Tuchel isn't a yes man so I can't see him coming to United as Ineos and the people upstairs will be making all the decisions.
Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?
- Thread starter sullydnl
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Really interesting to see. The less football we play the more the EtH apologists crawl out of their holes again. Until we play our next atrocious game of football. Two to three days later they'll start arguing again.
I wonder if they are actually watching us play. No one in their right mind would still stick to him after this season. Even if his replacement is someone like Tuchel (who is far from the worst candidate anyway)
I wonder if they are actually watching us play. No one in their right mind would still stick to him after this season. Even if his replacement is someone like Tuchel (who is far from the worst candidate anyway)
Watching the Champions League semi last night...Tuchel made a substitution, changed the shape and swapper wingers to get them back into the game and it directly resulted in two goals for Bayern.
That's already an improvement on what we have where our manager does nothing to change the momentum at key points in that match, and more often than not, subs made and any subsequent 'tactical' instructions leaves us worse off in terms of momentum.
Sign Tuchel up.
That's already an improvement on what we have where our manager does nothing to change the momentum at key points in that match, and more often than not, subs made and any subsequent 'tactical' instructions leaves us worse off in terms of momentum.
Sign Tuchel up.
I don’t see many who dream of ETH staying, though a few are very lenient. Mostly, it’s a question of two things:
1. Could he be successful if the club structure were solid and the injury list not quite as long?
2. Are there realistic alternatives with a better chance of success available?
History has shown that things can always get worse and that a big name manager doesn’t solve anything for a club in disarray. And of all the big names out there I fear that Tuchel has one of the biggest potential for wreaking havoc in the dressing room and the club. That’s not what we need. Ancelotti would be ideal with his steady hand, mature man management and experience, but that’s just a dream.
edit: If you are not aware, Tuchel has managed to not win the Bundesliga this year - the first time in what 11-12 seasons for Bayern? And he’s been under heavy fire for both their results and, more importantly, their performances too. Just to temperate your expectations should we sign him.
And he still got fired from the clubs. Why?
Cause Leverkusen is having an all-timer.
Too lazy to check if it is still true, but Tuchel used to have the highest all-time PPG average at Mainz/Dortmund/PSG. He´s just another OCD detail freak like Pep and those tend to perform very well in league competitions, not just cups. Just that Tuchel wears out his welcome faster than Pep. It´s actually kind of amazing how Pep does this, without the players or his bosses ever getting fed up with him. He should have a much shorter shelf life, given his rigid demands and obsessive character.
I get that you want to define a style of football from the top and then build your squad accordingly. That might clash with Tuchel being a pragmatist. At the same time United are such a clusterfeck of a squad that I´d actually see a benefit in bringing in Tuchel, cause to be perfectly honest, with some players at United I have absolutely no clue, if they are good at football or not. There is just no way everybody can be as bad or lazy as ETH makes them look. And if they are Tuchel will let them know.
Get him in
No woman in Manchester will be safe. The rascal.
Clearly it’s badly designed
Every manager is a risk for sure, and ten hag was top of my wish list for sure. You don't know how they'll adapt, if they'll adapt. The thought process into signing Ten Hag was absolutely correct and if stand by that. He did an excellent job with Ajax. But you can't just do the same thing there as you do here.
Tuchel is a proven manager, he's got less risk than anyone. We know he's a very good manager and excellent in the cups. We also know he's not Pep or Klopp level, especially not in the league, we know he's a bit particular in what he expects from a clubs structure. I think it's the perfect time to appoint him, but any hopes of the title realistically start when Pep leaves Man Cty.
I do not think so.
Okay hear me out.
We have always been playing like this. For a very long long time. No real style of play but quick, transition football with individual brilliance sometimes saving us. Even during SAF era. The difference was that we were absolute fighters. Players would go till the last moment and fight. And we have hired some duds now.
And these duds will bring every manager down. That is the pattern speaking, not me personally.
ETH might be out of depth for the squad at expense, but do we let go of the manager or the dodgy players? I would say get the players out of the door first, and then by all means get a suitable manager.
Ah fair enough, I was trying to be smart saying he was just about paying nothing for as a free transfer. Probably being too clever by half, as they say.I've mentioned several times that I don't care if he goes or not. It's in this thread as well, a few replies above.
You labelling players flops after less than even one season in incredibly flawed logic.
I'm not sure you even realize what a "flop" is? You say that Eriksen was "just about" value for free, and somehow he's still a flop?Contradicting yourself there.
Yeah some of the football towards the end of Fergie's time was utterly awful, weren't people on here berating the slow motion zombie passing or something like that?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/static-slow-motion-zombie-passing.357323/
I don’t know what you’ve been watching but none of the previous managers have played with such an open system. This system is setup to fail. This is where everything else starts. Blaming the players all the time does not address the failure of his tactical setups
I would actually go beyond that and say it was awful even during peak year. United team had proper winners, so they wouldn't really need to play some beautiful brand of football. They would get the job done. There were absolute stars in the squad who would show up even if the entire team play is average.
Yes. But can you say with certainty that the current lot of players can punch above their weight? We need to shed players before we shed the manager. That is for sure.
Yet he still won the league. Not the same thing
And tuchels played winning football this season? He’s lost the league to Leverkusen. Got knocked out of the cup to a 3rd division German team. Tuchel won’t be given a chance here if he doesn’t get of to a winning start. And city have a chosen play style, as do Liverpool… which is the reason Liverpool have gone for a manager that’s most similar to Klopp. Do you think city will appoint Ancelotti after Pep? I don’t think so because he won’t fit in the way city want to play so they’ll also find a manager that’s similar to pep. So like I said if Tuchel doesn’t fit what INEOS want then we won’t get him.
It's not an either or. Ten Hag inherited an average squad, added average players, and has been deploying them badly for a season. Hence we're lucky not to be 10th right now.
We’ve already shed lots of players in his 2 years. When is it enough? Maybe we should chuck them all in the bin and give him a brand new squad if 25? What will be the excuse then?
The deadwood bought in 2022 is still at the club?
Without a doubt. It worked, cause squad had winners with mentality. SAF could do the changes at the right time and motivate them. He could make them punch above their weight.
If you are saying ETH is not SAF then I agree.
We need to chuck more. We could have chucked McT and Harry. But we couldnt replace them.
VDB is coming back. Martial is still here.
We signed Eriksen who I believe was a stop gap signing only. Casemiro is one who is a great player, but is getting exposed.
Martinez is good but injured. Malacia okay, but cheap and promising. Rasmus has done well. Antony has been disappointing but wont be selling him just yet.
A lot of the new players haven't been available for big chunks of the season
Onana is the only one that has been available all season out of his signings. Antony is probably the next best for availability. Everyone of the rest have had injury issues.
It's hard for anyone to build a successful side if you can't put your best on the field on a regular or semi regular basis.
This doesn't excuse some mistakes but I think it's unreasonable to just brush over the injury situation completely.
My biggest problem with getting rid of ETH is the alternative options. Tuchel is the best of a bad bunch.
erm… also somehow lost the league at PSG.
Lost the league at Bayern. His one Bayern title was handed to him by Dortmund hitting self destruct on the final day last season.
The main thing is that his league record at every single club since Dortmund gets worse with every season he is there…
- Dortmund. 2nd, 3rd, sacked.
- PsG. 1st, 1st, 2nd at midway (on less ppg than Poch managed), sacked.
- Chelsea. 3rd, feck me season and sacked.
- Bayern. 1st, 2nd, sacked.
His record looks ok because he’s been at 2 clubs where a title is guaranteed although he almost fecked that up for 2 seasons running at Bayern.
At Chelsea his 3rd place finish before the wheels came off was actually preceded by 2 fourth place finishes so he barely improved them before the walls came crumbling down.
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Can Tuchel rebuild a squad like ours, still a huge
rebuilding job? I‘m not sure.
Better to bring him in when we have a good squad in place.
rebuilding job? I‘m not sure.
Better to bring him in when we have a good squad in place.
It's not his job to rebuild the squad, it's the people above him who'd have that task.
I'm not a big fan of his general carry on.
Yes, and is Tuchel the right man to be in charge during that process? I‘m not sure. Look at how he did at Chelsea.
Is anyone really sure yet whether the new regime is looking for a top Manager or a top Coach?
Up to now we have had two of the all time great Managers in Sir Matt and Sir Alex, but neither was a great coach, they found them and installed them alongside; Sir Matt with Jimmy Murphy and Sir Alex with a list of 2nd in commands, starting with Brian Kidd.
The 'noises' from OT at the moment seem to suggest when Sir Jim finally has his team of top business facilitators and finance managers assembled they will be 'the management' and they will employ a top line coach.
Could this be the difference between, say a Tuchel, or an Ancelotti taking over from ETH?
Up to now we have had two of the all time great Managers in Sir Matt and Sir Alex, but neither was a great coach, they found them and installed them alongside; Sir Matt with Jimmy Murphy and Sir Alex with a list of 2nd in commands, starting with Brian Kidd.
The 'noises' from OT at the moment seem to suggest when Sir Jim finally has his team of top business facilitators and finance managers assembled they will be 'the management' and they will employ a top line coach.
Could this be the difference between, say a Tuchel, or an Ancelotti taking over from ETH?
I have read some stupid stuff here thats par for course but this is some next level shit .
We won't compete for anything relevant next year. That's what people need to wrap their head around. We are miles off.
We need to build on the new structure and direction with a proper coach, not a manager who wants to make transfers. As far as options out there go, Tuchel has the best (excellent) credentials precisely as a coach.
The rest of the guff is dealing in hypotheticals. I sure as feck hope Berrada and that lot don't act like Boehly/Hoeness/Leonardo. Tuchel wouldn't be the problem then, the problem would be we just overengineered to end up in the same pile of shite.
His record with Bayern this season is quite good pointswise. Some of you really underrate how good Leverkusen are this season.
And a good day to you too... very insightful and illuminating comments...
I mean Boehly is clearly quite nuts. Seemed like he was waiting for any reason to boot Tuchel out.
I think he is pretty good tactically as a coach. However, I don't think he has a definite way of playing that is dominant or would set us up playing better football. That, I think, is the reason why he didn't really ever look like challenging for the title in England vs doing well in the CL. For me, he is a bit like prime Mourinho in that I'd fancy him to come into a team that's at a high level and then help them win as a result of his tactical prowess, but I don't think he is the right man to come into a struggling club and build a winning team from scratch. I might be totally off but it's just this nagging feeling when it comes to Tuchel
To be fair to him, that was a fair reaction to someone claiming Fergie wasn't a great coach.And a good day to you too... very insightful and illuminating comments...
People love to rewrite history and say that Fergie was just a motivator but not a good tactician when in fact he was both, which was key to his longevity.
He said multiple times how much he likes the PL and that he feels more appreciated in England than in Germany.
I can imagine he would want to join United.
You probably want to do some reading in both before you say things with absolute authority for a start....
When Matt Busby arrived at Old Trafford in October 1945 he introduced the concept of the tracksuit manager.
Before the Second World War managers had largely been distant figures, more comfortable behind a desk, but Busby donned a tracksuit and joined in with his players in every training session.
I don’t like this archetype of experienced manager who’s drifted from club to club.
I’d much prefer the young, hungry manager from a lower league who’s radically outperformed and is given the chance to step up. I think that’s how you find diamonds, even if you end up with duds along the way. Truth is we’ve had plenty of experienced duds lately too.
I’d much prefer the young, hungry manager from a lower league who’s radically outperformed and is given the chance to step up. I think that’s how you find diamonds, even if you end up with duds along the way. Truth is we’ve had plenty of experienced duds lately too.
I think too many of us (me included) got over-excited about bringing in ETH because of his results with Ajax. In hindsight, his 'success' there wasn't quite as grand as we thought, and the standards he's setting here are way below the bar. IMO he's lacking in many areas, eg experience at the highest level, maturity, tactics, flexibility, expectations etc. We've had 3-4 months of decent football under him in 2 years, and it's being getting worse.
Tuchel at least has the experience and maturity to understand the demands of a big club.
Potter and some of the other hipster managers are too risky/unexciting. Southgate could probably handle it and IMO he'd do better than most - maybe not as a title challenger but he'd likely be a step up from where we are now.
If we continue getting the likes of Ashworth and co in place sooner rather than later then we have a football-oriented platform to build on. Tuchel would IMO complement that, maybe not long term, but I think he's got to be on the shortest of shortlists.
Tuchel at least has the experience and maturity to understand the demands of a big club.
Potter and some of the other hipster managers are too risky/unexciting. Southgate could probably handle it and IMO he'd do better than most - maybe not as a title challenger but he'd likely be a step up from where we are now.
If we continue getting the likes of Ashworth and co in place sooner rather than later then we have a football-oriented platform to build on. Tuchel would IMO complement that, maybe not long term, but I think he's got to be on the shortest of shortlists.