Amadou Onana

Not sold on him. Not cultured enough.

I think he'll cost too much to warrant signing. Everton paid 30m for him, I'm not convinced they won't ask for a fortune for him.

Adnan said:

Branthwaite doesn't look that great on the ball and I'm not sure if he'll ever be elite in that regard. But he is a big physical player who is quick enough to defend higher up the pitch and aerially he will please a few people but his passing isn't very good at all from what I've seen. Maybe he can improve in that regard and we can point to Gabriel at Arsenal who has become a first team player at Arsenal without being exceptional on the ball. James Tarkowski was better on the ball in the game and his short and long game was pretty consistent throughout the game where his pass completion was in the mid 90s.

I also keep seeing posts about Onana not being good in the game but without the posts providing context as to why he isn't good enough or why he wasn't good in the game. Maybe you guys are correct but I never see reasons to back up your posts.



He was utilised as the DM in a team where the manager doesn't look to play through the thirds but the strategy is a familiar one where the aim is to get the ball forward with minimal amount passes going forward through the fullbacks. Onana in such a strategy is utilised to play more vertical as the first receiver and control the defensive transition out of possession in a higher defensive line where the press and counter press are used by Dyche as a defense mechanism higher up the pitch. Onana played his position superbly well where he was disciplined and maintained a technical security in possession with the stats below backing up what I saw in the game. And the channels will get vacated in such a strategy because the tactics push the fullbacks high and the midfield 8s high up the pitch and then vacating the central midfield is a requirement for a player utilised as the DM to cover the channels when your first lines of the press are breached and hence you are open to the transition. It seems people were expecting to see him play like a box to box #8 rather than the more disciplined role he played in the game.

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And I wouldn't want us to sign him as a #6, but rather someone who can cover the #6 role but use him as a #8. I'd like to see us sign someone like Varela to play as the deepest midfielder in possession but having the option of Onana provides tactical flexibility and duel winning potential that we just don't have in the team.

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I wasn't really focusing on him entirely but he seemed to get dragged around quite a bit and we continually found free men in the middle. I suspect it was more a case of others not doing their jobs or poor tactics from Dyche, but they were very easy to play through in the second half. He in particular was bypassed with ease a few times and it certainly didn't feel like he was a big presence on the game.

Like I said though I wasn't really focusing much on him or Everton per se, more on what we were doing and what was working for us.

Adnan said:

Branthwaite doesn't look that great on the ball and I'm not sure if he'll ever be elite in that regard. But he is a big physical player who is quick enough to defend higher up the pitch and aerially he will please a few people but his passing isn't very good at all from what I've seen. Maybe he can improve in that regard and we can point to Gabriel at Arsenal who has become a first team player at Arsenal without being exceptional on the ball. James Tarkowski was better on the ball in the game and his short and long game was pretty consistent throughout the game where his pass completion was in the mid 90s.

I also keep seeing posts about Onana not being good in the game but without the posts providing context as to why he isn't good enough or why he wasn't good in the game. Maybe you guys are correct but I never see reasons to back up your posts.



He was utilised as the DM in a team where the manager doesn't look to play through the thirds but the strategy is a familiar one where the aim is to get the ball forward with minimal amount passes going forward through the fullbacks. Onana in such a strategy is utilised to play more vertical as the first receiver and control the defensive transition out of possession in a higher defensive line where the press and counter press are used by Dyche as a defense mechanism higher up the pitch. Onana played his position superbly well where he was disciplined and maintained a technical security in possession with the stats below backing up what I saw in the game. And the channels will get vacated in such a strategy because the tactics push the fullbacks high and the midfield 8s high up the pitch and then vacating the central midfield is a requirement for a player utilised as the DM to cover the channels when your first lines of the press are breached and hence you are open to the transition. It seems people were expecting to see him play like a box to box #8 rather than the more disciplined role he played in the game.

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And I wouldn't want us to sign him as a #6, but rather someone who can cover the #6 role but use him as a #8. I'd like to see us sign someone like Varela to play as the deepest midfielder in possession but having the option of Onana provides tactical flexibility and duel winning potential that we just don't have in the team.

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Think you are being a tad harsh here Adnan. He played plenty of passes yesterday straight into the strikers feet. Made a couple of good bursting runs as well. He definitely didn’t show the range of Tarkowski who played a couple of fine cross field passes, but I think it’s far more important being able to play that pass between the lines into the 10/striker. I certainly think in the game yesterday he stood out as one of the better players in possession for them. I’d be very keen to sign him, but as with every signing the cost is key.

Technically not up to it, would end up with us having the same issues in midfield. I don't see it with him and Branthwaite, both aren't good enough Technically.

pocco said:

I wasn't really focusing on him entirely but he seemed to get dragged around quite a bit and we continually found free men in the middle. I suspect it was more a case of others not doing their jobs or poor tactics from Dyche, but they were very easy to play through in the second half. He in particular was bypassed with ease a few times and it certainly didn't feel like he was a big presence on the game.

Like I said though I wasn't really focusing much on him or Everton per se, more on what we were doing and what was working for us.

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Dyche implements a similar system to what Rangnick implemented at the clubs he coached. And when you place heavy emphasis on progressing the ball vertically with the aim of getting the ball forward with a minimal amount of passes and having a high volume of players in the opponent's half, then spaces will have to be controlled by your CBs and Onana who was playing as a the deepest midfielder. So you're going to get pulled from side to side as a DM because the strategy involves pushing a high volume of players higher up the pitch in a higher defensive line. So when you play like that, then you need your CBs and deepest midfielder to control the defensive transitions without fullback support.

It doesn't have to be Onana and there's other options we can target but I don't think we can ignore the lack of pace and power in our team if we want to play with risk by committing a high number of players forward. The EPL is brutal when it comes to defending transitions and I'm not sure the solution is to throttle the opponent with high technical quality possession play whilst ignoring how one will defend the spaces when you're caught up field. Teams in the EPL are high in quality, and there's a lot of very intelligent football savvy people working at these clubs who will get the recruitment right and develop teams to control the game in and out of possession.

TrustInJanuzaj said:

Think you are being a tad harsh here Adnan. He played plenty of passes yesterday straight into the strikers feet. Made a couple of good bursting runs as well. He definitely didn’t show the range of Tarkowski who played a couple of fine cross field passes, but I think it’s far more important being able to play that pass between the lines into the 10/striker. I certainly think in the game yesterday he stood out as one of the better players in possession for them. I’d be very keen to sign him, but as with every signing the cost is key.

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I'm probably being harsh mate.

I do remember that one pass he played down the channel that was weighed to perfection.

Ekeke said:

Thought it was a bombed audition for a big money move. He wasnt terrible but didnt look like a player we needed.

As for Everton's best player McNeil was miles better at causing problems and creating although he couldnt get his shooting right. Not sure Onana was any better than Garner today. Both were decent

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Agreed he was really average in my opinion. I’ve watched him a few times and thought he was talented but missing the level of quality to be at a club like ours. Then I read here and see certain posters building him up and I’m convinced it’s mainly hype.

We’ve come up against many midfielders in the league this season that have impressed against us more than Onana did yesterday.

We could do better for the price Everton would want.

Wasn't impressed. He's a slightly better version of Mctominay and I feel won't really improve us.

Adnan said:

This is a good assessment and one that I feel reflects the ability of Amadou Onana playing in a Everton team that doesn't really build play play from the back but Onana surprisingly seems to switch from a #8 to a #6 with ease. And it seems he completely changes his mindset depending on the role he's being asked to play.

Onana was utilised as the first receiver in possession today as the main #6/DM and was comfortably the best midfielder on the pitch imo. Casemiro was making basic passing errors that I can't quite fathom why he's unable to consistently make regulation passes. He's failing at the absolute basics football and as much stick as Amrabat gets, I honestly would play Amrabat ahead of everytime.

Amadou Onana on the other hand was technically very good as the first receiver in midfield and maintained a pass success rate of around 90% and wasnt dribbled past at all in the game considering Everton were playing in a higher defensive line. And it wasn't as if Onana's passes were all basic passes either, but some of those passes were penetrative passes and press/line breaking passes. I think having a player like Onana who can be utilised as both a #6 and #8 is something that provides a lot of solutions. I thought he was very good but was let down by Everton's forwards. The way Casemiro played today is why we concede alot of shots.

I think if we feel the injuries aren't something that will be a concern with Onana, then I think signing him is a no brainer. Then that should open up the possibility of potentially bringing in players like Alan Varela and also possibly Joao Neves.

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Given that Onana can play 6 and 8 at a really high level, shouldn't we get a similar profile as a DM as his cover. From that perspective, I would rather get Lucas Gourna Douth as cover in the squad than Varela. He's reasonably tall, athletic, good across the ground and wouldn't cost too much as coming from Salzburg. He's predominantly a 6 but could do a job as an 8 if need be. He reminds me of Tchouameni in profile

Adnan said:

Branthwaite doesn't look that great on the ball and I'm not sure if he'll ever be elite in that regard. But he is a big physical player who is quick enough to defend higher up the pitch and aerially he will please a few people but his passing isn't very good at all from what I've seen. Maybe he can improve in that regard and we can point to Gabriel at Arsenal who has become a first team player at Arsenal without being exceptional on the ball. James Tarkowski was better on the ball in the game and his short and long game was pretty consistent throughout the game where his pass completion was in the mid 90s.

I also keep seeing posts about Onana not being good in the game but without the posts providing context as to why he isn't good enough or why he wasn't good in the game. Maybe you guys are correct but I never see reasons to back up your posts.



He was utilised as the DM in a team where the manager doesn't look to play through the thirds but the strategy is a familiar one where the aim is to get the ball forward with minimal amount passes going forward through the fullbacks. Onana in such a strategy is utilised to play more vertical as the first receiver and control the defensive transition out of possession in a higher defensive line where the press and counter press are used by Dyche as a defense mechanism higher up the pitch. Onana played his position superbly well where he was disciplined and maintained a technical security in possession with the stats below backing up what I saw in the game. And the channels will get vacated in such a strategy because the tactics push the fullbacks high and the midfield 8s high up the pitch and then vacating the central midfield is a requirement for a player utilised as the DM to cover the channels when your first lines of the press are breached and hence you are open to the transition. It seems people were expecting to see him play like a box to box #8 rather than the more disciplined role he played in the game.

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And I wouldn't want us to sign him as a #6, but rather someone who can cover the #6 role but use him as a #8. I'd like to see us sign someone like Varela to play as the deepest midfielder in possession but having the option of Onana provides tactical flexibility and duel winning potential that we just don't have in the team.

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If Onana is bought to play as an 8, and you would rather have Varela as the deepest midfielder, what would you do with Mainoo? Surely the long term strategy should be to have Onana as the 6, whilst having Mainoo as the first receiver?

Kingslayer18 said:

Given that Onana can play 6 and 8 at a really high level, shouldn't we get a similar profile as a DM as his cover. From that perspective, I would rather get Lucas Gourna Douth as cover in the squad than Varela. He's reasonably tall, athletic, good across the ground and wouldn't cost too much as coming from Salzburg. He's predominantly a 6 but could do a job as an 8 if need be. He reminds me of Tchouameni in profile

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Mandela Keita is another I’ve seen us linked with of late and he also looks to have the sort of profile we would want at what I imagine is an attractive price point.

This would be another clear waste of money. Avoid.

NoPace said:

I thought Brathwaite looked quite raw. The height and left foot are great, and we could use a backup for Lisandro and it would give him time to mature, but not sure we can afford the giant fee he'd cost for that sort of thing. That's a 30M type of buy, not a 50M spend when you've got the other holes we do.

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They are both a long way from the finished article and I can’t see Everton selling either of them for less than 70m, especially when you look at the fees they got for Gordon and Richarlison.

I think we probably need to avoid both for that reason because we need a lot of players but personally I think Branthwaite will end up a better player so if had to pick one that’s who I’d go for.

The Irish Connection said:

We could do better for the price Everton would want.

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Yeah I tend to agree. Plus if United are going to spend millions on getting everyone out of their gardens to do some work! then I would be a bit disappointed if all they came up with was spending 60+ million on Onana.

This is again another trap alongside Branthwaite, we should avoid both, not only they would cost us plenty of money, they are not technically to the standard we require to be able to compete against top teams, we need another Rodri basically (strong, powerful and technically brilliant), which Onana is nowhere near.

Fahad Jawaid said:

This is again another trap alongside Branthwaite, we should avoid both, not only they would cost us plenty of money, they are not technically to the standard we require to be able to compete against top teams, we need another Rodri basically (strong, powerful and technically brilliant), which Onana is nowhere near.

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Exactly. These are just not the kinds of players that are going to make the difference.

Kingslayer18 said:

Given that Onana can play 6 and 8 at a really high level, shouldn't we get a similar profile as a DM as his cover. From that perspective, I would rather get Lucas Gourna Douth as cover in the squad than Varela. He's reasonably tall, athletic, good across the ground and wouldn't cost too much as coming from Salzburg. He's predominantly a 6 but could do a job as an 8 if need be. He reminds me of Tchouameni in profile

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Lucas Gourna-Douath is another interesting young player who I mentioned as someone that maybe we should be interested in signing when he was a teenager playing for Saint-Étienne in France. Very explosive player with the pace, power and carrying ability that definitely suits a team that wants play with a higher intensity on the front foot, play with risk and control the spaces out of possession.

But I think it's important to understand the term 'attacking football' in the game today and how it differs with different schools of thought (coaches) who utilise the deeper midfielder as either a #6 or a DM. The #6 is a player that is utilised by a coach that places heavy emphasis on building the play through the thirds with the aim of exerting, zonal and positional control to pin the opponent in their own half with the press and counter press as the fail-safe defense mechanism upon losing the ball with a high volume of players committed into the opponent's half. The DM is a player who coaches like Dyche and Rangnick utilise with the aim of getting the ball forward quickly with a minimal amount of passes to then squeeze the pitch in a higher defensive line with the press and counter press a defensive mechanism from the front.

Lucas Gourna-Douath's pace and power is hence utilised as a DM to control the large spaces upon the opponent breaking the first lines of the high press and looking to exploit that large space that's opened up due to their highline tactics. And hence the two CBs and at least one midfielder is assigned the task to manage the game out of possession against the opponent's fast transitions. And in the EPL those transitions are brutal with teams packing their squads with pace, power and athleticism. So someone like Lucas Gourna-Douath right now is a DM and someone like Alan Varela is more of a #6 in the build up phase and would be wasted in a team managed by Rangnick or Dyche who prefer a different profile at the base of midfield and their CBs are far more active as the players who progress the play.

Kingslayer18 said:

If Onana is bought to play as an 8, and you would rather have Varela as the deepest midfielder, what would you do with Mainoo? Surely the long term strategy should be to have Onana as the 6, whilst having Mainoo as the first receiver?

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I think what I look at with those three players (Varela, Onana, Mainoo) is that they provide a midfield composition that is technical, as well as having the physical and athletic abilities that provide a balance in the EPL that is required right now. All three of those players can be utilised as the #6 in possession and both Mainoo and Onana can also be utilised as #8s. So if you have a coach who wants to build play from the back whether that's ten Hag or Graham Potter, you have three players who you can coach to rotate positions at a high level and all three players are press resistant and have the ability to evade pressure and carry the ball at a good level with further development to come. Onana for a 6'5 midfielder is remarkably good at making quick directional shifts with the ball and his ability to retain possession under pressure is seen by the eye and backed up by data.

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@mav_9me

I think if we want to take a big step towards what Arsenal have done or even what Liverpool or Leverkusen have done where they're very good going forward and play with a higher tempo and intensity. Then look at their CBs and the attributes those players have like pace, power and athleticism along with a good technical level on the ball, which allows them to build play effectively and control the large spaces in transitions. which in-turn allows their wing backs and midfielders that little bit more freedom to camp in the opponent's half. Whether it's Yoro, Danso, Diomande, Kossounou, Todibo or even Guehi for the RCB position or Branthwaite, Lukeba, Lucumi etc for the LCB position, we need to reinforce with two heavy lifters who fit the criteria I've described above imo. It's why I believe the potential to improve considerably is there for the club in the summer.

RuudTom83 said:

Yeah I tend to agree. Plus if United are going to spend millions on getting everyone out of their gardens to do some work! then I would be a bit disappointed if all they came up with was spending 60+ million on Onana.

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Might as well stretch to the 100m for Joao Neves.
But seriously, we need to be very careful with spending big on players from now on.

Fahad Jawaid said:

This is again another trap alongside Branthwaite, we should avoid both, not only they would cost us plenty of money, they are not technically to the standard we require to be able to compete against top teams, we need another Rodri basically (strong, powerful and technically brilliant), which Onana is nowhere near.

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I basically agree, but is there another Rodri out there? Feels like the most expensive options on the market (players not at top, top clubs yet) all have an obvious flaw that keeps them from being a Rodri quality buy:

-Joao Neves, small, so probably a #8 in the Prem
-Palhinha, 28 and if he loses a step he'll be slow
-Onana, short passing is decent, but he's not technically as good as Rodri
-Zubimendi, I haven't seen a ton but he doesn't look that powerful (though he fills in at CB so maybe I'm underrating him in this regard) or athletic. Merino looks stronger and quicker to me for instance when I see them.

Considering we're still fairly far away from being genuinely good, might be best to just skip this "generation" and buy a couple of younger midfielders and develop them along with Mainoo so we actually have 3 quality options for 2 deeper spots, and presumably Bruno and hope Mount comes good as #10s.

I could see Onana going to Villa or Newcastle, pretty safe buy in either manager's system and both teams will drop 60M on a player now.

NoPace said:

I basically agree, but is there another Rodri out there? Feels like the most expensive options on the market (players not at top, top clubs yet) all have an obvious flaw that keeps them from being a Rodri quality buy:

-Joao Neves, small, so probably a #8 in the Prem
-Palhinha, 28 and if he loses a step he'll be slow
-Onana, short passing is decent, but he's not technically as good as Rodri
-Zubimendi, I haven't seen a ton but he doesn't look that powerful (though he fills in at CB so maybe I'm underrating him in this regard) or athletic. Merino looks stronger and quicker to me for instance when I see them.

Considering we're still fairly far away from being genuinely good, might be best to just skip this "generation" and buy a couple of younger midfielders and develop them along with Mainoo so we actually have 3 quality options for 2 deeper spots, and presumably Bruno and hope Mount comes good as #10s.

I could see Onana going to Villa or Newcastle, pretty safe buy in either manager's system and both teams will drop 60M on a player now.

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Merino can do a Rodri-type role, has already played in the PL, and has a year left on his deal.

Rozay said:

Merino can do a Rodri-type role, has already played in the PL, and has a year left on his deal.

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I like him, but not sure he's a #6 and his passing completion is genuinely bad. I think he'd be more of a Sabitzer but stronger type of guy here, and if he's our only midfield signing, we end up looking like this:

Merino-Mainoo-Bruno

or

-------Bruno---------
Merino-Mainoo

and I believe I read he didn't like playing in England. Also turning 28 soon. I like him as one of 2 midfield signings with Casemiro in Saudi, but I don't think he's suddenly gonan turn into Rodri.

This would be a tidy summer:

Midfield out:
Casemiro (Saudi, 30M)
Eriksen (Galatasary or wherever, 3M)
McTominay (10th-14th placed Prem side, 25M)

Midfield in:
Merino or another #8 (40M)
Expensive young DM (60M)
Cheap young DM (10M)

#10 - Bruno, Mount
#8 - Merino, Mainoo
#6 - DM, DM2

for about 50M in fees, and then the rest on a backup striker, an RCB and some sort of left-footed defender.

Rozay said:

Mandela Keita is another I’ve seen us linked with of late and he also looks to have the sort of profile we would want at what I imagine is an attractive price point.

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Onana is miles ahead of him, and he wouldn't come cheap either. Well, about 30m would do it I guess. But as said, Onana is honestly a much much better player at this moment, and he's just 1 year older.

NoPace said:

I basically agree, but is there another Rodri out there? Feels like the most expensive options on the market (players not at top, top clubs yet) all have an obvious flaw that keeps them from being a Rodri quality buy:

-Joao Neves, small, so probably a #8 in the Prem
-Palhinha, 28 and if he loses a step he'll be slow
-Onana, short passing is decent, but he's not technically as good as Rodri
-Zubimendi, I haven't seen a ton but he doesn't look that powerful (though he fills in at CB so maybe I'm underrating him in this regard) or athletic. Merino looks stronger and quicker to me for instance when I see them.

Considering we're still fairly far away from being genuinely good, might be best to just skip this "generation" and buy a couple of younger midfielders and develop them along with Mainoo so we actually have 3 quality options for 2 deeper spots, and presumably Bruno and hope Mount comes good as #10s.

I could see Onana going to Villa or Newcastle, pretty safe buy in either manager's system and both teams will drop 60M on a player now.

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I doubt most thought Rodri was going to be as good as he has been. Before City bought him you could probably point to negatives.

It's about foresight, spotting the talent. Then Pairing them with suitable players.

Loads of options out there IF the scouts/managers do their jobs properly.

NoPace said:

I like him, but not sure he's a #6 and his passing completion is genuinely bad. I think he'd be more of a Sabitzer but stronger type of guy here, and if he's our only midfield signing, we end up looking like this:

Merino-Mainoo-Bruno

or

-------Bruno---------
Merino-Mainoo

and I believe I read he didn't like playing in England. Also turning 28 soon. I like him as one of 2 midfield signings with Casemiro in Saudi, but I don't think he's suddenly gonan turn into Rodri.

This would be a tidy summer:

Midfield out:
Casemiro (Saudi, 30M)
Eriksen (Galatasary or wherever, 3M)
McTominay (10th-14th placed Prem side, 25M)

Midfield in:
Merino or another #8 (40M)
Expensive young DM (60M)
Cheap young DM (10M)

#10 - Bruno, Mount
#8 - Merino, Mainoo
#6 - DM, DM2

for about 50M in fees, and then the rest on a backup striker, an RCB and some sort of left-footed defender.

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How is cheap young DM developing these days?

Berbasbullet said:

How is cheap young DM developing these days?

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Personally speaking, I'm a sicko and wanted Lerma on a free last summer to save some money and because I think backup DMs who will sit on the bench and be better than throwing a #8 there are are tough to find (City and Liverpool don't even have them for that reason).

I think of it in relation to guys like Christian Norgaard. He was sitting on the Fiorentina bench behind some average players but he was young, lots of caps for Denmark U-21 and cost Fiorentina 3.5M and Brentford then 2.8M after he didn't get in the team at Fiorentina. So, find me a Norgaard somewhere for 5M and I'm happy enough with that outcome.

Marwood said:

I doubt most thought Rodri was going to be as good as he has been. Before City bought him you could probably point to negatives.

It's about foresight, spotting the talent. Then Pairing them with suitable players.

Loads of options out there IF the scouts/managers do their jobs properly.

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He was very good at Villareal and incredible at Atletico as I recall. Had Spain caps already.

Zubimendi seems like far and away the highest rated DM who might move to a bigger club. When I've seen him he's done okay, looks technically good enough (and is rated as such) but not the size and strength of a Rodri.

After that, we're more in the range of having to be actually clever rather than just not screwing up. We'll see what the new regime can muster.

We don't necessarily need to find the next Rodri (obviously would like that). A good manager can get the best out of decent/good players, you don't need a superstar on every position. I hate to bring up Liverpool but Mac Allister, Szoboszlai and specially Endo aren't exactly the best in the world, but Liverpool is competing for several trophies with that midfield. Endo is a 31 year old midfielder few had heard of, playing for Stuttgart last year.

It will be very interesting to see our strategy for the future.

NoPace said:

He was very good at Villareal and incredible at Atletico as I recall. Had Spain caps already.

Zubimendi seems like far and away the highest rated DM who might move to a bigger club. When I've seen him he's done okay, looks technically good enough (and is rated as such) but not the size and strength of a Rodri.

After that, we're more in the range of having to be actually clever rather than just not screwing up. We'll see what the new regime can muster.

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Did he have about 10 caps for Spain before moving to City? I doubt they were all starts either.

The season before City signed him he moved for about £20 million didn't he?

I'm far from an expert on European football but that's not a DM everyone wholeheartedly felt was going to be the best.

Even his first season at City was just ok to decent if I recall. Nothing amazing.

There have to be other players out there with similar potential, at a similar stage, to what Rodri had.

Rozay said:

Mandela Keita is another I’ve seen us linked with of late and he also looks to have the sort of profile we would want at what I imagine is an attractive price point.

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I agree. He has the right profile as an athletic DM, which we need in our squad. I wouldn't be against bringing him as a developmental prospect but think he's more raw than Gourna Douth and could do with a year longer at Antwerp.

Kingslayer18 said:

I agree. He has the right profile as an athletic DM, which we need in our squad. I wouldn't be against bringing him as a developmental prospect but think he's more raw than Gourna Douth and could do with a year longer at Antwerp.

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Indeed. Main point is that this profile of player can often be picked up without having to spend 80m odd. There are options for players who need to come in and contribute physically more than anything else. The likes of Neves and De Jong, these types at the required level are more rare.

Marwood said:

Did he have about 10 caps for Spain before moving to City? I doubt they were all starts either.

The season before City signed him he moved for about £20 million didn't he?

I'm far from an expert on European football but that's not a DM everyone wholeheartedly felt was going to be the best.

Even his first season at City was just ok to decent if I recall. Nothing amazing.

There have to be other players out there with similar potential, at a similar stage, to what Rodri had.

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Rodri was fantastic for Atletico whenever I saw them. Spain's midfield was still a bear, with Busquets, Thiago, Saul and Koke the only ones who made the 2018 squad, and right after the tournament Lucho started using him: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/10/13/luis-enrique-has-got-spain-believing/

It often takes players a year to get used to Pep, we've seen it countless times now.

I think the major question with Rodri was if he looked a little better than he was because Simeone and his system got such quality play out of Gabi (unheralded), Tiago (Steady player, great for Mourinho at Chelsea but not a star and flopped at Juve) and Partey (seen as a bit limited, suddenly became a very, very good midfielder).

I don't think there's a comparable player out there on the market right now at DM. A player like Rodri in 2018 before he had proven himself at Atletico should in theory exist, but as I said, I can't name a player of his size and technical quality out there.

I would say that if we'd bought Declan Rice in the summer of 2021 that would have been very similar.

Maybe the one exception I would have said is Khepren Thuram, who I've only seen play once and have no opinion on, but he's young, much bigger than a guy like Zubimendi and L'Equipe put him in their team of the year, though obviously it's a much weaker league and less pressure/competition than starring for Atletico in 2019. So while I can't say he's quality the same way Rodri was in 2019, he's got the profile at least. However, he seems to be struggling this year: https://onefootball.com/en/news/dante-urges-khephren-thuram-to-improve-nice-performances-39099702 Saha says we should sign him anyways, maybe he's right.

Do we track only technically limited players?

I really, but really don’t see it with him.

I’ve watched him play since the beginning of the season and the eye test tells me that he’s no different than half of midfielders playing in France Ligue 1 or Belgium.

He looks really average to me, although the stats say otherwise.

I don’t think this guy by himself is the be all and end all. He isn’t going to singlehandedly fix our ability to implement a consistent attacking playing style when our forwards are such a mixed bag. I can see why some aren’t thrilled about him at the prices quoted but I think we don’t actually need a technically brilliant player in every position.

Other lesser teams regularly physically dominate us. We need someone who can cover large spaces and make the opposition rush on the ball and make mistakes. We need someone who can thread a pass through at the right moment but it’s not his main function. Someone dominant in the air. Someone who wins their duels far more often than not. He won’t let the opposition settle on the ball and dictate tempo so easily.

We are desperately lacking in grit and guile. We only have Casemiro Rasmus and Martinez of starting quality who fit that mould. I think he’s also going to improve a lot if he’s well coached and given a specific job. A bit like Rice, I feel like he could majorly step up for half the price. We already know we can realistically get 7/10 from him in this league every week and he could still improve. Unspectacular but the kind of player every good squad needs a few of and the kind of player we are badly missing.

Robbie Boy said:

This guy ain't it.

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He ain't a baller. You've got to be a baller to be a real top midfielder.

Everyone seems to want to buy a Midfielder that can do everything and fix all our problem by themselves.

Firstly, lets build a team, form a tactics, how coach wants to play, how many of our existing players able to play that to a certain standard required. Then we have a fundamental understanding and we can go and buy a certain profile of players that meet what we need.

We dont need names rather the profile is much more important. We fans seems to be fixed on names rather than the profile these days. Football is a TEAM sport, we need every players to be part of the team and help each other out, bring the best of others, compliment others and do what you best at and lets other do what they best at. So we dont need to buy the best MF that going to do everything on their own rather what they best at and what they can compliment the rest of that.

We have Mainoo as the focal point for now, and if we dont sell Bruno and we nned to buy MF that strong, athletics, fast, cover vast areas and just tecnically sound if enough. That is the profile of players that we should target.

Marwood said:

Did he have about 10 caps for Spain before moving to City? I doubt they were all starts either.

The season before City signed him he moved for about £20 million didn't he?

I'm far from an expert on European football but that's not a DM everyone wholeheartedly felt was going to be the best.

Even his first season at City was just ok to decent if I recall. Nothing amazing.

There have to be other players out there with similar potential, at a similar stage, to what Rodri had.

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There was pretty much consensus here that Rodri was destined for the top before his move to City. Sadly they are a very well run club that identify the players quickly and obviously have the money to get such deals closed easily.

Personally I really don’t see why we need to spend big on one player. We need to slowly build a young team that can over three years be coached into playing a modern attacking style of football. Something like what Arsenal have done. That doesn’t need marquee signings as we aren’t winning anything soon. It needs a team of technical quality additions to be build around Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund and Martinez. I’d rather have a 30m young player who can keep the ball in tight spaces but is a work in progress than a complete 70m all action player who will score goals / provide muscle but crumble under the press and hurt the system