2021 Summer Olympics (Tokyo)

Gio

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So three guys beat an almost 3 decades old world record in the same race. You can either link that to the fast track and new spikes which give them a substantial advantage compared to athletes in the past, or you can suspect them all three individually for doping themselves seperately from each other, in the same discipline, and all without getting caught by the numerous doping controls they've had to do. Not to mention that the gold medalist almost ran a sub 46 one month ago as well.

Yeaahhhhh okay gimme the first one
Irrespective of doping - which has always been around and as much of a suspicion when the previous record was set - it's probably a combination of factors:
  • Spikes - they're destroying the longer distance records that the times are almost irrelevant. For instance I'd say Bekele's 12.37 or Gebrselessie's 12.39 from 20-25 years ago, is worth more than Cheptegui's 12.31 in trampoline spikes and wave-light pacing. The unknown though is how much of an impact they are having on the sprints. Nothing in the men's 100/200 suggests they're having a big impact, although the women's times are exceptionally fast, but it's interesting that both 400m hurdles events' records have gone recently and perhaps there's an additional advantage in the hurdles.
  • Track - tends to generate more marginal improvements over time, as opposed to the step change we're seeing with the spikes. I think the super-hard tracks of the 1990s at Toyko and Atlanta in particular really pushed times on in comparison to previous eras, but nowadays every major championship has a fast track so the difference is not as jumpy, but more marginal and gradual
  • Competition - it's the longest standing men's track record so has been overdue for getting broken and it's more about having the right talent jostling to break it. If we track recent performances, Warholm has been peppering the record for some time now, suggesting he's capable of 46.5/6 on a good day. Same for Benjamin really. Moses clocked 47.02 in 1980, so the fact it had only gone to 46.78 in the 40 years since suggests it was ripe for a bigger improvement. It's a bit like Pietro Mennea's 200m record of 19.72 that stood from the 1970s until Johnson smashed it with 19.32, and Fredericks also clocked 19.6 in the same race. Or Bannister's sub-4-minute mile and within a year a bunch had gone under. When a record is a bit soft, it's not uncommon for it to be destroyed.
Imagine the spikes have contributed at least 0.3 - 0.4 of a second there though. Wouldn't be surprised to see the women's record fall by a margin as well.
 

Carolina Red

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There was a show on the BBC a month or so ago about Helen Glover, British rower (probably still on the BBC IPlayer).

She won a rowing gold in 2012 and 2016 (as well as a shedload of other titles) then retired.

Had a baby in 2018 and twins in 2020. Then decided to try and come back but due to COVID/lockdown, trained by herself, no coaches.

Her and her husband videoed her progress through 2020 and 2021 on hand held cameras - a mix of mental training (rowers really work?!) and helping bring up a 2/3 year old and baby twins. There was one point when one was teething and she slept on the bedroom floor so she could rub it’s back, then got up at Silly o’clock to go rowing.

Selected for GB rowing team, came back at the 2021 Euros (won it), then made the Olympic final, came fourth… at 35.

Her rowing partners story was pretty cool too… took a break from rowing in 2020 to go back to work as a doctor at a hospital and help out because of COVID.
What a legend!
 

Withnail

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Nice one! I go to The Wall (in Sandyford) two or three times a week. Tend to hit one of the other gyms once a week as well, to keep things interesting. Was in Gravity a couple of weeks back. They always have interesting problems. The current blue set is very cool.
Gravity is great. Agree about their problems and I love the vibe there. Awesome walls I found a little cold both in temperature and atmosphere.

I think it'll be a while before I get anywhere near the blues!
 
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Irrespective of doping - which has always been around and as much of a suspicion when the previous record was set - it's probably a combination of factors:
  • Spikes - they're destroying the longer distance records that the times are almost irrelevant. For instance I'd say Bekele's 12.37 or Gebrselessie's 12.39 from 20-25 years ago, is worth more than Cheptegui's 12.31 in trampoline spikes and wave-light pacing. The unknown though is how much of an impact they are having on the sprints. Nothing in the men's 100/200 suggests they're having a big impact, although the women's times are exceptionally fast, but it's interesting that both 400m hurdles events' records have gone recently and perhaps there's an additional advantage in the hurdles.
  • Track - tends to generate more marginal improvements over time, as opposed to the step change we're seeing with the spikes. I think the super-hard tracks of the 1990s at Toyko and Atlanta in particular really pushed times on in comparison to previous eras, but nowadays every major championship has a fast track so the difference is not as jumpy, but more marginal and gradual
  • Competition - it's the longest standing men's track record so has been overdue for getting broken and it's more about having the right talent jostling to break it. If we track recent performances, Warholm has been peppering the record for some time now, suggesting he's capable of 46.5/6 on a good day. Same for Benjamin really. Moses clocked 47.02 in 1980, so the fact it had only gone to 46.78 in the 40 years since suggests it was ripe for a bigger improvement. It's a bit like Pietro Mennea's 200m record of 19.72 that stood from the 1970s until Johnson smashed it with 19.32, and Fredericks also clocked 19.6 in the same race. Or Bannister's sub-4-minute mile and within a year a bunch had gone under. When a record is a bit soft, it's not uncommon for it to be destroyed.
Imagine the spikes have contributed at least 0.3 - 0.4 of a second there though. Wouldn't be surprised to see the women's record fall by a margin as well.
All of this and some records depend on WHO set them.

Most records will get broken every year/few years from natural human athletic progression.

When you get top top talents (like Ed Moses), they tend to push the record a lot further out because they're SO much better so it can take longer to break.

Also depends on the length of race? Anything up to 400 means should be running at full pelt. After that, generational competition and tactics come in which is probably part of the reason Hicham El Guerrouj's 1500 has stood for ages when it was getting broken almost every week (it seemed) during the brilliant-to-watch Coe/Ovett/Cram era ... (1) they were top and (2) they drove each other on.
 

RobinLFC

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Would be such a shame if Lavillenie is out :(
 

Ayush_reddevil

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Would be interesting to know the average cost of training to be an Olympic athlete in various sports . I was watching track cycling and they were mentioning how these bikes that they are using are like 25-30000 pounds. Obviously there’s other money spent on uniform etc to maintain aerodynamics. Not really a surprise that it remains a sport that only the really rich nations can compete in
 

iammemphis

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Im assuming it has been said here, but aren't all these records falling because of the new Nike shoes all these athletes are running in? Over 10,000m it shaves over a minute off a personal best. Its the equivalent of having springs in the heel. There has been huge uproar over the legality of them over the past year or so as records will tumble with their use.
 

Deery

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Im assuming it has been said here, but aren't all these records falling because of the new Nike shoes all these athletes are running in? Over 10,000m it shaves over a minute off a personal best. Its the equivalent of having springs in the heel. There has been huge uproar over the legality of them over the past year or so as records will tumble with their use.
Isn’t that on road races the Super Fly’s is it the same for track and field don’t they use spikes?
 

Amir

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Athletes who slow down in a semi final annoy me as hell. You've got another full day until the final, the extra effort won't kill you.
 

Adam-Utd

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Im assuming it has been said here, but aren't all these records falling because of the new Nike shoes all these athletes are running in? Over 10,000m it shaves over a minute off a personal best. Its the equivalent of having springs in the heel. There has been huge uproar over the legality of them over the past year or so as records will tumble with their use.
Interestingly apparently Warholm isn't using the Nike shoes that are in question - so that rules it out.
 

Agent Red

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Athletes who slow down in a semi final annoy me as hell. You've got another full day until the final, the extra effort won't kill you.
Two of them have been burnt by it now. Unless you know you’re miles ahead it seems such a needless risk. Lyles even leaned back as he went over the line.
 

RobinLFC

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Im assuming it has been said here, but aren't all these records falling because of the new Nike shoes all these athletes are running in? Over 10,000m it shaves over a minute off a personal best. Its the equivalent of having springs in the heel. There has been huge uproar over the legality of them over the past year or so as records will tumble with their use.
Got any evidence of that? Seems highly unlikely to me that it's that much, even half a minute would be quite ridiculous.
 

giorno

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De Grasse 19.7 while slowing down...

Track and shoes having a very real effect
 

pauldyson1uk

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Im assuming it has been said here, but aren't all these records falling because of the new Nike shoes all these athletes are running in? Over 10,000m it shaves over a minute off a personal best. Its the equivalent of having springs in the heel. There has been huge uproar over the legality of them over the past year or so as records will tumble with their use.
I only have a passing interest, but is it not just a case of equipment improving, helping records tumble, they still have to put in massive amounts of work
 

Deery

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BBC were saying the track is also designed to be the fastest track ever made with plenty of extra spring, could be a reason we are seeing such fast times..
 

iammemphis

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iammemphis

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Isn’t that on road races the Super Fly’s is it the same for track and field don’t they use spikes?
Someone being interviewed on talksport said Bolt will be fuming with his records being beaten in the future due to the design of these new shoes, so i assumed when i heard this that they were being used in track too? Or maybe he meant more that his image as a one of specimen of natural greatness will look more ordinary as time goes on as his times become normal compared to other distances. I don't know really. :lol:
 

iammemphis

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Don't know if that was solely the shoes though right
Well yeah, but literally so many distances are having world records set in them. That same article says the 5000m mens race had a WR recently in them too. Athletes say, accoring to that article again, that they are gaining 5-15 seconds on their old personal bests in them over 5000m.
 

Deery

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Someone being interviewed on talksport said Bolt will be fuming with his records being beaten in the future due to the design of these new shoes, so i assumed when i heard this that they were being used in track too? Or maybe he meant more that his image as a one of specimen of natural greatness will look more ordinary as time goes on as his times become normal compared to other distances. I don't know really. :lol:
I know the Super Fly’s are a big game changer and people were asking for them to be banned for distance running but I suppose technology has come so far track shoes must have some sort of advantage as well..
 

RobinLFC

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Well yeah, but literally so many distances are having world records set in them. That same article says the 5000m mens race had a WR recently in them too. Athletes say, accoring to that article again, that they are gaining 5-15 seconds on their old personal bests in them over 5000m.
Which would still be half a minute on the 10.000m MAX. I'm willing to believe that, but no one shaves a minute of his 5k or 10k PB just by putting on the Dragonfly's, that simply doesn't happen.

They give an advantage to the athletes, that much is certain, but it's minimum. Most report a 0.3-0.5" difference over a 400m race. I wonder if they'll be forbidden in the future just like the Speedo swimming suits were. The WRs set in those look unbeatable right now as well.
 

Ayush_reddevil

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That is so so heartbreaking for Reekie who did an unbelievable time . What a run by Hodgkinson though, absolutely magnificent
 

Deery

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Has anyone followed Piers Morgan’s berating of elite athletes on Twitter, he’s such a tosser hope no one hires him again…
 

RoadTrip

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Reading about Mboma’s ban in the 400m. Struggling to understand if her testosterone levels are NATURALLY too high, how can that be bannable? That’s like saying Bolt should be banned for having unnaturally quick legs for someone so tall.
 

SirAnderson

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Duplantis neaaaarly got the WR for pole vault. First attempt he was so high but just clipped it coming down with his body.
Already got gold, and just trying to get the WR.
Intense stuff.
 

Withnail

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All of this and some records depend on WHO set them.

Most records will get broken every year/few years from natural human athletic progression.

When you get top top talents (like Ed Moses), they tend to push the record a lot further out because they're SO much better so it can take longer to break.

Also depends on the length of race? Anything up to 400 means should be running at full pelt. After that, generational competition and tactics come in which is probably part of the reason Hicham El Guerrouj's 1500 has stood for ages when it was getting broken almost every week (it seemed) during the brilliant-to-watch Coe/Ovett/Cram era ... (1) they were top and (2) they drove each other on.
What do you mean by natural human athletic progression?

People can't just keep getting faster and faster forever.