjective list).
What???!?!
This is as redundant as a thread saying we should consider salad healthy. Literally nobody is going to disagree. What a safe opinion.
Is this even legitimately debated?
I have posted about this in detail before.
The level of play in the league was of your average Sunday league game results regular ended 11-0 9-0 etc.
2 World Cup wins(one of his 3 he was injured out early on so that has a *) and in both he was not the best player on the team.
People who have seen him play say garrincha was the best of the two and as far as pure talent and ability especially higher level of competition R9 is easily better.
Lots of people in Brazil actually feel that way.
He was the first known world star but the level of competition he played was literally garbage. He does not light a candle to Maradona, Messi, or Ronaldo.
Which barmpots say he’s just a goal merchant?
Played the first half of his career on the wing, scores all types of goals, gets a lot of assists.
It’s an insult saying that he’s probably too 5-6.
Messi and Ronaldo* are the top 2.
*Cristiano of course; the glamourising of the career of Luis Ronaldo needs to stop. Must be the Cafs most overrated player.
If there is one footballer who is hilariously overrated on this forum, it's Ronaldo i.e. Luis Ronaldo.
How's this thread not locked? The whole Ronaldo thread is full of this debate
He's the GOAT for me. I have not seen Pele, Maradonna, Best etc play. (proper week in week out) so got me Ronaldo is the goat. If someone choses Messi, I won't disagree with them but Messi does not reach what I consider to be GOAT level.
For me there is a pool of all time players. I pick the final one with this (persona) litmus test: world cup final and I can play two halves with two different teams. One will be weaker on paper the other stronger on paper. Both teams will have 10 men. The 11th will be a selection from the all time list. I would always pick Ronaldo.
He's the GOAT for me. I have not seen Pele, Maradonna, Best etc play. (proper week in week out) so got me Ronaldo is the goat. If someone choses Messi, I won't disagree with them but Messi does not reach what I consider to be GOAT level.
For me there is a pool of all time players. I pick the final one with this (persona) litmus test: world cup final and I can play two halves with two different teams. One will be weaker on paper the other stronger on paper. Both teams will have 10 men. The 11th will be a selection from the all time list. I would always pick Ronaldo.
He's alright.
I think it's meaningless trying to split hairs to compare someone like Pele and Ronaldo - given the completely different periods, leagues etc they played in. Whatever you want to call that top tier, I'd suggest Pele, Messi, Maradonna, and Ronaldo are all in it. The players who are maybe up for debate are those like Cruyff, Best, Zidane, (original) Ronaldo, etc etc
Unquestionably! It's hard for some to realise we have two living GOATs currently playing. In 10-20 years from now their legends will be cemented, I guarantee it, both Top 3.
Only if you simplified everything as longetivity, but it doesn’t make much sense anyway to contribute everything like goals, stats, records, trophies, success, consistency in performances, impact on winning etc to longetivity. Longetivity helps abit if you have all these traits, but they are basically referring to totally different things. If I work long enough does that alone make me the best and most successful too? Strange logic.
If purely on longevity vs peak, maybe you should have Kazu Miura vs fat Ronaldo instead. (Kazu Miura has been playing professional football for over 35 years, he is in his 50s and still playing! He is the very definition of longetivity in football).
Anyway here’s my GOAT tier ranking:
1st tier: Pele, Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona
2nd tier: Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer
3rd tier: Platini, Best, Puskas, Garrincha, Zico, L.Ronaldo, Muller, Zidane, Charlton, Eusebio etc
Here’s more elaboration:
1st tier criteria:
1. the best player and far ahead of everyone else in his time
2. most successful (either won most no. of trophies in his time, or won some of the biggest trophies single-handedly)
3. have the best stats/records in his time
4. won unrivaled amount. of individual honors in his time
5. very high peak, among most talented in his time
6. stay in peak/top form for many years, showing high level of consistency throughout
7. Has at least one tournament or seasons where you carry or lead your team and won everything in GOAT form on biggest stage, or revolutionized the game in way of how you played football, which ultimately define your legacy
Out of all players throughout history, only Pele, Messi, Ronaldo click all the box (from criteria 1 to 7), with Maradona being exception. For example on criteria 2, I would still give it to him as he is playing in lesser team and carry his teams to win biggest trophy (Argentina, Napoli), I’ve read he has over 350+ assists over his career and has 5 goals 5 assist in 7 games during 86 WC, as attacking midfielder he barely qualify for stats check on criteria 3. On criteria 4 though, he still won a lot of individual honors, but it’s nothing if compared to the other 3, so that’s the only exception, but 6 out of 7 clicked, I’d still give it to him.
2nd tier criteria:
- at least 4 or 5 of above criteria applies
3rd tier criteria:
- at least 2 or 3 of the above criteria applies
For fat Ronaldo case, I honestly think he only qualifies and get max points for criteria 1 and 5 only. For criteria 3 his overall stats/records isn’t good, but his pre-injury stats is up there with best, so he may take this as wildcard. Should he win WC 98, he may have stronger case to be considered on criteria 2 or even 7 too, and may move up to 2nd tier. Adding to that, if he wasn’t injured and maintain his peak form for at least another 4 or 5 years, and along the way scored another 200-300 goals and won a few more major trophies, which means he may take criteria 4 and 6 too, who knows he may even moved to tier 1.
But bottom line is, it didn’t happen, it’s just purely romanticism and belongs to “could have been scenario”. On current standing, with all facts presented and all things considered, he is only tier 3 for me.
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what a whole load of crap based on hipster of 60s opinion.
Garrincha was never considered better than Pele never.
It is like finding posts from 2011 red cafe in 2050, where you had few "wannabe different people " where they said Iniesta is better than Messi, and start to believe it as truth.
You mean ORIGINAL Ronaldo. Put some respect on it.
In terms of pure and natural ability, he was one of the best. Can score a goal with his eyes closed. Issues were the injuries. A lot of Brazilian players had really top peaks (Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Adriano etc) but not the longevity...
Fatnaldo is overrated as feck around here based on what he could have done.
Great players but nowhere in top 5 list.
Great players but nowhere in top 5 list.
Due to the 90s memories here. Same as Cristiano due to the United connection.
He is top 5. No doubt about it
I am just responding to the thread starter who refers him as “fat Ronaldo”. I normally would call him L.Ronaldo.
Sure, in terms of natural ability, he is one of the best. In terms of everything, he isn’t anywhere near to the greatest.
Going by skill, longevity and achievements CR7 would probably be the GOAT with Messi coming close second.
Going by pure skill as a footballer it gets more tricky because the pre-injury fat Ronaldo was on another level really. He was so good that his knees went 'feck it we're out, this is some non-human shit' and quit on him. Even the post-injury Ronaldo which was a total different player was still world-class.
I'm sure that if he had Cristiano's fitness level, discipline, hunger and mindset, he would be the GOAT.
Going by pure skill as a footballer it gets more tricky because the pre-injury fat Ronaldo was on another level really. He was so good that his knees went 'feck it we're out, this is some non-human shit' and quit on him. Even the post-injury Ronaldo which was a total different player was still world-class.
I'm sure that if he had Cristiano's fitness level, discipline, hunger and mindset, he would be the GOAT.
Fat Ronaldo has a great ring to it
I didn't know this was a dicussion. A ton of posters here call him the Goat or at least list him in their top5-6 all the time.
I dont mean to be rude but I honestly cant believe some of your guys age who have seen and rate Pele.
nah its probably top 5-6 though
Tbf to sportingcp96, the book about garrincha's career has quotes from people who played with and against both. Also journalists/managers at the time and garrincha is seen as the more talented of the two. Pele obviously achieved more, garrincha never truly forfilled his potential. But if you ask brasilians of a certain age group then garrincha is the better player.
I cannot fathom how this is a even close to a debate. Messi and Ronaldo is in my mind top 2, and easily top 2. Ronaldo beats Maradona in every category bar a World Cup win. Ronaldo has 102 international goals, and 450 goals in 438 games (yes, not the other way around) for Real Madrid. And I could go on and on and on with absolutely ridicilous stats.
Ronaldo is the GOAT.
Im convinced of that. What he’s won, his goal scoring numbers and consistency is unparalleled.
The requirement of a World Cup win in these debates is a nonsense in my opinion.
Would Pele have won all those world cups if he was born in Portugal? Would he feck.
Consistency and trophies in club football is by far more important in this debate and Ronaldo wins that hands down after doing it in multiple leagues.
A younger Messi is on the decline whilst Ronnie is still banging them in.
I reckon he could play until he’s 40. He’s broken almost every record there is.
Im convinced of that. What he’s won, his goal scoring numbers and consistency is unparalleled.
The requirement of a World Cup win in these debates is a nonsense in my opinion.
Would Pele have won all those world cups if he was born in Portugal? Would he feck.
Consistency and trophies in club football is by far more important in this debate and Ronaldo wins that hands down after doing it in multiple leagues.
A younger Messi is on the decline whilst Ronnie is still banging them in.
I reckon he could play until he’s 40. He’s broken almost every record there is.
How do you know he was overrated?
If Bobby Moore, Charlton and co say he was head and shoulders above them then he was a fantastic player.
Because you are looking at the entirety of football through the lens of the modern era. Football was very different in Maradonna's day. Heavier ball, pass back rule, tackling from behind. The CL was only for winners of their doemestic league and a straight knockout competition. The science into nutrition and looking after your body wasn't as widely adopted as it is now. They didnt have video forensics etc. As respected football journalists have said, its almost impossible to compate eras of football.
Tbf, this is a Utd forum, and i am a utd fan and a fan of CR7. However we are bias when looking at CR7 career. Only portugese, Utd and Madrid fans would say he was a better player than Messi. CR7 is a terminator, just relentless, but hes no artist. Messi, Maradonna, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Garricha were artists.
I've said it before there are a pantheon of truly great players across the entire history of football. CR7 and Messi rightly deserve to be in that group. For me personally there is no GOAT.
I really think you should learn more about Pele if you think he’s overrated. In my view, he absolutely has the best claim to the title of ‘greatest footballer of all time’.Pele
This guy gets overrated so much. Scoring 1000 goals in an inferior league.
The world cup performances are overrated. Football is much more difficult today. The level of athleticism is on another level now.
First of all Brazilian club football was at its apex when Pele played. The national team won 3 out of four World cups with players drawn entirely from their domestic game. Also, South American teams won 6 out of the 10 initial ‘club World Cup’ games in the 60s, demonstrating the strength of the South American game as a whole.
The World Cup performances are not overrated at all, and I wonder if you can provide some logical reasoning as to why you believe they are?
Re athleticism, you could argue that players are more athletic now. But they use the best equipment (boots, balls etc), pitches like carpets, the best scientific conditioning and defenders are not even allowed to breathe on attacking players. You can’t be savagely kicked out of a game like Pele was in 66. It’s all swings and roundabouts, there’s nothing logical to suggest that it is harder now than it was back then. Back then, top club players operated with locally sourced talent, not teams from all around the world assembled at humungous cost by unethical superclubs. It’s not a surprise that Ronaldo and Messi’s goal per game ratios in the World Cup and at international level are significantly less than at club level. That’s what happens when you don’t have a superclub helping you out.
Sure, I get your point that he is not an artist to the same extent as those guys. But the thread title does not say "top 5 artists of all time". For me its very weird to only discuss artistry and not winning mentality when it comes to "best footballer of all time".