Don't fully agree with this.
Spain beat us from pillar to post for 120 minutes. It was an all time jailbreak win
The last club he managed 15 fecking years ago he relegated that club. No club has wanted him since. Conversation over.
So because Chiellini was caught in a fast transition moment for England in the middle of the pitch denying a sprint duel vs one of the fastest in the game you want to argue that Chiellini was not one of the best defenders in the world at that time? Based on one scene? Him and Bonucci had their last hurrah in that tournament and were definitely the best cb pairing of the tournament
And their weaknesses were there for all to see.
Ole’s better
Meh.
Consistently beige
He got the England job because Big Sam got caught having a pint of wine with the wrong person.
Spain domimated the ball and game but were like a boxer with no knockout punch. TBH even before that tie it was them or Italy I personally expected to go on an lift the trophy, given how both had been in thr tournament till then.
Ole's demonstratably better.
It says a lot about your quality of post that you have created and put in quote marks something that was never said. It is a fact that Austria had a winning goal ruled out by VAR, it is a fact the game with Belgium was quite even, it is a fact that Spain completely bosses that game but had no ability to score, that had over 70% possession and Mancini said afterwards Italy weren’t at their level on the ball so had to suffer and just play route one.
Not you too
And a better manager would have navigated how to get out of that situation.Not you too
Seriously, did collective hysteria made brits forget how that game went? England got defensive for the last 15 minutes of the first half - by choice - because of all energy they spent in the first 30 minutes trying to outright kill the game off. In the second half, they weren't pinned back by choice - Italy forced them
Maybe. Maybe not. This idealized "better manager" thing you've got going on is plain delusional. "Better managers" have fecked up worse in similar situations. Southgate's management of the second half and ET were subpar, yeah (conversely his pregame management and preparation were exceptional)
Nobody does Klopp style energetic press at international level. To begin with, managers don't have the time to implement that, for another, a euro final is game number ~70 of the season for those guys, and the 7th in a month. You can't possibly expect them to play with the fitness of a mid-November game. Most likely England were even able to start like that because of Wembley
This place would explode if he became uniteds mgr. I think Ratcliffe has too much sense though to think about it whereas the Glazers mistakenly would think it would be great for united supporters.
Not you too
Seriously, did collective hysteria made brits forget how that game went? England got defensive for the last 15 minutes of the first half - by choice - because of all energy they spent in the first 30 minutes trying to outright kill the game off. In the second half, they weren't pinned back by choice - Italy forced them
This is such a weird argument. "better managers have fecked up too so there's nothing to say a better manger can do better". It can be said about literally anything in any sport and is such a flawed argument.
I'm not expecting anything. I'm saying this argument that England ran too hard and got gassed is untrue. That's not how the game went. We got an early goal, had our tails up, and Italy just took the sting out the game by keeping ball and silencing the crowd. It wasn't an energy thing, it was just Italy being more streetwise than us.
Explode is how I would describe OT when Amad's shot rolled into the far corner. Implode is probably more accurate for that
Agree re first half, not second. Second it appeared to me at least the game plan was to soak up pressure, invite you on and then counter. Modern players aren’t done after 30 mins and then have nothing left. After half time we could have contested the midfield a lot more but clearly chose not to. You’re effectively saying England ran so much in 30mins they then had nothing left in the tank but yet hung on until penalties?Not you too
Seriously, did collective hysteria made brits forget how that game went? England got defensive for the last 15 minutes of the first half - by choice - because of all energy they spent in the first 30 minutes trying to outright kill the game off. In the second half, they weren't pinned back by choice - Italy forced them
Seemingly the only thing that makes even slight sense is that he's got a good working relationship with Ashworth. Who hasn't even properly been allowed to join us yet.
No, you describe it in broad terms, while I'm using it for a specific situation. "A better manager would have done better in that situation" is a flawed argument. Football games have an inherent component of randomness which makes game management as much a lottery as anything. Rarely are there such clear problems requiring equally clear fixes.
In broad terms, sure, in a single, specific situation, not really. It's not even like every better manager than Southgate is automatically particularly good at in game management either.
We struggled to get out of our half for the first 20 minutes of that game, had several situations where we got away with our lives because england's attackers fecked up and generally played in desperate survival mode until around the ~30 minutes mark. At which point England's aggression had started to fade, pace was slowing down and we finally managed to consolidate possession and get out. To me it looked hell of a lot more like england were gassed than anything we did
No, I'm saying England didn't have enough to press Italy aggressively well enough to seriously trouble Italy's build up. Just so we are clear: yes, England chose to not press Italy, but it was a choice forced by context. Add to that, England's low block defence had been exceptional all tournament long and Italy's attack was deadly when it could run but fairly toothless against deep blocks, too. By ET England were the team keeping the ball and attacking, as Italy had themselves ran out of energy+our subs were a much bigger downgrade
That would be a reasonable take then. As opposed to the other poster who thought Italy were amazing.
A better manager would have very likely navigated that final better than Southgate did. You punting that its plausible they wouldn't does not vindicate Southgate remotely. Something being plausible is not the same as something being probable.
Better managers certainly wouldn't be chronically bad with in game management, like Southgate has proven in most of his big games.
We had a squad that was more than capable of not being penned back, and we retreated in doing so. This is because our manager is incredibly conservatives and safe, often lacking the balls to actually set his team up to go at teams with an attacking philosophy over the course of a game. This has been proven time and time again constantly.
I'm not sure that's true, and I don't think it was that much of a fault on his part anyways. His gameplan was working until the ~55th minute, and Italy scored 10 minutes later. That was the window he didn't use to change things up. He did try to change things after the 1-1(switch back to 433, Saka, Henderson and Graelish subs), they just didn't work until ET
I mean, that is something you could accuse him of at the euros, but certainly not at the last WC
His gameplan was chronically flawed. You don't sit deep and counter at home against Italy, who are doing the same thing. It's ill suited to our attackers in the match day squad, it killed our momentum coming into the final and it was a sure hit way of quietening our own crowd from "lets fecking go at them" into " feck, worried here, lets hold on against their attacks". It's completely defeatist and, no, it wasn't working because we got played off the park almost the entiregame.
Not quite, he hooked our biggest creative outlet in Saka (who was proving very tricky to handle). And he didnt go for the equaliser until too late (overly conservative, true to form). Again, his leading goal scorer was Rashford, who got what 5 minutes against France?
Only game Italy weren't clearly the best team in was the Spain semi-final. That was even and could've gone either way. But up to that point Italy had been the best team in the tournament from the start of the opening game against Turkey. Worthy winners.
Exactly. He's done better than most England managers have (the argument that this is the best England squad ever is BS) and isn't given fair credit.
Its almost as dumb as the moyes appointment. I'll never forgive the club for that feckin level of idiocy. Southgate should stay where he is.
