I agree, that was the price he had to pay to be able to compete with City in some seasons. Brilliant manager.
Klopp to leave Liverpool at the end of the season
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
- Start date
Well, as it stands, Klopp is the gold standard for finishing runners up. Whether that changes in the future, we shall wait and see.
Clearly in the biggest competition of them all, it doesn’t. Hence it’s flaws and far from perfection.
The second they meet top sides that can share possession, they hit trouble, has always been the case.
The Premier League?
Again, that’s not what I was refuting. I refuted the point a poster was making saying he consistently went toe to toe with city. Laugh all you wantHe almost instantly had to sell their best players though, did Pep? So a shit team selling their best players and you think it’s fair to claim 3 from 9 as though he should have been doing anything in those first 3 seasons
Since his rebuild was complete in 2018, he’s competed in:
2018-19 - competed in League, won CL
2019-20 - won league.
Miss
2021-22 - competed in league, bettered in CL
Miss
2023-24 (looks likely).
So 4 of 6 seasons. Considering Pep/City’s cheating, that’s extraordinary.
I'd say he's the gold standard for brilliant football management. Against a Pep led City it was only enough for one championship.
Fixed for clarity.
Pep doesn't coach flawed football? What sort of lunacy is that? Has it not occurred to you that if Klopp had Peps resources he'd implement a more consistent side? Can you explain how Liverpool were not controlled against the sides they faced in Klopps prime?
He had a phase of consistently going toe to toe, and he had seasons of needing to rebuild. I've addressed that in the posts if you read them in full rather than taking snips.
So, 3 seasons, like i initially said, with seasons finishing 5th inbetween. That’s not consistent. That’s all I said.
he’s a good manager and made a good team, I’ve no argument with that and I’m glad he’s going but he finished behind city just twice in 9 years. Twice in 6 years if you want to give him the first 3 years rebuilding grace. That’s not consistently challenging or going toe to toe with them like was first said imo but there we go. He’s got lots of praise for finishing second and getting points though so well done him.
You didn’t say phase, I’m not going back to quote you again
Yep, brilliant football management that failed to rise to the challenge of City consistently.
If you want to be pedantic and get involved in silly micro debates, go for it. I've clarified what I meant so you can move on now.
There was a phase of him consistently going toe to toe and there were periods where he had personal issues in his life he grappled with whilst rebuilding the team on less resources.
I said all of this in previous posts by the way. And he's more than just a good manager.
It did rise to it, though, beating it once and matching it twice (with this season still open).
It's actually hilarious how people want to undermine his seasons coming short of a side that has cheated in dozens of different ways
It's the truth. Liverpool under Klopp overpowered the majority of sides they came up against of course. However, just like you previously stated, they played with more risk. They were very direct and less precise than City, who left nothing to chance.
No, Klopp cannot coach Pep's style of football and unfortunately, Pep's style of football will consistently win out over 38 games due to it's precision, control and clinicality. Pep is a product of that style. It isn't something you can just decide to implement.
4 in 6 if he keeps up this season, pretty fecking consistent.
You are just chatting hypothetical nonsense now, insinuating that klopp with peps resources can't dominate teams on a more consistent basis is actually illogical.
Also Liverpool did control the vast of majority of the teams that they played in the 90+ point seasons, I'm not sure where this is coming from.
Did Pep control more? Yes, but that's because his style is a safer and frankly more boring approach. You are saying Peps style is better because he had more of the ball. I'm saying it's not because it's not any more convincing than Prime Klopp and it's not as entertaining.
1 league title and 2 runners up. Yep, that's certainly gold standard right there.
In the words of the great Ricky Bobby, "if you ain't first, you're last."
It’s not pedantic, I’ve constantly seen he would have won so much more if it wasn’t for city and city stopped him winning this and that and then you saying he constantly went toe to toe with them. I just corrected your point, He didn’t consistently go toe to toe with them. That’s all it is
It isn't illogical because we have actually seen it with our own eyes. As for the same resources, there was a time when it was genuinely arguable that Liverpool's starting 11 was better than City's. Yet, City still looked the more dominant side.
I'm saying that Pep's style is better in the sense that it is more efficient at consistently winning football matches. The proof has been in the pudding where that is concerned. It has been more convincing. As for entertainment, Klopp seems to have won your heart, so that is a triumph in itself.
As Regulus said, he'd be competing with them 4 in 6 this season.
And as I said, he had brilliant 3 year spell in his 9 years
Who are the biggest cheats?
City with their money, or Liverpool with their asthmatic players.
Competing with City in 4 out of 6 seasons is not inconsistent.
You dont have to be brilliant the win leagues and cups he has with the 3 clubs, squads, and budgets he has had.
It's completely illogical. You're guesstimating that Klopp, who was able to compete with City in 4 out of the last 6 seasons, would suddenly not be able to do much better if he had unlimited resources like Pep did. That is illogical.
Moreover, you keep talking about how dominant City look. Liverpool were dominant in their own way too, its just a stylistic difference between the two managers. You like Pep's keep ball and I appreciate Klopp's attacking more direct style. That does not however make Klopp's prime style less dominant.
Sure, the blank check and 115 counts of cheating have no relevance to it I bet.
The fawning over this cnut is nauseating. He’s done a good job at Liverpool I’ll give him that and he’ll go down as one of the top 5 managers we’ve seen in the Premier League but he’s certainly not in the top 3.
Can anybody confirm these 2 points that since Klopp joined in 15/16:
- we have finished above them 4 times in the league
- finished 2nd as many times as they have
Just want to say it to wind up some Liverpool fans I know. But I do think Klopp is an excellent manager
- we have finished above them 4 times in the league
- finished 2nd as many times as they have
Just want to say it to wind up some Liverpool fans I know. But I do think Klopp is an excellent manager
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Klopp > Pep
More exciting football and no cheating. Feck City 115 charges FC and Pep‘s boring football.
More exciting football and no cheating. Feck City 115 charges FC and Pep‘s boring football.
What vomit inducing pre match Klopp wankfest will we see at Anfield today?
A shitty banner? Klopp mosaic on the Kop?
A shitty banner? Klopp mosaic on the Kop?
Points total banners
Security personnel trying to stop a bunch of attempts at self-immolation
There's going to be a few in the crowd today crying. Give me their tears Sky/BT. Give them to me.
But City are not a football club. They are a cheating nation state dressed up as a football club, with pretend sponsors, pretend fans and pretend trophies.
1 - 3 PL titles to 1 PL title and 1 CL title. The CL title counts for more IMO, as that means that Klopp achieved everything he set out to do, which Mourinho did not. Strike rate in finals? What about even getting to the final in the first place FFS, unlike Mourinho who never got there with an English club?
2 - the feck, in what world would somebody trade away a CL win for more league wins? Champions league is the pinnacle of club football. When a manager takes on a big club, they go into it with the dream that they'll build a side that wins the league and the CL. Surely you agree with that? So actually achieving that means you reached a higher peak. What use it is talking about a treble when Mou never even won the double with an English club?
3 - and yet, they won the CL, so the if is literally stupid to consider. Why criticize Klopp for losing to real Madrid in a comparison to Mourinho who never made the final in the first place. Completely illogical.
4 - again. How is it better for a manager to never reach a CL final with an English club than having one actually win the CL once! Come on.
Yes he's a Liverpool manager but have some fecking perspective and take off the goggles. You can't surely believe that winning back to back titles is a bigger accomplishment than winning the league and CL?
Mourinho as a general football manager is ahead of Klopp. When it comes to just English football impact, Klopp has done more, as he won the CL and league with an english club, he achieved everything he set out to do when he took over, he built a side that became the best in the world. Mourinho didn't manage that.
He's certainly not top 2 because that Sir Alex and Pep locked in.
3 though? That is definitely up for debate. He's the only one of Mourinho, Wenger and Klopp who actually built an English side who became the best in the world. He won the league and the CL with this side, he successfully achieved all his targets that he set out to do. Those are facts.
Context to them is things like "net spend" which applies to him and Wenger to give them an advantage on Mourinho, who had the insane spending and yet never got to a CL final and got sacked 4 times in England. Another context is point totals, where Klopps top 3 are 99, 97 and 92, which is obviously 3 insane seasons. Another context is making 3 CL finals, compared to Wenger's 1 and Mourinho's 0. I just don't see how Mourinho is ahead of him. Wenger has longevity in the league but his side never reached the peak level that Klopps side did, so just going undefeated in one season doesn't put him ahead.
For me, to enter the top tier, you need to have built a side to have won the league and the CL. The only managers in charge of an English club to have done so are:
- Sir Matt Busby
- Bob Paisley
- Joe Fagan (taking over from Paisley's team, so didn't build it)
- Brian Clough
- Sir Alex Ferguson
- Jurgen Klopp
- Pep Guardiola
As for the Sir Alex vs Guardiola discussion... I don't really want to go into it as it's hypotheticals based on feck all. The 2 times they played each other, Peps Barca played us off the park, though it was arguably the best club side of all time with the best player of all time. Pep has dominated the league to an extraordinary level his whole career, with record point totals. Sir Alex dominated the league and kept rebuilding teams to win more, but not quite to the same extent. On the other hand, Pep has infinite resources and is in charge of a side with 115 charges against them and one day could go down for cheating and corruption. That's not Peps fault, he's still an all time great and achieved things with his squad of players that pretty much nobody else could do, but it'd just strike off his City accomplishments from his career IMO.
If Pep, Mourinho, Klopp, Sir Alex and Wenger managed in the league at the same time all at the tops of their game, I'd guess over 10 seasons you'd see something like 5 Pep wins, 3 Sir Alex, 1 Klopp, 1 Mourinho win, 0 Wenger wins. And that's only because you have to consider Pep with the resources he's had his whole career at every club, and you'd assume City would still be cheating cnuts. Can't judge him otherwise.
Firstly whoever takes over from Klopp will do a worse job.
Like him or loathe him Klopp is an expert at playing to the gallery which will get very very far at a club like Liverpool. Slag off the Tories and make a point of not answering a question from The Sun and they will love you.
As time has gone and they've struggled to sustain any challenge with City the masked a slip. Gone is the affable everyman and we've seen him for what he thin skinned bully.
Thankfully every Liverpool fan I've spoke to has figured out the solution. A manager has overseen 64 games in the Bundesliga.... what could possibly go wrong?
Like him or loathe him Klopp is an expert at playing to the gallery which will get very very far at a club like Liverpool. Slag off the Tories and make a point of not answering a question from The Sun and they will love you.
As time has gone and they've struggled to sustain any challenge with City the masked a slip. Gone is the affable everyman and we've seen him for what he thin skinned bully.
Thankfully every Liverpool fan I've spoke to has figured out the solution. A manager has overseen 64 games in the Bundesliga.... what could possibly go wrong?