If someone accused them of playing so they don't lose their spot in the team I'm sure you'd find it so low to call their actions selfish
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 11
Ofcourse, that's low and nonsense. Players love to play for their national team and when given the chance they will play. It's not really that hard to understand.
Availability is not his main quality. Jeez man, take the blinkers off .
And scored, assisted and was running full pelt till the end. Dude is made of titanium. Can't forget him being in a boot one day and starting the game for us the next.
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He won’t play the second game against Slovenia so he will comeback earlier, Dalot will stay, meaning he plays Tuesday.
Reasonable decisions taken by Martinez regarding the Premier League players, Ramos and Leao, no reason to force the majority to play 2 consecutive friendlies.
Reasonable decisions taken by Martinez regarding the Premier League players, Ramos and Leao, no reason to force the majority to play 2 consecutive friendlies.
Last year Rashford was, closely followed by Casemiro and Martinez. The year before Ronaldo was. This season Bruno has been awful. So how exactly has he been our best player over the last few years? I mean he’s been shite this season, was shite two seasons ago and wasn’t great last season.
Not even close to being awful. He's had more good games than bad games this season.
Cheers! He's looks like a very interesting profile, where he would certainly be good enough for a squad place and as the no.9 in the PL but whether he can burden responsibility as a big transfer at a big club is a different prospect. Will be keeping tabs on him.
Wow, are you serious? If Bruno is what you call awful then I have to question your football knowledge, I can agree that it is not his best season when it comes to goals and assist but if you compare us as team with and without Bruno on the field you would see how important he is for us, both as a player but just his presence makes a different. And since he joined, we have not one player that is even close to his goals, assists, chances created and so on (not sure that there is any player in the league that has been involved in more goals then him or created more chances, not even KDB),.
I’ve just looked at this, here’s some stats from premiere league…
Bruno
Goals + assists (non pen) 69 / mins played 13169 - G/A 195 mins
Rashford
56 / 9042 - G/A 155 mins
Pogba
62 / 12334 - G/A 198 mins
KDB
70 / 7125 - G/A 130 mins
KDB is clearly the outstanding performer here, Rashford a clear second but he is a forward. Bruno narrowly betters Pogba for goals / assists per minute but Pogba played much deeper on the pitch and had a 10% higher pass completion, so was more economical.
In addition I’ve done this previously too. Bruno, massively to his credit, plays about 99% of games. From memory there’s about 18-20 games he hasn’t. But our win percentage in those games is very high, our goals for is good, goals against markedly better and there’s a couple of big wins and some good wins in there also.
Totally removed from reality, and again you’re daring to compare United Pogba to Bruno which is outrageous.
He’s been one of our top 5 players this season, had a better season than Martinez and Casemiro (not that it matters, just highlighting that you have no critical reasoning when it comes to Bruno), and has been a top 5 performer in the squad every season since the joined the club
Also, stop using cherry picked stats to try to create a narrative that Bruno isn’t productive, and then declaring he’s only productive because he has unprecedented freedom as a player. It’s weird
ok so I’ll pick this apart, once again.
Totally removed from reality, and again you’re daring to compare United Pogba to Bruno which is outrageous.
He’s been one of our top 5 players this season, had a better season than Martinez and Casemiro (not that it matters, just highlighting that you have no critical reasoning when it comes to Bruno), and has been a top 5 performer in the squad every season since the joined the club
Also, stop using cherry picked stats to try to create a narrative that Bruno isn’t productive, and then declaring he’s only productive because he has unprecedented freedom as a player. It’s weird
1. The poster I replied to stated that no United player had been comparable to Bruno for goals and assists in that time. I’m not sure what you mean by ‘daring’? It’s hardly comparing him to Dan James. The two are very comparable.
2. This season he’s been available. Barring that he’s been awful in the main. I’d have Garnacho, Hojlund, Mainoo, McT, Varane, Maguire, Evans with Onana overtaking also. It’s been a strange season for injuries. Also can you read? Because did you miss the point where I said Martinez and Casemiro were better LAST season? Martinez hasn’t played this season and Casemiro has been equally poor. Doesn’t change the fact that both were levels above last season and crucial to our CL qualification and trophy win.
3. I used goals and assists? How are these cherry picked stats? It’s hardly fair to include penalties when only one player can benefit from them at the same club. So penalties have been removed for ALL players. Also per minutes stats are to make things equal. Otherwise we could just state that Bruno has outperformed Hojlund for goals at United.
Why don’t you try coming back with a supported argument rather than just words that you want to be true, unsupported and aiming to, as always, undermine the poster rather than counter the argument.
I adore your opening, given I've unravelled your baseless arguments in this strange thread on numerous occasions... you go quiet, and then wait for a game where United don't play well so you can throw a new set of shit onto one individual.
1. How's it comparable that Bruno did in 3 seasons what Pogba did in 6? Are you implying that hypothetically, if Pogba had played 300 appearances, he'd have double the goal and assist stats? If so, OK... strange but OK.
For the record I liked Pogba, I thought that sometimes his game suffered as a result of the team strategy or the personnel around him, but all that aside unfortunately he was advised poorly off the field and ultimately his body failed him. And I'm sure you could identify that United didn't get the best out of Pogba, despite criticism, so I don't know why you can't see the same for Bruno. Having to play too much due to squad issues, having to play too many positions and roles, having to play with inferior players, having to play in a system that doesn't get the best out of him (this season) etc.
2. Don't mean to be a condescending dick but... can you read? I said Bruno had a better season than Casemiro and Martinez, so I was clearly referring to last season too. Martinez had a rocky start, played well for 3 months and his form dropped from December onwards (not helped by injuries). Likewise, Casemiro was exactly the same in that he had a noticeable drop-off in the second half of the season. Bruno, IMO, had a good season until around April when you could see that his decision making and general sharpness had dropped, no doubt due to playing more minutes of football than any other top player.
WOW you said that Garnacho, Hojlund, Mainoo, McTominay, Varane, Evans and Onana have had a better season than Bruno. Is that relative to the expectations you had for them at the start of the season, or relative to one another? If it's the latter, I won't engage in this, sorry.
3. You saw that he was the most productive player in the world, alongside Messi, for the period from joining United up until a couple of months ago... right? FYI - per minute stats don't make things "equal", they just re-frame a conversation based on hypotheses (i.e. If he'd played more, his statistics would increase linearly)
Finally,. I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to re: Hojlund but it does highlight the point that Bruno is scrutinised and held to higher standards than any of our current squad. In this thread you've compared his goal tally to Hojlund/KDB, assists to KDB, pass completion to Odegaard etc. He's not superhuman, he's not going to save United singlehandedly, nor should he be expected to. As a Pogba lover, you should be able to recognise that.
Literally this. He's constantly bumping this thread after a United loss but you don't hear a peep out him when Bruno puts in one of his excellent performances. If you had only read his comments over the past 2 years and no one else's then you'd have thought Bruno was one of the worst players in the PL to consistently get gametime. Even zaafi would occasionally be reasonable enough to concede when he thought Bruno had a good game, whereas Jeppers is that stubborn old man who you dread to be sat next to on public transport.
I guess its also more fair if we take account of their effects on the team outside of performances too. Sure Bruno moans a lot during the game but you can see his team mates actually like him and can rely on him on and off the pitch. He is always available, never said no to manager playing him and is the first man to chase the ball up front. His demeanor during interviews have always been professional, he didnt speak ill of any manager, his team mates, or the club. And during his most productive years under Ole he didnt entertain the idea of leaving United, even if a lot of clubs would have taken him at that point. Did you even hear any noise at all about him wanting to leave the sinking ship right before Ole got the sack? no, I didn't hear any.
Compare that to Pogba. Yeah he wasnt the only problem but during his time here was when we overpaid players a lot and there were a lot more negative news surrounding United. He had so much power and could talk shit about the club using his agent to get what he wanted including 'threatening' to leave. At some point Raiola also had a beef with Scholes which is unthinkable and made no sense. It set the tone of the dressing room where players thought they had more power than they should have. Have a problem with the manager? Dont worry we can get him sacked. Want more salary? Dont worry we can start making noises and force the clubs hand.
Hell, a player doesnt have to be as impactful as Bruno during his overall time at the club for me to prefer that player than Pogba. I dont always agree with Jose but Pogba was a toxic character and helped foster the culture of complacency, individuality, and greed. Pogba played for Pogba, not for ManUnited. To him and his camp United were the lucky one to be able to host Pogba. A complete opposite to Bruno, who always gives his all for the club. Taking the armband and lead properly. He might not be everyone's cup of tea when it comes into playing style at the moment because we are expecting the club to move away from Ole's style of football but at least he is not toxic. When he leaves the club one day we will remember the good, not the bad like Pogba.
To summarize you have to be crazy to still adore Pogba ahead of Bruno even after he left the club years ago on a sour note. Pogba disrespected United and the fans who kept paying to see the team play.
Compare that to Pogba. Yeah he wasnt the only problem but during his time here was when we overpaid players a lot and there were a lot more negative news surrounding United. He had so much power and could talk shit about the club using his agent to get what he wanted including 'threatening' to leave. At some point Raiola also had a beef with Scholes which is unthinkable and made no sense. It set the tone of the dressing room where players thought they had more power than they should have. Have a problem with the manager? Dont worry we can get him sacked. Want more salary? Dont worry we can start making noises and force the clubs hand.
Hell, a player doesnt have to be as impactful as Bruno during his overall time at the club for me to prefer that player than Pogba. I dont always agree with Jose but Pogba was a toxic character and helped foster the culture of complacency, individuality, and greed. Pogba played for Pogba, not for ManUnited. To him and his camp United were the lucky one to be able to host Pogba. A complete opposite to Bruno, who always gives his all for the club. Taking the armband and lead properly. He might not be everyone's cup of tea when it comes into playing style at the moment because we are expecting the club to move away from Ole's style of football but at least he is not toxic. When he leaves the club one day we will remember the good, not the bad like Pogba.
To summarize you have to be crazy to still adore Pogba ahead of Bruno even after he left the club years ago on a sour note. Pogba disrespected United and the fans who kept paying to see the team play.
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Can you look back at my posts and tell me which baseless arguments you’ve unravelled? I mean you’ve said words and claimed…but when I’ve backed up my posts with substance you’ve never replied.
1. Bruno doesn’t have double the goals and assists stats? Per minute they have very similar stats over a similar overall amount of minutes.
2. oh…I didn’t think for one minute that you were saying Bruno had a better season last season, than Martinez and Casemiro
Typical ‘Bruno fan’ thing to do though. Downplay everything about other players and maximise exaggerate about Bruno. But sure Bruno was superb all season till April while Casemiro and Martinez had a decent three month spell then fell off a cliff.Yes all those players have performed more admirably than Bruno. He’s been poor. But he’s been available. Mainoo has been outstanding. The others have done a solid job. Onana had a poor start but has started to produce outstanding performances. Something Bruno hasn’t done this season.
3. No. Can you show me the stats where Bruno was the most productive player in the world from Jan 21 until Jan 24.
The point with Hojlund is that if you simply go off goals scored without factoring in goals per minute then Bruno has outperformed Hojlund massively. 60 to 10 or something.
I’m aware he isn’t superhuman. I’m used to watching Robson, Keane, Ronaldo, Scholes etc. Outside of the first six months Bruno played I wouldn’t expect anything like. It’s been a LONG time since he was very good.
I don’t adore either player. Pogba was a good player for United, nothing more. I prefer him as a player and he was consistently better in terms of performance and his output is similar. Bruno has been a better servant to the club I totally agree. He’s always fit and always plays and has no ‘beef’ with the fans.
My take on Bruno comes from his performances which are poor week in week out generally and have been for the best part of three seasons. Running doesn’t really do it for me if you constantly play ridiculous high risk passes and press on your own. But his application and availability are traits that appeal to the masses.
As for some of your points, I don’t see ‘evidence’ of either player being liked/disliked by the players. Where does that compare and contrast come from? Are you saying players didn’t like Pogba? Other than Jose, who fell out with prime Ronaldo, Ramos, Casillas, prime Hazard etc etc which other manager has had any problems with Pogba?
Pogba playing for Pogba? Again pure hyperbole. He’s an ultra talented World Cup winner who cut short his break after winning the World Cup and played after a week long pre season against Leicester because we needed him. Giving a MOTM performance.
Did Pogba speak ill of a manager and teammates?
Bruno leading and captaining properly? I don’t remember Keane or Robson lying on the ground moaning while the opposition attacked because they didn’t get a free kick once. Nevermind on the regular. I’ve never seen a more self centred and petulant performance than Bruno in the 7-0 at Anfield. He demonstratably give up chasing a player who dribbled past him at one point and walked. Spent most of the second half chasing the ref. So spare me the fecking whiter than white.
And what happened a week later? Pogba put in an awful performance vs Brighton and did a post-match interview where he even admitted his attitude wasn't right. Shortly afterwards he gets stripped of the vice-captaincy due to his poor attitude.
Here we go again. Do you ever get tired of bringing up the 7-0? It was over a year ago and yet you still seem to almost revel in referencing the most humiliating defeat in our lifetime. It's bad enough having to be reminded about the 7-0 by the scousers without having to hear it from our own fans. How about bringing up a player performance vs Liverpool more recently where we won the game, like l don't know... the one that occurred a few days ago? Where Bruno put in a selfless performance filling in at CB and LB.
Why would you not count the 25+ penalty goals? And you can always chose the stats that suits your case.
Yes and yes. Via his agent and his camp, not about team mates but mostly about the club and manager. Ultra talents with his national team maybe? for United he's about half the player. But that's besides the point. My point was it doesn't matter if a player is 'ultra talented' if he brings with him a bad culture to the club.
I never said that. All I said was it was evident he brought with him the culture of player power. His agent played it dirty and of course would have only said things under his approval. Sir Alex said it himself and in the end he's right. Pogba left United the same way as he left the first time.
Then why are you going out of your way defending him? he's not here anymore. Overall Bruno is a more likeable player. Helped us during covid times where we found our form back and took the shine and burden off Pogba's back. And he respects the club + fans by not constantly seeking a move out. You as a fan of the club should normally warm up to players like him. That is unless you adore or obsessed with a player so much that you keep bringing him up in an unrelated player thread. Oh and by the way, where is Pogba now? caught doping and banned. That's right. That's his integrity as a player. You don't need to fantasize scenarios, it happened, that's the fact. But you do you and keep supporting a banned player who has tried to feck with United time and time again via his agent, than actually supporting one who is contributing at the moment.
Again I want to emphasize Bruno's playstyle might not be everyone's cup of tea. But give it a break, we might even bring more midfielders in. If you want to see more opinion on Pogba, I'd suggest you read his thread on Juventuz forum. So you'll get multiple PoVs from two different clubs' supporters. If most of them point towards the same thing then maybe it's true? or don't, you might faint.
Wow what a rant
YOU chose the stats
Goals and assists are hardly random stats. To be fair they are the only stats that ultimately make a difference in the big picture…the small details are better observed through the eyes in my opinion.
Why not count pens? Because how would that be fair to other United players who have been at the club while Bruno has been here? Outside of pens, that only he can take,his output is not that impressive at this point. Had Rashford taken 20 odd pens over the last few years his stats would look much better and probably be above KDB.
Do you mean this season when both have barely been available or are you meaning last season? Its highly questionable that he had a better season than Casemiro and Martinez last season.
The Bruno debate is one that seems to divide the Caf based on what you see above. Statistically you can point to his fantastic chance creation stats and its clear the guy gives everything for the team, covering every blade of grass. You can't question his commitment.
The ultra-transitionsal United side is perfect for Bruno's old number 10 style of role and he suits having speedy direct attackers in front of him.
The real question is will Bruno suit our style going forward and can he adapt his game to play more like a playmaker/ number 8 in a possession based system
our current tactics are unsustainable if we want to move forward
The ultra-transitionsal United side is perfect for Bruno's old number 10 style of role and he suits having speedy direct attackers in front of him.
The real question is will Bruno suit our style going forward and can he adapt his game to play more like a playmaker/ number 8 in a possession based system
our current tactics are unsustainable if we want to move forward
Goal.com just posted an article saying would Bruno make the Premier League hall of fame one day with the caption “Don’t make me laugh”… Meanwhile Rashford got “Needs more time”
Apparently Trent gets in though easily.
Bruno would be on my team sheet always before either of those. A far superior footballer in the Premier league and of course international football than either.
People talk like Trent has 6 PL titles or something in the media. He has only one more than Bruno and has finished behind United a few times also even at our lowest in a pretty stacked liverpool team with Klopp as manager.
Apparently Trent gets in though easily.
Bruno would be on my team sheet always before either of those. A far superior footballer in the Premier league and of course international football than either.
People talk like Trent has 6 PL titles or something in the media. He has only one more than Bruno and has finished behind United a few times also even at our lowest in a pretty stacked liverpool team with Klopp as manager.
@Son you've forgotten two important things:
1. Trent is English.
2. The rightback position doesn't exactly have a proud PL history. G.Neville and Walker are Trent's only real competition. Now compare that to the attacking midfielders in the same period
But if Rashford makes the hall of fame, then so should Bruno.
1. Trent is English.
2. The rightback position doesn't exactly have a proud PL history. G.Neville and Walker are Trent's only real competition. Now compare that to the attacking midfielders in the same period
But if Rashford makes the hall of fame, then so should Bruno.
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Cantona, Schmeichel, Irwin, Keane, Scholes, Becks, Cole, ole, Giggs, Rio, Rooney, Vidic, Ronaldo, RVP, DeGea. Henry, Viera, Bergkamp, Overmars, Adams, Dixon, Seaman, Wright, Cesc, sol Campbell….At this point it’s fair to say ‘NO’
Why would you count them?
Hang on - did he exclude Bruno's penalties and leave Pogba's in?
Brentford 1:1 Man Utd
New
An absolute pile of garbage. Should be held to a higher standard as our captain, presiding over the worst footballing side we've ever had.
Even in the first 10 mins where we looked up to something, he was giving away errant flicks and misplacing easy passes
Hope he's sold in the summer
Even in the first 10 mins where we looked up to something, he was giving away errant flicks and misplacing easy passes
Hope he's sold in the summer
Awful today like the rest.
Woeful, as per usual
Probably his worse performance on this season. I would rather see Mount play again Chelsea with Casemiro and Mainoo
I love when we’re struggling for possession. Finally get it and he has a shot from 30 yards to give the ball back. Drives me insane.
That was complete and utter dogshit
Needless losses of possession and stupid passes to nobody and that was comfortably one of his worst ever games for us
A performance so bad he deserves to be dropped
Needless losses of possession and stupid passes to nobody and that was comfortably one of his worst ever games for us
A performance so bad he deserves to be dropped
We're at the point where we should think about dropping him or at least give someone else a run in his position. He's not putting the performances in. I've gone off him this season.
One of those will go into the net some day.
Granted we'll be in the championship by then, but still.
Unquestionably would rather see Mount at the 10. Bruno week after week puts in 4-5/10 performances (even when we win), must be dropped, and yet he’s undroppable. Make it make sense