Why are the standards at one of the biggest club in football (Manchester United) so low?

[ForeverRed1]

We need the best of the best managing and coaching the team. Not friends fc.

we got the squad to do it.

 

[Castia]

The board know Ole is done, the problem is they wasn’t expecting it so haven’t got any contingency plan. The players we bought added to the ‘easy’ set of opening fixtures and I’m sure the vast majority expected us to be right up there and it hasn’t happened.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

"We're not doing too good in the league? That's news to me! Then why are we still generating so much cash? Carry on!"

-Probably someone from the board

 

[Marwood]

Please, get off your high horse. Top and his late father are more football people than the Glazers will ever be. Of course it's first and foremost a business, and football ain't the national sport in Thailand, however they showed a real interest. They came to the games as much as they could, took the job at heart, invested not only in the club but also in the city itself, and never let the standards slump the way the Glazers did at Manchester. If you need facts, just look at where we were when they took over and where we are now. Look at our scouting system and how we buy our players and for what purpose. They didn't hesitate to sack Ranieri (our legend in his own right) in the middle of his second season, despite us being qualified for the knockouts in our first ever CL campaign, because there was the danger of a relegation dogfight. And that was the guy who got us our first title ever in his first season. They knew the backlash that would inevitably unfold, yet pulled the trigger anyway. There's a real ambition, a project from the owners to get our club as high as they can and keep us there. Whether we reach that goal remains to be seen, but the thing is that they know what they want and what we want. We all pull in the same direction.

27 years reign is a long, long reign and as much a blessing as a curse. SAF was a genius, one of the greatest football managers the world has ever seen and big are the shoes to fill. Turmoil and instability are to be expected after that, as much as nostalgia. I wrote here a couple of years ago that OGS did a good job as caretaker but should've never been appointed as permanent manager. He simply didn't have the credentials nor the ability to lead one of the biggest clubs on the planet to glory. That he got the job for his achievements as a MU player, not as a manager. That learning on the job isn't acceptable for a club of your status. Plenty of your own fans said the same thing at the time. Everything that's happening now, was foreseen ages ago. Credit to him, he cleared the toxic atmosphere from Jose's end of reign and some of your deadwood, made some good signings, although none of them was an unearthed gem. However and to this day, there's still no pattern, no plan, no print, no definite style of play. There's a distinct feeling of nepotism and favoritism when I see who's and the sheet, week in week out, regardless of the player's form. You've been relying on individual brilliance since he's been appointed. Until this season he could hide behind the rebuild, but now he can't anymore. He never adapted, nor took into account the demands of the modern game. After this summer, he had to be proactive in his style of play, fit all the big names that arrived and been found out.

You're going to sack him, that much is certain, at the end of this season at the latest. But unless there's a drastic change (at least in the mentality) in the upper echelons, you're going to live in the short-term with no real direction nor viable project. You're too big to really fall and have enough money to prevent any kind of dramatic regression, but you won't be the force to be reckoned with that Ferguson made you in his time. Some of you might bang about how Ole managed that cultural reset but imo, his teams, style of play and impact on the pitch are in no way comparable to what it meant to face a SAF team (and I'm old enough to remember the Cantona years). The fear factor is long gone. Times have changed, clubs have adapted and you should too.

You're mixing up bad decisions with owners intentions.

For example:

You sacked Ranieri shortly after winning the league. Which apparently means your owners are football people and really care.

We sacked LvG right after we won the FA cup. But our owners are just happy to bumble along?

We made bad managerial appointments which again means we're happy with mediocrity apparently.

Your guys appointed Claude Puyel. Doesn't exactly scream ambition does it?

Your club finances are a mess. Ours are pretty good. Does that mean your owners don't care and ours do?

There's just too many contradictions in your post because you've gone all tribal defending your own.

If our owners won't change anything as long as the manager is ameniable then they'll stick with Ole right? That's where your logic takes you.

If Ole gets sacked soon lets pick this up again and see if you still believe our owners are happy with the current level of achievement.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Many great points here. As I see it, we have several flaws and made several mistakes to get to this point. One thing we could do, though, is expectations from fans. But we don't have that and you can see that in this forum and the discussions here. A month ago, it was still 50/50 if Ole should stay or go despite three years of shit football and money splashed all over. I saw a match in another country where the fans demanded an apology and demanded to talk to the players. After the game, several players came to the fans and they discussed. The fans demanded a change, that the richest team in the country should at least show some heart on the pitch. The club in question is in third place, only a point or two from the top. But they demand more. They demand that the players show their hearts out, show what it means to play for this club. It's called supporter influence and having expectations on the team. We don't. If they lost 5-0 at home to their rivals, the fans would be on the pitch, and the manager would be sacked on the spot. Here, we applaud Ole, we still discuss if he's the right man. Try to take it in. We lose 5-0 at home to our rivals, none of the players seem to give a shit, neither does the manager who still isn't capable or even trying to put out a synchronized press. Look what happened with the Super League when we put pressure on the Glazers and the club. Now, we just keep applauding, and when we do, they think it's all fine.

Agree with all of this.

Maybe its an English thing but the fans of Manchester United do not realise the power they have. You can see this by how much people on this forum look down on Real Madrid fans.

 

[UpWithRivers]

The majority wanted Ole in. The majority wanted Ole to stay. This includes fans, the board, ex players, Sir Alex, the tea lady. Everyone. Sir Alex is backing Ole now.
Ole has been backed in the market. Everyone agrees with that.
This whole United way and putting in ex players in all the positions was backed by everyone. Well maybe not all fans but the board and just by supporting Ole then this was his plan that we bought into.
Everyone didnt want the super league. Which I agree with but the downside is that we are never competing with City, PSG, etc and now the likes of fkn Newcastle. We have to accept that.

Now its all gone tits up its the Glaziers fault?
Im not pro Glaziers but its getting ridiculous blaming them for everything without any basis for that blame. What's the point? Lets just call a spade a spade. Everyone fkd up wanting Ole. That includes us the fans.
Whats the Glaziers supposed to do now. Just whip in a coach in the space of a day? Its not even up to them. Its the boards responsibility and half that board are still backing Ole. So what you want them to do? Chuck out Sir Alex and anyone who dissents and bring in their own yes men?

 

[Lebowski]

I don't think you need to force the Glazers to walk away, but fans for other clubs certainly voice their issues with how the club is run far better than united fans. I think it's embarrassing that people were unironically cheering for Ole these past few home games. I don't think it's realistic to force them to sell but it certainly is realistic to force their hand when the club gets into some of the shittier situations (like now).

Oh, you mean the fans protesting to get Ole fired? That'll never happen. Not only is United fan culture to support their managers, but imagine a bunch of fans calling on the club's despised owners to sack a club legend... it's just not how it would be done!

Besides, I wouldn't worry too much about the club keeping Ole - he'll be gone as soon as a replacement is found I would imagine.

Ultimately if you're annoyed at the club for not having a new manager yet, then I would suggest that frustration should be focused on the owners and the board, as they are the ones who clearly haven't prepared or planned for this eventuality at all.

 

[Godfather]

Because the fanbase has allowed it to be.

Pitches have been stormed for less than a 5-0 drubbing against your fiercest rival, let's put it that way. Yet our manager was clapped off. So yeah I agree, our fanbase is partly to blame I fear.

 

[stefan92]

Short sighted management is the answer from my point of view. Maybe it is because the owners are from the US, as that style seems to be dominant there. United is seeing itself as the biggest club in the world and currently make enough money to have at least something to back that claim.

But you build such a global brand by being successful. People like to associate themselves either with local clubs or with successful clubs, everything else is a rare exception. But fans are also loyal once their hearts decided for a club. So today United has that global reach because millions of people grew up watching SAF's United dominate the best marketed league in the world, as well as having occasional success in the CL. United's revenue stream today relies on that.

And there will be a dip in that in the future because at the moment there is no reason to become a fan of United. No success, no entertaining style of play, just mediocrity. The damage is done matchday by matchday, but it will take a long time until the revenue will show this damage.

When this point is reached United could be lost in mediocrity forever as they will not have the necessary budget to fight back to the top anymore. United must fight back while their revenue is still good enough, but this kind of long term planning is rarely seen with boards who seem to think just quarter by quarter...

 

[Ludens the Red]

There is something very frustrating in that for the large section of our fanbase and our ex players who’s obsession with the “United way” “nostalgia” and all the elements that come with it, seemingly ignore the biggest thing about our club under Fergies reign and that was the demands to be the best.
The one thing about our past you’d wish people held onto just isn't held onto. You read the books and watch the documentaries on Fergie and our old players and finishing 2nd was basically depression. You’d win the league and the next day it was we go and win the league again, you wouldn’t even celebrate that much.
How the feck is this the one element of our drunken nostalgia ways that is ignored?
Finishing 2nd 11 points behind the champions and losing a cup final is seen as a good season, progress etc etc. It’s just sad really.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Short sighted management is the answer from my point of view.

Quite the opposite, since Fergie the entire club has been in a dreamland about getting the next man that will know the DNA of the club and manage us for two decades.
Our only real true taste of success since SAF was the reported Woodward short sighted choice of Mourinho.

This club and everyone at it is desperate for a new SAF, because hiring and firing simply isn’t the United way, or some bollocks.

 

[Bilbo]

Quite the opposite, since Fergie the entire club has been in a dreamland about getting the next man that will know the DNA of the club and manage us for two decades.
Our only real true taste of success since SAF was the reported Woodward short sighted choice of Mourinho.

This club and everyone at it is desperate for a new SAF, because hiring and firing simply isn’t the United way, or some bollocks.

Hiring and firing isn't something we should ever look to as a strategy. Chelsea are the obvious Yang to our Ying, and while they do pick up trophies they haven't retained a trophy since the FA cup over a decade ago, and never came close to sustained dominance since Jose's first go at it. They are constantly reactive to situations, and while the executive team at the club seems stable everything below it rarely is.

'DNA of the club' is fan service, but trying to build something sustainable is something I hope United will always do, and if that means giving managers some slack then I'll back that over the Chelsea model always. Since Ferguson we've sacked someone 10 months into a 6 year contract, and another straight after winning a trophy, so I think it's become a myth that we stick with managers as a rule. For people who have criticised Ole from day one then this must all feel like an eternity, but it's only now that progress has stalled that it looks like a change is coming, and that seems okay to me.

 

[Son]

https://www.espn.com/soccer/manches...glazers-as-apathy-and-low-standards-take-hold

I feel like our lack of success is not only down to having a poor coach, but also because the club owners has set the bar so low for success here at United. The owner might be willing to splash a lot of cash, but if we are just going after the top four trophy, we might as well just use those funds to rebuild Old trafford and give it to charity because we dont need much to get in that position.

When you look at the standards at other top clubs, for example psg, where they are 7 points on top of the league and already beaten one of the best team in Europe, yet Pochettino is still under crazy amount of pressure. Similiarly, we wouldn’t expect managers from city, Bayern, liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona, and chelsea to survive putting their club into Europa league. I am pretty sure if Abramovic was our owners, after the liverpool game, Ole would have been sacked on the spot. The club owners needs to set a higher bar and ensure that we get back to the glory days of United under ferguson.

PSG lost the title to the mighty Lille just a few months ago and have been bang average at best this season at times.

That league is an embarrassment how easy it should be for them. I would argue we’d walk it too… Well maybe not with Ole in charge

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Hiring and firing isn't something we should ever look to as a strategy.

No, we should always hire for success, and success and entertainment should allow the manager to remain as long as he likes.

No success, and shit entertainment should call his position into question.

It's not difficult. No-one's saying we should be firing managers after a league win followed by an FA Cup win a la Chelsea, or after 2 straight league titles a la Madrid. What we should do however, is act quickly on extremely underperforming managers.

 

[Canagel]

The fanbase enables it.

 

[stefan92]

Quite the opposite, since Fergie the entire club has been in a dreamland about getting the next man that will know the DNA of the club and manage us for two decades.
Our only real true taste of success since SAF was the reported Woodward short sighted choice of Mourinho.

This club and everyone at it is desperate for a new SAF, because hiring and firing simply isn’t the United way, or some bollocks.

Actually I think you are supporting my point, not opposing it. That dreamland as you call it is exactly that, the believe that fans are happy now to follow this wretched "United way", while not seeing the damage this does in the long term.

 

[Bebestation]

At one point in our history we started talking about " United being the biggest Club in the world" when we wasn't. We were just the most famous club with arguably the ability to be the most rich.

We were not the best in football but we started talking about how we were the best club simply because we were one of the richest if not the richest.

That had its consequences. We have been bought by people who only give a crap about money. Our main priority is money. Even when we go and buy a player - the players price increases by a good 10-20 million because of our ability to still shout out like we are the biggest club in the world when we are not, we are just saying that because we are the richest club in the world or the most famous.

We are a club heavily involved in Money, it wasn't always like that but at some point in our life time - it did happen. That to me had its consequences.

 

[Roboc7]

The fact we appointed Ole and backed him to this extent shows just how low the standards of the club are. When we first sacked Jose we were supposed to be looking for the best manager and DOF. We ended up with the caretaker manager and Murtough who was already there. Rewarding Ole with a new contract despite all the warning signs and limitations was a good indicator of the lack of ambition and direction that’s set in.

Club have wasted three years fobbing off fans with talk of a rebuild and reboots when all they have done is wasted time. They are now allowing a circus to develop around the manager because they have no idea what to do. We’re a badly run club on and off the pitch from a football perspective and standards reflect that and the fact people in senior positions lack competence and accountability.

 

[LoneStar]

I wonder how long we can keep continuing to market about past successes, 'The United Way' and all these cliches to newer audiences. We are creeping up to a decade of football without any major trophies, while all our rivals and 'fellow' big clubs have gone on to win big things.

Only a matter of time before the newer potential fans of football move towards other clubs. You can't base your whole strategy on 'We used to win things before'.

 

[Son]

Our owners have made so many mistakes. Gave Moyes the 6 year contract first.

Then sacked LVG the day after he won us a trophy which was disrespectful.

Then gave Mou a huge contract and sacked him only months later.

Now they give all our coaching staff big new contracts again when it’s clear as day they aren’t up for it. A week later all goes totally wrong.

It’s just comedy at this point. All while they allow our most valuable player to run his contract down to a free.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I wonder how long we can keep continuing to market about past successes, 'The United Way' and all these cliches to newer audiences. We are creeping up to a decade of football without any major trophies, while all our rivals and 'fellow' big clubs have gone on to win big things.

Only a matter of time before the newer potential fans of football move towards other clubs. You can't base your whole strategy on 'We used to win things before'.

In fairness Liverpool went 3 decades and still sold all that YAWN shite to newer audiences.

 

[stefan92]

In fairness Liverpool went 3 decades and still sold all that YAWN shite to newer audiences.

But their fanbase is much smaller then United's today, therefore United is much stronger financially.

 

[LoneStar]

In fairness Liverpool went 3 decades and still sold all that YAWN shite to newer audiences.

I am not sure about the competition back then, but with all these oil clubs, it's more fierce than ever. And football is truly global now, so all the new fans have a variety of clubs to choose from.

I'm sure we will still have a massive fanbase, but surely they should also think about the huge potential audience they will be missing out to the other clubs. I'm sure they'd want to sell as many shirts as possible. Idk why or how they don't realise that with the money we have spent, we can win things if we did it wisely.

 

[Bilbo]

No, we should always hire for success, and success and entertainment should allow the manager to remain as long as he likes.

No success, and shit entertainment should call his position into question.

It's not difficult. No-one's saying we should be firing managers after a league win followed by an FA Cup win a la Chelsea, or after 2 straight league titles a la Madrid. What we should do however, is act quickly on extremely underperforming managers.

Comes down to the individual I suppose, and how you perceive each manager. We obviously didn't feck around with Moyes. LVG I really can't remember the end too well because I was so excruciatingly bored by our football, so I guess that should conclude we waited too long. Jose I would have fired the morning after his Sevilla speech. Ole shouldn't have been a serious consideration until now IMO, but that's me.

 

[thescore]

Hiring and firing isn't something we should ever look to as a strategy. Chelsea are the obvious Yang to our Ying, and while they do pick up trophies they haven't retained a trophy since the FA cup over a decade ago, and never came close to sustained dominance since Jose's first go at it. They are constantly reactive to situations, and while the executive team at the club seems stable everything below it rarely is.

'DNA of the club' is fan service, but trying to build something sustainable is something I hope United will always do, and if that means giving managers some slack then I'll back that over the Chelsea model always. Since Ferguson we've sacked someone 10 months into a 6 year contract, and another straight after winning a trophy, so I think it's become a myth that we stick with managers as a rule. For people who have criticised Ole from day one then this must all feel like an eternity, but it's only now that progress has stalled that it looks like a change is coming, and that seems okay to me.

Honours in the last ten years;

2010	Premier League, FA Cup
2012	Champions League, FA Cup
2013	Europa League
2015	Premier League, League Cup
2017	Premier League
2018	FA Cup
2019 2021	Europa League UEFA Champions League

I wouldnt say our approach has done too badly, no way other than Pep in that period has really had a sustained spell of retaining big trophies, and even then for as many premier leagues as they have had in that time, there yet to get the champions league.

Klopp's Liverpool would be viewed as sustainable and which trophy have they retained in consecutive seasons under him? The reality is there is a lot of competition and it is a lot harder to continually churn out premier league trophies now.

This is the problem with the "United Way" and the arrogance of it, ultimately football is fairly simple its about buying good players, having a balanced squad and a manager that suits the players at his disposal. This notion that United have to wait for some Fergie Manager Regen, who is going to come in and lead you to a strikingly similar period of dominance as the 2000-2010 period is ridiculous. How about trying to compete for the big two trophies first and just getting in a manager you know is capable of winning those things?

 

[Mockney]

Yeah, Chelsea are the most successful English side since the turn of the century. Weird comparison. The very notion of “sustained dominance” in the current PL is yet another rather outmoded Man Utd idea. Man City have only retained the title once.

 

[Real Name]

We're probably waiting for another manager who'll lead us to 3 in a row instead of finding a manager who'll simply lead us to winning things again. Who care about retaining, Chelsea are winning stuff. So are City and Liverpool.

 

[KingCavani]

For year I’ve been saying that Ole’s greatest accomplishment was destroying the standards at the club. He’s definitely at fault and his cronies in the media have been pushing the narrative that he’s overseen an amazing rebuild which is obviously nonsense.

It’s as bad as it’s ever been post Ferguson. LVG and especially Mourinho were held to a much higher standard, there was expectations.

This is why Conte is needed. He will not tolerate the complacency and will demand the best.

 

[Garethw]

For year I’ve been saying that Ole’s greatest accomplishment was destroying the standards at the club. He’s definitely at fault and his cronies in the media have been pushing the narrative that he’s overseen an amazing rebuild which is obviously nonsense.

It’s as bad as it’s ever been post Ferguson. LVG and especially Mourinho were held to a much higher standard, there was expectations.

This is why Conte is needed. He will not tolerate the complacency and will demand the best.

Exactly. Conte won’t accept complacency in the boardroom either, which is probably why he won’t get appointed.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

https://www.espn.com/soccer/manches...glazers-as-apathy-and-low-standards-take-hold

I feel like our lack of success is not only down to having a poor coach, but also because the club owners has set the bar so low for success here at United. The owner might be willing to splash a lot of cash, but if we are just going after the top four trophy, we might as well just use those funds to rebuild Old trafford and give it to charity because we dont need much to get in that position.

When you look at the standards at other top clubs, for example psg, where they are 7 points on top of the league and already beaten one of the best team in Europe, yet Pochettino is still under crazy amount of pressure. Similiarly, we wouldn’t expect managers from city, Bayern, liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona, and chelsea to survive putting their club into Europa league. I am pretty sure if Abramovic was our owners, after the liverpool game, Ole would have been sacked on the spot. The club owners needs to set a higher bar and ensure that we get back to the glory days of United under ferguson.

I was thinking it was difficult to mention Poch considering the title of the thread but well done.

 

[Bilbo]

Honours in the last ten years;

2010	Premier League, FA Cup
2012	Champions League, FA Cup
2013	Europa League
2015	Premier League, League Cup
2017	Premier League
2018	FA Cup
2019 2021	Europa League UEFA Champions League

I wouldnt say our approach has done too badly, no way other than Pep in that period has really had a sustained spell of retaining big trophies, and even then for as many premier leagues as they have had in that time, there yet to get the champions league.

Klopp's Liverpool would be viewed as sustainable and which trophy have they retained in consecutive seasons under him? The reality is there is a lot of competition and it is a lot harder to continually churn out premier league trophies now.

This is the problem with the "United Way" and the arrogance of it, ultimately football is fairly simple its about buying good players, having a balanced squad and a manager that suits the players at his disposal. This notion that United have to wait for some Fergie Manager Regen, who is going to come in and lead you to a strikingly similar period of dominance as the 2000-2010 period is ridiculous. How about trying to compete for the big two trophies first and just getting in a manager you know is capable of winning those things?

Not trying to put Chelsea down here. More illustrate that, since Jose MK 1, you've not managed to create a situation where you have been considered the dominant PL side for any real length of time. 3 league titles in the last 15 seasons is decent but no more than that, and your most successful seasons have often been followed by a poor one.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, but it's not the route I would like United to take. Nothing to do with the 'United Way', which to me has always been about bringing through youth rather than our approach to firing managers.

 

[Bilbo]

For year I’ve been saying that Ole’s greatest accomplishment was destroying the standards at the club

As a fanbase our expectations of this team under Ole have gone from 'get back in the top 4' to 'comfortable top 4 finish' to now 'must challenge for the title' so it's fair to argue that he has raised the standards of the club, no?

 

[Hawks2008]

Because we are Nepotism FC, we prioritise mates and vibes not standards and accountability.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Our owners have made so many mistakes. Gave Moyes the 6 year contract first.

Then sacked LVG the day after he won us a trophy which was disrespectful.

Then gave Mou a huge contract and sacked him only months later.

Now they give all our coaching staff big new contracts again when it’s clear as day they aren’t up for it. A week later all goes totally wrong.

It’s just comedy at this point. All while they allow our most valuable player to run his contract down to a free.

Add to that the contracts we've handed out to the likes of Mata and Co, and it shows how poor we are at forecasting the future performance of people at the club.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Pitches have been stormed for less than a 5-0 drubbing against your fiercest rival, let's put it that way. Yet our manager was clapped off. So yeah I agree, our fanbase is partly to blame I fear.

100% correct.

 

[El Zoido]

As a fanbase our expectations of this team under Ole have gone from 'get back in the top 4' to 'comfortable top 4 finish' to now 'must challenge for the title' so it's fair to argue that he has raised the standards of the club, no?

Yeah I agree, some revisionism going on here. The standards are high, Ole is a winner himself, instilled in him by Ferguson. The loss on Sunday will have been devastating to him no doubt, but if he hasn’t got what it takes then he hasn’t got it. Doesn’t mean he’s not a winner.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

The board and the owner don't share the same principle as the fans.

 

[stefan92]

Yeah I agree, some revisionism going on here. The standards are high, Ole is a winner himself, instilled in him by Ferguson. The loss on Sunday will have been devastating to him no doubt, but if he hasn’t got what it takes then he hasn’t got it. Doesn’t mean he’s not a winner.

Calling someone a winner who is not winning anything is bollocks.

Ole as a player surely was, but there is very little indication that he has what it takes to be a title winning coach, and surely he is not at the moment amd probably never will be.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Devils advocate here.

Yes I know we just lost to Liverpool. But in 2017/2018 we were runners up to Man City. In 2020/2021 we were runners up again.

I would say that given the frankly insane levels of investment Manchester City throw at their footballers in order to compete with US (not just us competing with them) then it's an extremely tough ask to get us above them. My argument is simple - that to realistically compete IN THE LONG TERM (and not just over 3-4 years like spuds or the Scouse) you have to invest similarly extortionate amounts of money every season. An example is if you go stock car racing with your next door neighbors kid but he has 2x the money you do, and you race against him every week - either you have to have a far, FAR better driver than him, because he's always going to have the best car - or you settle for winning the odd race, but over 10 years it's obvious who's going to win more championships.

That's not to say you give up or stop racing - maybe his dad gets bored, maybe you get a windfall yourself, maybe you just end up clicking somehow with your car. But the odds are always against you.

 

[pratyush_utd]

The board and the owner don't share the same principle as the fans.

You sure? Supporters who are attending were signing Ole at the wheel and is more and less backing Ole. Most of the former United players are backing Ole. “DNA” gets thrown around more often than winning trophies.