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stefan92

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The overuse of pressing and high-lines regardless of squad attributes was definitely a regular criticism for years. Generalised, but not without reason. However, a vague comment about time and space never goes out of fashion when you need a quick comment to put an entire league down.
But there is definitely some truth about this. Was thinking about this constant discussion on the weekend. Could you image this scenario: Burnley (weakest PL away team) is leading 1-0 away against Manchester City and commits five players to press City in their own half in the 94th minute? I honestly can't, but that's what Bremen did against Bayern.
 

Real Name

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I've been following the Sancho situation very closely since he was one of my absolute favorite players when he was playing for Dortmund. I watched their games primarily to see him play and after he left my interest in them dropped significantly. So I'm not exactly a neutral who didn't catch the details or anything like that. And I think that there is not even close to enough information publicly available to judge who is to blame to which extent. You and me only know the top of the iceberg and have no idea what happened below the surface. There are definitely scenarios imaginable that would shed a completely different light on the situation. People like to point out that Sancho always had disciplinary issues but his former club was so concerned about them that they took him back at the first possible occasion. And even his former United coach Rangnick publicly said that he conducted himself perfectly fine under him, effectively refuting Ten Hag's claim that there have been problems with Sancho ever since he joined the club. In fact, if you assume Ten Hag sent Sancho to the training camp because of disciplinary issues then Sancho has already swallowed his pride once without any complaint. And if Ten Hag meant psychic problems with "mental issues" then it sheds a pretty unfavorable light on his treatment of a mentally labile player. One way or another, this is definitely not as one-sided as you depict it.

That most United fans agree with your take and not mine is in my opinion down to them being so fed up with players running the club that they overcompensate now and adopt a "finally! Serves those cnuts right" attitude whenever a manager strongarms a player without asking many questions. But from a management perspective, if you have a team within your organization that rises attention because of continuous infights, maybe even with their team lead, the first thing you assume that there is something wrong with the leadership. But even very concretely, how Ten Hag spoke about Sancho publicly violated some very basic principles of modern leadership. That may appeal to the schadenfreude of the frustrated United fan but overall it is not constructive, forward oriented, diplomatic, intelligent or farsighted to not only criticize your player publicly. And Ten Hag did not only do it once, he doubled down on these statements twice after Sancho was already gone. in fact, from a communicative point of view, those quotes are so clumsy that you have to assume he did it on purpose. Add to that his insistence on a personal apology and all of this comes across as very vane. Regardless of your opinion on Sancho, that is plain and simple terrible leadership.

And yes, I know that some managers criticize players publicly to tease them a bit but that is a very risky stylistic device and if it backfires then you have obviously miscalculated the situation.
How did ETH criticize him when he was gone?
 

Zed is not dead

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But there is definitely some truth about this. Was thinking about this constant discussion on the weekend. Could you image this scenario: Burnley (weakest PL away team) is leading 1-0 away against Manchester City and commits five players to press City in their own half in the 94th minute? I honestly can't, but that's what Bremen did against Bayern.
Yeah I thought the same when I watched thzt game. Bundesliga teams defend like United actually.
They overcommit offensively, leaving huge gaps through the midfield and defence
 

Krakenzero

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He's not completely wrong.
He thinks the player is being forced to apologize publicly (something we don't know) and that ETH criticized him publicly (something that didn't happen). So at best he's misinformed.
 

stefan92

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He thinks the player is being forced to apologize publicly (something we don't know) and that ETH criticized him publicly (something that didn't happen). So at best he's misinformed.
It's a fact that EtH said he didn't select Sancho due to his training performances. That counts as public criticism for me (although it might be fully justified, this doesn't mean EtH was wrong, but it did happen).

The stuff about a public apology has been published, but we indeed don't know if that's really true. Nonetheless we know that Sancho didn't want to do whatever was required from him to return to the squad (remember, he was even banished from team training and the facilities, not only from the matchday squad), so those reports at least sound plausible.

I also think we can be sure that Sancho didn't refuse to do what he was told to (as far as he was legally required to do) because otherwise there would have been reports/statements about him being fined for that.
 

HTG

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The BDL rallying around Sancho is quite funny. Come on lads, he's a waster.
It really is strange. As strange as I find the volume of criticism the Bundesliga receives on here, the relentless defense of anything remotely related to the Bundesliga is just as strange. I don’t get it. Especially in a case that is as obvious and one sided as that of Sancho. There’s just no real argument to be made in his case.
 

Zed is not dead

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It really is strange. As strange as I find the volume of criticism the Bundesliga receives on here, the relentless defense of anything remotely related to the Bundesliga is just as strange. I don’t get it. Especially in a case that is as obvious and one sided as that of Sancho. There’s just no real argument to be made in his case.
Social media as well. The instagram or twitter football pages have been raving about Sancho’s two games for Borussia so far
 

Hammondo

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He thinks the player is being forced to apologize publicly (something we don't know) and that ETH criticized him publicly (something that didn't happen). So at best he's misinformed.
He did criticize him publicly, and he is being force to apologize, but not necessarily publicly.
 

HTG

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Social media as well. The instagram or twitter football pages have been raving about Sancho’s two games for Borussia so far
I think that’s just trying to force the obvious memes and reactions towards United. People want him to be a success so bad, just to make fun of you, that they are basically overrating his every performance. Very annoying if you ask me.
So far he was ok. No more, no less.
 

Desmosedici

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Im still curious when he get back here at OT and see what the new management sees in him.

if he’s sold at the end of this season, i believe something wrong in him, otherwise ten hag must be the one that blamed and go
 

Pickle85

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It really is strange. As strange as I find the volume of criticism the Bundesliga receives on here, the relentless defense of anything remotely related to the Bundesliga is just as strange. I don’t get it. Especially in a case that is as obvious and one sided as that of Sancho. There’s just no real argument to be made in his case.
Agreed. And agree with the BL criticism piece (of which I've definitely been guilty in the past - apologies!)
 

FrantikChicken

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He did criticize him publicly, and he is being force to apologize, but not necessarily publicly.
No he didn’t. Ten hag said other players had a higher level than Sancho in training that week, which is why he didn’t get picked. It simply means someone else worked harder than you, not that you didn’t work hard.
 

Rockets Redglare

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Im still curious when he get back here at OT and see what the new management sees in him.

if he’s sold at the end of this season, i believe something wrong in him, otherwise ten hag must be the one that blamed and go
He won’t be coming back to United, he can’t cope with the premier league.
 

stefan92

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No he didn’t. Ten hag said other players had a higher level than Sancho in training that week, which is why he didn’t get picked. It simply means someone else worked harder than you, not that you didn’t work hard.
Semantics aside what you want to call said statement, it all comes down to: EtH said other players performed better in training and Sancho disagreed.
 

groovyalbert

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No he didn’t. Ten hag said other players had a higher level than Sancho in training that week, which is why he didn’t get picked. It simply means someone else worked harder than you, not that you didn’t work hard.
I never quite understood Sancho's response to what were direct but relatively tame comments from ETH. Ironically, Sancho's entire reaction has only really gone to show ETH was right in his verdict.
 

amolbhatia50k

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It really is strange. As strange as I find the volume of criticism the Bundesliga receives on here, the relentless defense of anything remotely related to the Bundesliga is just as strange. I don’t get it. Especially in a case that is as obvious and one sided as that of Sancho. There’s just no real argument to be made in his case.
Yeah I mean I think people mock the Bundesliga far too much here. But Sancho showed himself up big time here as a real mentality wimp. Give him space and he’ll look lovely, turn on the heat and he shrivels. Just the type of player we didn’t need despite being a player I really really wanted us to have. The fact that there’s so many here and otherwise bigging him smacks of desperation and point scoring and little else.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Semantics aside what you want to call said statement, it all comes down to: EtH said other players performed better in training and Sancho disagreed.
Obviously Sancho would disagree - the wimp that runs from any hint of effort and confrontation.
 

spiriticon

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He's just so damn good. Dortmund should put in an offer ASAP. Every sensational flick and twitter trend only adds 5 million onto the price.
 

FrantikChicken

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I never quite understood Sancho's response to what were direct but relatively tame comments from ETH. Ironically, Sancho's entire reaction has only really gone to show ETH was right in his verdict.
Yeah I found it really odd as well. Ten Hag didn’t really say anything extreme at all. I’m in the ETH out camp but I really can’t fault him for the way he has handled Sancho. The guy has been literally useless under 2 managers and has the nerve to complain when he evidently doesn’t perform to any sort of decent standard. Byeeeeee
 

Zehner

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You don’t have a clue.
I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.


He won’t be coming back to United, he can’t cope with the premier league.
He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
 

afrocentricity

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It is the coach who insistd on an apology after criticizing him publicly first. If he felt that he had to display his power that much ("I can criticize you publicly, but you are not allowed to criticize me publicly"), he could have just suspended him for a month (already a draconic sanction you rarely see at all) and be done with it but instead he insists on Sancho swallowing his pride and making an apology he doesn't mean.

You guys crave for a strong man who strongarms the players who you perceive as spoilt little brats so much that you let him get away with anything, even absolutely terrible leadership.
Not all of us. Some can see what a shambles this has been from all involved.....
 

Zen86

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He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
We can only dream of playing the kind of sophisticated football you get in the Bundesliga
 

Abizzz

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Not all of us. Some can see what a shambles this has been from all involved.....
Yup.

The truly bizarre thing is seeing people constantly slate ETH in every match day thread, every other other thread, but then suddenly have any excuse lined up the moment Sancho's name is mentioned...

Sancho is gone and will never be near the pitch for united again (and it's for the better). Hopefully the same can be said about ETH sooner than later.
 

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He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
I’d absolutely love it if that was the case because if he joined any of those clubs in the summer it would mean we’d have got a shit ton of cash for him in order to let him go to a arrival. It would be the ideal scenario, we recoup the money we paid for him while ridding ourselves of the prick, while one of our rivals get a lazy bastard with a bad attitude that’s more interested in playing games of fifa than actual football matches. Win, win all round. :)
 

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.




He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
No top PL club is going to go near him.
 

Doracle

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.




He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
Sancho is ideal for kick and rush football. He just needs it to be against high lines with slow defenders, so his relative lack of pace isn’t a problem.

Where he struggles is when tightly marked, with the responsibility to pick out a pass under defensive pressure or beat a top class defender. His thought process is too slow, passing technique isn’t good enough and he doesn’t have the pure speed to compensate.

He has been horribly exposed in England so far and, much as United have issues, that’s primarily on him. Perhaps with more confidence, he won’t look so hesitant and out of his depth but I’m doubtful. Sadly, I think he will probably fail any time he tries to return to the premier league.
 

FrankDrebin

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Considering the amount of space afforded in the BL, id say there's more 'kick and rush' football being played there.
 

RORY65

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We can only dream of playing the kind of sophisticated football you get in the Bundesliga
I think it's fair to say that United don't play anything near as progressive a brand of football as the very best teams in England, even when we've got results like last year, and we almost play a different sport to the best teams around but I think it's nonsense to believe that Sancho would excel with them because he's just not good enough.

There's not a chance he would start for City, Arsenal or Liverpool, he might make more of an impact in his minutes for a more dominant side but his lack of any sort of athleticism and the fact he doesn't seem to fancy it when challenged means he would be behind better players in the pecking order at those clubs.
 

afrocentricity

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Yup.

The truly bizarre thing is seeing people constantly slate ETH in every match day thread, every other other thread, but then suddenly have any excuse lined up the moment Sancho's name is mentioned...

Sancho is gone and will never be near the pitch for united again (and it's for the better). Hopefully the same can be said about ETH sooner than later.
I'm not ETH out but the red tinted specs are so cringe, as if the man is infallible in any situation. Clearly, he's not doing great in a lot of different aspects right now... It is what it is!

if you've gotta pretend that he's always right (at this point) just for your arguement to make sense, maybe you should revaluate the actual arguement you're trying to make.
 

TheReligion

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about and have rightly been shot down.
 

Zen86

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I think it's fair to say that United don't play anything near as progressive a brand of football as the very best teams in England, even when we've got results like last year, and we almost play a different sport to the best teams around but I think it's nonsense to believe that Sancho would excel with them because he's just not good enough.

There's not a chance he would start for City, Arsenal or Liverpool, he might make more of an impact in his minutes for a more dominant side but his lack of any sort of athleticism and the fact he doesn't seem to fancy it when challenged means he would be behind better players in the pecking order at those clubs.
Yes, we're pants. But the German league is turd all the same.
 

Rockets Redglare

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.




He can't cope in the EPL for a club that plays outdated kick and rush football. Would be so funny if he plays great for Dortmund and then signs for Arsenal, Liverpool or even City. I mean, I really like to see him in Germany again but that would be great as well.
It wouldn’t matter who he played for in the league, he doesn’t have the pace, work rate or strength (either physical or mental) to cope.
You honestly think he’d get in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He wouldn’t stand a chance.
 

AltiUn

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I think even if you had a clue, since you're fundamentally incapable of critical thinking in regards to your own club and echo chamber, it wouldn't matter.
Oh the irony :lol:
 

AltiUn

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Sancho doing well is a win-win for United, either he comes back reinvigorated and ready to tear up the league or we get a hefty fee for a fee who hasn't delivered for us.
 

Zehner

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It wouldn’t matter who he played for in the league, he doesn’t have the pace, work rate or strength (either physical or mental) to cope.
You honestly think he’d get in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He wouldn’t stand a chance.
In his Dortmund form, he'd definitely play for them. You don't need pace and strength to be an elite player (though Sancho's pace isn't bad either).