Michael Carrick | 2021/22 Interim-Interim Manager Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dion

Full Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
4,338
Redlyn said:
For all the so called chances the xG was less than 1. The usual system and players have been an integral part of the trainwreck.
Last I will say on this, is I for one wouldn't change a thing in that match and we dont have to agree.
Click to expand...
Which, weirdly enough is about average for Villareal. Which for a team that is 12th should tell you everything you need to know.

I also shouldn't need to point this out, but while xG is a useful metric for many situations, it's absolutely horrible for single point analysis like you're trying to do here. It works because it's based on large data sets which "smooth out the edges" on the final calculation and as such should be used when describing large data sets, not individual games.
 
Last edited:

Pronewbie

Peep
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
6,671
Location
In front of My Computer
Matt851 said:
Great yeah continued failure is important, otherwise we might get some competent coaches in
Click to expand...
Why does it have to be either or? And not if it's in a diminished role to learn the ropes and have some form of continuity. If the new coaching team comes in and stinks up the place we'd have to start from 0 (again) just like what Moyes did. Most modern successful clubs have such a structure in place.
 

Caesar2290

New Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
1,283
Adnan said:
Click to expand...
I remember reading a while back that Carrick and Mckenna were training the team for a 4-3-3 formation while Ole and Phelan were persisting with a 4-2-3-1 formation.

Whatever the case this looks like a PR spin designed to direct some goodwill towards our current set of coaches.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Caesar2290 said:
I remember reading a while back that Carrick and Mckenna were training the team for a 4-3-3 formation while Ole and Phelan were persisting with a 4-2-3-1 formation.

Whatever the case this looks like a PR spin designed to direct some goodwill towards our current set of coaches.
Click to expand...
McKenna from what we've seen is a proactive coach and looks to play a proactive brand of football. It was absurd of Mourinho to bring him into his back room staff when their ideals were polar opposite.

It's also why I doubted he had much say in Ole playing a low/mid block, when he never coached in that way.
 

Lecland07

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2021
Messages
2,835
I know people are dismissing this idea, but it is nonsense that the manager has nothing to do with the coaching.

The coaches may control the actual coaching, but the manager controls how the coaches coach the team. He has full power over what is done.

I have never known any other instance where the coaches have taken so much flack in place of the manager. The manager controls the coaches and they do as he wants.

This happens in all jobs: you do as your manager says. You may be able to suggest changes etc., but it is entirely up to your manager whether he does anything with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: roonster09

Pronewbie

Peep
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
6,671
Location
In front of My Computer
Lecland07 said:
I know people are dismissing this idea, but it is nonsense that the manager has nothing to do with the coaching.

The coaches may control the actual coaching, but the manager controls how the coaches coach the team. He has full power over what is done.

I have never known any other instance where the coaches have taken so much flack in place of the manager. The manager controls the coaches and they do as he wants.

This happens in all jobs: you do as your manager says. You may be able to suggest changes etc., but it is entirely up to your manager whether he does anything with it.
Click to expand...
I think we've got a fair few on here who've not yet joined the workforce.

It's very likely that 4-3-3 was considered at some point. There were reports of us training with a 433 in mind during preseason to fit in the likes of Pogba.
 

OmarUnited4ever

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
3,438
Pronewbie said:
Am I the only one here who thinks that it would be nice for Carrick and /or McKenna to stay on in some kind of diminished capacity (if they are willing to) when a new manager comes in? Just for some form of continuity.
Click to expand...
Not a bad idea to retain Carrick as coach working under an experienced head coach, new head coach can lead the training sessions and Carrick can support the new head coach, also the new head coach will take charge of tactics and instructions to the players. Carrick knows the players so he can help the new coach in that.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Lecland07 said:
I know people are dismissing this idea, but it is nonsense that the manager has nothing to do with the coaching.

The coaches may control the actual coaching, but the manager controls how the coaches coach the team. He has full power over what is done.

I have never known any other instance where the coaches have taken so much flack in place of the manager. The manager controls the coaches and they do as he wants.

This happens in all jobs: you do as your manager says. You may be able to suggest changes etc., but it is entirely up to your manager whether he does anything with it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The back room staff can only coach the team in the plan the head coach/manager wants them to coach in. Solskjaer clearly setup us to play in a low/mid, compact block against decent teams and the coaching staff can only adapt to what the guy in charge wants.

Hansi Flick worked under Trappatoni at Salzburg and said that it was good experience for him but his ideals on the game were very different to the Italian and he had to adapt his coaching to the Italians defensive minded tactics.

Now I'm not saying McKenna should be given the gig or anything, because I fully believe we need a high calibre and experienced coaching team. But I do believe he's a very promising young coach that got thrust into the fire unfairly by Mourinho who it seemed was hell bent on getting the sack. And then the very inexperienced Solskjaer, who wasn't a coach on the training ground and hence the burden of demands fell on a rookie McKenna, who was our only coach who had a understanding of implementing a modern way of playing the game.
 
Last edited:

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
11,616
Location
DownUnder
spiriticon said:
I don't think there was a change in tactical set up per se, just a change in focus.

Carrick focused on defence before attack, whereas Ole focused on attack before defence.

Ole's philosophy was correct for Man Utd, but the 'you score three, we score four' only works if we actually score four. We were scoring zero.
Click to expand...
Last few games under Ole we generally had 7 players in defence not marking anybody and kept getting over run in midfield. So I’d strongly disagree Ole focused on attacking before defence. Generally Fred and McTommy in midfield throughout his tenure to protect the backline, rather than enhance the attack.
 

Seij

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
1,398
Red_toad said:
Last few games under Ole we generally had 7 players in defence not marking anybody and kept getting over run in midfield. So I’d strongly disagree Ole focused on attacking before defence. Generally Fred and McTommy in midfield throughout his tenure to protect the backline, rather than enhance the attack.
Click to expand...
Correction: Ole claimed he focused on attacking before defense. He told people he plays free-flowing, attacking football.
 

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
11,616
Location
DownUnder
Seij said:
Correction: Ole claimed he focused on attacking before defense. He told people he plays free-flowing, attacking football.
Click to expand...
He claimed he was confident in his ability to turn round this season. Didn’t really work in reality either.
 

hungrywing

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
10,225
Location
Your Left Ventricle
Adnan said:
Click to expand...
I can believe this. It's not outside the realm of plausibility and hence should be considered before being dismissed outright as self-interested spin.

Reason being that our play was so poor that one felt there was no way that coaches who had their badges supported by even a fledgling data department could be so bad. As easy as it is to criticize Carrickenna, it's a very bad idea to waste this opportunity to gain information (how they would have us play with the Ole variable removed).

We have players with access to world-class resources outside the club; they can serve as a barometer/hold the caretaker team accountable and the caretaker team know that as well.
 

AjaxCunian

vexingwijsneus
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
4,240
Supports
Ajax & United
Can't help but feel for Mike, I think he was about to knock Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Ten Hag from the throne.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Murtough has blocked Carrick's development as a first team coach by appointing his mate Ralf from Germany. Not sure it's a good move.
 

Regulus Arcturus Black

Full Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,898
Location
Somewhere out there
Carrick has been a coach, nothing more. You rightfully don’t give Phelan any real credit for our 2008 CL/league double win so don’t blame Carrick for Ole’s massive shortcomings.
His job is to coach what is instructed by the manager.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
12,221
Location
Jamaica
MyOnlySolskjaer said:


Full Name: Michael Carrick
Date of Birth: Jul 28, 1981 (Age 40)
Nationality: England

Previous Role: Assistant Manager
Current Role: Interim-Interim Manager
Coaching Licence: UEFA Pro Licence
Appointed: Nov 21, 2021
Contract until: TBD

Credit to @VanDeBank

​
Click to expand...
He wasn't assistant manager. That was Phelan.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
12,221
Location
Jamaica
Rash Decision said:
I think the best we can hope for is for our newfangled football structure to make a proper decision this time, as we don’t have insight as to what exactly the dynamics of the coaching staff are. I’d be more inclined for McKenna to stay and actually learn the ropes from more experienced coaches (as opposed to leading the training on his own) since he was very highly rated as a youth coach, whereas Carrick has zero experience and reputation outside of being on Jose’s and Ole’s staffs. I’m surprised that Carrick was given the nod for caretaker manager instead of McKenna, actually.
Click to expand...
Seen things that say Carrick was more liked or rather he communicated to the players in a better way than McKenna who came off like a school teacher.
 

Relevated

fixated with venom and phalluses
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
25,995
Location
18M1955/JU5
Rash Decision said:
I think the best we can hope for is for our newfangled football structure to make a proper decision this time, as we don’t have insight as to what exactly the dynamics of the coaching staff are. I’d be more inclined for McKenna to stay and actually learn the ropes from more experienced coaches (as opposed to leading the training on his own) since he was very highly rated as a youth coach, whereas Carrick has zero experience and reputation outside of being on Jose’s and Ole’s staffs. I’m surprised that Carrick was given the nod for caretaker manager instead of McKenna, actually.
Click to expand...
Carrick has worked under LVG, Mourinho And also Ole.
 

Amar__

Geriatric lover and empath
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
24,111
Location
Sarajevo
Supports
MK Dons
Adnan said:
Murtough has blocked Carrick's development as a first team coach by appointing his mate Ralf from Germany. Not sure it's a good move.
Click to expand...
What?

If he is good enoug he can always show it at other club and come back in few years.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
hellhunter said:
Maybe I missed it, but where does the idea that Murtough and Rangnick are friends come from? Have their paths ever crossed before?
Click to expand...
According to Raf Honigstein, Murtough and Rangnick last met in 2019. I also listen to a podcast which has guests from around Europe who work in various different capacities within the football side of different clubs, and they have also said that many Sporting directors sought Murtough's advice on building data science departments and it was also mentioned that Rangnick consulted Murtough when the RB clubs began looking into building a Sports Science department many many years ago.

Murtough is described as a innovator in in his particular field in the UK.
 

Amar__

Geriatric lover and empath
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
24,111
Location
Sarajevo
Supports
MK Dons
Adnan said:
I know, but why has Murtough chosen a friend of his, when we don't like 'mates fc' at the club?
Click to expand...
Adnan said:
According to Raf Honigstein, Murtough and Rangnick last met in 2019. I also listen to a podcast which has guests from around Europe who work in various different capacities within the football side of different clubs, and they have also said that many Sporting directors sought Murtough's advice on building data science departments and it was mentioned that that Rangnick consulted Murtough when RB clubs began looking into building a Sports Science department many many years ago.

Murtough is described as a innovator in in his particular field in the UK.
Click to expand...
Sounds more like someone he knows and appreciates, than a friend of his.
 

DOTA

wants Amber Rudd to call him a naughty boy
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
24,504
Hopefully that's that. Has done a very good job.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,724
Did his job, hopefully we will announce Rangnick before Arsenal game.
 

Attila

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
11,059
Location
RIP Mino
Supports
Trad Bricks
He's absolutely quality and deserves to stay on. Shades of Diego simeone today.

Just put Ralph in a director role and keep Carrick as manager
 

DavelinaJolie

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
3,471
It hasn't been pretty but he got the team playing more sound defensive football. It's a start.
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
22,541
Location
Polska
Four points vs Villareal & Chelsea.

Some dignity preserved after Ole's implosion and mental breakdown to tears in last interview.
 

BorisManUtd

Full Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
3,840
Win against Villarreal to get us through in Champions League and now a point at Stamford Bridge against possible future champions. Job well done, but is it confirmed that this is his last game and Rangnick takes over from tomorrow?
 

kiristao

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
4,653
Location
Goa, India
Was happy with the team selection. Not so much with the subs.
Would have preferred Lingard for Sancho and VDB for Rashford. Playing Ronaldo on the left where we were constantly being exposed due to the lack of defensive work by Rashford almost cost us at the end.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.