Until he remembers whose pockets he's in.
Russia's at it again
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
And the fact he is a quitter and a coward
Funny it was an actual Churchill fantasy
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Learn something new every day
" The planners decided that without massive American help Britain would probably fail. "
You have to admire the optimism. Probably...
I’m not being funny. I don’t particularly care about Kadyrov, but you could literally vote a horse in there and there would still be homophobia and more of the same would happen in Chechnya. I’ll be dead and so will you, this forum will cease to exist and I can guarantee you that Caucasus will stay the same.
As for Russia, let it just do it’s own thing. Have to realise that is very young in terms of a government. 30 years is nothing.
That's a surprisingly good point.
But Russia isn't necessarily a new country though. It's been a unified nation for longer, no?
feck me I never felt so small.
I'm not sure I agree with this logic to be honest.
What, no? Pure anarchy after the fall of Soviet Union.
Again, I’d call @harms
I’m a russian as in that I was born in russia and that’s it. I’ve been to Russia a lot and country like no other but I wouldn’t have the authority to speak on it. I would much more comfortable talking about Northern Ireland where I have spent most of my life.
You don’t have to agree mate. Russia has been an age old question. I certainly don’t expect to find an answer on this forum.
I couldn't resist but it's a very interesting point.feck me I never felt so small.
I would, however, ask Pogue to change the thread title. I mean what are we at? Playing geopolitical games like any other country? Rightly or wrongly defending its interests? Again I’m not picking a side as to what Russia has done.
It’s fine lad. I know that you’re a phenomenal poster so I took it as a component actually.I couldn't resist but it's a very interesting point.
@JPRouve it is true though. Russia and Russians are still in their infancy. I don’t know the implications of that but I know for a fact that there some. I also know that Russians are some of the most talented people. Physically, intellectually - we will catch up.
Is there something different about the Russians than other ethnic groups? Every group of people has talented folks.
Are you sure because it seemed to me like he just called you a stupid fecking wanker.
One of the obvious consequence is the lack of maturity of political movements and insitutions, both are also tighly linked to influential people from the previous era. When you think about it, it is asking a lot to expect Russia to function like western nations and western nations are for a large part a well hidden cesspool of corruption.
No of course not mate. Though, I’ve had the stupid, drunk Russian stereotype a few times. I actually that some people in UK treat Eastern Europeans with contempt.
Well I think it’s also a bit much to ask Russia to get on like a ‘western nation’. I think Putin said that Russia would join NATO, all NATO have to do is just ask. Point being, we all know, Russians aren’t particularly like Europeans, we’re just, well, Russians.
About corruption etc I don’t know more than any outsider. My family were all in the military from my dads side and I’d call my father a corrupt wee bastard but it’s par for the course.
Asking Russia to join the NATO is like offering the coyote a bed in the chicken coop.
Well, while many countries had a incipient democracy in europe and america, russia was in a autocrat monarchy 100 years ago. No elections whatsoever. Followed by non elections with communism and they had the first elections in 1991 greatly manipulated by US followed by well...Putin
What kind of democratic culture do you think any generation can have if no one lived under a proper democracy and election system?
Well there’s no point in NATO if Russia are in it.
But Putin did go on record about it.
Putin asked to join NATO when he first became president.
The question of Russia's political maturity and the novelty of the nation itself is a difficult one. It's an argument that works for most of post-Soviet countries as most republics were significantly stripped from their national identity (in a similar fashion to what China does now to uyghus and other cultural or religious unions that challenge the priority of CPC in all areas of life), tied up with complex economical measures (USSR was consciously spreading all of the different stages of different productions all over the country with the final construction often happening centrally, in Russia, to complicate the process of a potential disintegration)... But Russia — RSFSR to be exact — was always at the centre of it, benefiting from all of it and it's not a coincidence that it is Russia who is seen by most (Russia included) as USSR's successor.
New Ukraine is a young country (I'm not denying it's history pre-USSR by the way or repeating Putin's "historical" claims that deny Ukraine's centuries long culture & legacy), for example, that had to rebuild their whole economy and political structure multiple times as well as building a new sense of national identity. New Georgia (the same * applies to it — I'm not going to check as I'm lazy but I'm pretty sure that Georgia's history goes further back in time than Russia's) is a young nation that had to build a lot of its institutions from scratch. It's not surprising that they've remained in Russia's area of influence for quite some time after the collapse of the Soviet Union before breaking out and forming whatever it is that they did only recently (I'm not a fan of Ukraine's politics at the moment, for example, but I'm somewhat optimistic as it's obviously a political state in the state of its adolescence).
Today's Russia is not a new nation in any sense of this word aside from the most literal one — yes, it was technically formed only 3 decades ago. In the 90's and even early 00's it looked like Russia was going to destroy the basic institutions that stood in the foundation of the Soviet Union in order to build something new (not necessarily something good, I have to add). But under Putin's reign, aside from the first few years where he actively tried to build friendly relationships with the West, Russia is going back — not even that slowly, but steadily, falling back to the status quo. Economically, the system is significantly different from the Soviet Union, obviously, but there are a lot of eerie similarities. Culturally, institutionally etc. he had built a natural and seamless successor to Soviet Union — and not even the best version of it. All the "democrats" that were at power in the 90's are either completely reformed, dead or exiled. Putin's apparatus is mostly built from the same people who were either party members or, more often, high-ranking KGB officials — and their natural successors (30 years had past, so a lot of those who were at power in the 70's/80's are either dead or long retired).
Thanks for this informative post, harms. Much appreciated.
So basically Russia has 0 experience on western democracy and western democratic institutions. And Russians don't have any sense of how a democratic government and society should be. With that I am not saying that democracy works in every society...it doesn't seem to work in europe/america lately
Yeah, pretty much.
Sorry for bumping this, but the tweet falls more in this thread than the Ukraine. An added bonus is reading some of the takes posters had not three years ago...
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
It must be ideological. Practically there's no benefit to them antagonising every other country in Europe.
That's a pretty accurate statement.
When you're at war you can basically justify any action.
I think democracy has worked perfectly well in Europe. The problem is Trump in America and his attempts to overturn election results.
Perfectly well...lets say that is where it had work best. And yes, i agree with you with trump (and i extend what is happening to europe). That is why i said "lately"
I wonder if the old Russian ladies who worked in the Findus fish factory in Hammerfest will go to war too now. Seems like major conflict is coming now, if it ever wasn't after the invasion of Ukraine.
Trump is only the latest indicator of a very flawed democracy, that is America.
When you have Citizen's United and parties spending over $1billion just for a presidential campaign... what do you think will happen, and is that really democracy?
Words like freedom, democracy are just badges or placards that the simple folks can elevate and pretend they have found a purpose in life --- when in fact the We, the people' concept was lost or highjacked decades ago.
Its just being used to manipulate the masses.
My issue is the lack of honesty in the political discourse in America. Its all about self-interest, whether it be an individual, corporation, or country -- riding on the pretence of 'doing good' or 'saving democracy' or 'women & children'. Those are just emotional causes that attach to one's sense of being or identity.
All this time, the powers to be are just manipulating the masses in order to justify their self-interest.
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Biden's presidency was largely pretty good until the Dems lost the House completely when the speaker got the boot. It's a complete mess now, but it doesn't mean that their democracy can't fix itself and reelect some non-loony bins. The Russian "democracy" on the other hand, not so much.