Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

ScholesyTheWise

Full Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2022
Messages
1,077
That_Bloke said:
Nah, they went too far and it's too well documented. That's beyond anything that happened in Palestine since 1948 and more importantly a genocide. Can't cover this up, not that they even tried to.

Some political establishments in the West (UK, Germany, Australia, US and France) might still give them unconditional support, but the younger generations don't have the same connection with Israel as their fathers and forefathers do. And they won't forget what they've seen in the past six months.

The time of Israel being the chosen country is coming to an end.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. the "couple of years in we're back to business" might be true short-term,
but the world "belongs" to the people who are now in their early 20s and see what's going on.
it's of no help to the people in Gaza who lose their lives now in ways that are beyond words- and it won't help to citizens of Israel and Lebanon if indeed all hell breaks loose in the coming weeks, as many more will die- but it's something to consider for the long term.

There's no way back from this as far as I'm concerned.

time will tell though.


@That_Bloke seeing as we tried to delve into Bibi's mind before,
yesterday his team mistakenly had a rehearsal to a press conference of his, broadcasted to some news channels.
it shows from the 1:10 mark to the 2:00 mark in the tweet above. Sadly the are no subtitles, but by the way he looks, how he argues with one of his staff members about what's written in the speech and the amount of air-conditioning in the room....

one can definitly see that he looks old, somewhat unhinged.
 
Last edited:

africanspur

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
9,154
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
WCK says its cars were marked with charity logo

The aid workers were travelling in a "deconflicted zone in two armoured cars branded with the WCK logo" and a normal vehicle, the charity's most recent statement about the attack says.

World Central Kitchen says it had coordinating movements with Israeli forces, but they were attacked after leaving a warehouse in Deir al-Balah.

The charity’s CEO Erin Gore says in the statement she is “heartbroken and appalled” and the charity is pausing operations in Gaza.


I'm sure the IDF will definitely conduct a thorough investigation though. ;) And the IDF definitely isn't targeting civilians. ;)
 

BarstoolProphet

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
6,532
Maybe I'm being a bit naïve, but hopefully the Western powerhouses will finally wake the feck up now that their own citizens is getting slaughtered by Israel.
 

Giggsyking

Full Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
8,529
Speaking to Radio 4's Today programme, James Elder describes the killing of the World Central Kitchen workers as "utterly horrifying" and an "immense tragedy".

He adds the deaths "underscores the horrendous conditions everyone continues to endure in Gaza" but it is just such a senseless loss of life".

"This has been one of the most dangerous places in living memory to operate, Gaza is breaking too many bleak records - numbers of children killed, number of people facing catastrophic hunger, record displacement, worst devastation to homes in living memory and largest number of United Nations colleagues killed since it was created."
 

Giggsyking

Full Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
8,529

This, It is calculated, they want the people to starve to death.

And its working


Second aid organisation pausing Gaza operations
Yolande Knell
Middle East correspondent, in Jerusalem
Another US-based NGO, American Near East Refugee Aid (Anera), playing a key role in providing food for hungry Palestinians has said it is also freezing its operations in Gaza.
Anera has been working closely with World Central Kitchen in recent months.
"Anera and WCK are pausing our Gaza operations. Together, Anera and WCK provide some 2 million meals a week in Gaza,” Sean Carroll, the charity's CEO told me.
"Our battered, broken hearts are with our friends at World Central Kitchen today and everyday,” he wrote earlier on X.
Asked about the impact that the decision to halt food provision would have on Gazans, whom the UN says are facing a man-made famine, Caroll pointed out that: “The occupying power has an obligation under international law to provide for the people under occupation.”
 
Last edited:

Giggsyking

Full Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
8,529
Absence of government in Gaza fuels chaotic environment
Click to expand...
Jeremy Bowen
Reporting from northern Israel

Gaza is highly dangerous and I think this terrible incident is a function of the reluctance of occupying power Israel to institute mechanisms of law and order; to try and think hard about governance, which might involve difficult political consequences back in Israel itself.
In other words, it seems to be - and remember we are not allowed into Gaza to report ourselves - a chaotic environment.
When people like those aid workers move around in there they do what’s called co-ordination with the Israelis and inform them of their planned movements, their vehicles, their staff.
But, my understanding from talking to aid organisations who have been operating there for months - during which many, many Palestinian aid workers have been killed - is even though they co-ordinate with Israel they still get attacked.
So when there is an absence of governance, an absence of law and order, Israel going in and out and doing their military stuff and not doing other things, these kind of incidents are, sadly, going to happen because this is such a nightmarish environment.
Click to expand...
"Sadly these kind of INCIDENTS are going to happen"

Ladies and Gentlemen the impartial BBC analysis.
 

The Corinthian

I will not take Mad Winger's name in vain
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
11,884
Supports
A Free Palestine
the_cliff said:
He does have a point. Not in the sense you're thinking. It has been an absolute clusterfeck from Israel and the US if you really think about it. They haven't got rid of Hamas, they've empowered the houthis, has been a PR disaster, increased Irans influence in the region especially with regards to the Gulf states and made it practically impossible for the normalisation of relations between Israel and Saudi.

And then to cap it all off they still have no plan on what to do next. It's like they make it up as they go, one day maybe invade Rafah, one day maybe war with Hezbollah, one day maybe a coalition of Egypt/UAE/Saudi will run Gaza, one day maybe not.
Click to expand...
It's collective punishment and collective destruction from the start. The only question is how far would Israel go? And now that they've essentially had the US's blessing with all of it, we can see how inhumane and depraved they've become.

The US and Israel will come out unscathed through all this simply because the US is a nuclear superpower backing its regional superpower to the hilt. With the way Israel is bombing Lebanon, Syria unabated, it proves that Iran is correct in wanting to go nuclear, and I'd imagine most Arab states will want to follow.
 

nimic

something nice
Scout
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
31,503
Location
And I'm all out of bubblegum.
Giggsyking said:

This, It is calculated, they want the people to starve to death.

And its working


Second aid organisation pausing Gaza operations
Yolande Knell
Middle East correspondent, in Jerusalem
Another US-based NGO, American Near East Refugee Aid (Anera), playing a key role in providing food for hungry Palestinians has said it is also freezing its operations in Gaza.
Anera has been working closely with World Central Kitchen in recent months.
"Anera and WCK are pausing our Gaza operations. Together, Anera and WCK provide some 2 million meals a week in Gaza,” Sean Carroll, the charity's CEO told me.
"Our battered, broken hearts are with our friends at World Central Kitchen today and everyday,” he wrote earlier on X.
Asked about the impact that the decision to halt food provision would have on Gazans, whom the UN says are facing a man-made famine, Caroll pointed out that: “The occupying power has an obligation under international law to provide for the people under occupation.”
Click to expand...
It's simply genocide.
 

That_Bloke

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
2,879
Location
Cologne
Supports
Leicester City
Shez said:
Surprisingly still nowhere near enough coverage. Waiting on the spin
Click to expand...
There won't be any spin, the IDF fingerprints are all over it and no one will buy it.

The media will just not cover it and it will be quietly swept under the rug until the next "accident". It's been like this for decades. No one can know if no one talks about it.

That's how the freedom merchants deal with dissenting voices, reports that don't do their way or actions that paint their allies in a bad light. Much more efficient and discreet, although less flashy, than people accidentally falling out of windows.
 

Giggsyking

Full Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
8,529
That_Bloke said:
There won't be any spin, the IDF fingerprints are all over it and no one will buy it.

The media will just not cover it and it will be quietly swept under the rug until the next "tragedy". It's been like this for decades, no one can know if no one talks about it.

That's how the freedom merchants deal with dissenting voices or reports that don't do their way. Much more efficient and discreet, although less flashy, than people accidentally falling out of windows.
Click to expand...
 

That_Bloke

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
2,879
Location
Cologne
Supports
Leicester City
ScholesyTheWise said:
I agree with this. the "couple of years in we're back to business" might be true short-term,
but the world "belongs" to the people who are now in their early 20s and see what's going on.
it's of no help to the people in Gaza who lose their lives now in ways that are beyond words- and it won't help to citizens of Israel and Lebanon if indeed all hell breaks loose in the coming weeks, as many more will die- but it's something to consider for the long term.

There's no way back from this as far as I'm concerned.

time will tell though.


@That_Bloke seeing as we tried to delve into Bibi's mind before,
yesterday his team mistakenly had a rehearsal to a press conference of his, broadcasted to some news channels.
it shows from the 1:10 mark to the 2:00 mark in the tweet above. Sadly the are no subtitles, but by the way he looks, how he argues with one of his staff members about what's written in the speech and the amount of air-conditioning in the room....

one can definitly see that he looks old, somewhat unhinged.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

I sadly fear so. It's an absolute tragedy for both Palestine and Israel.

I sense someone fully convinced that he's on a mission and no one will make him budge. This vile excuse of a human being went on "Feck it and feck all of you" mode, and now that things got this far, there's no point in going back. He's damning himself and will drag Israel down with him.
 

Fridge chutney

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
8,961
That_Bloke said:
It is not.

The goal is and always to collectively punish the Gazan population and ethnically cleanse the strip. All actions undertaken in the last six months indicate and prove Israel's intent. Also send a message to humanitarian organizations to not try to be too clever and preferably feck off from there. They're about to get rid of UNRWA which was a massive thorn in their side and what happened today with the WCK isnt their first hit. Israel has a long history of shooting ambulances and get away with literal murder. It will make more noise for a couple of days, because it's not brown people who got killed.

Israel is right now staring down at the abyss with the intention of taking a leap.

People like @AfonsoAlves who struggle to understand, provided they half-followed the last six months, can't either come to grips with the enormity of the crime in our day and age, or are willfully blind.
Click to expand...
Sounds pretty evil to me.
 

africanspur

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
9,154
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
Giggsyking said:
It's like he never reads the room. How can someone be a politician and at the same time cant time his statements? He must have a very low IQ like most US politicians.
Click to expand...
He's reading the room perfectly. It's just not occupied by the same kind of people that may be in your room.

Sadly that room contains some of the most powerful decision makers in the world.
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
31,815
Location
Ginseng Strip
africanspur said:
He's reading the room perfectly. It's just not occupied by the same kind of people that may be in your room.

Sadly that room contains some of the most powerful decision makers in the world.
Click to expand...
Considering he's speaking at an annual forum for a notoriously neoconservative think tank, I'd say he was being a little too soft for their perked hawkish ears.
 

That_Bloke

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
2,879
Location
Cologne
Supports
Leicester City
Fridge chutney said:
Sounds pretty evil to me.
Click to expand...
True, but I tend to make the difference between evil for the lulz and political intent using evil methods if necessary, and that's something many fail to do. Not only in this conflict but also in many others. It narrows the view, clouds jugment and therefore prevents one to understand the motives behind and find the means to counter it.

This is not aimed at you, just a general remark.
 
Last edited:

nimic

something nice
Scout
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
31,503
Location
And I'm all out of bubblegum.
That_Bloke said:
There won't be any spin, the IDF fingerprints are all over it and no one will buy it.

The media will just not cover it and it will be quietly swept under the rug until the next "accident". It's been like this for decades. No one can know if no one talks about it.

That's how the freedom merchants deal with dissenting voices, reports that don't do their way or actions that paint their allies in a bad light. Much more efficient and discreet, although less flashy, than people accidentally falling out of windows.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this "no media coverage" thing. It's featured pretty heavily on the front page of CNN, BBC and The Guardian.
 

That_Bloke

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
2,879
Location
Cologne
Supports
Leicester City
nimic said:
I don't understand this "no media coverage" thing. It's featured pretty heavily on the front page of CNN, BBC and The Guardian.
Click to expand...
For a couple of days, if any, then it will fade into obscurity. And I'd personally steer clear from the BBC when it comes to impartiality. The Guardian's been doing a very good job in the last six months though, from the get-go.

There's been massive international law violations and war crimes committed by Israel in the last decades which never made it to the front pages. What's happening in the West Bank right now isn't talked about in any meaningful way, although the situation there is very, very serious. Western people got killed that's why you're getting a bit of an uproar but it will die down and business as usual will be resumed. I'd give it 3-5 days tops.
 
Last edited:

Fridge chutney

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
8,961
That_Bloke said:
True, but I tend to make the difference between evil for the lulz and political intent using evil methods if necessary, and that's something many fail to do. Not only in this conflict but also in many others. It narrows the view, clouds jugment and therefore prevents one to understand the motives and find the means to counter it.

This is not aimed at you, just a general remark.
Click to expand...
Yes that is fair. It is not lost on me that there is a very clear purpose/goal to what Netanyahu and the IDF are doing in Gaza. Doesn't stop it from being evil in my opinion.
 

Idxomer

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
15,348


Very few gave a shit when they kept killing tens of aid security and coordinators last month. They want to starve every Palestinian, that has been the goal for a long time.
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
31,815
Location
Ginseng Strip
nimic said:
I don't understand this "no media coverage" thing. It's featured pretty heavily on the front page of CNN, BBC and The Guardian.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say its an issue an exposure, but rather the tonality of the reporting.

On the exposure front there are some serious discrepancies covering both sides of the conflict, most shameful example being the BBC failing to broadcast South Africa's case at the ICJ, and then proceeding to give the Israeli case full live coverage the following day. But on the tonality there definitely is a consistent imbalance - Israeli sources taken almost as gospel versus the perpetually 'unverified' Palestinian sources, the use of language (Palestinan kids 'found' dead following bombing, 'chaos' leading to Palestinians dying while desperately rushing to aid supplies etc), compared to the rather direct conclusions of Israelis being murdered and killed by Hamas terrorists. And then of course you have the infamous media television circuits insisting that any pro-Palestinian guest is pushed to condemning Hamas as a caveated intro to any interview or debate where no such stipulation is given to those with Israeli sympathies regarding the IDF's towering number of crimes and cold-blooded murders.

There are of course examples of good, bonafide journalist work being done in some mainstream outlets to enforce a consistent and fair coverage and scrutiny of events as they unfold, but sadly they're outliers.
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
31,815
Location
Ginseng Strip
roseguy64 said:
Was just coming to post this from another page. Netanyahu saying it was unintended is wild.
Click to expand...
Its the usual trajectory anytime Israel are exposed to have committed such a crime.

Step 1 - Deny culpability, blame it on rogue Hamas rocket, roadside bomb.

Step 2 - Accept culpability, but deny deliberate nature of it. Recycle the usual tropes of 'war is awful, terrible things happen amongst the chaos of hostilities', and promise an internal investigation. This of course is bolstered by Israel's allies also shedding crocodile tears and insisting that Israel 'should' do what they can to respect international law and protect civilians best they can. Of course the investigation they promise is akin to that meme clip of the apathetic security guard outside a football stadium doing a security search of matchgoers.

Step 3 - Commit another war crime, making the narrative overwrite the previous one which will be shelved and conveniently forgotten.

Its worked a treat for them so far.
 

Idxomer

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
15,348
Kaos said:
Its the usual trajectory anytime Israel are exposed to have committed such a crime.

Step 1 - Deny culpability, blame it on rogue Hamas rocket, roadside bomb.

Step 2 - Accept culpability, but deny deliberate nature of it. Recycle the usual tropes of 'war is awful, terrible things happen amongst the chaos of hostilities', and promise an internal investigation. This of course is bolstered by Israel's allies also shedding crocodile tears and insisting that Israel 'should' do what they can to respect international law and protect civilians best they can.

Step 3 - Commit another war crime, making the narrative overwrite the previous one which will be shelved and conveniently forgotten.

Its worked a treat for them so far.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I think the goal is to overwhelm us with atrocities. The airstrike came less than a day after the uncovering of their massacres in Al Shifa, and on the same day, they bombed an Iranian consulate in Syria.

Trivial stuff like the ban on Al Jazeera or the constant bombing of Rafah are ignored.
 

That_Bloke

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
2,879
Location
Cologne
Supports
Leicester City
Kaos said:
I wouldn't say its an issue an exposure, but rather the tonality of the reporting.

On the exposure front there are some serious discrepancies covering both sides of the conflict, most shameful example being the BBC failing to broadcast South Africa's case at the ICJ, and then proceeding to give the Israeli case full live coverage the following day. But on the tonality there definitely is a consistent imbalance - Israeli sources taken almost as gospel versus the perpetually 'unverified' Palestinian sources, the use of language (Palestinan kids 'found' dead following bombing, 'chaos' leading to Palestinians dying while desperately rushing to aid supplies etc), compared to the rather direct conclusions of Israelis being murdered and killed by Hamas terrorists. And then of course you have the infamous media television circuits insisting that any pro-Palestinian guest is pushed to condemning Hamas as a caveated intro to any interview or debate where no such stipulation is given to those with Israeli sympathies regarding the IDF's towering number of crimes and cold-blooded murders.

There are of course examples of good, bonafide journalist work being done in some mainstream outlets to enforce a consistent and fair coverage and scrutiny of events as they unfold, but sadly they're outliers.
Click to expand...
Excellent post, much more eloquently put than I ever could.

I still maintain that there's a number of grave human rights violations and war crimes documented by reputed human rights organizations which haven't been reported at all by the mainstream media.

Putting the Palestinians on a diet (calculating the exact number of calories needed for every Gazan to not starve to death and only letting in the corresponding amount of food), administrative detention which includes Palestinians as young as 12 being indefinitely held in jail without judgement or warrant, shoot to intentionally and permanently maim (kneecaps, uterus, testicles) being some of them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.