Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by AkaAkuma, Jun 12, 2019.
Thanks for that pearl of wisdom. Insightful.
And complete and utter bollocks.
We will take the heat off spurs tomorrow.
I think, and fear, the issue you might have is the sheer amount of quality you need to replace all at once.
Rose - Out of favour, unsettled
Verts - Running down contract
Toby - Running down contract
Erikson - Running down contract
Without actually investing into adding to the squad you could be in a position where you need to replace that lot before you even look to improve.
You also, as mentioned, need to look at a top full back and a forward.
It’s ok, they can enjoy a nice game of NFL tomorrow to take their mind off today.
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Fair enough for coming out with that!
Sessegnon was meant to be Rose's replacement I believe. But yes the others should have been sorted out, definitely Eriksen. He's looked nothing like the player a few seasons ago.
The other problems Spurs have is the likes of Alli coming back from long term injury and their new signing Lo Celso injured. Both are potential players to fill in for Eriksen until they get a real replacement. I didnt even realise Wanyama was still at Spurs, thought he left years ago.
But agree the Spurs squad needs work and rebuilding. Wanyama, Rose, Eriksen, Alderweireld need to go, they needed to sort out if Vertonghen is out or in for the next stage of the project. If he's out, sell, if he's in, new contract.
Their choice is stick with Pochettino, risk the top 4 & rebuild the team again (which I doubt they can do it under Pochettino’s style with so many ageing players).
Or sack Pochettino, get manager like Allegri who probably more suitable getting the best out of ageing defenders. However, whether he can keep them next summer will be another big question mark.
Pochettino likes to play high press, so far I don’t see it anymore in Spurs. Whether the players just unfit or too old or don’t give a feck anymore.
I only watch bits and pieces or highlights of Spurs' matches but what I've noticed is how poor/disiniterested Alderweireld looks out there. In the past, he was probably their best defender, now he seemingly just doesn't give a shit.
A bit like us post SAF They have been too slow to rebuild/ pick apart their squad in the last couple of summers. If the likes of Eriksen, alderweireld, vertonghen and rose are running down/not signing contracts then they needed to get rid and bring in more younger and hungrier players. The spine of the team has not been replaced or refreshed enough and it has led to stagnation and a lack of work rate in the press.
This is something I wouldn't have expected to happen under Pochettino and Levy who I would have expected to be more ruthless.
Very true. I think that's the issue at the moment. The whole spine doesn't want to be at the club any more and I suspect they have made this known some time ago yet Levy wouldn't move them on.
You can often get by if it's one player in this position but when its 3 or 4 of your best players then it can become toxic. Toby does look well off the boil.
Spurs fans should be very careful what they wish for. You do realise he has done wonders with Spurs to have them constantly in top four. With the resources he had he should not be competing with the so called top five.
Looking at the Spurs fans boards the vast majority want to ditch Pochettino & bring in all sorts of names, particularly negative types like Mourinho & Allegri. Should be interesting. I like Spurs, but I wouldn't wish Mourinho on my worst enemy, as he will bring nothing but grief to your club.
Just look at Liverpool (30 years), Arsenal (15), Us (6) that things are not all rosy when long serving managers or managerial setup in Liverpool's case, come to an end, & all it needs is some name to get to the next level. I remember hearing that hilarity all those years ago when Newcastle under Freddie Shepherd sacked Bobby Robson & brought in Souness. Never did reach Robson's achievements after his sacking. Spurs haven't the resources of the above three (Not Newcastle) & have been living beyond their means with success due to the manager, which seems to be coming to an end.
Gazzinga, good looking boy.... shite goalkeeper.
Really? I think hes quite good.
Do we have a better squad than is currently showing? I love Poch but the CL Final seems to have fecked him big style. His formations, tactics and in game management is all wrong. No Spurs fan is saying he is shit but he seems to have lost it.
No, he really isn’t. He’s been pretty shit, we should have kept Worm, I think you are enchanted by his baby blues.
Who's next in line for Spurs and is he PL quality?
(not that it matters, you're know Spurs are getting relegated along with United this season)
We will fight it out in the Championship, honestly I don’t know unless I looked it up, basically no youth prospect.
If Poch dosen't last much longer got a feeling Mourinho is going to be their next manager.
Pretty sure Spurs went for him straight after he was sacked from Chelsea (2007) and it would be mid season so tough to prise away any decent options. Guess Allegri would be option but not convinced he'd consider Spurs. Would be similar to LVG who pretty much accepted and then ditched Spurs when Man. United showed serious interest (interesting how last 5 years would've played out if he'd actually gone to Spurs).
So you have guy who lives in London, knows premier league and Spurs are looking so desperate atm they would gladly sign up for defensive minded style that would probably get a shed load of 1-0 wins with Kane upfront and get them top 4. It's imperative Spurs keep on playing CL given they're finally at new stadium.
Get the feeling it would make sense for all for him to take it over until summer and then all parties can re-assess.
Hope Pochettino leaves and Levy hires Mourinho. I want to see Glastonspurs’ reaction to that
You - and, to be fair, most people - should be careful not to make the mistake of conceptualising this Spurs team as one in which Poch basically scored every goal himself. He got very fortunate with the squad he inherited: a world-beating striker sitting there in waiting and the whole spine of the team developing naturally into their prime.
For all his fortune, he still very nearly managed to get himself fired less than halfway through a dismal first season by refusing to play Kane in the league, despite vast mounting evidence in favour of doing so. Poch finally played Kane as a Hail Mary with one foot already out the door and that's the only reason the former is still there.
I would argue that with the talent Poch stumbled upon, including a crucial asset his predecessors lacked, taking Spurs from a solidly top 6 team to a solidly top 4 team while winning nothing hardly constitutes pulling up trees. Fortune seems to have played a large role in the Poch story and therefore public opinion of him.
So far, the only real challenges he's had to face at Spurs since the rocky start have all come in the last year (or have publicly manifested themselves in that time) and, in response, he has immediately started to falter and display weaknesses. In my opinion, an elite manager should've seen that the upwards momentum in his squad was plateauing more than 24 months ago and should've recognised that as the ideal time to act.
I also wonder if a different manager could've already claimed hardware with this squad, especially a few years ago. Shame we don't have a parallel dimension machine but it wouldn't surprise me.
Aye, I think he's shit too. Not good for your lads. Remember in the Summer you were sniffing around Lazio keeper Strakosha, probably would have been a good signing in hindsight.
This is basically the best what Poch can achieve with Spurs's resource & planning. A lot of manager would struggle to achieve more than what Poch done. If you hire a short term style manager like Mourinho he might be able to save your club & still achieve top 4 or may be even win cup trophy. However, for long term no way he can carry your club especially with less resource than United.
We had this discussion before that in term of rebuilding process I think we are ahead of you.
First is the resource. We have more resource to back our manager than you have. After a new stadium, surely it'll take time to earn the money back for the rebuilding process.
Second is your squad.
Winks, Dier & Sissoko IMO are average midfielder. With Winks you could say he has more years to improve but not for the other 2 & Wanyama. I don't even rate them that I don't think I'll even take them for free to United's current squad. Basically, they are not the solution of Spurs & United rebuilding process.
Defense are ageing. Toby & Vert are old now and about to past their prime. Next summer you probably need to find replacement for them. Again losing both of them could be step down. You haven't replace Trippier as well.
Eriksen, Toby & Vert will be out of contract soon. Losing three of them for free could be massive problem in both your financially & your progress as a club. It's also slowing down your rebuilding process.
Your attackers are the only positive especially Kane & Son. But let's face the reality and I have said this multiple times before, it's not possible to upgrade your midfield & defense in 1 and 2 windows given with less resource. And if it takes any longer, by the time you fix your defense & midfield, both Kane & Son might already past their prime.
You had the chance before when Toby & Vert were still in their prime age. Eriksen is still 100% commit for future, full back were top in the league with good talented attackers but you didn't improve your squad further to go further and this is the cost now.
I stopped reading at that horse shit , Poch has played his part but so did Harry before him who arguably had us playing better football, getting us far in the CL and in the top 4, we are far from the point of needing "saving". You say you are way ahead of us in building forward? Take off your rose tinted glasses we both need building back up You have left out all 3 players which were bought this summer simply to suit your incredibly biased agenda. We were in for Dybala and had agreed terms with Bruno, again you FAIL to mention that. Id advise you to take in some football outside your own club and you might be in a better position to analysis another club nevermind your own.
The idea that this is currently the best Poch can do with this squad is absolutely laughable.
Last week was the worst I’ve seen a talented Spurs team perform. Was sack on the spot worthy.
How can someone still insisting to reply if they stop reading. It's like you want to discuss but got no clue what's whole the point of the discussion, which I can see you are missing every point.
We have more young players in our squad to be developed. We both have average midfield bar from Pogba. You got mix of ageing (your defense), prime age (Your attack Kane & Son) & players out of their contract (Eriksen, Toby & Vert).
I have said this multiple times before, it's not possible to upgrade your midfield & defense in 1 and 2 windows given with less resource. And if it takes any longer, by the time you fix your defense & midfield, both Kane & Son might already past their prime. And with more resource money by the time we fix our issue & rebuild our team, players like Rashford, James, Martial, McTomminay, Greenwood would hit their prime age. Of course this is also based on if we can get talented manager who can develop young players like Pochetinno himself.
We will agree to disagree, you clealy know very little about our squad if you fail to mention Ndombelle, GLC, Sessinghon, Skipp etc. Pogba? He wants out mate and has done NOTHING of note this season. Kane and Son past their Prime? WHAT THE ACTUAL feck? I'm out of this, now you can continue your puppetry all on your own some, Kane's 26 and Son's 27, absolutely laughable stuff. You do know Pogba is 26? Actually don't bother replying I cant take any more of your absolute BS.
What has to be agree to disagree? You barely even get my sentence right because you have been spouting some BS.
Clearly I never say Kane & Son past their prime, stop talking nonsense that I never actually say, you are embarrassing yourself with your ridiculous reaction. Re-read the post again mate.
I am aware of Ndombele, Celso & Sessegnon. So Im taking this as that you think you are in the right track of rebuilding process? If that's the case then let Pochettino continue then. If you think you are in the right track of the rebuilding process then you should put more faith in him to continue what he has done, what he has planned and keep going.
If you knew about them why has it taken you this long to acknowledge them? I’m not entirely Poch out unless we have a plan to replace him. If however we have someone interested I would be keen to see who it was. It’s not a reactionary thing, Poch and is have been shot for nearly a year.
Because Im mentioning the deadwood & some players that you need to replace.
Notice how I mention you haven't replace Trippier but I didn't mention anything about your left back need to be replaced because Im aware you have start the replacement although he's still long way to go to even be considered ready to cement you LB role because the manager still need to develop him as a left back since recently Sessegnon has spent his career more as a left winger (oh hey I know about players from other teams too, so stop mentioning BS that I never say!). Celso is just on loan. Obviously if he end up as a good one then you could buy him.
If you don't believe in Poch then Im right to even think that your rebuilding process is way behind us.
Unlike our signings James, Maguire & Bissaka. Sessegnon & Celso are still unproven whether they can settle in EPL in their prefer position & still need to be developed to suit in the team before even develop into top players which probably in Poch's mind. If you think those two signings are on the right track of part of Poch's rebuilding process then Poch deserves to be given another 3-5 years time to continue his plan regardless of what happened.
.... do you believe in Ole?
Manutd are rebuilding to be back to the top of English football, well that is what the fans expect anyway, or atleast challenge for titles.
Spurs on the other hand, what is their ambition? re-build ? they have never been great to say they need a re-build.
They don't have the same mentality as lets say Manutd, Liverpool or even Chelsea.
I don't even think they have the financial power to compete either.
No. But the case is different.
Our signing recently Bissaka, Maguire & James have been settle in with the team & the league quickly. Whoever the manager is which I would like Poch to be our next manager should be happy with those three as the additional & I believe he is the right manager to take us further forward.
But what about a different manager in Spurs? Will they be happy with Celso & Sessegnon? No one feckin know whether Sessegnon suit left back more than a left winger. But Poch believe that he can turn him back as a left back again & develop him to be a top left back. Same goes with Celso what proof do you have if any other manager can help him to settle in with the league?
Where is the evidence of this, being back at the top?
Clearly we don't, but we have improved massively, your posts screams entitlement. I have never said we have any where close to the resources of United or the other sides, but we are improving year on year. Nothing will happen over night but looking where we were 10 years ago to where we are now, its night and day.
Again you are stating your opinion as fact, where has Poch said he can turn him into a LB? You state in an other thread you want Howe, now you want Poch, 2 massively different managers. I have absolutely no problem with Poch going to United if he choses btw. You rate your signings higer than ours, even thou you as a team have been preforming worse than ours, and we haven't been playing that well. What proof exactly do you have that GLC wont settle?
As I said that is what the fans expect, but at least all fans are in harmony of what the expectations are.
It is not with lack of effort, we have made wrong decisions but we continually spend money and try different things to go back to the top. Pay higher wagers, Pay higher transfer fees
What do Spurs fans expect ? Top 4? Title Challenge? Cup run?
Ofcourse it is a major improvement from 10 years ago and it has come with decent buys like Bale, Modric who have gone for alot more money. The difference now is the fans won't have the same patience with new signings, as they expect bigger names to improve a very good side currently. You are now realising that improviing a good team into challenger is alot more difficult because players from abroad need time to settle just like Son, Moura, Lamela all did.
I don't think any Spurs fan expects a title challenge, even if we had a takeover and massive amounts of money to spend that's not the solution anymore as it used to be. Would like to see us winning a domestic trophy and stay as much in the top 4 as we can. You talk about fan expectations as if they are somehow going to change what Ed or the board want, it wont. The Glaziers took over with the idea to make money, have they paid off any capital of the debt you have? Do they look like they are going to sell anytime soon? Are they going to make £200-300M available to spend on transfers?
As for your fans in harmony, I would be surprised if any club had everyone singing off the same hymn sheet.
That’s highly debatable.
Coming from someone who is now don't believe in the manager. If there is a manager who can maximise the minimum resource and build a team is Poch.
So far you are just sticking in that top 4 achievement. No trophy but we won 3 trophies post SAF & Poch era.
However, those are not matter but just a past achievement, speaking about last 5 years achievement does not provide an evidence of what happen in the future.
You failed to utilise them at max & made improvement on other area when they were on their prime age. And now you are going to lose 3 of your main XI players means you have to start again next summer of the rebuilding process. Never underestimate of losing Trippier, Vert, Toby & Eriksen. It will hurt for sure to lose them in 2 summer windows.
Look at Liverpool. They hired the right manager in January, in that season they were out of top 6. A few signing in his rebuilding process, he was able to make it to top 4 & making improvement. What you did wasn't improvement. What Liverpool did was backing Klopp & making improvement year on year. That's what I call improvement.
I believe Poch is a top manager, he's my first choice of our next manager. If we have Poch & our resource to back him, we have potential to make the same case as Liverpool.
If you lose Poch. With losing Vert, Toby & Eriksen next summer, you will understand what I am talking about.
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