Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

Fallon d'Floor

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13 league titles from 16 seasons as a manager is a pretty ridiculous record. Mourinho, Conte and Klopp are the only managers who have won a title while competing against him.

He probably needs to win 1 more CL to really cement his place.

I don't see him managing beyond the age of 60, so he probably only has a few more years left. At club level anyway. I don't even know if he'd want to manage Spain. Catalan.

He's basically the Phil Jackson of football managers. He'll always get the best jobs. But you still have to deliver.
 

Fallon d'Floor

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Tom Van Persie said:
Don't forget the PEDs.
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Rampant in all professional sport. Most professional athletes are taking some type of PED.

You still have to be talented. It's mainly to aid recovery between the games. The schedules are brutal. They wouldn't be needed as much if games were spaced out better.
 

erikcred

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Fallon d'Floor said:
13 league titles from 16 seasons as a manager is a pretty ridiculous record. Mourinho, Conte and Klopp are the only managers who have won a title while competing against him.

He probably needs to win 1 more CL to really cement his place.

I don't see him managing beyond the age of 60, so he probably only has a few more years left. At club level anyway. I don't even know if he'd want to manage Spain. Catalan.

He's basically the Phil Jackson of football managers. He'll always get the best jobs. But you still have to deliver.
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That's another 7 years. He may want to stay at City and go after SAF's record. He's on track for sure.
 

Fallon d'Floor

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erikcred said:
That's another 7 years. He may want to stay at City and go after SAF's record. He's on track for sure.
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Pep has kind of hinted that he'll leave City at the end of his current deal in 2025.

Maybe he'll stay if there's no fallout from the 115 charges. There aren't many other clubs he could go to. A return to Barcelona one day might be a possibility.
 

Changeisgood

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Fallon d'Floor said:
The charges are from 2009-2018, so he'd actually only lose out on a single title.
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Even if they stopped cheating in 2018, which I do not believe, they built their foundation with the cheating. They probably just focussed on early years. Even if they take all their titles away up to 2022, I would be delighted with that.

Of course that would never happen.

They won't do much. Relegation doesn't do much either in any case.
 

SilentWitness

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Fallon d'Floor said:
I'm just saying that the years after 2018 probably won't be impacted.

Only 5 of the current squad were signed before 2018.
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The foundations of the club don't just include players signed though, it goes deeper than that.
 

Fallon d'Floor

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SilentWitness said:
The foundations of the club don't just include players signed though, it goes deeper than that.
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I'm not arguing that though?

I'm pointing out that the charges are from 2009-2018. It's unlikely that they'll impact anything that's happened after that period.

City will likely have to pay some hefty fines and face a transfer ban for 3-4 windows. Who knows though.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Fallon d'Floor said:
I'm just saying that the years after 2018 probably won't be impacted.

Only 5 of the current squad were signed before 2018.
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For now. There was a lot of talk when the original charges were filed that there's likely more charges coming from 2018 onwards.
 

SilentWitness

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Fallon d'Floor said:
I'm not arguing that though?

I'm pointing out that the charges are from 2009-2018. It's unlikely that they'll impact anything that's happened after that period.

City will likely have to pay some hefty fines and face a transfer ban for 3-4 windows. Who knows though.
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I'm saying that they should be impacted though so it does tinge his 'legacy' so to speak in the PL since this thread is about Pep.
 

Changeisgood

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Fines and point deduction does nothing in my opinion. Take away the trophies.

Fines are meaningless as they just simply pay the bill, and any point deduction is very temporary on the current season.

Another one would be the forced sale of the business.
 

Fallon d'Floor

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SilentWitness said:
I'm saying that they should be impacted though so it does tinge his 'legacy' so to speak in the PL since this thread is about Pep.
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There will be question marks. It's a shame for the players, as they actually won those titles and produced some great football.

These things are a lot worse when there's actual evidence of match fixing or PEDS use.

It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
 

The Corinthian

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If City are found guilty, and Barca are found guilty of paying refs off, they should strip everything off them. Even the clothes Pep wears, and any remaining hair follicles.
 

stefan92

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Fallon d'Floor said:
There will be question marks. It's a shame for the players, as they actually won those titles and produced some great football.
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They all know who pays them, it's money from slavers and generally despicable human beings. I don't care how well they played, for that alone I think they deserve to be stripped of their titles.
 

Fallon d'Floor

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stefan92 said:
They all know who pays them, it's money from slavers and generally despicable human beings. I don't care how well they played, for that alone I think they deserve to be stripped of their titles.
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There aren't many owners who aren't dodgy though. Most wealthy individuals have a few skeletons in their closet.

The football industry in general is pretty fecked up. A lot scandals. Some don't make the mainstream.

I take your point though. Some are worse than others. Qatar and Saudi Arabia are among the worst.
 

Zen86

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Fallon d'Floor said:
I'm not arguing that though?

I'm pointing out that the charges are from 2009-2018. It's unlikely that they'll impact anything that's happened after that period.

City will likely have to pay some hefty fines and face a transfer ban for 3-4 windows. Who knows though.
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Depends how it’s viewed. It’s not like cheating to this extent only impacts the years in which it took place.
 

next_number_seven

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He'll never be considered the greatest cos he's never done it with a small club.

Carragher said the same. Fergie's achievement with Aberdeen will top anything Pep does in his career.
 

stefan92

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Fallon d'Floor said:
There aren't many owners who aren't dodgy though. Most wealthy individuals have a few skeletons in their closet.

The football industry in general is pretty fecked up. A lot scandals. Some don't make the mainstream.

I take your point though. Some are worse than others. Qatar and Saudi Arabia are among the worst.
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Which is why clubs shouldn't have owners ;)
 

christinaa

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Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

NO

SAF is the greatest manager of all time - period!
 

Woziak

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christinaa said:
Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

NO

SAF is the greatest manager of all time - period!
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Pep is not wining a domestic or European trophy with Aberdeen Period, many fans forget Sir Alex also won 7 domestic and two European club trophies with Aberdeen.

Beating Madrid in one of those finals was as big as Leicester wining the PL, Pep can’t do it with smaller clubs and with all the resources he’s had, his European record whilst good is not as great as it should have been!

However he’s in the top 3 behind Sir Alex and Ancelotti.
 

christinaa

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Woziak said:
Pep is not wining a domestic or European trophy with Aberdeen Period, many fans forget Sir Alex also won 7 domestic and two European club trophies with Aberdeen.

Beating Madrid in one of those finals was as big as Leicester wining the PL, Pep can’t do it with smaller clubs and with all the resources he’s had, his European record whilst good is not as great as it should have been!

However he’s in the top 3 behind Sir Alex and Ancelotti.
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You explained it so well and you are so right about Pep who always shied away from small clubs.
 

next_number_seven

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Woziak said:
Pep is not wining a domestic or European trophy with Aberdeen Period, many fans forget Sir Alex also won 7 domestic and two European club trophies with Aberdeen.

Beating Madrid in one of those finals was as big as Leicester wining the PL, Pep can’t do it with smaller clubs and with all the resources he’s had, his European record whilst good is not as great as it should have been!

However he’s in the top 3 behind Sir Alex and Ancelotti.
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We can't say Pep can't do it with a smaller clubs cos he's never tried but it's likely to never happen.

He's European record isn't great. 3 CL in 16 years.
2 of those with the greatest club side ever with the greatest player of all time. He inherited most of the team also.

The other with the wealthiest club ever.

So he'll never be considered the greatest.
 

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson

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E-mal said:
Well he has changed the way football is played and many managers have tried to copy or adapted from how he plays. He has also adapted his style of play over the last 20 years.
I can't remember us under Fergie dominating play as much as Pep's team do but their is always a caveat to that.
Fergie also won trophies but you had the sense other teams had a bit of hope against us and we had teams like Blackburn, Arsenal, Chelsea and City under a different manager being able to touch us here and there.
This has been a crushing display from city bar one season from Klopp
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How has he changed it? Copying Spains tactics then demanding WC players regardless of cost

And to your other post (which I couldn’t be arsed to reply to at the time), Fergie won 5 in 6. He was 1st/2nd for almost two decades.

He took a nobody club and broke a two club domination. And won a European trophy.

He took a club that hasnt won a league for 20 years and turned them into a behemoth. And for every dear buy, there was a bargain or youth player.

Pep inherited the strongest squad in the world.

He then moved to the club in a one horse league who’d just won the EC …and never won it.

He then got given the chance to play real life FIFA but with a hack code.

He’s not even close to Ferguson and he’s shied away from any challenge. Never mind Ferguson, he could never do what Clough did.

Not top 5
 
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KeanoMagicHat

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The argument that needs to do it with a small club is kinda a useless point though in the context of Guardiola’s career, at no point does a manager, a player or basically 95% of people in the world job market intentionally choose less prestigious, worst paid jobs for themselves than is available just to prove a point. That includes Ferguson, Mourinho and others. Fergie was hardly going back to Aberdeen in 2010, that’s just how his career went that he built it up from scratch. Guardiola started at Barcelona and immediately got offered top jobs so at no point of his career would it have made sense to go to say Osasuna for much less money and prestige just to prove a point for internet arguments.
 

Theonas

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
How has he changed it? Copying Spains tactics then demanding WC players regardless of cost

And to your other post (which I couldn’t be arsed to reply to at the time), Fergie won 5 in 6. He was 1st/2nd for almost two decades.

He took a nobody club and broke a two club domination. And won a European trophy.

He took a club that hasnt won a league for 20 years and turned them into a behemoth. And for every dear buy, there was a bargain or youth player.

Pep inherited the strongest squad in the world.

He then moved to the club in a one horse league who’d just won the EC …and never won it.

He then got given the chance to play real life FIFA but with a hack code.

He’s not even close to Ferguson and he’s shied away from any challenge. Never mind Ferguson, he could never do what Clough did.

Not top 5
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Do you think all these current managers who reference him and cit his influence are bribed by him? Do you place any value on the fact that your fellow colleagues and professionals rate you? Or do you think they're all just brainwashed?
 

Giggsy13

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I still believe what Mourinho achieved at Porto and at Inter is far more impressive than what Pep has accomplished in his career. Pep always seems to take the path of least resistance and city potentially being convicted of financial doping will forever taint his legacy.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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Desert Eagle said:
Calm down, it's not even close to shameful. Busby is the most famous manager with 5 league titles so they used him, if Pep wins another one it'll be Paisley in the tweet because he has 6 titles.
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Paisley didn't lose several of his players in a plane crash, hence why that wouldn't be shameful.
 

Dannn411

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Fergie at Aberdeen.

Fergie's renaissance between 06 and 13 when everybody and their grandma thought he was done at the top level.

Jose at Porto and Inter.

Wenger's run at Arsenal between 1998 and 2004.

All infinitely greater than what Pep did at either City or Bayern.The only thing Pep has done that is truly legendary is the Barcelona team between 2009 and 2011.
 

GiveItToGi...nowait

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The way he build's a teams defense:

2016-17: John Stones, Oleksandar Zinchenko, Pablo Mari (€58M)

2017-18: Aymeric Laporte, Benjamin Mendy, Danilo, Kyle Walker (€205M)

2018-19: Philippe Sandler, Ko Itakura (€4M)

2019-20: Joao Cancelo, Pedro Porro, Angeliño (€89M)

2020-21: Ruben Dias, Nathan Aké, Issa Kaboré, Yan Couto (€127M)

2022-23: Manuel Akanji, Sergio Gomez (€30M)

2023-24: Joško Gvardiol (€90M)

Pure genius mate.
 

thisisnottaken1

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GiveItToGi...nowait said:
The way he build's a teams defense:

2016-17: John Stones, Oleksandar Zinchenko, Pablo Mari (€58M)

2017-18: Aymeric Laporte, Benjamin Mendy, Danilo, Kyle Walker (€205M)

2018-19: Philippe Sandler, Ko Itakura (€4M)

2019-20: Joao Cancelo, Pedro Porro, Angeliño (€89M)

2020-21: Ruben Dias, Nathan Aké, Issa Kaboré, Yan Couto (€127M)

2022-23: Manuel Akanji, Sergio Gomez (€30M)

2023-24: Joško Gvardiol (€90M)

Pure genius mate.
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I didn’t know that Mari or Porro played for Man City. A lot of the other names I’ve never heard of as well.
 

lex talionis

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The outrageous cheating casts a huge cloud over Pep, but apart from that he was handed outrageous talents at Barcelona and Bayern.

Ferguson built United out of rubble. And his accomplishment with Aberdeen is something Pep never did.
 

Oranges038

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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
How has he changed it? Copying Spains tactics then demanding WC players regardless of cost

And to your other post (which I couldn’t be arsed to reply to at the time), Fergie won 5 in 6. He was 1st/2nd for almost two decades.

He took a nobody club and broke a two club domination. And won a European trophy.

He took a club that hasnt won a league for 20 years and turned them into a behemoth. And for every dear buy, there was a bargain or youth player.

Pep inherited the strongest squad in the world.

He then moved to the club in a one horse league who’d just won the EC …and never won it.

He then got given the chance to play real life FIFA but with a hack code.

He’s not even close to Ferguson and he’s shied away from any challenge. Never mind Ferguson, he could never do what Clough did.

Not top 5
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He basically just stole Cruyff's play book and at City he's had a blank cheque book to shape it to perfection.
 
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