Who replaces Ten Hag?

honirelandboy said:

Conte seems like the obvious choice for remainder of season, we are not going to get top four. We need two new center mids and a winger.

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Conte would not want to manage us for five minutes. He is a serious manager, not an executive or club legend with basic managerial experience.

It's quite arrogant for us to think, just because we are the big dog United, managers will be keen to assist and then cheerily chip on after a few months.

Plus, allowing Conte to spend money we don't really have on players could unduly influence any successor.

As for Marcus, well, he gets his money no matter what. Once it sinks in this irascible disciplinarian will be gone by May, performance will follow suit.

Mcking said:

Has to Inzaghi.

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Inzaghi could hire his older brother as a consultant. Get him to teach elaborate goal celebrations and how to stay offside.

Denied the Scouse in 2007 with a quality finish...

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:

I will try to explain my stance below:

He has won the league title (not fluked like Tuchel) before in a top 5 league. None of the others linked save Zidane can say so.

His prefferred style of play is closest to what ETH has done before and is trying to do.

He will ensure no radical change of footballing direction. Just better consistent movement in current direction.

He is young. He works out you can get a decade plus from him. He is also schooled in working under recruitment departments that decide who is signed to play for him.

As a coach he is the only out there apart from Zidane who has proven tactical versatility straight from the Ancelotti school of coaching. He will always have an answer to personnel challenges. He has proven in previous jobs he can make the best of personnel he is given. Which will suit us since we may not be able to do a full scale clear out rapidly. Most modern coaches are wedded to a plan A shape so wheels can fall off if they run into personnel problems. He isn't.

He is known for developing players and blooding youth. We have exciting youth in the pipeline.

He coaches some of the best pressing tactics in all of europe. His teams are thus front footed and brave.

Above all he IS available this summer. His current job only last till the end of the EUROs. So no compensation fee.

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Fair enough if you're of the belief that they have to have won a league title in a top 5 league. Although I would say that somebody like Simone Inzaghi, who may or may not be attainable, is perhaps an even better candidate by those standards. Hell be even to Inter to a CL Final last season and did a good job against them. Night and day to what ETH and others have served up for us against them.

The one area I have issue with what you have said is that you think he's similar to ETH in the football he adopts. One, so you think we want to see more of this if that's the case? And two, which kind of answers one, I actually don't think they're alike at all. Nagelsmann is far more aggressive and drills his teams better than what ETH has done here. Based on what I've seen of Nagelsmann.

pocco said:

Fair enough if you're of the belief that they have to have won a league title in a top 5 league. Although I would say that somebody like Simone Inzaghi, who may or may not be attainable, is perhaps an even better candidate by those standards. Hell be even to Inter to a CL Final last season and did a good job against them. Night and day to what ETH and others have served up for us against them.

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I love Inzaghi. The issue is though he is a strict 3-5-2 manager. He'd be a complete departure from our current football direction. We can't be doing that kinda thing again

pocco said:

one area I have issue with what you have said is that you think he's similar to ETH in the football he adopts. One, so you think we want to see more of this if that's the case? And two, which kind of answers one, I actually don't think they're alike at all. Nagelsmann is far more aggressive and drills his teams better than what ETH has done here. Based on what I've seen of Nagelsmann.

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That is where you go wrong. You are conflating executing something better with being different. Nagelsmann is the apex of what ETH is about as a manager in terms of front footed aggressive play and control.

Same way at City Guardiola is the apex of the style Mancini and Pellegrini were tasked to implement at City, in preparation for his arrival.

I truly find it strange how often people constantly pretend last season never happened and acting like the issues of this season are the "ONLY STORY" of ETH as a coach and how he prefers to play, which is so disingenous. This season honest tells you nothing about who ETH really is as a manager. For it's an our right anomaly in his last 4-5 years of practice. One doesn't have to like him as a coach to see that truth.

Quite amazing how many posters would still consider Tuchel...

Unai Emery if we can persuade him to leave Villa.

Nagelsmann is the only available manager with the right profile imo. It's not easy managing united, and he comes with the personality and the CV that warrant respect from the players. Potter would be a massive risk after his failure at Chelsea. Question marks will be around him from the get go. And I still for the life of me don't know what has De Zerbi ever achieved to be considered for the job.

JJ12 said:

Unai Emery if we can persuade him to leave Villa.

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Please no. It'll be like following up LvG with Mourinho all over again. Let him keep his brand of sufferball in Villa. We need to be a dominant side like City not scrappy underdogs all the time.

JJ12 said:

Unai Emery if we can persuade him to leave Villa.

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Christ no.

Nagelsmann is young enough to be their mate too, I bet he dabs on the gram blud

pocco said:

I don't mind the idea of Nagelsmann, but why only him? I don't get why posters are saying "nobody except Enrique or Zidane" or "only Nagelsmann". Based on what exactly? There's many managers that are as good or potentially better (Zidane is a grey area due to sample size and team managed).

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I know i find that an insane post considering the current manager.

To say only one person could replace Ten Hag is hilarious

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:

I love Inzaghi. The issue is though he is a strict 3-5-2 manager. He'd be a complete departure from our current football direction. We can't be doing that kinda thing again

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Yes we don't want anyone coming in with a style that works.

kaku06 said:

Why people are mentioning Nagelsmann? Isn’t he the Germany manager? Is he leaving after the Euros?

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Yes he is, he only took over the national team as kind of an interim solution during this season. He most likely wants to go manage a club again after the Euros and only has a contract for that tournament, not longer.

stefan92 said:

Yes he is, he only took over the national team as kind of an interim solution during this season. He most likely wants to go manage a club again after the Euros and only has a contract for that tournament, not longer.

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Didn’t know that. Thanks.

Chumpsbechumps said:

I suppose I just think, depending on how INEOs are gonna do things, it could be a very odd couple of years transition and having a big name manager , even an older one, may actually suit and we can bring in our proper replacement when the club has had time to properly set things up.

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Ancelotti could be great with Ashworth and co behind him. He signed an extension recently, though. Also seems to be winding down, with heavy links to the Brazil job.

I'd probably go with Nagelsmann or De Zerbi. Amorim, Inzaghi and Motta feel like greater greater risks, although that might be slightly harsh on Inzaghi.

Teja said:

He'd be a ballsy punt. Does he speak any English?

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No idea about that. With Ashworth as DOF, it would massively count against him if he does not.

Would not call it a punt in any way though. Unlike some of the names been mentioned in this thread, he has been managing for a while, and at the highest level too.

His record in Italy is very good. A few trophies, a Champions League Final last season, and on course to win the Serie A this season.

Plant0x84 said:

This is a fair and well reasoned post. I agree entirely. I think ten Hag is very capable of shutting people (malcontent fans) up next season if we sort the hierarchy around him and the playing squad in the summer.
It was only last season he was rightly being lauded, and there seems to be a wilful ignorance of all that has gone on this season. It has been far from normal. Results need that context before you can write off the manager.

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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:

I truly find it strange how often people constantly pretend last season never happened and acting like the issues of this season are the "ONLY STORY" of ETH as a coach and how he prefers to play, which is so disingenous. This season honest tells you nothing about who ETH really is as a manager. For it's an our right anomaly in his last 4-5 years of practice. One doesn't have to like him as a coach to see that truth.

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We were obviously better last season but I personally don't think our football was all that impressive or exciting. Spurs at home and Barca EL tie aside, I was largely left underwhelmed, even if the results were generally good. It's not to say we didn't deserve a lot of our wins but I think last seasons performances are being overinflated.

N.E. Body

Might not have the reputation we need, but it's time we look at him and gave him an opportunity.

Here’s the criteria;

1. Must be able to work with DOF
2. Must play front foot attacking football
3. Must have won a domestic league in the top 5 leagues.
4. Preferably knows how to bring young players through and works intensively with the academy.
5. Preferably would have won a CL/Europa League or at least got to last 4 of CL.
6. Has a 60-65% win rate
7. Is Flexible to adapt tactics per game and not stubborn.
8. Preferably has PL experience but not essential for a European Elite Manager.

That type of Criteria means the following are not options - Graham Potter, Roberto De Zerbie

Options - Hansi Flick, Zinedine Zidane, Thomas Tuchel, Julian Naigelsman, Roberto Mancini, Luis Enrique, Antonio Conte, Simeone Inzaghi.

They are the options, some are available and not working, some already manage huge clubs and some need convincing that United under Ineos are going to be serious contenders going forward?

They said on Sunday that was his 100th game in charge and he's got a better win ratio than SAF during his first 100 games. We've got a new owner, in charge of football, and a new director of football or something - so there are big organizational things to sort out. I don't think we will have a new manager for a while if he finish 6th or higher for the next two years, this season included.

Stig said:

They said on Sunday that was his 100th game in charge and he's got a better win ratio than SAF during his first 100 games. We've got a new owner, in charge of football, and a new director of football or something - so there are big organizational things to sort out. I don't think we will have a new manager for a while if he finish 6th or higher for the next two years, this season included.

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Even if we qualify for Champions league football for next season he is not starting next season in charge he is done for here we are just waiting for season to finish .

Whoever we get, assuming hand bag goes, had better deliver some new manager bounce almost immediately. Even that's not guaranteed these days

cus i cried a river over you
. lets march on to top four or five and its gonna be tough but we got this stop the cry me a river blyat

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:

I love Inzaghi. The issue is though he is a strict 3-5-2 manager. He'd be a complete departure from our current football direction. We can't be doing that kinda thing again


That is where you go wrong. You are conflating executing something better with being different. Nagelsmann is the apex of what ETH is about as a manager in terms of front footed aggressive play and control.

Same way at City Guardiola is the apex of the style Mancini and Pellegrini were tasked to implement at City, in preparation for his arrival.

I truly find it strange how often people constantly pretend last season never happened and acting like the issues of this season are the "ONLY STORY" of ETH as a coach and how he prefers to play, which is so disingenous. This season honest tells you nothing about who ETH really is as a manager. For it's an our right anomaly in his last 4-5 years of practice. One doesn't have to like him as a coach to see that truth.

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It doesn't matter who Ten Hag really is as a manager though, that's where you are going wrong. What matters is what he is implementing right now and it's nothing like what Nagelsmann would do. So your whole point is moot. And Nagelsmann has played a lot of games with 3 and 5 at the back. Would you be unhappy if he came in and did that here?

And I don't know what you find strange about "pretending last season never happened" - is anybody even doing that? I see it mentioned a lot in the context of how long we've looked poor. Last season ETH was even further away from the type of football you are taking about. He was far more pragmatic and there were many already questioning what type of football he was trying to implement. You're taking as though we were great to watch last season, I think you're confused. I remember it very well though. We were pretty poor to watch for the vast majority of it but we got results through a lean defence, a double pivot sat in front etc. Zero possession football, that was the thing everyone claimed we'd see one we signed a ball playing goalkeeper. He's (Onana) played practically every game this season and there's still no sign of it.

So what great foundations has he laid? What will he instill in this team between now and the end of the season that is so important to the future of this club?

Stig said:

They said on Sunday that was his 100th game in charge and he's got a better win ratio than SAF during his first 100 games. We've got a new owner, in charge of football, and a new director of football or something - so there are big organizational things to sort out. I don't think we will have a new manager for a while if he finish 6th or higher for the next two years, this season included.

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Most wins yet he's lost nearly half our games in all competitions this season. It's a pointless stat. Many of us knew results would catch up with the way we were actually playing. If you're right and 6th place is enough then we might as well give up now, because INEOS are worse than the Glazers in that case. I reckon you're wrong though, thankfully.

pocco said:

Most wins yet he's lost nearly half our games in all competitions this season. It's a pointless stat. Many of us knew results would catch up with the way we were actually playing. If you're right and 6th place is enough then we might as well give up now, because INEOS are worse than the Glazers in that case. I reckon you're wrong though, thankfully.

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Do you think the players he has can play a more progressive, attacking style of football at a higher level than what he’s doing? Do you think these players are a set of players capable challenging for titles? If so, what about the last 5 seasons or so suggests that? And how do you think he could be using these players to achieve consistently better results than he has?

Lots of frustration about the bad football, which I share. But I’ve never been clear about how to use the players at his disposal better. With our injuries, Casemiro and Eriksen having fallen off a level physically this season, and Rashford not repeating his freakishly good form from last year, I kind of struggle to see how this year was ever going to be an improvement on last year.

I was talking about this in the other thread but, to me, his biggest managerial failings always come back to his inconsistent transfer outcomes. I’d argue that shouldn’t have ever been his responsibility, and that the club is now putting the structures in place to resolve that issue.

Woziak said:

Here’s the criteria;

1. Must be able to work with DOF
2. Must play front foot attacking football
3. Must have won a domestic league in the top 5 leagues.
4. Preferably knows how to bring young players through and works intensively with the academy.
5. Preferably would have won a CL/Europa League or at least got to last 4 of CL.
6. Has a 60-65% win rate
7. Is Flexible to adapt tactics per game and not stubborn.
8. Preferably has PL experience but not essential for a European Elite Manager.

That type of Criteria means the following are not options - Graham Potter, Roberto De Zerbie

Options - Hansi Flick, Zinedine Zidane, Thomas Tuchel, Julian Naigelsman, Roberto Mancini, Luis Enrique, Antonio Conte, Simeone Inzaghi.

They are the options, some are available and not working, some already manage huge clubs and some need convincing that United under Ineos are going to be serious contenders going forward?

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Zidane will never come here unless we have a stacked out of this world squad....doubt Tuchel would work out here....Conte/Simeone will play the opposite of what every supporter wants to play. Does Flick have enough experience?

It not Naigs, then take one of Flick, Enrique or Inzaghi.

DJ_21 said:

If we offered him the job he’d leave believe me. Who wouldn’t leave any team to join us?

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This feels a bit delusional. United have become a bit of a poisoned chalice and Inzhagi has never managed outside of Italy. He has a genuine chance of challenging for the league every year, can he say the sane here? I think he'd be mad to join us.

After being unsure for a while now, I think my preferred choice would be Nagelsmann. The only doubt in that regard is that he would be starting after the euros so not much of a pre season to get the players up to speed on what he wants, but then if we are thinking of a project that we commit to over the course of a few seasons then that should not be too much of a concern. If I recall correctly, after LVG started after the world cup, it didn't take super long for the team to start playing LVGball. I would also be quite happy with Enrique or De Zerbi. I think Potter is better than what he showed at Chelsea, so while he would not be my first choice, I would not be upset if we got him. Flick is another interesting option.

Mr Smith said:

This feels a bit delusional. United have become a bit of a poisoned chalice and Inzhagi has never managed outside of Italy. He has a genuine chance of challenging for the league every year, can he say the sane here? I think he'd be mad to join us.

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ETH had the chance to challenge for the league every year with Ajax… inzaghi may want a new challenge. It gets boring sometimes when you’re the best in your country. The opportunity to do what no other manager has done since Fergie and make us challenge consistently is a motivation for anyone. We’re much bigger than Inter. Managers and players would jump at the chance to come here… it’s a more competitive league and I’m sure he’d relish coming up against pep again.

Woziak said:

Here’s the criteria;

1. Must be able to work with DOF
2. Must play front foot attacking football
3. Must have won a domestic league in the top 5 leagues.
4. Preferably knows how to bring young players through and works intensively with the academy.
5. Preferably would have won a CL/Europa League or at least got to last 4 of CL.
6. Has a 60-65% win rate
7. Is Flexible to adapt tactics per game and not stubborn.
8. Preferably has PL experience but not essential for a European Elite Manager.

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So if we had a manager that:

1. Has done so previously (United haven’t really had that structure)
2. Has done so previously (Would also argue it’s what he’s building towards here)
3. Has not done so (Netherlands classed as 6th behind France)
4. Has done so previously and currently (See Ajax and United youth)
5. Semi Final with Ajax
6. 61%
7. Does this currently and previously
8. Now has about 18months of PL experience. With a previous 3rd place finish and a trophy whilst in England.

pocco said:

It doesn't matter who Ten Hag really is as a manager though, that's where you are going wrong. What matters is what he is implementing right now and it's nothing like what Nagelsmann would do. So your whole point is moot.

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Football simply doesn't work that way. Otherwise going by THAT argument what Nagelsmann haa produced since taking over the mess he is trying to clean up with Germany is how he should be judged over his entire body of work as a manager. A period Germany have neither looked as well drilled, coached to press nor compactvl enough defensively. Frankly, It's who who really doesn't have a leg to stand with that tangent

pocco said:

And Nagelsmann has played a lot of games with 3 and 5 at the back. Would you be unhappy if he came in and did that here?

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I already stated in my first post that unlike most modern managers Nagelsmann football isn't wedded to one singular formation. So I don't understand such a question as a reply to anything I've said earlier.

pocco said:

And I don't know what you find strange about "pretending last season never happened" - is anybody even doing that? I see it mentioned a lot in the context of how long we've looked poor. Last season ETH was even further away from the type of football you are taking about. He was far more pragmatic and there were many already questioning what type of football he was trying to implement.
You're taking as though we were great to watch last season, I think you're confused. I remember it very well though. We were pretty poor to watch for the vast majority of it but we got results through a lean defence, a double pivot sat in front etc. Zero possession football, that was the thing everyone claimed we'd see one we signed a ball playing goalkeeper. He's (Onana) played practically every game this season and there's still no sign of it.

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THAT right there is the pretending I'm talking about:
1. We DID play possesion football the majority of last season. We were out possesesed strictly 6 times by an epl opponent of which 4 of those were from matches vs Liverpool, Arsenal, City and Newcastle. The ONLY reason that couldn't leapt to above 54% was because we had a keeper who literally couldn't use his feet in goal making consistent possession out the back. Impossible

2. The idea 'our football was poor' is straight up beans. I'd agree it wasn't tremendously exciting for Everyone's taste. But Poor? Straight up beans!

Last season not only were United 3rd in big chances created. United sat with Brighton on top of the key passes per 90 minutes metric over the entire season above everyone. Even in terms of PPDA United were 3rd overall. No team can have those statistics whilst being poor in the football.

At the very least you have to be solid defensively, possess control in games thanks to your defence and midfield structure and agressive and incisive enough in attack to generate those chances.

The issue is not only do people insist on conflating how we played last season with his ETH Ajax, to buttress their claim "we didn't play possesion football/were poor" rather than against United before. They simply pretend the superior defending, control, team structure generation of chances last season as compared to this or before last season NEVER happened. Worst of all they make the disingenous argument "our possesion hasn't improved with Onana at the back". As if our playing out the back hasn't been more consistently used and improved upon this season with Onana in goal as compared to De gea.

Even our posesssion has consistently failed to establish control strictly thanks first to a raft of injury to key components to any hopes of us playing it competently plus the change in team build and defensive shape from last season, because the coach has publically admitted he is trying to turn this side into the best transition, not best possesion side in the league. Yet his detractors insist on acting like his Ajax team is the template he has been working with and unsuccessfully trying to implement this season.

lsd said:

Yes we don't want anyone coming in with a style that works.

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You have clearly learnt nothing from the 360 degree changes in football direction from Moyes till Mourinho & Solsjaer and how it has panned out long term

saivet said:

We were obviously better last season but I personally don't think our football was all that impressive or exciting. Spurs at home and Barca EL tie aside, I was largely left underwhelmed, even if the results were generally good. It's not to say we didn't deserve a lot of our wins but I think last seasons performances are being overinflated.

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Honestly, it's the opposite! Because of the base poverty of this season in terms of performance, last seasons performances have been significantly down graded in many a mind as 'ordinary'. That is why the Barca tie and the Spurs games are being looked at as extreme outliers. Thats why Ive seen some with a straight face attempt to brazenly argue Moyes is a supposedly superior manager......

Plant0x84 said:

He won’t.

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Very unlikely now considering it's March alright.

I think we'd be crazy to get rid of ETH given the lack of clear options out there. It would cost an absolute fortune that we don't have, would totally ignore how well ETH did last season and for me would be idiotic given how this seaon has actually gone.

Basically, if ETH can field 10 or so of his actually good footballers, we look good and get good results. If he has to make 3 or more changes and bring in players that should be nowhere near this squad (Lindelof, Maguire, Evans, McTominay, Erikssen, Forson etc) then we look crap. We currently are starting every match being able to field only 9 players in their right positions, because he literally doesn't have a LB or a CF in the squad. That's not his fault. It's the disaster of Ed/Murtough.

Every match is a compromise. We're relying on 3 players that are hugely inexperienced children (Mainoo/Hojland/Garnacho) because the squad is so broken. And they've been good and clearly buy into what he's doing.

Jonny Evans came here in the summer to get some fitness, and has played 20 odd matches for us. That's how bad this squad is. Two of ETH's 'energetic, future-planning signings' have essentially not played this season (Malacia/Mount).

Everyone on here agrees that a back 4 featuring Lindelof and Maguire is an absolute train-wreck, and should have been scrapped in Ole's time. Yet ETH is forced to play them, when they're years older and slower, and so no he can't play good footballw ith that. No one can.

Get in a DoF, get in 5/6 signings, get 3 or 4 injured players back and then I think you can judge ETH, because he'll actually have footballers playing in their positions, at a good age.

Plant0x84 said:

He’s out on the basis of this jacket alone.

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Strong looks. Barry Venison vibes!

But bald is best

CasaStreets said:

Do you think the players he has can play a more progressive, attacking style of football at a higher level than what he’s doing? Do you think these players are a set of players capable challenging for titles? If so, what about the last 5 seasons or so suggests that? And how do you think he could be using these players to achieve consistently better results than he has?

Lots of frustration about the bad football, which I share. But I’ve never been clear about how to use the players at his disposal better. With our injuries, Casemiro and Eriksen having fallen off a level physically this season, and Rashford not repeating his freakishly good form from last year, I kind of struggle to see how this year was ever going to be an improvement on last year.

I was talking about this in the other thread but, to me, his biggest managerial failings always come back to his inconsistent transfer outcomes. I’d argue that shouldn’t have ever been his responsibility, and that the club is now putting the structures in place to resolve that issue.

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Yes I do think we could play a more progressive and attacking style of football. You can't convince me that this team is only capable of scoring about as much as Brentford and Fulham. Honestly, if you believe that is as good as it gets then you're a lost cause.

The first thing I would have done different is consistently play players in a position in which they're doing well and scoring from. As soon as anybody finds form he moves them out of position. And Bruno would be in that advanced midfield role (or deeper with freedom to advance) only, not RW or anything else. Look at the amount of goals, assists and chances Bruno creates at his best, he is the brains of this team right now, whether we like it or not.

Another thing I would do differently is change the shape of our midfield to a double pivot, or a three in bigger games, to regain more control. I think we stifle ourselves and give up possession and control by having so many players push forward. We end up with a line of 5 stood up top and struggle to build up our keep possession. To be honest there's a lot I'd do differently or try, which other more progeessive teams do, but I don't have the time to write it all out here. But these are the basics. I find Ten Hag incredibly rigid in his thinking and it makes him predictable.