“We need better players....”

van Nistelrooy

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Mourinho is just one part of the problem. The rest is down to our hierarchy and the PLAYERS!

No disrespect to Brighton as they did play well today, but we should be able to throw our 'stars' on to the pitch without any input from a manager and match them. It's not Mourinho's fault that we can't string a pass together. It's not Mourinho's fault that Bailly plays reckless and dives in. It's not Mourinho's fault that Pogba overplays everything.
 

The United

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Jose signed 2 CBs and after 2 seasons, it was decided they were shit. So he wanted more. It is really hard to blame whoever thinks he will probably sign another and call him shit after a season. I certainly don't have much faith in his transfers with us.

Speaking of it, it is not just CBs either. Almost over half of his signings are/were not up to the standard to his or ours anyway.
 

Enigma_87

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Then give the fans what they want. Is it ZZ? Personally I don’t think he’ll be the answer but I’m confident the players would get more flak under him if they didn’t perform as he’s just won 3 CLs...wouldn’t be all that surprised if fans said “but that was 2 years ago football has moved on”...mind
Awful practice. Worse than what Ed is doing on the footballing side.
 

Enigma_87

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Atletico are able to attack. While Simeone is not the most attacking coach and we can agree on this, his team does have a plan for how to attack each team they are up against. And Atletico does not solely rely on counter/mistakes/coincidence for scoring goals like we do now. It is only in crucial matches against top teams that he is so extremely defensive/pragamatic in his approach. Also the players at Atletico has improved/developed over the years, while our players has not(bar Lingard). So i would not be disappointed if we were to appoint Simeone, and he has become more attacking in the last two season compared to how they were 4 years ago.

Conte, similar to Simeone and JM focused a lot on defense, but he also had a plan for how to attack. He also had Kante and Hazard in form.
Not saying they aren't. My point is it's either or at this point. We can't realistically expect we can get titles and exciting football to boot at the same time.
 

RedorDead21

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Awful practice. Worse than what Ed is doing on the footballing side.
Not reallly when fans dislike a manager it always ends badly
 

Andycoleno9

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Jose is guilty for some things but if we leave that out of this thread, the fact is that we really need better players. We are full of players who are just not good enough for man utd. Caf is always waiting for some players to become world class but it will not happen. Football is not working like that.
Jones and smalling are that what you see. Average defenders. Lindelof and bailly the same. They will not suddenly become world class defenders if zidane or poch or guardiola come here. Young is finished. Mata is finished. Lingard is hard working player. Not some class player and certainly he is not quality for first 11 of man utd. Rashford is not new boy wonder. He is here 4 seasons already and plays the same like in first season. He can be slight better but player for first 11? I doubt it. Martial is not new robben. Shaw is not kyle walker level.

We needed at least 3 class players this transfer window. We fecked it up.
 

RedorDead21

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Jose signed 2 CBs and after 2 seasons, it was decided they were shit. So he wanted more. It is really hard to blame whoever thinks he will probably sign another and call him shit after a season. I certainly don't have much faith in his transfers with us.

Speaking of it, it is not just CBs either. Almost over half of his signings are/were not up to the standard to his or ours anyway.
Does Lindelof look like
A Jose signing to anyone? Just doesn’t look anything like his type of CB
 

Backrow Singer

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For me, there are too many players in the squad who lack the ability to execute and react to what’s in front of them. We have too many players who are too wasteful with the football and aren’t consistent enough with their decision making. Martial, Rashford, Young, Pogba, Valencia, even Lakaku at times. Poor crosses, poor final ball. Rashford hit his own leg with a cross today.

I end up making a prat of myself in frustration at least twice a game when those blokes are on the pitch. Give the ball away too easily, too consistently and it makes it really difficult.

Add that to the defensive mistakes today and you get a result like that, 3-2 via a penalty.
 

MoskvaRed

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Jose is guilty for some things but if we leave that out of this thread, the fact is that we really need better players. We are full of players who are just not good enough for man utd. Caf is always waiting for some players to become world class but it will not happen. Football is not working like that.
Jones and smalling are that what you see. Average defenders. Lindelof and bailly the same. They will not suddenly become world class defenders if zidane or poch or guardiola come here. Young is finished. Mata is finished. Lingard is hard working player. Not some class player and certainly he is not quality for first 11 of man utd. Rashford is not new boy wonder. He is here 4 seasons already and plays the same like in first season. He can be slight better but player for first 11? I doubt it. Martial is not new robben. Shaw is not kyle walker level.

We needed at least 3 class players this transfer window. We fecked it up.
It’s not May 2016 anymore. Half the outfield players today were Jose buys - Bailly, Lindelöf, Pogba, Fred, Lukaku. Three of them were dreadful and the other two average. Sanchez would have made it 6 had he been fit and he has been appalling so far. Why would you entrust another 200m to Mourinho if he can’t get the players he has brought in to perform?
 

Stubble

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A RW and and experienced CB would have been very useful this window but generally no we do not need better players to be a hell of a lot better than we are. Do Brighton have better players ? - of course not ! yet they have a system and gave us a good going over. All the other top teams seem to have a strategy they play to - what is ours ? - defend deep give up possession and hit on the counter ??, if so we are pretty crap at both - defensively vunerable and lethargic and ponderous with a total lack on invention in attack. We look like a team of strangers most of the time and because we don't seem to have a proper consistent attacking strategy slotting in the squad players makes us even more disjointed whilst Pool and City do this with ease. This has to be the coaching pure and simple either a lack of it or inadequate quality , thats on the manager for me.
 

The Firestarter

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Seven ManUTD players were in the fecking world cup semifinals . I'd say that's pretty sufficient to beat the mighty side of Brighton. Jose's shit on a stick football is sucking the enjoyment for the game out of every player and fan at the moment.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Atletico are able to attack. While Simeone is not the most attacking coach and we can agree on this, his team does have a plan for how to attack each team they are up against. And Atletico does not solely rely on counter/mistakes/coincidence for scoring goals like we do now. It is only in crucial matches against top teams that he is so extremely defensive/pragamatic in his approach. Also the players at Atletico has improved/developed over the years, while our players has not(bar Lingard). So i would not be disappointed if we were to appoint Simeone, and he has become more attacking in the last two season compared to how they were 4 years ago.

Conte, similar to Simeone and JM focused a lot on defense, but he also had a plan for how to attack. He also had Kante and Hazard in form.
I wouldn't like Simeone, but he definitely gets the utmost max of his team. And when they're on the ball, you see patterns and synergy in their play.

And he attacked far more than Jose did when the two collided in the 2014 CL semi-finals.
 

Jippy

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It’s not so much worse players as it is players who aren’t known as superstars but can be counted on to put a shift in and come up with brilliance every once in a while.

Frankly United would be better off without Pogba and having Pjanic/Witsel or some other combination. Sure Pogba can do some amazing things but he’s never going to be confused for someone that going to leave blood sweat and tears on the pitch week in and week out.

Great teams have both the grinders and the stars, can’t win consistently without both.
Agree entirely. We need Matic back, not that his return will solve all problems.
 

anant

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"Better players" argument is one of the worst arguments being given to defend Mourinho right now. We used 5 different attacking players in the game (and that is excluding Pogba and Fellaini)- not a single one of them had even a decent game by any standards. None of them seemed to be on the same page. Had it been 1 player having a bad day and we lost 1-0, it can be put down to a bad day at office but all 14 players having been poor is unlikely.
We just don't have a game plan going forward, something we had even in LVG's 2nd season and that is concerning!
The fact that we can't classify our attacking play into any segment (long ball, counter attacking, fast/slow passing,etc.) even after 2 seasons of Mou's tenure surely is a damning indication like it or not.
And saying that we needed Matic/XYZ player or 2 more signings would have been relevant had we lost to a top 6 team not a side that was promoted just last season
 

anant

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Does Lindelof look like
A Jose signing to anyone? Just doesn’t look anything like his type of CB
Duncan Castles, Sam Luckhurst and a few other journos tweeted saying that we had earmarked him as our potential next signing in Dec itself. When he was signed, literally every single supporter and journo were praising Mou and saying that he has a stronghold of Portugal more than any other manager and how his contacts in Portugal made it all possible. Now that he hasn't been overly successful, it is no longer his signing!
 

Kapardin

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He may need better players against City or some European giant, but not against Brighton.

Either take us down quickly or punch above your weight and get us competing. I detest this middling crap where we do just enough to drag ourselves to CL spots and set up boring season after boring season.
 

Robbyb03

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Our tactics are horrendous. No team is afraid of us and they know if they play aggressive and keep us in our half, they can scrap out a result. We need to change our formation and push forward and attack teams versus sitting back and hoping for a 1-0 result.
 

RedDevil5

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Let's be honest. Everything is shite. The manager, the coaching staff, the players, the board, etc.
 

KennyBurner

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NOT.

For the last time, the problem is our shit coaching and shit tactics. We don’t need a Galactico team to beat bloody Brighton. This should be painfully obvious by now. Basic simple shit like moving off the ball we can’t do.
This is it right here. Absolutely horrific coaching. The poor coaching is so deep rooted in our players now that when they do try and get fancy with the ball they end up looking lost. Our wide players are constantly tracking back leaving our striker isolated upfront. Our players have extremely poor positioning. It’s all down to the coaching fellas. I mean the writing was all on the wall after that Bayern preseason game.

How are we going to move forward? What is mourinho going to do to change this? We will know the answer in the next game if we are still sitting deep in our own half letting the opposition have the ball. Also for what it’s worth I’m hoping matic is soon back in the side. As much as I’m done with mourinho we still need to finish top four and salvage some pride.
 

endless_wheelies

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Talking to a Leicester City fan he said he wouldn't take a single defender from Utd into the Leicester line up, as maybe Bailly/Lindelof have more talent than Evans (he doesn't know anything about Soyuncu) but for here and now consistent performance Evans is better. He'd also cream his pants if Leicester could get any of Mendy/Laporte/fit Kompany/Walker.

I know Bailly/Lindelof were supposedly bought by Mourinho (Castles debates Lindelof) but clearly they weren't bought as the finished product and there's still far more investment that needs to be done - you can debate the manager but the next manager will say exactly the same thing.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Talking to a Leicester City fan he said he wouldn't take a single defender from Utd into the Leicester line up, as maybe Bailly/Lindelof have more talent than Evans (he doesn't know anything about Soyuncu) but for here and now consistent performance Evans is better. He'd also cream his pants if Leicester could get any of Mendy/Laporte/fit Kompany/Walker.

I know Bailly/Lindelof were supposedly bought by Mourinho (Castles debates Lindelof) but clearly they weren't bought as the finished product and there's still far more investment that needs to be done - you can debate the manager but the next manager will say exactly the same thing.
That fan is a bit deluded tbh.

Leicester fans have gotten a bit too high after their title win in 2016.

Most of our defenders would slot straight into their first XI(with only Maguire staying from their side).
 

Cassady

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Hopefully the board didn't want to invest in new players this past transfer window because of all the funding needed to sack Mourinho and appoint Zizou.
Ive thought it for awhile that Jose is after a pay off.
 

steffyr2

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All those things are true but Jose doesnt have the confidence of the board, the majority of the fans, several key players...when they didn’t back him they sent out the wrong signals to the players especially. The defenders know he doesn’t fancy them. Those players know 2-3 performances like that and he’s gone. It’s pathetic our club has allowed players the control SAF said was vital. But if player power sees the back of ZZ as well I think fans will finally say they need to take some responsibility.
What I got from the summer was that Mourinho wanted to bring in a couple of senior players to steady the ship of young players, not that he didn't think the young players were good. So I don't think that's the message the defenders would have gotten.

They certainly can see that Mourinho can neither get the players he wants or get rid of players he doesn't want (Martial). Wonder how many games Martial will play?
 

Andersons Dietician

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Mourinho is just one part of the problem. The rest is down to our hierarchy and the PLAYERS!

No disrespect to Brighton as they did play well today, but we should be able to throw our 'stars' on to the pitch without any input from a manager and match them. It's not Mourinho's fault that we can't string a pass together. It's not Mourinho's fault that Bailly plays reckless and dives in. It's not Mourinho's fault that Pogba overplays everything.
I mean it kinda is his fault as it’s his job to coach them to not make stupid decisions and pick the options they have been working on all week in training. Is Jose’s job different somehow from other coaches?

I mean yeah the players at this level should know the basics and Bailly was atrocious today with his decisions which just threw the whole team out of shape but it’s Joses job to either stop that, make the change or coach him to not be so aggressive.
 

bleedred

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Put it this way: Even if we sack Mourinho tomorrow and appoint a stone cold brilliant manager, that manager will still want us to spend a fecktonne of money in coming windows to improve the side.
That's true. But What I also see is that if we keep mourinho and still spend the same fecktonne of money, we would still be here.

The players are bad, but not bad to be losing to the likes of brighton, Bradford and other relegation fodder consistently.
 

Godfather

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Put it this way: Even if we sack Mourinho tomorrow and appoint a stone cold brilliant manager, that manager will still want us to spend a fecktonne of money in coming windows to improve the side.
Pretty much. Apart from De Gea and Pogba there is not a single player that would start for City. How exactly are we supposed to compete with that shithouse of a squad.
 

Robbyb03

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Talking to a Leicester City fan he said he wouldn't take a single defender from Utd into the Leicester line up, as maybe Bailly/Lindelof have more talent than Evans (he doesn't know anything about Soyuncu) but for here and now consistent performance Evans is better. He'd also cream his pants if Leicester could get any of Mendy/Laporte/fit Kompany/Walker.

I know Bailly/Lindelof were supposedly bought by Mourinho (Castles debates Lindelof) but clearly they weren't bought as the finished product and there's still far more investment that needs to be done - you can debate the manager but the next manager will say exactly the same thing.
That fan is deluded!
Valencia is currently better than Pereira though Pereira is better in the future because of the age difference.
Bailly is better than anyone in the middle except maybe Maguire. Heck, I’d say that Smalling, Rojo, and Jones would be their second best CB behind Maguire as they are all equal to or better than Evans.
Shaw is significantly better than Fuchs and Chilwell.

The only players I’d take from Leicester City:
Maguire (CB) but not for £70M
Pereira (RB) coverage for and eventual replacement for Valencia
Ndidi (CDM) coverage for and eventual replacement for Matic
 

Godfather

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Settled for Sanchez instead of Perisic :lol:

I also settled for a good steak instead of eating plastic the other day.
Tbh Perisic is probably the better footballer in this moment of time and for the last 2 seasons
 

Regalia

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Players are an embarrassment. Whoever the manager, this is not going to work until that rotten core of sub-average players with sub-par attitudes is shipped out.
 

bleedred

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Mourinho is just one part of the problem. The rest is down to our hierarchy and the PLAYERS!

No disrespect to Brighton as they did play well today, but we should be able to throw our 'stars' on to the pitch without any input from a manager and match them. It's not Mourinho's fault that we can't string a pass together. It's not Mourinho's fault that Bailly plays reckless and dives in. It's not Mourinho's fault that Pogba overplays everything.
It kind of is his fault, specially considering that its his third season and this isn't the first time such things have happened on the field. Our first season had so many similar performances, which were glossed over with the cup wins. Last year, we had so many such performances against almost all of the bottom half teams.

If its one or two games, every season or so, you can say that players had a bad day. But players consistently performing badly compared to their roles in previous club/country, it shows that its something wrong tactically/ with organisation of the players.
 

Revan

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It's both. But a huge part is the players.

Lingard, Rashford, Mata wouldn't start for any of the other top 5 teams (Pool / City / Spurs / Chelsea).

Bailly and Lindelof wouldn't start for them either.

Neither would Shaw and Young.

Our players are just worse than what the other top teams have.
Chelsea's entire team wouldn't start for any top 6 EPL team three years ago. A year later, the same team won the league.
 

OverratedOpinion

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It's just frustrating to imagine this being the problem after how much we have spent. The players are definitely better than what they showed today, then again my old Sunday league team is better than what they showed today.
 

OverratedOpinion

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Chelsea's entire team wouldn't start for any top 6 EPL team three years ago. A year later, the same team won the league.
Chelsea have a weird way of fluctuating but seem to be able to improve rapidly. I actually find it a little disheartening that they can drastically improve so quickly yet it seems like we have spent 5 years of throwing crap against the wall with nothing sticking.
 

thegregster

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That's true. But What I also see is that if we keep mourinho and still spend the same fecktonne of money, we would still be here.

The players are bad, but not bad to be losing to the likes of brighton, Bradford and other relegation fodder consistently.
On the other hand the squad over performed v the rest of the big 6 last season.

4 wins at home plus 2 away. 2 draws 2 loses.

Who gets the praise for that?

The next manager won't even get close to that. He will win around 3-4 games max v the big 6.
 

bleedred

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On the other hand the squad over performed v the rest of the big 6 last season.

4 wins at home plus 2 away. 2 draws 2 loses.

Who gets the praise for that?

The next manager won't even get close to that. He will win around 3-4 games max v the big 6.
Nobody!. That is pretty much expected of any top club, isn't it?.

This is a professional football club, should operate to the highest standards and winning against the Top 6 and "the relegation fodder" should be the norm. Just one or the other won't do!
 

mancan92

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Guys we weren’t playing a top team. With no disrespect to Brighton but we have a team easily good enough to win.

Signings have nothing to do with it.