ForeverRed1
Full Member
We need the best of the best managing and coaching the team. Not friends fc.
we got the squad to do it.
we got the squad to do it.
You're mixing up bad decisions with owners intentions.Please, get off your high horse. Top and his late father are more football people than the Glazers will ever be. Of course it's first and foremost a business, and football ain't the national sport in Thailand, however they showed a real interest. They came to the games as much as they could, took the job at heart, invested not only in the club but also in the city itself, and never let the standards slump the way the Glazers did at Manchester. If you need facts, just look at where we were when they took over and where we are now. Look at our scouting system and how we buy our players and for what purpose. They didn't hesitate to sack Ranieri (our legend in his own right) in the middle of his second season, despite us being qualified for the knockouts in our first ever CL campaign, because there was the danger of a relegation dogfight. And that was the guy who got us our first title ever in his first season. They knew the backlash that would inevitably unfold, yet pulled the trigger anyway. There's a real ambition, a project from the owners to get our club as high as they can and keep us there. Whether we reach that goal remains to be seen, but the thing is that they know what they want and what we want. We all pull in the same direction.
27 years reign is a long, long reign and as much a blessing as a curse. SAF was a genius, one of the greatest football managers the world has ever seen and big are the shoes to fill. Turmoil and instability are to be expected after that, as much as nostalgia. I wrote here a couple of years ago that OGS did a good job as caretaker but should've never been appointed as permanent manager. He simply didn't have the credentials nor the ability to lead one of the biggest clubs on the planet to glory. That he got the job for his achievements as a MU player, not as a manager. That learning on the job isn't acceptable for a club of your status. Plenty of your own fans said the same thing at the time. Everything that's happening now, was foreseen ages ago. Credit to him, he cleared the toxic atmosphere from Jose's end of reign and some of your deadwood, made some good signings, although none of them was an unearthed gem. However and to this day, there's still no pattern, no plan, no print, no definite style of play. There's a distinct feeling of nepotism and favoritism when I see who's and the sheet, week in week out, regardless of the player's form. You've been relying on individual brilliance since he's been appointed. Until this season he could hide behind the rebuild, but now he can't anymore. He never adapted, nor took into account the demands of the modern game. After this summer, he had to be proactive in his style of play, fit all the big names that arrived and been found out.
You're going to sack him, that much is certain, at the end of this season at the latest. But unless there's a drastic change (at least in the mentality) in the upper echelons, you're going to live in the short-term with no real direction nor viable project. You're too big to really fall and have enough money to prevent any kind of dramatic regression, but you won't be the force to be reckoned with that Ferguson made you in his time. Some of you might bang about how Ole managed that cultural reset but imo, his teams, style of play and impact on the pitch are in no way comparable to what it meant to face a SAF team (and I'm old enough to remember the Cantona years). The fear factor is long gone. Times have changed, clubs have adapted and you should too.
Agree with all of this.Many great points here. As I see it, we have several flaws and made several mistakes to get to this point. One thing we could do, though, is expectations from fans. But we don't have that and you can see that in this forum and the discussions here. A month ago, it was still 50/50 if Ole should stay or go despite three years of shit football and money splashed all over. I saw a match in another country where the fans demanded an apology and demanded to talk to the players. After the game, several players came to the fans and they discussed. The fans demanded a change, that the richest team in the country should at least show some heart on the pitch. The club in question is in third place, only a point or two from the top. But they demand more. They demand that the players show their hearts out, show what it means to play for this club. It's called supporter influence and having expectations on the team. We don't. If they lost 5-0 at home to their rivals, the fans would be on the pitch, and the manager would be sacked on the spot. Here, we applaud Ole, we still discuss if he's the right man. Try to take it in. We lose 5-0 at home to our rivals, none of the players seem to give a shit, neither does the manager who still isn't capable or even trying to put out a synchronized press. Look what happened with the Super League when we put pressure on the Glazers and the club. Now, we just keep applauding, and when we do, they think it's all fine.
Oh, you mean the fans protesting to get Ole fired? That'll never happen. Not only is United fan culture to support their managers, but imagine a bunch of fans calling on the club's despised owners to sack a club legend... it's just not how it would be done!I don't think you need to force the Glazers to walk away, but fans for other clubs certainly voice their issues with how the club is run far better than united fans. I think it's embarrassing that people were unironically cheering for Ole these past few home games. I don't think it's realistic to force them to sell but it certainly is realistic to force their hand when the club gets into some of the shittier situations (like now).
Pitches have been stormed for less than a 5-0 drubbing against your fiercest rival, let's put it that way. Yet our manager was clapped off. So yeah I agree, our fanbase is partly to blame I fear.Because the fanbase has allowed it to be.
Quite the opposite, since Fergie the entire club has been in a dreamland about getting the next man that will know the DNA of the club and manage us for two decades.Short sighted management is the answer from my point of view.
Hiring and firing isn't something we should ever look to as a strategy. Chelsea are the obvious Yang to our Ying, and while they do pick up trophies they haven't retained a trophy since the FA cup over a decade ago, and never came close to sustained dominance since Jose's first go at it. They are constantly reactive to situations, and while the executive team at the club seems stable everything below it rarely is.Quite the opposite, since Fergie the entire club has been in a dreamland about getting the next man that will know the DNA of the club and manage us for two decades.
Our only real true taste of success since SAF was the reported Woodward short sighted choice of Mourinho.
This club and everyone at it is desperate for a new SAF, because hiring and firing simply isn’t the United way, or some bollocks.
PSG lost the title to the mighty Lille just a few months ago and have been bang average at best this season at times.https://www.espn.com/soccer/manches...glazers-as-apathy-and-low-standards-take-hold
I feel like our lack of success is not only down to having a poor coach, but also because the club owners has set the bar so low for success here at United. The owner might be willing to splash a lot of cash, but if we are just going after the top four trophy, we might as well just use those funds to rebuild Old trafford and give it to charity because we dont need much to get in that position.
When you look at the standards at other top clubs, for example psg, where they are 7 points on top of the league and already beaten one of the best team in Europe, yet Pochettino is still under crazy amount of pressure. Similiarly, we wouldn’t expect managers from city, Bayern, liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona, and chelsea to survive putting their club into Europa league. I am pretty sure if Abramovic was our owners, after the liverpool game, Ole would have been sacked on the spot. The club owners needs to set a higher bar and ensure that we get back to the glory days of United under ferguson.
No, we should always hire for success, and success and entertainment should allow the manager to remain as long as he likes.Hiring and firing isn't something we should ever look to as a strategy.
Actually I think you are supporting my point, not opposing it. That dreamland as you call it is exactly that, the believe that fans are happy now to follow this wretched "United way", while not seeing the damage this does in the long term.Quite the opposite, since Fergie the entire club has been in a dreamland about getting the next man that will know the DNA of the club and manage us for two decades.
Our only real true taste of success since SAF was the reported Woodward short sighted choice of Mourinho.
This club and everyone at it is desperate for a new SAF, because hiring and firing simply isn’t the United way, or some bollocks.
In fairness Liverpool went 3 decades and still sold all that YAWN shite to newer audiences.I wonder how long we can keep continuing to market about past successes, 'The United Way' and all these cliches to newer audiences. We are creeping up to a decade of football without any major trophies, while all our rivals and 'fellow' big clubs have gone on to win big things.
Only a matter of time before the newer potential fans of football move towards other clubs. You can't base your whole strategy on 'We used to win things before'.
But their fanbase is much smaller then United's today, therefore United is much stronger financially.In fairness Liverpool went 3 decades and still sold all that YAWN shite to newer audiences.
I am not sure about the competition back then, but with all these oil clubs, it's more fierce than ever. And football is truly global now, so all the new fans have a variety of clubs to choose from.In fairness Liverpool went 3 decades and still sold all that YAWN shite to newer audiences.
Comes down to the individual I suppose, and how you perceive each manager. We obviously didn't feck around with Moyes. LVG I really can't remember the end too well because I was so excruciatingly bored by our football, so I guess that should conclude we waited too long. Jose I would have fired the morning after his Sevilla speech. Ole shouldn't have been a serious consideration until now IMO, but that's me.No, we should always hire for success, and success and entertainment should allow the manager to remain as long as he likes.
No success, and shit entertainment should call his position into question.
It's not difficult. No-one's saying we should be firing managers after a league win followed by an FA Cup win a la Chelsea, or after 2 straight league titles a la Madrid. What we should do however, is act quickly on extremely underperforming managers.
Honours in the last ten years;Hiring and firing isn't something we should ever look to as a strategy. Chelsea are the obvious Yang to our Ying, and while they do pick up trophies they haven't retained a trophy since the FA cup over a decade ago, and never came close to sustained dominance since Jose's first go at it. They are constantly reactive to situations, and while the executive team at the club seems stable everything below it rarely is.
'DNA of the club' is fan service, but trying to build something sustainable is something I hope United will always do, and if that means giving managers some slack then I'll back that over the Chelsea model always. Since Ferguson we've sacked someone 10 months into a 6 year contract, and another straight after winning a trophy, so I think it's become a myth that we stick with managers as a rule. For people who have criticised Ole from day one then this must all feel like an eternity, but it's only now that progress has stalled that it looks like a change is coming, and that seems okay to me.
2010 | Premier League, FA Cup |
2012 | Champions League, FA Cup |
2013 | Europa League |
2015 | Premier League, League Cup |
2017 | Premier League |
2018 | FA Cup |
2019 2021 | Europa League UEFA Champions League |
Exactly. Conte won’t accept complacency in the boardroom either, which is probably why he won’t get appointed.For year I’ve been saying that Ole’s greatest accomplishment was destroying the standards at the club. He’s definitely at fault and his cronies in the media have been pushing the narrative that he’s overseen an amazing rebuild which is obviously nonsense.
It’s as bad as it’s ever been post Ferguson. LVG and especially Mourinho were held to a much higher standard, there was expectations.
This is why Conte is needed. He will not tolerate the complacency and will demand the best.
I was thinking it was difficult to mention Poch considering the title of the thread but well done.https://www.espn.com/soccer/manches...glazers-as-apathy-and-low-standards-take-hold
I feel like our lack of success is not only down to having a poor coach, but also because the club owners has set the bar so low for success here at United. The owner might be willing to splash a lot of cash, but if we are just going after the top four trophy, we might as well just use those funds to rebuild Old trafford and give it to charity because we dont need much to get in that position.
When you look at the standards at other top clubs, for example psg, where they are 7 points on top of the league and already beaten one of the best team in Europe, yet Pochettino is still under crazy amount of pressure. Similiarly, we wouldn’t expect managers from city, Bayern, liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona, and chelsea to survive putting their club into Europa league. I am pretty sure if Abramovic was our owners, after the liverpool game, Ole would have been sacked on the spot. The club owners needs to set a higher bar and ensure that we get back to the glory days of United under ferguson.
Not trying to put Chelsea down here. More illustrate that, since Jose MK 1, you've not managed to create a situation where you have been considered the dominant PL side for any real length of time. 3 league titles in the last 15 seasons is decent but no more than that, and your most successful seasons have often been followed by a poor one.Honours in the last ten years;
2010 Premier League, FA Cup 2012 Champions League, FA Cup 2013 Europa League 2015 Premier League, League Cup 2017 Premier League 2018 FA Cup 2019
2021Europa League
UEFA Champions League
I wouldnt say our approach has done too badly, no way other than Pep in that period has really had a sustained spell of retaining big trophies, and even then for as many premier leagues as they have had in that time, there yet to get the champions league.
Klopp's Liverpool would be viewed as sustainable and which trophy have they retained in consecutive seasons under him? The reality is there is a lot of competition and it is a lot harder to continually churn out premier league trophies now.
This is the problem with the "United Way" and the arrogance of it, ultimately football is fairly simple its about buying good players, having a balanced squad and a manager that suits the players at his disposal. This notion that United have to wait for some Fergie Manager Regen, who is going to come in and lead you to a strikingly similar period of dominance as the 2000-2010 period is ridiculous. How about trying to compete for the big two trophies first and just getting in a manager you know is capable of winning those things?
As a fanbase our expectations of this team under Ole have gone from 'get back in the top 4' to 'comfortable top 4 finish' to now 'must challenge for the title' so it's fair to argue that he has raised the standards of the club, no?For year I’ve been saying that Ole’s greatest accomplishment was destroying the standards at the club
Add to that the contracts we've handed out to the likes of Mata and Co, and it shows how poor we are at forecasting the future performance of people at the club.Our owners have made so many mistakes. Gave Moyes the 6 year contract first.
Then sacked LVG the day after he won us a trophy which was disrespectful.
Then gave Mou a huge contract and sacked him only months later.
Now they give all our coaching staff big new contracts again when it’s clear as day they aren’t up for it. A week later all goes totally wrong.
It’s just comedy at this point. All while they allow our most valuable player to run his contract down to a free.
100% correct.Pitches have been stormed for less than a 5-0 drubbing against your fiercest rival, let's put it that way. Yet our manager was clapped off. So yeah I agree, our fanbase is partly to blame I fear.
Yeah I agree, some revisionism going on here. The standards are high, Ole is a winner himself, instilled in him by Ferguson. The loss on Sunday will have been devastating to him no doubt, but if he hasn’t got what it takes then he hasn’t got it. Doesn’t mean he’s not a winner.As a fanbase our expectations of this team under Ole have gone from 'get back in the top 4' to 'comfortable top 4 finish' to now 'must challenge for the title' so it's fair to argue that he has raised the standards of the club, no?
Calling someone a winner who is not winning anything is bollocks.Yeah I agree, some revisionism going on here. The standards are high, Ole is a winner himself, instilled in him by Ferguson. The loss on Sunday will have been devastating to him no doubt, but if he hasn’t got what it takes then he hasn’t got it. Doesn’t mean he’s not a winner.
You sure? Supporters who are attending were signing Ole at the wheel and is more and less backing Ole. Most of the former United players are backing Ole. “DNA” gets thrown around more often than winning trophies.The board and the owner don't share the same principle as the fans.