3-4-3 formation

[settembrini]

What did people think of our formation and tactics against Liverpool?

Given we have been using 4-2-3-1 every game this season I was very surprised to see the change today, especially as we went to quite an esoteric formation and not a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2.

The average position of our starting XI was something like this:

Rashford Pereira James
Young Fred McTominay Wan-Bissaka
Rojo Maguire Lindelof
De Gea

Pereira seems to be becoming a favourite of Solskjaer and he was given a key role today. When Liverpool had the ball he was leading our press and when we had it he was the link man in attack with Rashford and James trying to exploit space between Liverpool's attacking full backs and their CBs. I don't think he is good enough to play this role long term but it certainly suits him a lot more than right wing.

It will be interesting to see if we persist with it going forwards or if it was a one off that they had planned to surprise Liverpool with.

 

[OohAahMartial]

They had plenty of time to prepare for this game, and I rather suspect that it was a formation just to deal with the specific threats of Liverpool, rather than a sign of giving up on the 4-2-3-1. It made sense with Liverpool's wing threat, which we nullified in particular in the 1st hour.

Pereira did much the same as Lingard does in the same role, neither ultimately good enough there as they lack goals, but he pressed great and played some intelligent passes, albeit sloppy at times.

 

[starman]

Given what we have available, 3 at the back is my preference. We definitely should be making use of the defenders we have giving us a strong base knowing the weakness in midfield that is there.

3-4-3
DDG
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire
Dalot Mctominay Pogba Shaw
James Martial Rashford

3-4-1-2
DDG
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire
Dalot Mctominay Fred Shaw
Pogba
Martial Rashford/James​

 

[Beans]

I loved it, if we hadn't given up the initiative after scoring we probably would have won. But I would call it a 352. Allowing both strikers to go wide or narrow means a lot of open spaces for balls over the top, and we were better able to deal with the opponent in central midfield. Not sure how we fit James with Rashford and Martial in this formation, though.

 

[Superunknown]

They had plenty of time to prepare for this game, and I rather suspect that it was a formation just to deal with the specific threats of Liverpool, rather than a sign of giving up on the 4-2-3-1. It made sense with Liverpool's wing threat, which we nullified in particular in the 1st hour.

Pereira did much the same as Lingard does in the same role, neither ultimately good enough there as they lack goals, but he pressed great and played some intelligent passes, albeit sloppy at times.

I have to agree, I think we set it up specifically for this game. Tactically, I think Ole got it right and it's unfortunate that a few individual errors stopped us at the end from getting the win.

I wouldn't be adverse to seeing more 3-4-3/3-5-2 formations this season, depending on the opposition and depending on who we have available. It's actually quite heartening in way to know that Ole has it in him to set up teams in a way to nullify certain threats. It at least shows that he has some tactical nous about him.

 

[TheGodsInRed]

Not sure we have good enough wing backs to play this formation effectively against lesser teams. Worked okay against Liverpool today but the wing backs were basically full backs and we played 5 at the back and hit on the counter.

When we need to be more progressive we don’t have the quality out wide such as Alexander-Arnold and Robertson. Wan-Bassaka and Shaw would need to improve offensively as they are both very good full backs, but not wing backs.

 

[VP89]

This 352 formation is absolutely the way forward.

Lindelof-Maguire-Tuanzebe are a capable trio, AWB actually looks very comfortable on the right flank and I have little concern about Shaw as a wing-back.

Our midfield is dire, the best way forward is to give them support with numbers. Fred and Pereira looked a bit more comfortable with the former able to keep it simple easier and the latter just bustling around with extra bite into players which he couldn't do when isolated on the wing.

Plus the front 2 being closer together means Rashford isn't left alone. He can lay off James/Martial and vice versa.


But, this is Ole, and I wouldn't be surprised with a 4321 versus Norwich.

 

[Roboc7]

We don’t have fullbacks who are good going forward let alone players who can be can be good attacking wingbacks. That’s a huge issue and having 5 defenders on pitch instead of four probably isn’t going to help us score goals.

In all fairness whatever formation we have is going to struggle week in week out when all our tactics revolve around counter attacks.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Not sure we have good enough wing backs to play this formation effectively against lesser teams. Worked okay against Liverpool today but the wing backs were basically full backs and we played 5 at the back and hit on the counter.

When we need to be more progressive we don’t have the quality out wide such as Alexander-Arnold and Robertson. Wan-Bassaka and Shaw would need to improve offensively as they are both very good full backs, but not wing backs.

No, our wing backs played very high in the 1st hour when we played 3-4-3, but after Oxlade came on Liverpool started to gain control of the central midfield and possession, which shows the weakness of the 3-4-3, so first Pereira dropped deeper to help them, and the wing backs also went deeper, making it a 5-3-2, and that was a park the bus and counter system, which did lead to some good counters, but invited them onto us so he tried to completely shut up shop with moving James back for a 5-4-1. Ideally we would have some actual experienced decent midfielders to bring on, but we didn't.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I'm actually surprised we haven't been doing this sooner, as it solves our winger problem. Much better than forcing 10s like Mata and Pereira out wide. Screw it, lets just bring lvg back..

 

[VP89]

We don’t have fullbacks who are good going forward let alone players who can be can be good attacking wingbacks. That’s a huge issue and having 5 defenders on pitch instead of four probably isn’t going to help us score goals.

In all fairness whatever formation we have is going to struggle week in week out when all our tactics revolve around counter attacks.

You say that, but today I took AWB as an example of a "defender" who was way more offensive than I've ever seen him in a United shirt. And he gave a couple of good deliveries in the box too. Forget the traditional position and look at the system. It has the potential to get the best out of the team, bringing Pereira centrally, allowing Shaw and AWB license to overlap the wings and allowing potential for Rashford to interlink with a partner upfront, rather than try it all on his own.

 

[Ekeke]

Liverpool's fullbacks were slightly further up the pitch than ours were. United left, Liverpool right :

I wouldnt think of Liverpool's formation as 2-5-3 and nor do I think its correct to say we were 3-4-3

 

[Sultan]

I agree with a number of posters who have reservations about playing with wingbacks. AvB is not really comfortable or good enough going forward. I would think Dalot would work out better in that role.

 

[::sonny::]

When you have bad defenders and a bad squad in general, you have to play with 3 cbs

 

[Champagne Football]

3412 makes a whole lot of sense because -
- Rashford and James are brilliant and the only 2 forwards we can rely on.
- Pogba will get to play further forward which is his best position.
- Tuanzebe simply has to be in the first XI
- Central midfield is our weak spot and if Fred can continue do a job beside McTominay for now, then we can hopefully grind out some results, even though we'd create so many more chances and play much more fluid, if we had a proper DLP.

 

[Irwin99]

Worked really well for this game but not convinced it will break down smaller teams. At this point though I'm thrilled we're trying something different other than the dreaded 4-2-3-1. As others have said, Dalot as a wingback and AWB tucked further inside might work.

 

[sherrinford]

When you have bad defenders and a bad squad in general, you have to play with 3 cbs

Why?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I liked it. Reminded me of when we played Chelsea and beat them 2-0, with goals coming from Rashford and Herrera. Think as some have said, I feel it was used for Liverpool, in order to nullify their full backs.

Who knows, though. Having two up top is something I want to see. I also think our centre backs, as you said, have the ability to bring the ball into midfield so it allows us to create overloads all over the pitch.

 

[7even]

3412 makes a whole lot of sense because -
- Rashford and James are brilliant and the only 2 forwards we can rely on.
- Pogba will get to play further forward which is his best position.
- Tuanzebe simply has to be in the first XI
- Central midfield is our weak spot and if Fred can continue do a job beside McTominay for now, then we can hopefully grind out some results, even though we'd create so many more chances and play much more fluid, if we had a proper DLP.

This is my preferred formation too. Pogba and Tuanzebe instead of Lindelöf and Periera. Martial, James and Rashford can rotate. A new dm and a strong striker in the January window will also help.

 

[2 man midfield]

The issue for me is we need far better players in a lot of positions to make it work. But then this is true of all positions, so yeah. I liked what I saw today though, it suited our counter attacking style and nullified their wide players. We'll need at least one of AWB or Young to suddenly get good going forward for it to work against the lower teams though, and it would be useful if we had a number 10 that wasn't allergic to goals. I like it on paper though.

 

[Champagne Football]

This is my preferred formation too. Pogba and Tuanzebe instead of Lindelöf and Periera. Martial, James and Rashford can rotate. A new dm and a strong striker in the January window will also help.

For now I'd keep Lindelof. Wan-Bissaka is thriving as a wing back or full back. I'm not sure Dalot is an upgrade on Lindelof right now, even though Lindelof can be shakey at times. And I wonder would Wan-Bissakas ability to nullify lightening quick wingers be missed, if we moved him into the back 3.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Find a formation and players that make it easier for us to break down teams in the final third and would make us able to keep the ball.

 

[Snow]

It was a defensive formation to counter Liverpool's tactics. Don't think Ole would have a played like that with a fit squad.

 

[Leftback99]

It's never going to offer enough against the parked buses we face most weeks.

Rashford LW, Martial CF and James RW basically picks itself up front for now. The midfield combination is the issue, number 10 with two behind? two number 8s with a single DM? We don't quite have the personnel right for any (neither a good 10 or a 6).

 

[Skills]

Good for parking the bus (playing 5 defenders usually is). Won't win us games but we don't do that with our other set up anyway.

 

[LoCalXT]

It was Liverpool specific I believe.
I must have been the only one among my friends that was confident going into the match. Our problem has and will be teams that park the bus. Teams that play open attacking football play right into our strengths

 

[eltigreFalcao]

Saw a lot of positives in today's formation, imo it got the best out of some players who were not playing good of late. I've been watching this season's Antonio Conte's Inter and I can see our current squad improving a lot if some of those tactics were in place. A complementary front two in Lautaro and Lukaku, a pair of wing backs that are not better than ours, a midfield three which places one or two midfielders in scoring positions as in Sensi, and 3 CBs, a position we actually have got a lot in numbers.

De Gea
Lindelof - Maguire - Tuanzebe
AWB --------------Fred-------------- Shaw
McT ---------- Pogba
Rashford - Martial
​

A 3-5-2 where Pogba have more freedom to go further up the pitch and Step in scoring/creating positions, as that's what he can do the best. Rashford and Martial are indoubtedly our best attacking players and they can swicht and roam in more wide areas creating space for Pogba or another attacking midfielder in the likes of Pereira and Lingard (at least until we can upgrade on them). Greenwood and James could come in for Rhaford / Martial as subs or when injuries hit.

Seems legit, innit?

 

[SweetRightFoot]

I've been calling for this formation all season as it is, by far, the best fit for our squad. Highlights our strengths and covers our weaknesses. Against teams who sit back we bring Martial and Pogba in to unlock teams and put James and Dalot in at WB for their delivery.

Was so pleasantly suprised when we lined up like that as I knew it would get the best out of us. Hope ole's got the balls to use it again and not go back to the outdated 4-5-1 with Matic and Mata stinking up the place.

 

[SambaBoy]

It worked well against Liverpool as we were able to counter and our attacks started from deep. It meant James and Rashford could start centrally and drift into the space out wide left by their marauding full-backs.

Against the majority of teams we play, we won't be afforded that luxury. Our attacks will be starting from the half way line and our front two will be in at most a 10 yard space between CB and DM. Their won't be any room left by their full-backs.

In addition, one of Rashford, James or Martial would miss out. They are probably our 3 most dangerous player so makes sense to get them on the pitch when we can. I did like the formation today and thought it suited us well in the game. It's definitely good to have another option and at the minute we are not exactly playing breaking teams down so why not give it a go.

 

[Green_Red]

We played 541 today, not sure how you saw 343. At some points we were 55.

 

[MisterLupus]

We looked better today than we've done in ages - especially considering our opposition. Solid in the back and at times dangerous up front - we equaled them in midfield too for most of the match (those last thirty minutes being the exception but that's to be expected when you have such a good team chasing and even then we did our best to get that second goal which would have won it).

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I liked it. Reminded me of when we played Chelsea and beat them 2-0, with goals coming from Rashford and Herrera. Think as some have said, I feel it was used for Liverpool, in order to nullify their full backs.

Who knows, though. Having two up top is something I want to see. I also think our centre backs, as you said, have the ability to bring the ball into midfield so it allows us to create overloads all over the pitch.

That game against Chelsea was the first time in a long time that we actually played a 4-4-2 (it wasn't a 3-5-2). It was a very "SAF" like formation by Mourinho that day. Herrara was playing on the right wing man marking Hazard with Young on the left wing and Rashford and Lingard up top. The midfield pairing was Pogba and Fellaini and that back 4 were Valencia, Bailley, Rojo and Darmien...

 

[RussellWilson]

Not sure it will be much use against most teams. There just won't be space to exploit and we'll end up going backwards and side ways with the ball.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Surprised at people for thinking a formation change will fix anything. Of course it worked against Liverpool..... they pushed forward and left gaps for our very quick players to counter. Do you honestly believe that this is atypical of most EPL games? of course not. We suffer more when other teams are behind the ball than when we are.

 

[Obiorahking_]

I liked it, I thought it we did a lot less of that side to side bs in our play

 

[Freak]

Think it works well against stronger teams but against teams that sit back we don’t need 5 defenders.

 

[el3mel]

Good only for that game because we approached defensively but it won't work on the long run. Maguire and Lindelof are decent with the ball but not to the point of consistently making forward runs to share in build up in midfield, they might do it one or 2 times a game but that's about it, also our fullback are useless going forward and our midfield is shite in attacking.

 

[Okey]

I'm just happy to see a change in formation, as an indication of tactical flexibility. We don't have to have only one way of playing. It can be varied depending on the opposition. Ole was tactically spot on today. Our undoing remains the quality of our personnel. We need to get better ones, and naturally the team will perform better whatever the formation. Just think if we had better players than Young, Fred, Rojo and Perreira today, in exactly the same formation. Would have been a much better performance (I don't say result cos those can be freaky). In summary, we need better players, and quickly too!

 

[The_Midfielder]

Saw a lot of positives in today's formation, imo it got the best out of some players who were not playing good of late. I've been watching this season's Antonio Conte's Inter and I can see our current squad improving a lot if some of those tactics were in place. A complementary front two in Lautaro and Lukaku, a pair of wing backs that are not better than ours, a midfield three which places one or two midfielders in scoring positions as in Sensi, and 3 CBs, a position we actually have got a lot in numbers.

De Gea
Lindelof - Maguire - Tuanzebe
AWB --------------Fred-------------- Shaw
McT ---------- Pogba
Rashford - Martial
​

A 3-5-2 where Pogba have more freedom to go further up the pitch and Step in scoring/creating positions, as that's what he can do the best. Rashford and Martial are indoubtedly our best attacking players and they can swicht and roam in more wide areas creating space for Pogba or another attacking midfielder in the likes of Pereira and Lingard (at least until we can upgrade on them). Greenwood and James could come in for Rhaford / Martial as subs or when injuries hit.

Seems legit, innit?

May be put James in place of Shaw against smaller teams?

 

[eltigreFalcao]

May be put James in place of Shaw against smaller teams?

Yes. For me James' still developing his final passing/crossing, something I really hope he improves. He could play in a number of positions in that scheme. I still think he should be used more often as a game changing substitute, something we lacked of today against Pool.