I agree and I believe this going to be the most realistic process, unless United sign a proven manager who already possess the level / standard the club is aspiring to reach. The manager has to show enough that the short-term is totally justifiable to be overlooked in favor of what they are building towards in the long term. But it needs to have evidence of some tangible success and most of it revolves around philosophy because it's the only metric that guarantee's a manager becomes more successful with time as opposed to it.
Omar Berrada | Man Utd CEO
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You have zero clue if this is actually true, and it barely makes sense as a point even if it was true.
I can clearly remember the early Fergie years and you can almost word for word, see the same criticisms leveled at Ten Hag
"There's no style of play" "There's no identity" "He spent loads, and his signings are crap" "He comes from a farmer's league" "Substitutions are baffling" etc etc....
So I think its unfair to judge Ten Hag on this season, and it's potentially a big mistake.
Imagine kicking Fergie out after 2 years...!!
The crap that Ten Hag has had to deal with off the pitch such as the Sancho, Ronaldo, and Greenwood situations, and Rashford & Martial sulking like sugar plum fairies.
The lack of form of Mount, Casemiro, Antony and others, a ridiculous injury list, and of course total incompetence above him, not to mention a protracted take over, creating even further distraction.
When you take all of these things, and more, into consideration, it's really no wonder that we are having a ragged season.
I say, give Ten Hag a season under 'best in class' recruitment and scouting, under a 'best in class' CEO, DOF, and Sporting Director.
Get rid of the negative influencers in the dressing room, and then judge Ten Hag, and then let's see what he can do.
I wasn’t so much focus on the fanbase point as I was on the manager.
But since you brought it up, fans are fickle by our very nature. We ALL are, not just some of us, it’s just sometimes we are more fickle about certain things than others. I don’t necessarily think United fans are more fickle, but because we have such a massive fanbase we have a significant vocal amount of them. And the most vocal fans are usually ones complaining about something.
Personally, I feel there have been a ridiculous set of circumstances happen at United in the last 6 months (not just injuries) that really do explain a massive drop in levels. I’m not going through them again as people don’t engage on it, just brush it aside as an “excuse” so they aren’t interested in discussing its relevance.
If this was a fairly straightforward season and we were playing like this, I’d expect he would have been sacked when we were knocked out of CL. No matter how much people want to dismiss what’s happened to United , it’s been a huge problem, the only thing we cant say is the degree to which these issues explain how bad it’s been.
United are also in a state of change , potentially change that could have huge ramifications on the clubs direction. The new owner could already want ETH gone or maybe they are happy to get into the club and spend the next 6 months rigorously assessing everything.
Regardless, right now the club future is relatively more settled and there’s a lot of optimism about what SJR seems to be proposing. Players are coming back from injuries (and should be fresh when fully fit) and we don’t have a gruelling schedule the second half of season. I’m kind of excited to see if ETH can turn it around, I’d get nothing from a Caretaker manager because they would be getting a relatively fully fit squad and an improved/confident looking club by virtue of the sale sh*te being behind us.
By the summer , they would be in a much better position to make an informed choice on ETH and players. Even looking at if players react to the manager in these troubled times can tell us a lot about their character or if they haven’t the mentality and application we want going forward.
If things have gone bad, the new manager starts with low expectations. Allows the club to keep working on its infrastructure for the longer term good of the club. No stupid marquee signings, focusing on value , quality and longer term plans (not what does this manager need).
Quote me saying he can do no wrong or stop making stuff up
Stop talking shit about him for being an ex employee of Citeh. Everyone needs to feed their family. He is now our Berrada.
Get it?
Get it?
Appreciate these sensible posts in a sea of nonsensical takes that suggest Conte, Zidane, etc. to replace him or claim that literally anyone would do a better job than ETH without a hint of irony.
I agree with this, he deserves that chance. He had it at Ajax and delivered great football and results. He showed flashes of it last year with his best team fully fit.
How about we base it on the other managers that has come through the door except maybe Moyes and Ole. They all had high reputations, they have all won big trophies. Yet they failed here. It’s a continuous thing that happens over and over again. We won’t know if a manager can succeed here until we get it right upstairs. We need to set a standard and structure. Set a style of play and sign players to fit it. Not every managers target. We’ve gone wrong in so many places. ETH was highly regarded at Ajax. He had them playing fantastic football, they was brilliant in the CL, so you can’t just say it’s because of the league. He’s got something about him… he’s just maybe at the wrong club or working under the wrong people.
If you cannot discern someone as being charismatic then that points to being unable to appropriately judge character, it's a big factor because the topic of discussion revolved around the managers capacity to manage at another big club. Which inadvertently is a place where you will find big personalities and big ego's.
Our longest winning run was 5 PL Games. That should be pretty standard for a club like us. Our longest unbeaten run under ETH is 6 PL Games. That should be bread and butter for a club like us. As I said previously, all our over Managers have managed higher stats than that. ETH has by some distance the biggest loss percentage. That's ultimately been the issue with him, we've had no consistency, we win a few games, then we lose. It's been a consistent pattern with ETH here.
Nah, as I said before. Our fans on here have been fairly realistic with every Manager post Sir Alex. Most give a new Manager time to bed in and allow them to spend money and develop their team before standards are raised. ETH has been no different, all of us gave him slack for last season and since the Summer expectations have naturally been raised. We spent more money, he had more time training in pre season, he'd had a full season to assess the squad. It's only realistic therefore that expectations are raised and the bar is lifted to the next step. Very few thought we'd win the title and most were optimistic that we'd be at least challenging initially.
To point the finger of blame at our fans (as Fox did) is a cnutish post. No excuse for it and to label it as a great post is disrespectful to our fans that are generally as a collective a great bunch of supporters.
We're playing worse football and losing games at a higher rate than any of the previous managerial flops. Cant be much to be hopeful for when you have -5 goal difference in February.
But disingenuous that logic. Ten Hag want proven at any sort of decent level, Eredivisie only. One good CL run means nothing, many managers at minnow teams have done that. Poor managers have actually won the whole thing. But we all know Ten Hag is not anywhere near the level of Klopp, so to say that he had a bad season and that somehow excuses ETH (and practically every other half decent manager really, when you think about it) isn't sound logic. This is because everybody knew Klopp could do it, he had proven it at a top level consistently. To the extent that you knew he just needed the players to go all the way at Liverpool. That can't be said of Ten Hag.
And again, you're very wrong about United fans only wanting success. Where have you been for the last 10 years? Ask you ever hear is posters saying we need to get top 4, or the "this seasons expectations" threads full of people saying they want top 4 and a good cup run etc. Never really a mention of major honours. Standards are actually in the gutter these days.
I'm not sure about what the stats are just in the PL, but looking at all competitions Moyes has a bigger loss percentage (which is incredible considering he took over the champions, albeit many of them were on their last legs). ETH has the second biggest, but he also has the highest win percentage of all of them. We rarely draw games under him so obviously that ends up with getting more of both wins and losses.
Points per game is probably the best thing to look at, and ETH has the second best behind Mourinho.
Mourinho - 1.97 ppg
ETH - 1.91
Ole - 1.84
LVG - 1.81
Moyes - 1.73
This is for me where it gets awkward for Berrata. The upper leaders in City have every reason to wipe it off Berrada now he’s moved. There’s no way they’ll cover anything up regarding him, maybe even the contrary where they try and blame him more for any of their own wrongdoings, but at least they have to prove it. Who knows, Berrata himself can even have brought dirt on the others with him, that keeps them from throwing him under the bus. Really hard to tell.
One really hopes that due diligence has been done, but how can it really? It’s only because of leaks we’ve seen some of City’s misdoings surface and it’s probably just the tip of the iceberg.
No matter how good he is, it is on the back on a system that has cooked the books, which might also make him look a greater possible CEO than he might be in reality.
He receives a lot of praise, but I’ll stay on the fence for probably around 2-3 years minimum. If he ends up banned then it hasn’t really been stable and professional leadership. His CV on paper is great though.
Erik is heralded for his achievements with Ajax which are respectable but often overstated. It's almost as if there's a sense of bewilderment with this seasons current failings and the reason that imperative is present is because for many, this manager was an anomaly 'the' guarantee of success in some sense.
A failed regime will often purport optimism in any new movement or transition and due to SAF there's an awaited expectance of a hero centric figure to replicate the club's former success and while there's nothing wrong with maintaining that hope, it shouldn't become an illusion to defer from evaluating the reality of what's present.
Erik was a manager that showed promise and he has been handed an opportunity to prove himself, no different to if United hired Ruben Amorim. He never had the competitive environment managerially where the transcendence of his success was an unequivocal certainty. There are very few individuals who fit that caliber. Erik is a good manager but good is only customary to the standard it is being referred to. Is Erik a good Manchester United manager?
Is this the Ten Hag thread or about our new CEO?
Let’s keep on topic please,
Let’s keep on topic please,
It wasn't. I think it's fair to be judge United making stupid decisions based on their track record, but I'm happy to give the new lot the benefit of the doubt.
True…
Yeah Omar is a positive step,hopefully we get a tweet from Ornstein in next couple of weeks breaking news about Director of Football and then Head of Recruitment after
There's a reason why clubs sack managers. As a club, we can't continue to waste seasons on hope like we have been doing over the past ten years. The manager needs to prove, through performances, that he deserves time. If we were losing games, but playing good football, people won't be as annoyed as they are now. Wenger was able to stay at Arsenal for years because, despite the group of player available to him, he could consistently string good football.
The issue I have with Ten Haag's support at the moment is that he's still being called a good manager with little evidence to suggest it. Performances have been poor, yet the club and players are taking so much of the brunt for this, whilst Ten Haag is being excused despite the players and club carrying out his plan. No decent club allows a manager to get away with the performances we've put out this season, regardless of circumstance. It simply doesn't happen. No club is willing to waste season on season in hope of a turnaround despite there being no sign of it. As a club, we're far too emotional. It's a business where success matters. This isn't Sir Alex in the 90's where United weren't established. This is a United that spend more than any team in world football. It's a global juggernaut with more fans than any other team in the world. Why would a club like that accept mediocrity. We're not a charity and Ten Haag doesn't deserve to be paid millions to lose games because we need to give him a chance. This is what irks me. You can't complain about falling standards, talk about letting players like Bruno, Casemiro and Rashford go, then turn around and give Ten Haag time. We've seen quality from Rashford, Bruno, Casemiro and Varane. Their tried and tested.
For me, where is the line. How bad does he need to be not to absolve him. How long do we need to struggle to understand that managers need to prove themselves to earn time. How many seasons have to be wasted. We can laugh at Woodward and Ole for the United way, yet not understand that the very failure of that concept is not in the play but in the way we treat managers. Too much autonomy, too much leeway, no supervision and too much failed time. Klopp proved how good and consistent his football could be. So when bad times kicked in, the club could trust that his system worked well enough to keep faith and not even question him. If Arteta was the one falling on hard times, Arsenal would be advised to keep him, based on the fact that his system has been consistent, produced goals and has shown game to game success. So even with a bad spell, he' d be given time to rectify. However, Ten Haag hasn't proven that at United. In addition, unlike Mourinho or LVG, he well enough prior to his arrival to assume otherwise. We signed him on potential, he's failed to fulfill it, hence he should leave.
I just hope that our gazumpimg of City’s executive goes better than our gazumping of their transfer targets in the past.
Needs to update his profile too
ETH did well in the first season, he didn’t need to be cut any slack. He needs that this season and he’s not getting any leeway from some.
expectations were raised by how the team did last season , not by the transfer window.
Give over with the drama on disrespecting fans
Hold up are you living in the future?
He remains a City employee while he serves his notice period (which will presumably be away from the club on garden leave). It is unlikely he will make any comment in the interim.
He will go when his contract expires.
Welcome to the Leaky Cauldron Omar.
What the feck is up with this thread? Wall upon wall of irrelevant off topic nonsense.
Hopefully he is being kept in touch with INEOS and asked for his views on suitability of potential Director of Football and Head of Recruitment
Omar bringing the ruthlessness of City into our club is what I'm most excited to see. If the reports of him giving underperforming players a maximum of a year or so to prove themselves is true as well as fixing the wage structure along with it, our club culture can be fixed rapidly. There's a good chance we'll see a massive change within a year's time.
We dont play again until February so we will officially have -5 goal difference in the league. In February.
An absurd statistic for a club who's manager has spent £400m in 3 transfer windows on his own choices.
This is real "rebuild" happening at United and I hope ETH will be part of it. With a right recruitment strategy and vision behind him, he might do very well.
The vision to turn a reasonably effective counter attacking team into one that cant attack or defend in the space of one summer?
Hopefully he's going to have real power. Nothing should be off the table regarding the players. We don’t shake the core squad up enough. If our scouting is excellent and our recruitment build good relationships then we can build a much hungrier team, slash the wage bill with smarter transfers at 50 million quid like City Real and Bayern do these days. Saying that I’d pay what it took to get Neves. I think he's a top player in the making. It just depends on how professional he is.
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Is this the ten hag thread or the CEO thread?
Haven't been lurking much in this thread but wait, there are caftards already writing him off? Can't say I'm surprised.....
My only concern is him being implicated
That's what we do now ?
