And that's before you consider if Bezos owned business like WaPo giving favorable coverage/omitting bad things counts as lobbying too
Facebook, Amazon etc....
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Can you point to any editorial interference in the Post's coverage after he bought it ?
Yes but not right now I am supposed to be working but I'm watching China beating Korea 3-0 for the first time in 40 years
This I think misses the point. Ideas are cheap, execution is everything and Amazon has been maybe the best ever at this.
If business leaders can be geniuses (and I don't see why not if, say, military leaders can be) then Bezos clearly is one.
I assume all those people accusing Bezos/Amazon of being terrible, don't use it of course.
they turn over just shy of 100 billion a quarter right...
so what you are saying is that amazon paid:
($5,000,000/$ 100,000,000,000)*100 = 0.005% of their turnover on lobbying... i mean that sounds kinda low if they were super bothered about having an impact on public policy
You seem to be saying that because most people are not well informed and don't participate in the democratic process as they should, it's somehow ok if they are taken advantage of by a savvy and ruthless businessman because he's just using the system he helps maintain with his billions of dollars in lobbying. People who struggle to make ends meet are to blame for not doing more and it's useless to criticize the ones doing the exploitation.
You're still left with the problem of the millions who are exploited in developing countries who have no say in the democratic process and can't participate in public discussion.
If you look at this and only see a political problem than that's your view. I refuse to absolve those who take advantage of a corrupt system, even if they're not doing anything illegal.
The point is they aren't being taken advantage of because imbalances such as what we see with Bezos and others are directly due to voter non-participation in policies that would fix the problem. In a deregulated capitalist system (as the US is), Bezos and similar figures have little to no moral obligation to do anything other than maximize their own earnings. If you want to change that system, you have to actually vote for people willing to change policy on your behalf. And yet roughly half of the country continue to not participate in national elections, which ends up yielding more of the same. At the end of the day, complaining about this stuff means little if you're not willing to do something about it. And that doing something has to involve more than just complaining about billionaires in social media echo chambers.
Last edited:
I’m reasonably confident that you know how irrelevant that is.
I actually almost included a “waits for someone to point out their turnover” line at the end of my initial post. It’s a meaningless distraction.
Aren't they and Facebook two of the biggest corporate lobbying companies?
I'm not sure looking at what percentage of their turnover is spent on lobbying tells us much.
Yeah 5 mil in lobbying in Washington? Most committees would tell you to feck off if you wanted anything in particular.
That said Amazon is still in the top 10.
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders
That said Amazon is still in the top 10.
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders
Last edited:
For reference that is around double what Google spent on lobbying in the same period, with their efforts reportedly focused on areas including privacy, consumer protection and online advertising.
I’m sure them “only” spending £2.7m in 3 months shows how little they really care about those issues.
I’m sure them “only” spending £2.7m in 3 months shows how little they really care about those issues.
In one quarter… they spent $19m in 2020, which made them (along with Facebook) the biggest corporate lobbying spenders in the country.
They spent around double what Exxon and Philip Morris did. Two companies fairly well known for their lobbying efforts.
Mmm how many votes you need to buy?
Not many when you have a bipartisan system.
is it though... i mean if you only want to go on the number I think they gave over $200m to charities last year so you know like 10 times what they have spent on lobbying .... though probably no doubt at that point you will go yeah but thats only like 0.05% of their turnover
Oh c'mon of course they are. Just because the law allows Bezos to be a cnut, it doesn't mean he has to be one. He chooses to be one and so it's fair to criticize him for it.
You seem to be suggesting voting is the only moment of civic participation, and it's not. Pointing these things out and discussing them (in person, social media, whatever) is also part of it. "Shut up and vote" is not an acceptable criticism, especially when his exploitation affects people in different countries. You didn't address the issue of amazon exploiting non-americans in developing countries who have no voice in the whole thing, you can't say to a random bloke in africa or asia "oh yeah, stop complaining about it and vote in someone who defends your interests".
And if you recall, in my initial post I mentioned the media. How can you have an informed electorate if the media just props Bezos as an amazing icon and fail to address these other things. Especially when he flat out says it, amazon workers paid for this, isn't a logical question if these same workers would prefer better pay and conditions? Who asked these things yesterday? No one.
So you have workers who barely have time (and sometimes education) because making ends meet is their priority, put against billionaires who spend tons in lobbying and an apathetic media and you think this is a fair fight? This is a system working normally? I don't think it's a fair analysis.
Equally as irrelevant.
There is also the political campaigns donations.
10million were donated from Amazon, mostly to Biden, for the 2020 elections.
But yeah, probably they are not getting nothing in return.
But they spent more on stationery so what’s even the point. Or something.
Regarding their spending, isn’t it quite difficult to spend huge amounts on lobbying? You can only donate a limited amount to each politician, like $7000 of something like that?
so the only thing relevant is they spend about a quarter of what the us chamber of commerce spends a year?
also less than realtors spend... less than pharma spends... and about the same as apple, facebook, ups and northrop?
I mean what exactly are they doing wrong there
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/top-spenders?cycle=2020
having an issue with lobbying seems a pretty solid stance to hold .... having a problem with amazon doing the same as everybody else just seems like a weird manufactured issue
Last edited:
"He's a cnut" is a very simplistic view to take to what is fundamentally a systemic problem and doesn't do anything to provide a remedy.
I would disagree. Talking about stuff is not in the same universe as actually doing something about it (aka voting).
Why aren't the governments of these countries doing something about this ?
This is part of being a citizen and voting. The excuse that people shouldn't vote because billionaires spend money on lobbying or because they're too busy or poor isn't a particularly valid excuse for non-participation, especially given that we already know that plenty of people in this category already vote in the present. We need more of them to show up in future elections.
Last edited:
What does that have to do with anything? If you "only" need to spend $5M on lobbying to get the influence you want, why would you spend more just because you can afford to?
They and Facebook are the two biggest individual companies in terms of lobbying spend. You’re comparing single entities to entire industries.
I’m not necessarily saying they’re “doing something wrong”, I’m simply saying they have a very significant impact on policy whether you or Raoul want to acknowledge it or do everything you can for some reason to point over there.
Give it another year or two and I'll be fully on board.
company that generates approx 0.5% of us gdp spends about 0.5% of the total amount spent on lobbying ... there re companies where lobbying is far more critical to their business ... and lobbying in general is a far bigger issue than amazon spending such a relatively small amount
Id say the NRA for exmple is a far bigger issue and one that has caused far more harm through their lobbying
Re: Amazon workers being exploited, since when was warehouse work ever well paid? Seem to recall getting fcuk all an hour when I did it for a while in the early 90s.im pretty sure their engineering teams aren't on $17/hour for that matter.
He's rich not because he's a monarch or because he in nherited it, he's rich because he owns 10% of the $2 trillion company he invented and built. He doesn't pay tax until he sells shares and sees the capital gain because how else would he? Whether he pays enough on that, is open to question. Whether Amazon also pays enough is also open to question although with them, they really have tended to reinvest their profits rather than like apple, pile up cash in a tax haven. But I don't see an easy answer to stopping Bezos being super rich when he part owns the machine he made... And what is wrong with that?
I wish there was a snappy word for this tactic of pointing to other things and asking what about those as if it somehow mitigates the point at hand. Some kind of ism.
Oh well.
sorrry.... couldn't hear you over the sound of my amazon stock going through the roof
Three cheers for employee exploitation!
wouldnt you rather save your cheers for when they have robot warehouses and driverless deliveries... or you gonna whinge about that as well?
It depends on what gets done about it.
If there is a real effort to help the enormous number of people who suffer from it by way of a UBI system then no.
So probably yes.
Sorry those pesky blue collar workers get in the way of your capital gains.
The only thing that proves is that American politicians and journalists are willing to sell themselves quite cheaply.
Such a bizarre choice of words. Hah, look at that guy whinging about worker exploitation.
You really are the ultimate enlightened centrist, aren't you?
While I really appreciate you responding to a 4 month old post of mine, I don't think I'll enter a discussion with someone who has momentarily taken daddy Elon's balls off his chin, just to swing by and back up the honourable Jeff Bezos.
I missed the first quarter part and thought it was to date. After lookign it up they do spend a lot for an enterprise even if the figure seems minuscule for Washington's standards. Probably worth every penny though.
The slaver mentality is alive and well in the support of this lot, with their exploiting, rapist, sensibilities.
I think the point, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Amazon make a big effort to promote themselves and their warehouses as decent places to work and as if they are above all others. Those shiny videos and tv shows sure show that well. When in reality, and I know this first hand as I've worked at many of their places (not for them directly of course, so I'm free to comment), they are soulless shit holes that don't give a damn about worker's health and safety.
Through promoting themselves as something different they have, rather cleverly I might add, turned attention away from the fact they really are worse than most companies because they have the power to be. It extends beyond the warehouse too, ask the contract delivery drivers how they are treated for example.
Oh for sure, they don’t do it for fun even if it is a small amount for them.
All you've done is save me from arguing with an idiot. Now run along.
Last edited: