Argentina 1978 (25.7), Italy 2006 (29.6), Brazil 1962 (30.7).
It totally depends on how well you look after yourself and if you manage to avoid many serious injuries, Ronaldo is still performing at a the same level and will do for more years I'm sure (starting Saturday week) He never really had many major issues with injuries which is a mixture of luck and preparing himself in the right way. Giggs was the same and he was in his 40s when he retired.
Agreed. There will always be notable exceptions of players getting a bit too comfortable earlier (Ando for instance) and those who show incredible passion later; but all in all, the players who are hungrier, more creative, and have a more intense desire to succeed are (imo) more in the younger category.
I think it depends on the player.
Some 33/34 year olds have transformed sides, even back in 60's/70's eg Dave Mackay at Derby. Maldini and Giggs were unbelievable in their late 30's and you could also talk about so many others.
If the player is top class and can read the game then they should be able to make a difference to most sides regardless of age. Some players seem to just burn out. Maybe it's all to do with personality and drive??
I think all people, not just players peak mentally and physically at different times. Everyone is different lol.
Some 33/34 year olds have transformed sides, even back in 60's/70's eg Dave Mackay at Derby. Maldini and Giggs were unbelievable in their late 30's and you could also talk about so many others.
If the player is top class and can read the game then they should be able to make a difference to most sides regardless of age. Some players seem to just burn out. Maybe it's all to do with personality and drive??
I think all people, not just players peak mentally and physically at different times. Everyone is different lol.
Lingard is 27 next year. That's nearly 29. So basically he's the same age as Willian.
I agree with all of this. I think it’s time to demand more is basically what I’m saying. How you actually go about that I don’t know, but with the right commitment and desire these players should be lasting longer and a debate about whether it’s worth signing a world class 29 year old shouldn’t exist because he’s about to decline.
I don't think signing players that age in isolation is a bad thing, but having a good number of players that age in the squad is risky business.
Our double winning team all our key players were 28-32 and the following season most of them hit a serious decline and it put us right in the shit (although Carlo's tactics didn't help), with 1-2 players you can work around it if they do hit father time suddenly but it is risky being reliant on a high or even highish number of players that age.
Our double winning team all our key players were 28-32 and the following season most of them hit a serious decline and it put us right in the shit (although Carlo's tactics didn't help), with 1-2 players you can work around it if they do hit father time suddenly but it is risky being reliant on a high or even highish number of players that age.
We had a poster called 'don't sign old players', he must have been a bit of a tosser because he got banned, but I liked his username.
I agree with the general point about managing the ages of a squad, of course you wouldn't want several players hitting 32 at the same time and having to replace them all. However can we really say that about our squad at the moment? From my point of view we have a good range of ages in terms of two year bands for the purposes of squad management. Assuming Blind, Darmian & Fellaini leave, going into next season we'll have:
32+ = Young / Valencia
30-31 = Matic / Mata / Willian
28-29 = Sanchez / Smalling / Herrera / Alderweireld
27 - 28 = De Gea / Rojo / Sandro
25 - 26 = Jones / Pogba / Lukaku / Lingard / Fred
23 - 24 - Lindelof / Bailly / SMS
Under 23 - Martial / Rashford / Shaw / McTominay
I'd say that we have a very well balanced squad and that if this Summer we signed the four players we've been most heavily linked with (for example Alderweireld, Fred, Sandro and Milinković-Savić) then the squad would still be very well balanced from an age point of view.
Even adding Willian to the equation there still isn't a group of players I can see that would be irreplaceable in the two year period we would have to replace them.
Replacing Matic, Mata and Willian between 2019-2020 wouldn't worry me and replacing Sanchez, Smalling, Herrera & Alderweireld 2021 - 2022 also wouldn't, particularly if the likes of Rashford, Martial, Bailly and Lindelof improve as we all hope they will.
TL;DR If we bought 5 players who were all 29+ of course we should question the managers judgment. But buying another one or two would in fact be good squad management, particularly to replace the experience we've lost or will be losing in Carrick, Rooney, Valencia & Young.
I am thinking like Park Ji Sung, Gennaro Gattuso and players like that - “true” defensive midfielders who chase the ball down all game not deep lying midfielders like Pirlo etc.
Don't think that's how it works. When City started their project, they didn't go out and buy senior players to compete with a Man Utd full of senior elite players. They bought star young players in Kompany, Aguero and Silva. Their senior player at the time was Yaya Toure who was 27 at the time. That's an example of building a project.
Most psychologists now advocate the age range for child psychology to work from 0-25 as opposed to the way it used to be (0-18). So our adolescence is lasting longer and our concious minds take longer to fully develop too. This science should make physical peaks for professional athletes last that little bit longer.
It has to be a desire and a money thing. I bet you if there were performanced based salaries as opposed to guaranteed amounts, you’d see the range of a players peak broaden quite substantially. What we need is a culture where players don’t feel comfortable relaxing in their 30s and feel obligated to do the things their body is capable of.
What does that have to do with what Mourinho inherited and what is expected of him RIGHT NOW? People want us to compete with a City squad which has been built over several years with a squad who's older players were Carrick, Rooney and Valencia? How does this compare to Kompany, Aguero, Silva?
You cannot expect us to just not sign players of guaranteed quality when we are up against this City side. People are living in dreamland.
It's a totally valid statement/query, unless it's a goalkeeper.
Majority of players decline in their early 30's, so it's understandable people will be skeptical about signing a player who is in and around 30, specially if they're costing a lot of money.
Majority of players decline in their early 30's, so it's understandable people will be skeptical about signing a player who is in and around 30, specially if they're costing a lot of money.
I really hope someone wont spin this 29 thing in how we must have 29-33 year old players to win a title, no time for potential and all that bullshit like thats the only way to win a title.
We aren't just buying older players though. You say we should be looking to buy players who will be here for a decade, but realistically how often does that happen? What's the average length a player stays at a club, 4 years? If that.
This.
How often does it happen ? Let's see..... Carrick, Evra, Ferdinand, Rooney, Valencia, Vidic, Evans, Smalling, JoS, et al have in the past decade been with us for anywhere between 8 and 13 years. That's the sort of profile we want and is why as I said, we have to be more judicious and comprehensive about investing in younger to mid twenties type players.
To be fair. 50% of our signins since Jose have been long term. Bailly Lindelof Pogba and Lukaku
Definitely agree. The older players have largely been one offs. I'm sure our transfers will stablize a bit as we get more managerial continuity here. The constant switching between Fergie to Moyes to LvG to Jose has caused a lot of transfer turbulence.
I was debunking your theory that Man City has great older players so we should also buy some in order to compete. No we shouldn't. We have to buy established players who have gas left in their tank, aka Paul Pogba, Bailly, Lukaku, Herrera.
Unless you're talking about a freak like Zlatan who was still hitting his peak at 30, experienced players we buy should still be a couple of years from their 30s.
Ramos is 32. Modric nearly 33. Ronaldo 33. Last four seasons they are surely in decline. Couple of champions leagues, domestic titles, in best fifa team 3 years in a row but nothing else.
But on a serious note. Some players decline quicker some not. If player is true professional who has that raw football desire to win and who was injury free whole career, he can play on highest level when he enters in his 30s. But players who just want new and last big contract and are not 100% in football anymore then decline is quick.
But on a serious note. Some players decline quicker some not. If player is true professional who has that raw football desire to win and who was injury free whole career, he can play on highest level when he enters in his 30s. But players who just want new and last big contract and are not 100% in football anymore then decline is quick.
Remember when we were linked with Matic and the Caf 'experts' told us he was in an irreversible decline?
http://www.espn.com/soccer/blog/tac...goalkeepers-and-central-defenders-peak-latest
I’m neither for or against. But I do think that lack of remaining years should reflect the price tag. Furthermore, a healthy balance in the squad is important.
I’m neither for or against. But I do think that lack of remaining years should reflect the price tag. Furthermore, a healthy balance in the squad is important.
I’m just being cynical
I am going to beat the same old drum, but what were the ages of those players when Real Madrid bought them? Can you give me an example of a 30 year old that Real bought for their first team in recent past?
Interesting. I would thought overall it would skew upwards. Experience is a huge benefit at World Cups
Our CB ages when next season starts.
Lindelof 24
Bailly 24
Rojo 28
Jones 26
Smalling 28
I supposed if we sign Alderweireld if means one of the above will be sold. Even if its Lindelof that's move on it's not as if our CB will be ancient.
Lindelof 24
Bailly 24
Rojo 28
Jones 26
Smalling 28
I supposed if we sign Alderweireld if means one of the above will be sold. Even if its Lindelof that's move on it's not as if our CB will be ancient.
We should be buying quality. Full stop.
it really should be taken on a case by case basis.. things like body type, mileage, and injury history should be considered when a player is near 30. anyone who was blessed with the miracle of sight could have worked out Rooney would decline faster than say a ronaldo.
The issue that concerns me about sanchez is the mileage. not only is he plays football at a 100 miles an hour, but he rarely has taken breaks in the summer. nevertheless, he clearly takes care of his body and looks like he has the physique that will let him stay at the top for longer, just like ronaldo.
an extra point, players who rely on certain attributes that are inversely proportional to age, like speed, will have their performance affected more.
As I said at the start, it depends on the individual player, it cant be a blanket statement referring to every footballer.
People are too obsessed with replicating their FM saves and building a team of 20 year olds and dominating forever. In the real world you need older players for leadership and experience.
Now list all the players that haven’t lasted that long, and then compare that list to every other team in the league. You’ll find your list will dwarf in comparison. Even in 2011 our average length of service was less than 6 years, and that made us an outlier within the league. Jose has signed Lukaku, Pogba, Bailly who fit your profile. DDG is likely to get there, as is Lingard and Rashford has every chance to get there too. Signing 29 years olds doesn’t mean we aren’t going to be looking at the next big thing.
It’s easier to buy younger players when you ALREADY have quality. What do you not get about that? You want us to be at the level of Real Madrid then we need quality players regardless of age. When Pogba and Lukaku hit 28+ then we can say we have quality older players and need to add younger players. Right now the squad is not good enough and we need to add quality.
Those same things also would help younger players.
Its not a matter of comparing between the two - its more so to illustrate that the core of our success has been built around players who have stayed with us for many years. We need to get back to building the spine of the club around a new group.
It shows that position and roster matter. Signing a 32 year old Godin would be great for example, as it would let Bailly and Lindelof compete to start next to him for a couple years then hopefully they can form a partnership when he leaves (with some experience having done so when Godin is hurt, suspended or rested) or becomes a backup or we'll just have to sign a replacement in 2 seasons. And we could pay for a good chunk of his fee by selling off Smalling or Jones.
Whereas signing a 29 year old Willian makes no real sense unless we think one of Martial, Chong or Rashford will be a star RW in a couple years and just want to get solid production with no upside of star play there for a year or two. And we'd be selling Martial to do it?
Lukaku, Pogba and Bailly is a spine.
Uh no. We struggled after SAF is due to mismanagement of the next managers, not due to SAF's. Those same ageing players won us the league and challenge year in year out under SAF. It's not couple of them but almost key positions. And we're not alone. Age is just numbers, players peak at different time. Management is to arrange so there is the right balance when players hitting their good years and make a team to challenge.