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Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?

Would you appoint Thomas Tuchel as the next Manchester United manager?

  • Total voters
    382
  • This poll will close: .

Woziak

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Don't Kill Bill said:
Interesting reading.

Wonder if this means we have to sell an Amad, Mct or Rashford to make it work.
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We need cash, and that’s why players like Rashford is up for sale, even if PSG want him and the club agrees £75m, they are one of a few clubs that can pay upfront and they might lowball the club at £60m, PSG do this all the time and that’s why they can upgrade their squad all the time, this would have been the huge advantage had Qatar bought United 100%, Sir Jim owns 27.7% so the only way he’s putting more cash in is for more shares and he now has full access to the accounts and I bet he can’t believe the absolute mess he’s witnessing.

My guess is they desperately want to raise cash and these players offer the best opportunities to raise real cash ;

Sell M Rashford to PSG - £75m, Sell Casemiro to Saudi £25m
Potentially £100m cash injection.

Assume Rashford doesn’t happen and they switch priorities to Sell M Greenwood to Juventus or Athletico £40m and J Sancho to Dortmund or Milan for £35m. We may be able to agree these sales in 3 instalments which might give the club £35m this summer extra so we might woth a good summer sell Casemiro, J Sancho and M Greenwood for a total of £100m but only generate £65m cash this summer. This is the part fans just do not understand, the Glazers completely bled the club dry.and now there is hardly any cash or credit to bankroll the changes needed. The Qatar bid made a huge point about SJR would hardly spend any money and they would spend £250m well now we are at that point.

TBF to Ineos why should he invest another £200 or £300m when he only owns 27.7%, SJR has basically giving us CPR with an AED (Automated External Defibrillator)

This is why nothing happened in the January window, there was not just PSR issues but genuine Cashflow constraints
 

Woziak

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Red in STL said:
Nicely put together, but in the real world I don't see many, if any, of those players signing 5 year contracts on those salaries
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You make the huge mistake of thinking we are a massive draw next season, without CL football and probably without Europa League, the players that stay have an automatic 20/25% drop in salaries, so the only way we will attract players like Frimpong who may only be on £25k per week now but with a ridiculously low buyout clause of £34m, teams like Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid would easily be able to offer him €6-7m per season. Those wages are more in line with how an efficient football club is run and you have to wager the 20% reduction into their first year wages and still sell the vision of the club!
 

Red in STL

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Woziak said:
You make the huge mistake of thinking we are a massive draw next season, without CL football and probably without Europa League, the players that stay have an automatic 20/25% drop in salaries, so the only way we will attract players like Frimpong who may only be on £25k per week now but with a ridiculously low buyout clause of £34m, teams like Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid would easily be able to offer him €6-7m per season. Those wages are more in line with how an efficient football club is run and you have to wager the 20% reduction into their first year wages and still sell the vision of the club!
Click to expand...
What makes you think that I think that?

All I said was that I don't think those players will sign 5 year deals on the salaries you suggested
 

Woziak

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Red in STL said:
What makes you think that I think that?

All I said was that I don't think those players will sign 5 year deals on the salaries you suggested
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Those salaries £4m-6m per year are not huge especially when you reduce them by 20-25% as they would have to agree.

Jared Braithwaite is currently on a 5 year contract at £35,000 per week with 4 years left .
Jean Claude Todibo is currently on €22,000 per year on on a 5 year contract with 2 years left
Jeremie Frimpong is currently on €76,000 on a 5 year with 2 years left
Rayan Allt-Nouri is currently on £33,000 per week on a 5 year contract with 2 years left.

None of them are going to leave for the same money and they will all want a substantial pay rise to make the next move up,

United will no longer be as financial inept as before, suggesting that the wages that I illustrated are very much in line to being more like the way Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs pay their players.

Jeremie. Frimpong would want maybe more at £7-8m per season but we can explain that he is in line with Lisandro Martinez and should he prove himself the contract would be reviewed after two years which is how a club like United should run.
 

Stinkypete

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Foolsgold21 said:
I think all roads are leading this way. Big Jim won’t be content with this current nonsense by Ten Hag - Tuchel is best of a bad bunch.

Also no compensation to pay, which is a bonus when you look at the £10m Liverpool are shelling out for Arne.
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And yet, Liverpool with structure in place and Tuchel on the table have not even considered a fellow German top coach that has a ready made squad for continuities sake. Makes you wonder why we with our aspirations are going for someone that would on paper be shoe in to take over from Klopp.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Statue of Limitations said:
Tuchel has in my eyes failed everywhere he went.
Would take him over Southgate or Potter though.

:(
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Winning a CL with Chelsea is a failure now?

And don't bring up Di Matteo as a rebuttal, because the context is wildly different.

One of them fluked the CL title. And it wasn't Tuchel.
 

glazed

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Big Ben Foster said:
Staying somewhere for 2-3 seasons and then getting sacked is the norm in football. It shouldn't be perceived as a red flag.
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That depends. If it's at Brighton where they keep the same style of play then fine. If it's Chelsea where they end up with a Frankenstein squad then not so much.
Reality is that if we are going to work towards a high press fast transition hyper athletic side then we need a DM, a CD and a CF and we might as well keep ETH, but it should not matter too much if we do not.

But chopping and changing our long term goal to fit in with whichever guy the managerial merry go round spits out that particular summer is exactly the short termism that got us into this mess. It's not what City did, it's not what Arsenal did and it's not what Liverpool did before they finally found success.
 

croadyman

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AneRu said:
Big clubs, if they make big club moves, rarely ever get back to square one. What we have to do is get him to make us competitive whilst Wilcox and Ashworth rebuild the club in the background. Say he comes in, wins the Europa to earn us CL footie and finish fourth in the first season and gets in the CL, in the following one, takes us to the quarters and finishes fourth, to me that will be worth it even if he burns the house down and has to go.

Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox will have to use those two seasons to build a side that matches their vision and what the fans want to see. Look at Newcastle, for example, they have the makings of a competitive team which can easily overtake the likes of Spurs and Villa if they play their cards right in the summer. So the onus is on the football board to build a strong side, one that can survive the manager so that the incoming manager won't have to start from scratch.
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That's exactly what I would want to see him do over the next couple of seasons, however still feels INEOS haven't closed the door on giving Erik another season so could be academic.

I have also seen a couple of posters on here suggests he is a bad fit for teams needing a rebuild,basically saying he is another Zidane who you only appoint when the squad is in place and ready to challenge. I don't know how true that is and would be interested to hear from someone who knows more on the subject.
 
Last edited:

Theonas

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Eddy_JukeZ said:
Winning a CL with Chelsea is a failure now?

And don't bring up Di Matteo as a rebuttal, because the context is wildly different.

One of them fluked the CL title. And it wasn't Tuchel.
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Tuchel did not fluke his CL win but likewise, that win did not indicate he has the qualities to lead a big club to compete with the very best. That win indicated that he is brilliant tactically and can set his team up to counter and deal with some of the best teams in Europe. Rafa Benitez had that quality as well, he was one of the best in the world at that. That's just one of the qualities we need in a top manager at the moment, and if we are about to prioritize, it's one quality we can put second or third actually.
 

croadyman

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stefan92 said:
He doesn't tolerate idiots around him. There are a lot of idiots in and around United's team. I fully get the concern that that might explode quite quickly :lol:
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Yeah it's a messy dressing room full of them, so that's a very understandable concern about him
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Theonas said:
Tuchel did not fluke his CL win but likewise, that win did not indicate he has the qualities to lead a big club to compete with the very best. That win indicated that he is brilliant tactically and can set his team up to counter and deal with some of the best teams in Europe. Rafa Benitez had that quality as well, he was one of the best in the world at that. That's just one of the qualities we need in a top manager at the moment, and if we are about to prioritize, it's one quality we can put second or third actually.
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To be fair, I didn't say he has proved it all.

But there's a chance he could prove it here if he's hired. Might be the first time he manages under a coherent/unified footballing board.

If he fails, we just move on.
 

Theonas

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Eddy_JukeZ said:
To be fair, I didn't say he has proved it all.

But there's a chance he could prove it here if he's hired. Might be the first time he manages under a coherent/unified footballing board.

If he fails, we just move on.
Click to expand...
I am skeptical about Tuchel but that's mainly because I have an image of how a manager of a successful PL team looks like. The great PL teams are obviously us, Arsenal, City and you'd have to add Mourinho's Chelsea and Klopp's Liverpool. Arsenal currently look like the best PL team after the big two over the past 5 or 6 years. The pattern between all these teams is a manager that really became synonimous with the club. They gave their club a clear identity and achieved a great connection with their fans. They did not act like they and the board were at loggerheads and that they were merely a hired gun. Obviously that's different in the continent but in England, that's how all the successful ones have been. Bear in mind my definition of success is building a team that can consistently challenge. Tuchel just doesn't give me that impression with his personality. He comes across like he can set up a team as well as anyone but he seems to lack the emotional commitment and stability to really immerse himself in a role. I could be wrong of course but that's just my gut feeling about him and I think we are in a place where we need someone with the personality of early Mourinho, Klopp or even Arteta. Someone that will really create that energy around the place with the fans. It is also why I think Ten Hag is failing here. I don't buy for a second that he is inept tactically but I think his soft skills and charismatic powers are severely lacking. I would have never thought that was a necessary ingredient few years ago but I am coming to see a pattern in the English game that is clearly very different to the other big clubs in Europe.
 

CtrlAltDeLigt

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Woziak said:
We need cash, and that’s why players like Rashford is up for sale, even if PSG want him and the club agrees £75m, they are one of a few clubs that can pay upfront and they might lowball the club at £60m, PSG do this all the time and that’s why they can upgrade their squad all the time, this would have been the huge advantage had Qatar bought United 100%, Sir Jim owns 27.7% so the only way he’s putting more cash in is for more shares and he now has full access to the accounts and I bet he can’t believe the absolute mess he’s witnessing.

My guess is they desperately want to raise cash and these players offer the best opportunities to raise real cash ;

Sell M Rashford to PSG - £75m, Sell Casemiro to Saudi £25m
Potentially £100m cash injection.

Assume Rashford doesn’t happen and they switch priorities to Sell M Greenwood to Juventus or Athletico £40m and J Sancho to Dortmund or Milan for £35m. We may be able to agree these sales in 3 instalments which might give the club £35m this summer extra so we might woth a good summer sell Casemiro, J Sancho and M Greenwood for a total of £100m but only generate £65m cash this summer. This is the part fans just do not understand, the Glazers completely bled the club dry.and now there is hardly any cash or credit to bankroll the changes needed. The Qatar bid made a huge point about SJR would hardly spend any money and they would spend £250m well now we are at that point.

TBF to Ineos why should he invest another £200 or £300m when he only owns 27.7%, SJR has basically giving us CPR with an AED (Automated External Defibrillator)

This is why nothing happened in the January window, there was not just PSR issues but genuine Cashflow constraints
Click to expand...
75m for Rashford on that wage? Lucky if we can get 60.

Casemiro for 25 is also difficult, ever since the Saudi gravy train left the station, probably 10-15m

We will find very difficult to sell 100m worth of our players and expect to get better replacements, on top of the areas we definitely need strengthening in like cb/ striker/ full backs

It will take 3/4 windows before we can clear most of the junk out, given the abundance of it we have.
 

CtrlAltDeLigt

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Eddy_JukeZ said:
To be fair, I didn't say he has proved it all.

But there's a chance he could prove it here if he's hired. Might be the first time he manages under a coherent/unified footballing board.

If he fails, we just move on.
Click to expand...
Just moving on is something we can’t afford to do. Brings in another crop of players other managers don’t prefer, adding to ffp restrictions.
 

gaffs

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Woziak said:
We need cash, and that’s why players like Rashford is up for sale, even if PSG want him and the club agrees £75m, they are one of a few clubs that can pay upfront and they might lowball the club at £60m, PSG do this all the time and that’s why they can upgrade their squad all the time, this would have been the huge advantage had Qatar bought United 100%, Sir Jim owns 27.7% so the only way he’s putting more cash in is for more shares and he now has full access to the accounts and I bet he can’t believe the absolute mess he’s witnessing.

My guess is they desperately want to raise cash and these players offer the best opportunities to raise real cash ;

Sell M Rashford to PSG - £75m, Sell Casemiro to Saudi £25m
Potentially £100m cash injection.

Assume Rashford doesn’t happen and they switch priorities to Sell M Greenwood to Juventus or Athletico £40m and J Sancho to Dortmund or Milan for £35m. We may be able to agree these sales in 3 instalments which might give the club £35m this summer extra so we might woth a good summer sell Casemiro, J Sancho and M Greenwood for a total of £100m but only generate £65m cash this summer. This is the part fans just do not understand, the Glazers completely bled the club dry.and now there is hardly any cash or credit to bankroll the changes needed. The Qatar bid made a huge point about SJR would hardly spend any money and they would spend £250m well now we are at that point.

TBF to Ineos why should he invest another £200 or £300m when he only owns 27.7%, SJR has basically giving us CPR with an AED (Automated External Defibrillator)

This is why nothing happened in the January window, there was not just PSR issues but genuine Cashflow constraints
Click to expand...
You are in dream world with these numbers.

There is no way a club is paying £75m plus his 350k a week wages for Rashford. That would be a very similar package to what Real paid for Bellingham.

Plus, with all 4 players you have mentioned, there is a very, very limited pool of clubs that we "think" may be interested. If PSG really are interested, they know they are bidding against themselves and dealing with a seller that wants rid.

Where does Casemiro go if not for Saudi? It feels like the Saudi gravy train has stalled and now they only want the biggest of big names, like Salah.

Same for Sancho and Dortmund? Are they really going to cover his wages and a £35mil fee? no chance.

We saw it with Maguire in the summer. High wages and a limited pool of buyers (ie. just West Ham). It resulted in a bid the club could not accept as we couldn't get a replacement in for the money saved.
 

croadyman

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Freak said:
Have we not learnt our lessons with Chelsea’s rejects?
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Only reason he is a Chelsea reject is due to Boehly being a control freak,so wouldn't class it in the same category as Matic, Mata or Mount, just realised I forgot Lukaku too
 

Teja

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gaffs said:
What happened with Tuchel at Chelsea? Simon Jordan consistently eludes to some kind of issue that forced Bohley 's hand in sacking him.
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I think hindsight has proven that Boehly is an idiot so I don't feel like there's any need to pay more attention to his opinion than you'd pay to some random post on the Caf.

Bayern are a club going through crisis right now and he's still comfortably beat Arsenal and only lost the title to a Leverkusen side on a historic streak. I don't think his playing record at Bayern is particularly bad.

The PSG management are no less idiotic than guys like Boehly. They sacked him for not getting them the CL and proceeded to never win the CL even with Messi, Mbappe and Neymar so eh :-/

I think he's a good coach and he's the one I'd give the benefit of the doubt to under a new structure. Not Ten Hag.
 

Rojofiam

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Teja said:
Yep same. I even put in the effort to scroll back a few pages but yep always ends in disappointment. I'm going to fantasize about his 3-4-2-1 though. It will cover several of our core tactical problems under Ten Hag and I think fits our existing players well. In possession it is:

----------------------- Onana -----------------------
--------- RCB ---- Martinez --- LCB ----------
------------------ Mainoo ---- CM2 --------------
-- Dalot ----------------------------------- WB2 ---
------------------ Bruno --- Mount ---------------
------------------------- Hojlund ---------------------

What we'll get out of it:

1. Stable 3-2 midfield structure by default without the fullback needing to invert or fancy things like that. Some cover for the defence finally.

2. Martinez as the middle of the 3 CBs. Covers his flaws and lets us take advantage of his passing ability.

3. Two #10s, maybe we can squeeze Mount and Bruno in there.

4. I think Shaw / Maguire can run the LCB role for a year, we might get away with not signing anyone.

So we'll need an attacking LWB, a CM to partner Mainoo and an aggressive RCB. It lines up well with our transfer targets so far. Very plausible to get 3 players in.

A link to his Chelsea days: https://thirdmanruns.wordpress.com/...tional-play-an-analysis-of-chelseas-build-up/
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Maguire at CCB for me, if we're going to use a back 5. Also make Jeremie Frimpong a high priority in that case.

Amadou Onana would probably be my pick to partner Mainoo in midfield.
 

gajender

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All those in favour of appointing Tuchel , I just have one question for them aren't you all tired of shit on stick football don't you think we had enough of it in past 10 years .
 

mu4c_20le

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gajender said:
All those in favour of appointing Tuchel , I just have one question for them aren't you all tired of shit on stick football don't you think we had enough of it in past 10 years .
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His Dortmund team outscored Bayern.
 

croadyman

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gajender said:
All those in favour of appointing Tuchel , I just have one question for them aren't you all tired of shit on stick football don't you think we had enough of it in past 10 years .
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So who do you think is that guy we could appoint who wouldn't play shit on a stick football
 

gajender

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mu4c_20le said:
His Dortmund team outscored Bayern.
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That's long time ago I don't think he is that same manager at all he is pragmatist who is more concerned about rivals and tailors everything accordingly rather than imposing his teams will against opposition .
 

gajender

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croadyman said:
So who do you think is that guy we could appoint who wouldn't play shit on a stick football
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Honestly I don't know that's for Ineos to find but with Tuchel we already know what we are getting and for me it aren't pretty .
 

RatPack

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AdNani said:
Give me the examples of Tuchel ‘Destroying everything.’
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After a a couple of seasons all of the teams I mentioned was getting worse. Not winning with Bayern this year even after getting Kane is a good indication.
 

Pintu

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gajender said:
That's long time ago I don't think he is that same manager at all he is pragmatist who is more concerned about rivals and tailors everything accordingly rather than imposing his teams will against opposition .
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He had similar record with Paris. They scored 2,77 goal per game in both of his full seasons there. That’s like 12 goals more than what Enrique is doing now.… And of course we can look at Tuchel’s Bayern this year, they are scoring 2,87 goal per game. He may be playing less adventurous football but he is still allowing his teams to attack.
 

gajender

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Pintu said:
He had similar record with Paris. They scored 2,77 goal per game in both of his full seasons there. That’s like 12 goals more than what Enrique is doing now.… And of course we can look at Tuchel’s Bayern this year, they are scoring 2,87 goal per game. He may be playing less adventurous football but he is still allowing his teams to attack.
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His teams look labored and lack fluidity in attack my personal opinion he struggles to set his team attacking structure properly .

PSG and Bayern have substantial talent advantage against most of their opponents in the league so I am not surprised at their Goal tally .
 

roonster09

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gajender said:
That's long time ago I don't think he is that same manager at all he is pragmatist who is more concerned about rivals and tailors everything accordingly rather than imposing his teams will against opposition .
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Maybe I'm wrong but his teams always had strong underlying numbers isn't it.
 

gajender

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roonster09 said:
Maybe I'm wrong but his teams always had strong underlying numbers isn't it.
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I haven't checked but I am solely going on watching Chelsea under him , I may actually be wrong who knows but honesty Chelsea under him looked dour and uninspiring more often than not .
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Theonas said:
I am skeptical about Tuchel but that's mainly because I have an image of how a manager of a successful PL team looks like. The great PL teams are obviously us, Arsenal, City and you'd have to add Mourinho's Chelsea and Klopp's Liverpool. Arsenal currently look like the best PL team after the big two over the past 5 or 6 years. The pattern between all these teams is a manager that really became synonimous with the club. They gave their club a clear identity and achieved a great connection with their fans. They did not act like they and the board were at loggerheads and that they were merely a hired gun. Obviously that's different in the continent but in England, that's how all the successful ones have been. Bear in mind my definition of success is building a team that can consistently challenge. Tuchel just doesn't give me that impression with his personality. He comes across like he can set up a team as well as anyone but he seems to lack the emotional commitment and stability to really immerse himself in a role. I could be wrong of course but that's just my gut feeling about him and I think we are in a place where we need someone with the personality of early Mourinho, Klopp or even Arteta. Someone that will really create that energy around the place with the fans. It is also why I think Ten Hag is failing here. I don't buy for a second that he is inept tactically but I think his soft skills and charismatic powers are severely lacking. I would have never thought that was a necessary ingredient few years ago but I am coming to see a pattern in the English game that is clearly very different to the other big clubs in Europe.
Click to expand...
Those are fair points. Tuchel wouldn't be my 1st choice either for what it's worth.

Who would you prefer?
 
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