£150 million pounds worth of defenders...

[Pogue Mahone]

...available for selection but not deemed good enough to start in our biggest game of the season. Instead we went with four defenders who were a) here when Fergie was in charge, and b) were considered a significant downgrade on our previous defenders at that time.

Think about that for a moment. That’s an average of £37.5m invested in each position of a back four (and with the likes of Keane, Evans, Tuanzebe and Fosuh-Mensah coming through we did have decent squad options, had the investment been more focussed).

Only five defenders in the history of football have cost more than £37.5m, yet all of our investment didn’t result in a single starter in the FA Cup Final!

Even if you think the dividing the investment by four is unfair, the individual fees are still outrageous.

Rojo = £18m
Shaw = £34m
Blind = £16m
Darmian = £16m
Bailly = £34m
Lindelof = £32m

Three players on that list would break the record for the most expensive defender ever signed by any Spanish or German club.

I think it’s fair to say these figures sum up the horrific transfer “strategy” we’ve pursued since Fergie retired. Can anyone convince me we can’t expect more of the same for the forseeable future?

 

[Pexbo]

...available for selection but not deemed good enough to start in our biggest game of the season. Instead we went with four defenders who were a) here when Fergie was in charge, and b) were considered a significant downgrade on our previous defenders at that time.

Think about that for a moment. That’s an average of £37.5m invested in each position of a back four (and with the likes of Keane, Evans, Tuanzebe and Fosuh-Mensah coming through we did have decent squad options, had the investment been more focussed).

Only five defenders in the history of football have cost more than £37.5m

Even if you think the dividing the investment by four is unfair, the individual fees are still outrageous.

Rojo = £18m
Shaw = £34m
Blind = £16m
Darmian = £16m
Bailly = £34m
Lindelof = £32m

Three players on that list would break the record for the most expensive defender ever signed by any Spanish or German club.

I think it’s fair to say these figures sum up the horrific transfer “strategy” we’ve pursued since Fergie retired. Can anyone convince me we can’t expect more of the same for the forseeable future?

The two most expensive are still young, relatively new and could come good to be fair. They’re having the same development process Fergie afforded Smalling and Jones.

The other four are Van Gaal signings and three will almost certainly be sold in the summer.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Startling definitely.

Just everything about the club post-SAF is an inability to succeed in almost every department.

Our transfer success since SAF is probably the worst out of any big European team.

Zero title challenges.

No good CL run.

Plenty of bad records broken.

Though Jose has stabilized us somewhat, even he can't get us back to the top of English football.

 

[VorZakone]

Startling definitely.

Just everything about the club post-SAF is an inability to succeed in almost every department.

Our transfer success since SAF is probably the worst out of any big European team.

Zero title challenges.

No good CL run.

Plenty of bad records broken.

Though Jose has stabilized us somewhat, even he can't get us back to the top of English football.

#2 in the league is not 'top of English football' ?

 

[Skills]

#2 in the league is not 'top of English football' ?

Not when you're 20 points behind top spot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Startling definitely.

Just everything about the club post-SAF is an inability to succeed in almost every department.

Our transfer success since SAF is probably the worst out of any big European team.

Zero title challenges.

No good CL run.

Plenty of bad records broken.

Though Jose has stabilized us somewhat, even he can't get us back to the top of English football.

And yet Woodward’s job is secure because the club is making loads of money. Miles off the pace amongst Europeans elite but extremely profitable. All feels a bit Arsenal.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

#2 in the league is not 'top of English football' ?

The top of English football to me is challenging for league titles year in and year out and winning a few.

We've not challenged for the league in 5 years. And not only that, but every season we've been out of the race by Christmas! I mean it's absurd.

We need to get back to challenging for the league, because I think the club desperately needs it and we need to win 1 soon. The longer it drags on...

 

[Skills]

And yet Woodward’s job is secure because the club is making loads of money. Miles off the pace amongst Europeans elite but extremely profitable. All feels a bit Arsenal.

Shouldn't it be? We must be the only club after its CEO's head

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

And yet Woodward’s job is secure because the club is making loads of money. Miles off the pace amongst Europeans elite but extremely profitable. All feels a bit Arsenal.

I do wonder if the club's ambitions match our fans. Like what if top 4 and all is all good for Woodward.

Not securing CL football has seen 2 managers axed only when it was impossible to secure CL football, despite the warning signs being there during their seasons.

Maybe Woodward only cares about the commercial aspect. A lot of our signings seem to lack any thinking behind it from a football point of view.

And if top 4 is enough for the club to be financially successful, then are we indeed Arsenal 2.0?

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I don’t think you get a starting 11 player for under £20m any more, so not surprised that Blind, Darmien and Rojo are squad players.

We presumably had much higher hopes for Shaw, Bailey and Lindelof. None of them looks particularly great, but I think Bailey has something about him.

 

[VivaObertan]

What a weird thread. We had £150m worth of attackers, Mata, Lukaku and Martial on the bench who didn't play either. Your example doesn't highlight a poor transfer strategy, but more shows we're now seeing the effects of Ferguson's lack of planning and reliance on all his star players being over 26-27. (Evra, Rio, Vidic, Valencia, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Rooney, RVP... probably some others I missed out).

Shaw was worth the money paid, at the time.
Rojo was/is worth the money paid, at the time.
Blind was/is worth the money paid, at the time.
Darmian was worth the money paid, at the time.
Bailly & Lindelof, who knows.

I kind of see your point but I think in football you need continuity. Something I've realised is that the players Man City have managed to keep are Kompany, Toure, Fernandinho, Silva, Aguero... same with Real Madrid; Marcelo, Ramos, Kroos, Modric, Ronaldo, Benzema - ours are DDG, Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, Carrick and Rooney until last year.

 

[Wumminator]

Blind and Rojo for the price have done a decent job IMO.

Shaw looks decent. I don’t know what’s happened there.

The others are poor signings right now. I have no idea why people seem to rate Bailly so highly, he’s deservedly below Jones and Smalling IMO.

 

[Treble]

Basically, Jose has admitted that Bailly and Lindelof haven't been great signings. Yes, they are young. But why buy them for 30 plus millions and not start them?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Blind and Rojo for the price have done a decent job IMO.

Shaw looks decent. I don’t know what’s happened there.

The others are poor signings right now. I have no idea why people seem to rate Bailly so highly, he’s deservedly below Jones and Smalling IMO.

I know you’re still desperately clinging to the delusion that Mourinho’s the only manager who’s been a poor appointment since Fergie retired but Rojo, Blind and Shaw all demonstrated the flaws that have seen them marginalised long before our current manager took over.

 

[settembrini]

The people I know in real life who waste the most money are the children of the wealthy and our transfer policy reminds me of their shopping habits. Ferguson is the patriarch who made us rich. Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho are the children who luck into a massive inheritance and then buy a load of expensive toys they don't need.

 

[JPRouve]

Basically, Jose has admitted that Bailly and Lindelof haven't been great signings. Yes, they are young. But why buy them for 30 plus millions and not start them?

Objectively neither are better than Jones, Smalling and Rojo. I know that it's not in vogue to not lambast our defenders but the only time they actually disappoint is when they are left absolutely alone in situations where every player on earth is at a disadvantage like Jones in 1v1 against Hazard. As a group they are fine and the job of a manager is to make the group coherent and solid which to Mourinho's credit is exactly what he did with this defense. So my point is that Lindelof and Bailly weren't necessary particularly when they are not at their peak and aren't really better than what we have, both are two young defenders with pretty good potential.

 

[Camilo]

I think we could've started shaw, Bailly, lindelof and darmian yesterday, and it wouldn't have made any difference.

The way we play is the problem, not the personnel. Not every transfer works out, but you'd be hard pushed to say any of our defensive signings have been poor. Rather I think it's more a reflection of the quality (at CB at least) we already had.

 

[Skills]

Objectively neither are better than Jones, Smalling and Rojo. I know that it's not in vogue to not lambast our defenders but the only time they actually disappoint is when they are left absolutely alone in situations where every player on earth is at a disadvantage like Jones in 1v1 against Hazard. As a group they are fine and the job of a manager is to make the group coherent and solid which to Mourinho's credit is exactly what he did with this defense. So my point is that Lindelof and Bailly weren't necessary particularly when they are not at their peak and aren't really better than what we have, both are two young defenders with pretty good potential.

I'll be surprised if Lindelof ever becomes better than Smalling or Jones. Bailly potentially can, but he's poor aerially. And that's a pretty big target on your back as a CB.

 

[Wumminator]

I know you’re still desperately clinging to the delusion that Mourinho’s the only manager who’s been a poor appointment since Fergie retired but Rojo, Blind and Shaw all demonstrated the flaws that have seen them marginalised long before our current manager took over.

I have not and will not ever hold that position. I just think Mourinho’s done a poor job. Something you used to lambast me for and now seem to agree with. So you’ve now tried to change what my stance is.

 

[bazalini]

when Eric Bailey was signed - you' swear we had signed the Messi of defending by the talk on here.

what has he done???

 

[Leftback99]

LVG was a disaster in the transfer market with players bought and sold. Rojo was a terrible signing in particular, bought because of his obsession with left footed centre backs, £18m plus a free loan of Nani and then he complained he had no pace and creativity on the wings. The less said about Darmian the better.

Worryingly Mourinho's defensive signings have been no better. Bailly has some decent attributes but the Lindelof signing is baffling.

We wouldn't be worse off if we had just kept Evans, Keane and Rafael and signed no one.

 

[cyberman]

Are you sure you haven't confused Euros with Pounds with Bailly and Lindelofs fees? I'm pretty sure both are bang on 30m?

Combined less than VVD, both less than Mustafi, Less than Luiz, don't even mention Citys signings.

Shaw is the transfer that stands out to me.

 

[spiriticon]

What has happened to Eric Bailly? Did he poke Jose in the eyes or something?

 

[kouroux]

The club is badly run that is for sure. We buy players expensively and most of them turn out to be bad transfers, it happens onna consistent basis then something is really effed up in the global transfer strategy (if we even have one)

 

[Bojan11]

LVG was a disaster in the transfer market with players bought and sold. Rojo was a terrible signing in particular, bought because of his obsession with left footed centre backs, £18m plus a free loan of Nani and then he complained he had no pace and creativity on the wings. The less said about Darmian the better.

Worryingly Mourinho's defensive signings have been no better. Bailly has some decent attributes but the Lindelof signing is baffling.

We wouldn't be worse off if we had just kept Evans, Keane and Rafael and signed no one.

Have you seen Michael Keane play for Everton?

Evans was a train wreck in his final season for us. You’d think he of all defenders would be suited to Van Gaals system because he was decent on the ball.

To be fair you have the back 4/DDG and then Lingard/Rashford.

So where the feck has all the money gone?

 

[FootyGirl88]

Blind was never brought in to be a defender if I remember correctly. LVG bought him to play in midfield as a DM, but that idea went quickly out the window.

 

[fergieisold]

Bailly? Am I missing something here, I thought he'd been injured? Whenever I've seen him play he's looked like a phenomenal talent!

 

[Romez]

We need a Director of Football so we don’t waste money like LVG did.

Most of his signings have been garbage and probably wont be here next season.

 

[VP89]

It's in part due to the frequent change in managers.

Mourinho only bought Lindelof and Bailey. I don't care about him not starting players he didn't buy in the first place. He's going to go out this summer and reportedly get his own men for the back line and then we can have a moan about him not starting say, Sandro or Toby or whoever it may be, IF it happens.

 

[FreakyJim]

The club is badly run that is for sure. We buy players expensively and most of them turn out to be bad transfers, it happens onna consistent basis then something is really effed up in the global transfer strategy (if we even have one)

spoiler - we don't

 

[Castia]

It’s shocking isn’t it.

We’ve spent a fortune on 2 CB’s in the last 2 summer windows and neither are getting into the team for one reason or another.

You can see why we’re linked with Alderweireld rather than a youngster like De Ligt it’s because we need a guaranteed starter, we’re not in a position to bed in another defender.

For what it’s worth I think we have 2 very good defenders in Bailly and Rojo but fitness seems to be a major issue.

 

[Smores]

Better than him starting only the players he signed out of pure stubbornness. Apart from our fullbacks i don't think our defence is that bad

 

[VP89]

Better than him starting only the players he signed out of pure stubbornness. Apart from our fullbacks i don't think our defence is that bad

This.

 

[kouroux]

spoiler - we don't

We may just do, we have a quota on transfers and that money has to be spent somehow

 

[settembrini]

Bailly? Am I missing something here, I thought he'd been injured? Whenever I've seen him play he's looked like a phenomenal talent!

He's been fit for a long time. Mourinho claimed he wasn't being picked because he wasn't going to the WC, which is obviously ludicrous.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I have not and will not ever hold that position. I just think Mourinho’s done a poor job. Something you used to lambast me for and now seem to agree with. So you’ve now tried to change what my stance is.

I’m coming round to the idea that Mourinho’s the wrong man for the job. Of course this is far less certain and obvious than Moyes and Van Gaal’s incompetence when you were still cheer-leading the pair of them.

 

[Acole9]

when Eric Bailey was signed - you' swear we had signed the Messi of defending by the talk on here.

what has he done???

He's done nothing, our fan base just got giddy because he's not limited like all the other defenders we've got. He is the best that we have though.

 

[Revaulx]

I do wonder if the club's ambitions match our fans. Like what if top 4 and all is all good for Woodward.

Not securing CL football has seen 2 managers axed only when it was impossible to secure CL football, despite the warning signs being there during their seasons.

Maybe Woodward only cares about the commercial aspect. A lot of our signings seem to lack any thinking behind it from a football point of view.

And if top 4 is enough for the club to be financially successful, then are we indeed Arsenal 2.0?

You are absolutely right. The first sign of this was the appointment of Moyes, who I’m sure was brought in on the basis that if he could consistently hit fifth or sixth while spending hardly anything at Everton, he could get a couple of places higher at United with a bit more money at his disposal.

The irony is that we’ve still ended up outspending all but one other club.

 

[Canagel]

Amazing. I was just saying this to a friend of mine. We could sign Alderweireld and Bonucci tomorrow and somehow Jones and Smalling would still be playing next season. This current generation of defenders have been failing for the last 4/5 years and next season we will go into the season with excitement only to be let down again. At this point they are wasting our time. The signings have been average but what's the point in buying them if you aren't going to use them?
LVG made terrible signings but after two years we haven't cleared them out yet. It's his fault for bringing them here but it's not his fault they are still here. At some point you have to look at Mourinho as well. We already have indication that Young isn't going anywhere and might play 50 games again next season. Valencia probably the same. Smalling will still be here and then he'll complain about not having enough money to compete with City. Just clear them out. From top to bottom the entire defence needs to be revamped.

 

[el3mel]

Pretty underwhelming. All this money spent on players and managers and we're still playing with Young,Valencia, Jones and Lingard in the main lineup. It's like we aren't moving any forward despite all the money spent.