2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Red Dreams

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This is what I was talking about earlier when I said sanders is the only candidate with this theory of change.


A party that is a wholly owned entity of corporations will not enact policies that does not benefit its owners.
Its that simple.

If the party really wanted to help people as it claims, it would back Sanders 100% or another candidate that has his vision for ordinary people.

So it is not a matter of things being difficult to change because of the Senate or other excuses.

There simply is no will.

There really is no option other than Bernie Sanders for those of us that actually care about this country.
 
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sun_tzu

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The woman who's campaign is running on fighting billionaires is also in favour of billionaires
So she is saying she would increase their tax but not to the point it disinsetivises them from creating more wealth
That seems pretty reasonable and probably more popular (and achievable)than saying you re going to ban billionaires
 

Amarsdd

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What ? How so ?
If someone pays their fair share to the society (taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community etc) and becomes a billionaire then I don't have any problem with that and I think no one should. The problem with the billionaires now is that they don't pay their fair share, they don't treat their workers well, they harm the community they are in etc. That's the problem to solve, not just ban billionaires.
 

Sweet Square

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If someone pays their fair share to the society (taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community etc) and becomes a billionaire then I don't have any problem with that and I think no one should. The problem with the billionaires now is that they don't pay their fair share, they don't treat their workers well, they harm the community they are in etc. That's the problem to solve, not just ban billionaires.
And that would make you in favour of billionaires, right ? Which is my point about Warren.

But anyway onto the interesting part. How you do think people become billionaires(Or even multi millionaires)in the first place ? Why do you think Jeff Benzos treats amazons workers like crap ?, why you do think amazon is against a unionised work force ? Why does Amazon pay so little in tax ?

Someone can't be a billionaire while also paying taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community etc.



So she is saying she would increase their tax but not to the point it disinsetivises them from creating more wealth
That seems pretty reasonable and probably more popular (and achievable)than saying you re going to ban billionaires
Yeah this is horse shit.


That seems pretty reasonable and probably more popular (and achievable)than saying you re going to ban billionaires
Am I missing something who is saying ban billionaires ? The idea is to create a society where its impossible for someone to hold this much wealth, its not stopping Jeff Benzon going into starbucks.

As for Warren idea being more achievable, you do know the planet is dying due to climate change(Which is caused by well capitalism) and will cause millions of deaths and refugees. We are going to need mass structural change it avoid disaster on scale literally global scale.
 
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Eboue

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If someone pays their fair share to the society (taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community etc) and becomes a billionaire then I don't have any problem with that and I think no one should. The problem with the billionaires now is that they don't pay their fair share, they don't treat their workers well, they harm the community they are in etc. That's the problem to solve, not just ban billionaires.
That's one of the problems. Another is extreme sociopathic hoarding and selfishness while others suffer and die on a daily basis.
 

Amarsdd

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And that would make you in favour of billionaires, right ? Which is my point about Warren.
What? No. So you're saying if she says she wants teachers to do their job means she favours teachers who sexually harass their students as well?

But anyway onto the interesting part. How you do think people become billionaires(Or even multi millionaires)in the first place ? Why do you think Jeff Benzos treats amazons workers like crap ?, why you do think amazon is against a unionised work force ? Why does Amazon pay so little in tax ?

Someone can't be a billionaire while also paying taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community etc.

Like I was saying the billionaires we have now don't always do the right thing like you've mentioned as well. But if someone does become one doing all the right things then I'm not against it and I don't think anyone has the right to.
 

Suedesi

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And that would make you in favour of billionaires, right ? Which is my point about Warren.

But anyway onto the interesting part. How you do think people become billionaires(Or even multi millionaires)in the first place ? Why do you think Jeff Benzos treats amazons workers like crap ?, why you do think amazon is against a unionised work force ? Why does Amazon pay so little in tax ?

Someone can't be a billionaire while also paying taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community etc.

I give you Jan Koum and Brian Acton. Came up with a great little app sold it to another tech company and now they're worth about $7B each
 

Amarsdd

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That's one of the problems. Another is extreme sociopathic hoarding and selfishness while others suffer and die on a daily basis.
I agree. Philanthropy should also be one's duty when they have plenty.
 

Eboue

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I agree. Philanthropy should also be one's duty when they have plenty.
It shouldn't be up to one person to decide how such vast sums of money are spent. Its undemocratic. There needs to be a 100% tax after a certain point. Just imagine having 600 million dollars are thinking "this is not enough" . Its absolutely sociopathic.
 

Suedesi

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It shouldn't be up to one person to decide how such vast sums of money are spent. Its undemocratic. There needs to be a 100% tax after a certain point. Just imagine having 600 million dollars are thinking "this is not enough" . Its absolutely sociopathic.
Agree in theory, but how would you enforce it? Not trying to be funny, but let's say Beff Jezos owns 1M shares of Crapazon and those shares trades trade at $999. The moment the shares exceed $1,000 you'd force him to liquidate and tax those dollars at 100%?

No one keeps a Billion dollars in cash, wealth usually represents a stake in some entity that rises or falls with the market.
 

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What? No. So you're saying if she says she wants teachers to do their job means she favours teachers who sexually harass their students as well?


Like I was saying the billionaires we have now don't always do the right thing like you've mentioned as well. But if someone does become one doing all the right things then I'm not against it and I don't think anyone has the right to.
Yeah I don't think you are getting my point. You can't be a billionaire without doing all the awful shit you mentioned.


I give you Jan Koum and Brian Acton. Came up with a great little app sold it to another tech company and now they're worth about $7B each
But they sold it to Facebook right ? Which is a company that spies on all of us. Also isn't Koum a massive republican who loves Trump(At least Benzo is a liberal) ? I'm guessing the republican party is getting some nice Koum funds for 2020.

Again no one can make this much in wealth without getting their hands covered in absolute shit. Its the function of the system, not people being horrible individuals.

I agree. Philanthropy should also be one's duty when they have plenty.

 

Eboue

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Agree in theory, but how would you enforce it? Not trying to be funny, but let's say Beff Jezos owns 1M shares of Crapazon and those shares trades trade at $999. The moment the shares exceed $1,000 you'd force him to liquidate and tax those dollars at 100%?

No one keeps a Billion dollars in cash, wealth usually represents a stake in some entity that rises or falls with the market.
Yeah sure. Or just transfer whatever shares that put anyone over a line (which I think ought to be far less than 1 billion) to the government.
 

Suedesi

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But they sold it to Facebook right ? Which is a company that spies on all of us. Also isn't Koum a massive republican who loves Trump(At least Benzo is a liberal) ? I'm guessing the republican party is getting some nice Koum funds for 2020.
That has nothing to do with your initial point that 'Someone can't be a billionaire while also paying taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community etc.'
I'm sure the Youtube, Slack, Pinterest, AirBnB, Stripe, Epic Games, Bitmain, Wish, Infor, Nubank, Bytedance, Didi, Insta founders would provide further counterxemples
 

Suedesi

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Yeah sure. Or just transfer whatever shares that put anyone over a line (which I think ought to be far less than 1 billion) to the government.
Ok. If the stock drops to $998 the following day, the gov't would give back the excess shares?

I can just see how impractical and unworkable it would be in practice.
 

Eboue

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Ok. If the stock drops to $998 the following day, the gov't would give back the excess shares?

I can just see how impractical and unworkable it would be in practice.
Look, we don't have to figure this out in current events forum. There are plenty of professionals who manage things far more complicated. I'm sure they can make it work.
 

Sweet Square

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Shut up sweet square Ffs


That has nothing to do with your initial point that 'Someone can't be a billionaire while also paying taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community etc.'
I'm sure the Youtube, Slack, Pinterest, AirBnB, Stripe, Epic Games, Bitmain, Wish, Infor, Nubank, Bytedance, Didi, Insta founders would provide further counterxemples
What does the development of community mean to you ? I'm not arguing the only way to be a billionaire is to use the Jeff Benzo model but that someone can only be a billionaire through mass exploitation(Which comes in many forms). If you make a app and then sell it off to company that spies on people(Prism program), spends huge amount on lobbying, treats its non-salaried workers as dirt then you are taking part in exploitation on a mass scale..

Also then if Klum is giving money to the republican party(Which seeing he's political view he might well be)then of he's fighting against taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community.

As for your counter examples that same still applies(At least off the top of my head)Youtube, AirBnB, Instagram.
 
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Suedesi

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While I have a lot of respect for what Amazon has achieved as a company in the space of 30 years (starting up with an idea and completely revolutionizing e-commerce), also lately, I have a lot less respect for some of the things they're doing.

I think they may be a net negative on society given a number of things like the pressure they put in the system and the fact they don't pay federal income tax (and I know they say we're doing what's within the law) but I think there should be more corporate responsibility in the world, and companies that generate $Billions in revenues have an obligation to pay taxes.

Aside from that I feel that given their largesse, they could afford to pay their workers a lot better and do other things (I mean fecking Bezos wouldn't select NYC as HQ2 unless he got billions in subsidies from the state? feckoff you bald prick, go build it in North Dakota and go have a nice time in Duluth!!!)

Amazon also put undue pressure on small businesses and sort of dominate the market - e.g 97% of books in the US are sold through amazon. I don't think that's good. Even though it's convenient to buy and they've made the user experience fantastic (can't fault them for running an amazing tight ship and being so focused on the customer) it still feels that things are a little better in the world when there are more options than fewer options and generally speaking amazon has reduced the number of options people typically have these days.
 

The Firestarter

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What does the development of community mean to you ? I'm not arguing the only way to be a billionaire is to use the Jeff Benzo model but that someone can only be a billionaire through mass exploitation(Which comes in many forms). If you make a app and then sell it off to company that spies on people(Prism program), spends huge amount on lobbying, treats its non-salaried workers as dirt then you are taking part in exploitation on a mass scale..

Also then if Klum is giving money to the republican party(Which seeing he's political view he might well be)then of he's fighting against taxes, good worker salaries, benefits, development of the community.

As for your counter examples that same still applies(At least off the top of my head)Youtube, AirBnB, Instagram.
The companies were forced by the government into the prism program . It's not like they voluntarily spied on their users .
 

Carolina Red

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Agree in theory, but how would you enforce it? Not trying to be funny, but let's say Beff Jezos owns 1M shares of Crapazon and those shares trades trade at $999. The moment the shares exceed $1,000 you'd force him to liquidate and tax those dollars at 100%?

No one keeps a Billion dollars in cash, wealth usually represents a stake in some entity that rises or falls with the market.
Or just a high marginal tax rate on incomes above X and a high capital gains tax on capital gains above Y.
 

freeurmind

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Guys, the Dems should avoid going too far to the left so that they can flip these Trump voters.
 
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