We should go for it of course. I think europe might suit us playing on the counter more. Just think in the league we will drop to many points against the weaker sides.
12 months since Mourinho was sacked and we've arguably gone backwards
- Thread starter Di Maria's angel
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Context matter. You have to understand expectation from Jose is more in comparison to say Ole or even Poch. Jose was doing decent till Feb 2018 and then everything went south. We hardly looked good and were playing a boring football. If you are just focusing on results then yes we have not progressed as such.
I am still not sure on Ole and that's why my vote is still "Sack". But I would have liked a third option of waiting till the end of the season. I don't think he deserves to be sacked now. In fact i will wait till next month to see how we do over the Christmas period and New year before deciding to change my vote.
Looking purely at the numbers you could argue we’ve gone backwards but I feel the club/squad was in such a state we had to take a step back to move forward.
Clearing out some of our ‘better players’ in Lukaku and Sanchez etc was a must, we’ll hopefully get the right players in from here on out.
Clearing out some of our ‘better players’ in Lukaku and Sanchez etc was a must, we’ll hopefully get the right players in from here on out.
In fairness, Maguire and AWB aren't good signings, so yes we are going no-where fast. If you compare AWB to Liverpools and City's full backs he is a mile behind.
Thats some low quality bait.
Some of you deserve to rot in Newbieville.
Some of you deserve to rot in Newbieville.
That's fair,yeah. If that third option was available I'd probably do the same to be honest because he isn't going anywhere now.
For all the problems at the club that do persist, there's no argument that can be made in any serious way of us having gone backwards unless you look at specific things - i.e. results - without context, or by ignoring the broader picture. Recency bias will make the present feel worse, but it can't possibly be understated how bad things got towards the end of Jose's tenure and even though there's plenty to be said about our issues going way beyond the manager, the club desperately needed to press the reset button and fast. Literally anything would have been an improvement on what was.
It is a fair observation however. that twelve months on, we are comparing Ole's performance with the absolute worst segment of Jose's and it doesn't make for pretty reading when you consider that. It makes it uglier when there aren't any substantial mitigating circumstances; failure to bring in replacements after losing important first team players like Fellaini [might chuckle but he was], Herrera and Lukaku is certainly not one of them. Pogba remaining as our sole creative outlet throughout the whole team is not one of them. Having a young team [although players like Tommy, Rashford and Martial have plenty of first team minutes under their belt] is not one when we are tactically one dimensional and in a perpetual cycle of raising our game against the big teams, while poor and impotent against the rest. 12 months on, our football is in a state of stagnation. Plateaued. But that's not to say we haven't moved forward from where we were, of course we have you'd have to be either blind or agenda-driven not to see it.
Having a club legend as manager has allowed the board to parrot 'the future' mantra and alleviate themselves of any responsibility for the present. I think Ole did excellent in removing the dark clouds over our club when he came in, and I believe he was a good choice in beginning the transition [he has done very good things like starting to ship out deadwood, developing Fred & Tommy, moving Martial to 9 and playing well with Rashford, feel good factor etc] in to some form of plan/action. But I don't have faith in the hierarchy to utilise this time and organise accordingly. If we as a club are serious, being within a realistic chance of getting top four this season, we should have targets lined up for January to make a serious push but I like I said I can't help but feel Ole will be the face of them not-so-quietly writing this year off - citing 'the future' as a reason to why us fans should accept it.
As a coach I think Ole is too basic and wouldn't have a job in the Premier League if he weren't a legend here, and it would be typical for the board to realise this when other top coaches find jobs leaving us nowhere. But no, we haven't gone backwards. If anything, if we make the right choices, we can go on an upward trajectory from here.
It is a fair observation however. that twelve months on, we are comparing Ole's performance with the absolute worst segment of Jose's and it doesn't make for pretty reading when you consider that. It makes it uglier when there aren't any substantial mitigating circumstances; failure to bring in replacements after losing important first team players like Fellaini [might chuckle but he was], Herrera and Lukaku is certainly not one of them. Pogba remaining as our sole creative outlet throughout the whole team is not one of them. Having a young team [although players like Tommy, Rashford and Martial have plenty of first team minutes under their belt] is not one when we are tactically one dimensional and in a perpetual cycle of raising our game against the big teams, while poor and impotent against the rest. 12 months on, our football is in a state of stagnation. Plateaued. But that's not to say we haven't moved forward from where we were, of course we have you'd have to be either blind or agenda-driven not to see it.
Having a club legend as manager has allowed the board to parrot 'the future' mantra and alleviate themselves of any responsibility for the present. I think Ole did excellent in removing the dark clouds over our club when he came in, and I believe he was a good choice in beginning the transition [he has done very good things like starting to ship out deadwood, developing Fred & Tommy, moving Martial to 9 and playing well with Rashford, feel good factor etc] in to some form of plan/action. But I don't have faith in the hierarchy to utilise this time and organise accordingly. If we as a club are serious, being within a realistic chance of getting top four this season, we should have targets lined up for January to make a serious push but I like I said I can't help but feel Ole will be the face of them not-so-quietly writing this year off - citing 'the future' as a reason to why us fans should accept it.
As a coach I think Ole is too basic and wouldn't have a job in the Premier League if he weren't a legend here, and it would be typical for the board to realise this when other top coaches find jobs leaving us nowhere. But no, we haven't gone backwards. If anything, if we make the right choices, we can go on an upward trajectory from here.
So if the team is not winning you should refuse to renew season tickets? Seems like a lot to ask from a match going fan...
No, of course not. But if you do renew, you completely void your rights to complain about the plight of the club and the way the owners are selling the manager short.
No, you don't. It just means you are a supporter above all else regardless of what you disagree with. You can complain about the plight of the club and still attend matches.
It's not clever just the right point as another poster mentioned , clueless edited post because of duplicate one . Look at stats look at what's played, sometimes think before you speak, it helps . Oles the most defensive coach we've had ????come on that was Jose by a million miles. Parks the bus hah ha .. what a comment.Great response. Plus you edited your post after few hours just to add that remark..
Same shit from people like you for months now. When you don't know how to defend Ole except usual "knows the club" and "needs time" you just attack posters with clever remarks like that.
Seems a bit backwards to me. Logically speaking, isn't it paying customers (in this case supporters) who can complain the most?
This is the thought process of the modern day ‘fan.’
You can tell people to stop talking about ‘top reds’ etc but anybody who thinks you should down tools on your team simply doesn’t have the same passion or connection with the club.
It’s that simple. Anyone who says otherwise is one of them or is lying.
There is more to supporting your club than just trophies and the biggest signings, what do you think makes the fans of clubs that never win trophies keep going to games and getting behind their team?
I have close friends who never miss a Cardiff City game, like ever! And let me tell you something, if you think you’ve seen tumescent football spend a season watching Cardiff in the wind and rain.
They do it because they worship their team, they would go to games if they ended up in non league football.
Doesn’t mean they agree with what the board does (changing the colour of their home shirt and badge ffs!)
There is a disconnect with modern fans that only see things with such a short term tunnel vision for instant success. We are in a mess that is five to six years in the making, one transfer window doesn’t fix that.
That’s just nonsense. Maguire has massively improved our defence and he’s only just getting started. AWB is the best defensive fullback in the world in my opinion and of course there is room for a player like that in any team. For a start he’s better than anyone city have. Secondly, football isn’t as simple as thinking “all fullbacks have to be super offensive in the modern game” the key is a player like Wan Bissaka just frees up another position on the pitch. There’s a reason why Liverpool have a low quality work horse midfield and it’s because they basically act as the defenders and allow the fullbacks to attack. We can now afford to have an extra attacking midfielder or an otherwise luxury player in attack. Many ways to skin a cat and ultimately I think they will prove to be exceptional signings.
This is a big overrating. He hasn't massively improven our defense at all. He has been a slight upgrade over Smalling, that's all.
Agree regarding the signings, only certain fans on the caf would be unhappy when their club signs the best defensive fullback in world football.
Going forward can be coached, you can’t coach how good this dude is at tackling
Disagree, he might not be Van Dyke but he’s a very good player. For me the talk of Smalling is madness he’s had a whole career at Man Utd proving he’s nowhere near good enough. Maguire is a leader, fantastic in the air and he’s brilliant on the ball. Once we get afew more players in midfield and improve our ball retention and overall game dominance (which I think will come) our defence will concede less and Maguire will get far more credit.
Well the problem is that people who support Manchester United, or any club for that matter, do so regardless of winning any trophies. The trophies are a bonus. Many of the "old timers" I find myself lucky enough to sit beside from time to time have been there since the 60s and 70s. They do not just give up their season tickets because a portion of online fans arent happy that we arent challenging for league titles. It runs a pot deeper than that. In fact, I couldnt care less, of course I would prefer we were in better shape but it would never stop me going if I can get a ticket, to be honest if I can get a season ticket this year I will be.
Are you a season ticket holder or regular match goer?
Judging Ole's performance after only 70m net spend in his first transfer period doesn't make sense. His 3 signings are performing well, so Woodward should back him. It would be best to wait until half a season after Ole reaches 300m net spend to fairly judge Ole's performance as manager, imho. As for the season to date, we have yet to see Pogba in a midfield 3 with McFred behind a front 3 of Rashford, Martial, and James. I'd like to see that group in action vs bottom 10 teams before writing off Ole as a manager.
I’ve been saying since we signed him he’s the defensive equivalent to Mbappe. Genuinely never seen defending like it! If nothing else I personally love watching him play!
Completely agree! The reality is if we sacked Ole now I know personally I’d still have a massive nagging feeling of “what if...”. Call me naive but I think this team is on the edge of something very promising. Still lots to do but this is the first time in years we look like a unit all pulling in the same direction!
How is he brilliant on the ball ?
Literally never panics under pressure. Can’t think of many occasions he has given away the ball under pressure. People underestimate the impact that makes. Additionally, he’s good at driving with the ball into midfield and just generally looks a very silky defender for such a big unit. How is he not brilliant on the ball?
He doesn't shite the bed with the ball in his feet unlike Smalling but that's about it here. I don't see anything outrageous in his distribution or ball abilities to be labelled "brilliant" really.
Yeh fair enough, maybe brilliant is abit much, but he is definitely underrated on his composure on the ball under pressure. I do however think he’s miles better than Smalling as a player.
Definitely don't think we have gone backwards in the last 12 months.
Most posters always claim they are willing to give a manager time and let him try execute a long-term plan then a few wobbles and a run of bad form and they want him out the door.
Ole has attempted to get rid of most of the deadwood that people on here were crying out for i.e. Sanchez, Fellaini, Smalling, Lukaku, Darmian. He basically had to keep some otherwise we wouldn't have had a squad going into this season but I suspect Mata, Jones, Young, Matic won't be here for much longer.
He's also attempted to blood some youngsters into the team in the shape of Pereira, McTominay, Greenwood, Williams and Tuanzebe. Laird, Chong and Garner have also featured.
His 3 signings have ranged from very good to decent in AWB, James and Maguire. AWB is a massive improvement on Young, he basically locks down that side defensively. He needs to improve going forward however. James has been a breath of fresh air, most wouldn't have expected him to had this much of an impact. He's ran out of steam the last few games but before that he was brilliant. Maguire has improved the defence, yes we overpaid at £80m and there was probably better options out there but he was pretty much guaranteed to come in and help the backline and that's what he has done.
The football has a clear plan for me. We are a counter attacking team and it has shown in the results. We struggle to break teams down and this leads to unneccessary draws. This is due to a lack of creativity within the team which hasn't been helped by Pogba's absence. I'm sure Ole wanted to bring in one more player in the summer but couldn't get it over the line for whatever reason and I'm sure it will be an area he will address as soon as he can whether that is January or in the summer.
Under Jose, the atmosphere was toxic, there was always rumours in the media of him falling out with players etc, the football was terrible and you could never see him turning the corner and making us a great side again. His transfer record wasn't great and left us with players such as Lukaku, Sanchez, Mkhi and Matic.
Most posters always claim they are willing to give a manager time and let him try execute a long-term plan then a few wobbles and a run of bad form and they want him out the door.
Ole has attempted to get rid of most of the deadwood that people on here were crying out for i.e. Sanchez, Fellaini, Smalling, Lukaku, Darmian. He basically had to keep some otherwise we wouldn't have had a squad going into this season but I suspect Mata, Jones, Young, Matic won't be here for much longer.
He's also attempted to blood some youngsters into the team in the shape of Pereira, McTominay, Greenwood, Williams and Tuanzebe. Laird, Chong and Garner have also featured.
His 3 signings have ranged from very good to decent in AWB, James and Maguire. AWB is a massive improvement on Young, he basically locks down that side defensively. He needs to improve going forward however. James has been a breath of fresh air, most wouldn't have expected him to had this much of an impact. He's ran out of steam the last few games but before that he was brilliant. Maguire has improved the defence, yes we overpaid at £80m and there was probably better options out there but he was pretty much guaranteed to come in and help the backline and that's what he has done.
The football has a clear plan for me. We are a counter attacking team and it has shown in the results. We struggle to break teams down and this leads to unneccessary draws. This is due to a lack of creativity within the team which hasn't been helped by Pogba's absence. I'm sure Ole wanted to bring in one more player in the summer but couldn't get it over the line for whatever reason and I'm sure it will be an area he will address as soon as he can whether that is January or in the summer.
Under Jose, the atmosphere was toxic, there was always rumours in the media of him falling out with players etc, the football was terrible and you could never see him turning the corner and making us a great side again. His transfer record wasn't great and left us with players such as Lukaku, Sanchez, Mkhi and Matic.
We have improved as a counter attacking side, but still clueless when teams sit back. Against Colchester we would never have scored if they hadnt have decided to attack themselves. This enabled the long ball out and Rashford did the rest. A top class CF and a AM at least who has the skill and guile to make the killer pass would bring us on no end. Lets hope the end of January this has been rectified.
In fairness - Raheem Sterling might disagree with you regarding AWB.
It's bit strange that there are people who believe that we have gone backwards - compared to where we were 12 months ago. And these are the same people who call me delusional for backing OGS 
The last 15 games we have played: 9 wins, 4 Draws and 2 defeats (and one defeat was away to Astana with out kids) - goal difference 31-15
The last 15 games we played under Mourinho - 6 wins, 5 Draws and 4 defeats - including getting destroyed by Liverpool and City - goal difference 23-21
The last 15 games we have played: 9 wins, 4 Draws and 2 defeats (and one defeat was away to Astana with out kids) - goal difference 31-15
The last 15 games we played under Mourinho - 6 wins, 5 Draws and 4 defeats - including getting destroyed by Liverpool and City - goal difference 23-21
If someone drives you over the clif and then jumps out of the car you're gonna blame the guy who took the steering wheel mid-air for continuing to go down?
That's the logic behind these types of statements.
Mourinho set us up for painful couple of seasons before he left, his big buys didn't pay off, he knew full well Sanchez and the likes aren't going to last but he wanted to buy the league so he spent like a drunken sailor in a wh*re house. Ole's job is cleaning the mess first, even if he is not a long term manager for us his job is still to get rid of the dead wood and leave something you can work with and build on from the next season without letting the club slip too far down. So far it's been acceptable, given the circumstances. A lot of players we don't need have left, we are thinking before spending and, for us fans, there are still games against strong teams we can win so that's something to look forward too. It also makes me hopeful for another EL victory and CL spot next season.
That's the logic behind these types of statements.
Mourinho set us up for painful couple of seasons before he left, his big buys didn't pay off, he knew full well Sanchez and the likes aren't going to last but he wanted to buy the league so he spent like a drunken sailor in a wh*re house. Ole's job is cleaning the mess first, even if he is not a long term manager for us his job is still to get rid of the dead wood and leave something you can work with and build on from the next season without letting the club slip too far down. So far it's been acceptable, given the circumstances. A lot of players we don't need have left, we are thinking before spending and, for us fans, there are still games against strong teams we can win so that's something to look forward too. It also makes me hopeful for another EL victory and CL spot next season.
He’s a better defender than both though! Just needs to work on his game in attack.
Do you think that the way we play and based on the players brought in, will continue to play, is going to make us competitive again?It's bit strange that there are people who believe that we have gone backwards - compared to where we were 12 months ago. And these are the same people who call me delusional for backing OGS
The last 15 games we have played: 9 wins, 4 Draws and 2 defeats (and one defeat was away to Astana with out kids) - goal difference 31-15
The last 15 games we played under Mourinho - 6 wins, 5 Draws and 4 defeats - including getting destroyed by Liverpool and City - goal difference 23-21
My personal opinion is that OGS will have one important legacy after he leaves the club: Cultural Change among the players. In a long term perspective, this is vital. Comparing us last season to this season's Arsenal and you can see the similarities in how the players can't be bothered. And this is the only real positive from OGS 1 year at the club. Our style of play, the squad, technical ability etc are still far below and/or completely different from what is needed to compete at the highest level or overtime against a certain type of teams.
We could do with a player like Mhkitarian - his style of play is counter attacking football and need a manager like OGS whose going to only show love.
Do you think we will play the same way if for instance our midfield had been McTominay, a motivated Pogba and one more quality midfielder - for arguments sake say Saul ?
This is somewhat a "chicken and the egg" dilemma. Is it the players available that forces us to play this type of football or is it the manager/coaches that is the main reason? (Most likely a bit of both) My issue is: given that the squad before the summer was suited to the current type of football, and with the new players brought in we are even more "specialized" to play transition-dependent football, what sign are there that the manager/coaches want to play a different type of football? Would we not have bought players during the summer that were suited to a non-counter-attacking approach if the intent was to play a different type of football?
Do you think we will be able to compete at the highest level and over time with the approach to/type of football we are currently playing? (just in case we continue approaching football in this manner)
To me it's obvious that OGS wants both - he wants to be able to counter teams - but he also wants players who can break down opponents who are putting 8-9 players in defense. If you look at the Everton-game - would they have survived with a point if we had Paul Pogba (or someone of his quality) on the pitch in the last 30 minutes - probably not.
absolutely, I actually look forward to the football now. Something that hasn’t happened consistently since fergie left!
So you agree that we will not be able to compete at the highest level by being a pure counter-attacking team?
His idea is to make us counter-attacking specialist and then buy players that would make us able to gradually transition into a team able to break down "park the bus" teams? From a team unable to be productive in possession into a team that can dominate games with the ball? We already had a majority of the players in the squad being better in a counter-attacking setup. Buying more players solely suited to this type of football makes little sense to me, especially when somewhere down the line the idea is to have a team being able to perform in possession as well unless one thinks that one can improve the player's ability on the ball drastically over a season...
I would prefer a manager that was not solely dependent on individual performances by players to break down balanced defences.
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No but United is not a pure counter-attacking team - we are just better at it. You make it sound like United put 10 players behind the ball in every single game - which is of course so far away from the truth as you can come. Against Everton United had almost 70% of the ball - and if Pogba had played, we probably would have won. He didn't.
But the fact remains - we are 1-2 quality players away from being where we should be to beat teams like Everton. And suddenly we can counter teams like Liverpool and break down teams like Everton. We are not good enough yet - but if OGS gets 2 more transfer windows, I am pretty confident we will be.