I don't know about LVG's influence but we could be Barca if we had a bunch of players who could play under pressure and not lose their heads after we concede a chance. We don't have to be the most talented team in the world. We just have to have grit, discipline, good understanding of the game, and buy into our manager's ideas. At the minute very few players have that in our team.
2017 Pre Season | Barcelona vs Manchester United
- Thread starter Invictus
- Start date
Sarcasm.
Its about how you create space and play against a high press. We are not playing good on posession because we are passing it vertical and not sidways to strech the pitch.
Its simple fooballing principles. You have to keep the ball and press high proactively . We have to play on Posession against Posession based sides. which are a lot in UCL. and now in epl with City and liverpool.
What were you watching? We didn't create a single good chance against them. All our shots were outside the box.
Yes i expected a more balanced team.
Strange because Atletico and Juve have been defeating them by exactly the same way in CL. In fact the only team who knocked them playing attacking football was Bayern and that was in Barca worst year ever. The other times they got knocked out from CL since they won it in 2011 was Chelsea, Atletico twice and Juve, all are highly defensive teams.
Been linked with Forsberg recently. Never seen him play, but he's supposed to be very creative. According to whoscored.com, he made 19 assists last season, which was the most in the Bundesliga. His closest rival was 12.
And how many times? One off if they park the bus and score on the counter.
Creative as in Like a dribbler and improver , one who cuts inside and creates against a high press. Like bernardo or Mahrez
The only sensible comment available to read on here.
Atleti and Juve have better players or at least players who don't shun away from playing against technical teams.
4 times out of their last 5 exits from CL. Even 2010 they were eliminated by the highly defensive Inter.
So to sum it up since their rise under Pep:
2009: won it.
2010: knocked by highly defensive Inter.
2011: won it
2012: knocked by highly defensive Chelsea.
2013: knocked by Bayern ( the only exception )
2014: knocked by highly defensive Atletico.
2015: won it
2016: knocked by highly defensive Atletico.
2017: knocked by highly defensive Juve.
That's the majority here.
I hate to hear that we lack techincal ability even after spending truck loads. We dont . Lvg built the base of this team, and we should not throw away his good work. or else 2009 and 2011 will be repeated again.
Yea but those teams don't hoof the ball blindly like we do. Their players know where to be and who to pass the ball to. It's not about having more possession than Barca, it's what we do with the ball when we have it. They are efficient in their attacks.
And you like to see United park the bus? We are not effcient on counter anyways. our only chance is to keep the ball and deny them goal scoring chances via keeping the ball high up the pitch in our control at maximum times.
Even when we get in the box valencia tries to play a high cross so wayward. rather than a low cross.
I didnt say that, but at the same time, defeating Barca playing possession vs possession isn't the easiest thing as you're describing.
We need to be much more decisive in front of the goal against big teams. That's all I can say.
It's not so much the ability we lack - it's the fecking mentality to go out and play the football we are capable of playing.
That's exactly it. It's what you do with the ball. Half of our team don't want to do feck all except to pass it sideways so someone else has to do their job for them.
Man city did beat them dint they? You need the desire that's all. You have to play on posession or atleast press proactively in the middle. to win it back ,still you need creative wide players and a Ball circulation way to keep and ball and actually build up an attack against a high press.
More than mentality its about ball cirulation and how the space is created and how the ball is won back in proactive fashion.
It's pre season you morons
Get a grip
Get a grip
Passing sideways is actually better against this philosophy, but also passing side to side is important and then you bring your creative players into play in space to use their skills.
Wait, are people suggesting that Barcelona have better players than us?
Never knew until this match.
Never knew until this match.
You can beat them in one or 2 off days for them but getting them knocked out from the competition is something else. Don't forget they also blew them out 4-0 in the first match. If Barca met City in a KO 2 legs games they will beat them every time.
The only English team in past years who succeeded in stopping against them in a KO games was Chelsea and we'll remember how they played.
In 2011 under SAF who isn't a defensive manager by any means we saw our team getting forced back pretty badly during the second half and we failed to build a single attack against them and no one can say that was SAF tactical plan for the match. It was inevitable.
What I want to tell you is saying something and applying it on the pitch are 2 different things.
This side still needs time to compete on CL. All top teams have passed through similar periods in CL no need to panic. Bayern before LVG 2010 was absent from advancing stages in CL for some years, Barca got years before 2006 when they were far too and Madrid had a known period of getting knocked out of 16th round till Mourinho arrived. Pretty normal to happen to any time.
What we need to concentrate now on was to be a match for our league rivals and challenge for the league title. After this competing for CL will have its time.
I don't think that's fair on Juve. They were defensively very good, but they didn't play defensively.
I think a better word is composure. You expect kids to fall short on that but experienced players like Blind etc were rushing their shots, resulting in poor passing. The result is that we had a very disjointed display and resorted to long balls. Last match of the American phase of the pre-season -- one expects better and gradual improvements.
It's clearly doesn't work for us though. It didn't work for van Gaal. It doesn't work now.
What worked for United over the past 25 years is fast attacking gun-ho football. The only time I really remember us playing differently is during the Arsenal era when they mostly played us of the park. But largely we've played the ball into feet of any player who could turn and pass it forward or see an opening. This stoic shit doesn't work.
I agree -- teams take a few seasons to build up for the CL. But you are assuming that all things remain the same. That teams do not get better and that we dont lose players along the way in the next few seasons as we try and prepare ourselves for the CL.
Yes that too. It's a lot of things. We've a few very bright sparks in our teams. Special talents in Rashford, Pogba, Bailly and De Gea. We've excellent players in Valencia, Lukaku, Herrera and Mata. After that we've got inconsistent players like Mkhitaryan to Fellaini who should've never put on a United shirt.
And Blind epitomised it for me, it's a friendly fecking game and he couldn't pass it ten yards in front of him. It's a fecking friendly! It's a glorified kick-around where there should be no pressure what so ever. Yet his composure, decision making and general play were fecking atrocious. There's no defending that.
I usually defend United to the hilt but seeing us perform like bunch of amateurs really infuriates me.
I get the feeling that we lost the match at the tunnel today.
We arent technically as bad as we played earlier. I bet they didn't follow Jose's instruction. Brain froze and all instruction went out the window.
No, football is a cycle. Teams having their golden period while others start to have a decline. We only need to concentrate on building ourselves. Madrid and Barca won't remain the dominant force on CL the whole life.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I'm 100% Jose doesn't wright at the tactics board "Hoof it up long, aimlessly, give away possession in our own half and fecking pass to the next player just so you're not the one to blame if you try something and it doesn't come off"
Like I said earlier we started the game very well and if we played like that for 90 mins we'd have beaten Barca with quick direct counter attacks which they fecking hate defending against.
Don't give a feck about the result. This is the sort of high quality run out that differentiates our prep this season to last. Lots of positives here. No shock we are behind a world class and highly gelled Barcelona side. Still lots of passages of excellent play that bode well for the team chemistry.
Biggest plus for me, is the much more positive approach I've seen in every game so far. Most of our individuals look sharp too. Squad looks better balanced and settled than last season.
Individually, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Lingard, Lukaku, and Rashford have all looked superb this preseason. The biggest criticism of our big signing, Lukaku, was his first touch and hold up play; and yet those have looked veritable strengths to me, so far.
We are definitely better prepared, with a better squad, than we were last season. And to think that we've also got Rojo, Shaw, and (probably) Zlatan to come back. Plus one or two more high quality signings. This will be the strongest squad we've had post Fergie, by some distance.
Biggest plus for me, is the much more positive approach I've seen in every game so far. Most of our individuals look sharp too. Squad looks better balanced and settled than last season.
Individually, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Lingard, Lukaku, and Rashford have all looked superb this preseason. The biggest criticism of our big signing, Lukaku, was his first touch and hold up play; and yet those have looked veritable strengths to me, so far.
We are definitely better prepared, with a better squad, than we were last season. And to think that we've also got Rojo, Shaw, and (probably) Zlatan to come back. Plus one or two more high quality signings. This will be the strongest squad we've had post Fergie, by some distance.
I don't know why some are butthurt over this pointless pre-season match. I also reckon if this was a serious match in the UCL then Barca would have smoked us in Old trafford forget about Camp Nou. The intensity of the match would have been completely different.
Barca weren't that into the game to be fairly honestly so I don't understand some of the accusations against them regarding the diving.
Loss or win pre-season is pointless. It's just warm up
Barca weren't that into the game to be fairly honestly so I don't understand some of the accusations against them regarding the diving.
Loss or win pre-season is pointless. It's just warm up
I recognise teams go into a cycle -- which was the genius of Fergie of having a conveyer belt system then ensured consistency rather than a boom-bust cycle.
We have lots a lot of European know-how in their team when Moyesy and LVG chopped a lot of them. It will take a few seasons to build that back up again.
Remember how Fergie used to struggle in the mid-90s for the CL? Eventually, we cracked the code. This team may need to do the same.
Was he good throughout?Alena bossing it @Varun
Agree about being a pre-season but you expect progression and not this lack of composure. Its our 5th match. I would be ok if it was just our 1st pre-season.
Was the starting XI 4-2-3-1 ??
-----------Lukaku--------
Lingard---Mkhi---Rashford
-----Pogba----Carrick------
??
-----------Lukaku--------
Lingard---Mkhi---Rashford
-----Pogba----Carrick------
??
Exactly my thoughts. Thanks for expressing them in much better words than me.