3-5-2 formation this season for United?

[Bestietom]

I was questioning why we are after a LB like Telles or Reguilon but if we did shift to a 352 or 343 depending on signings it would make sense.

I just wonder if say we get Sancho would Ole really drop Rashford and play Sancho behind Martial or would he maybe not play with a DM and just go full throttle and stick Pogba and Fernandes central and not play with a Dm.

DDG
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
bissaka/Lai——Pogba—Bruno—-Telles/williams
Sancho-Martial-Rashford
​

That’s a proper FIFA muppets dream, personally think we would need a DM so sacrificing Rashford to put Matic or something in or if we don’t get Sancho then it’s just two up top Martial and Rashford.

DDG
Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Bissaka/Laird———Fred/Matic——-Williams/Telles
Pogba————--Bruno
Martial-Rashy​

Bottom one is best, But Greenwood has to play instead of Martial while he is suspended.

 

[JPRouve]

We drew at home to liverpool 1-1 and nearly won it. We beat city 2-1 away, 1-0 away (cup) and 2-0 at home playing it. How is that not improving? If we had approached those games with the 4231 I guarantee you we don't do as well.

I'm not advocating we go to 352 forever. But id 110% switch for the next 6 weeks if I were Ole or he might be out of a job.

The City away game was with a back four in a 442. We "almost" beat Liverpool but also comprehensively lost 2-0 against them in a back three. We beat Chelsea, Leicester, Spurs, Wolves and City with a back four too.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The City away game was with a back four in a 442. We "almost" beat Liverpool but also comprehensively lost 2-0 against them in a back three. We beat Chelsea, Leicester, Spurs, Wolves and City with a back four too.

So you're saying carry on with 4 at the back regardless even though it's clearly not working ???

 

[JPRouve]

So you're saying carry on with 4 at the back regardless even though it's clearly not working ???

You seemingly realized your mistake?

And the back four is what we played during our best periods, it's also what we played 90% of the time with the same win rate, the issue isn't that we play with a back four but how we play as a team. Going to a back three won't improve the way we play in transition and our defensive record was almost exclusively based on a back four.

 

[Bestietom]

I do think that Ole will go 3-5-2 in some of our upcoming games, especially in Champions League.

 

[Castia]

We've conceded 11 goals in 3 league games and it really should be about 16 goals in reality. How is that not worse?

We all want the team to play 'the united way' but when you're not playing well, defending badly and lacking confidence you have to solidify the defence. You have to protect it. If we continue as we have been doing we're going to carry on losing games and looking vulnerable.

There’s a bigger issue at play if we’re at that point though. We had one of the best defensive records in Europe last season and the personnel hasn’t changed.

’We’re leaking goals let’s setup defensively‘ wont really wash with me looking at our squad we shouldn’t need to be in that position.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

You seemingly realized your mistake?

And the back four is what we played during our best periods, it's also what we played 90% of the time with the same win rate, the issue isn't that we play with a back four but how we play as a team. Going to a back three won't improve the way we play in transition and our defensive record was almost exclusively based on a back four.

We played 5 at the back in the 2-0 win versus City and got a clean sheet. You're right we played 4 at the back away, my mistake, but we conceded a goal so what's your point?

We've conceded 11 goals in 3 games mate and it should be 16 really. We need to change stuff up even just for a short period of time.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

There’s a bigger issue at play if we’re at that point though. We had one of the best defensive records in Europe last season and the personnel hasn’t changed.

’We’re leaking goals let’s setup defensively‘ wont really wash with me looking at our squad we shouldn’t need to be in that position.

Losing games doesn't wash with any of us though. If we get battered by Chelsea n Arsenal are you going to be happier because we played 4 at the back and stuck to our principles than if we played 352 and perhaps got some decent results? Of course you're not.

What ole does is up to him but when you're conceding lots of goals and confidence is low.....it doesn't strike me as a good time to carry on regardless. Teams have that 4231 formation sussed. They know we always play it and they know how to exploit it.

 

[Chief123]

Losing games doesn't wash with any of us though. If we get battered by Chelsea n Arsenal are you going to be happier because we played 4 at the back and stuck to our principles than if we played 352 and perhaps got some decent results? Of course you're not.

What ole does is up to him but when you're conceding lots of goals and confidence is low.....it doesn't strike me as a good time to carry on regardless. Teams have that 4231 formation sussed. They know we always play it and they know how to exploit it.

Chelsea also sussed out us playing 3 at the back against them last season. We tried it for a 3rd time against them in the FA cup and got spanked.

352 is not a solution as a default formation. Only works in some situations in big games away from home. We can’t just apply it as a standard template for the next 6 games.

 

[Bestietom]

There’s a bigger issue at play if we’re at that point though. We had one of the best defensive records in Europe last season and the personnel hasn’t changed.

’We’re leaking goals let’s setup defensively‘ wont really wash with me looking at our squad we shouldn’t need to be in that position.

Manager and coaches should make amends and do something to change this, let it be the backline or midfield.
Playing 2 in front of backline could help, or getting wingers to track back. But it is all down to picking the right 11 for games and changing when things are not going well.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

And the back four is what we played during our best periods, it's also what we played 90% of the time with the same win rate, the issue isn't that we play with a back four but how we play as a team. Going to a back three won't improve the way we play in transition and our defensive record was almost exclusively based on a back four.

And you don't think opposition managers have now worked out that's what we're doing? They have seen it too many times. We play with wide forwards rather than wingers so our fullbacks are exposed. We have a lack of pace at CB so they play over the top and in behind.

Teams have worked out how to stop us now and it's blatantly obvious.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Chelsea also sussed out us playing 3 at the back against them last season. We tried it for a 3rd time against them in the FA cup and got spanked.

352 is not a solution as a default formation. Only works in some situations in big games away from home. We can’t just apply it as a standard template for the next 6 games.

Yeah because us resting 4 key players didn't impact that result right? If you remember we had 2 days rest so Ole was forced to ring the changes. Chelsea had 4 days rest.

 

[Castia]

Losing games doesn't wash with any of us though. If we get battered by Chelsea n Arsenal are you going to be happier because we played 4 at the back and stuck to our principles than if we played 352 and perhaps got some decent results? Of course you're not.

What ole does is up to him but when you're conceding lots of goals and confidence is low.....it doesn't strike me as a good time to carry on regardless. Teams have that 4231 formation sussed. They know we always play it and they know how to exploit it.

Well if he changes it and still loses whilst offering up the god awful 352 we’ve played before then he should probably walk. I feel changing to that system tells the fans and media we aren’t good enough and puts us on the back foot from the off.

I’ve wanted him to drop the #10 role and play a solid 433 system, if he’s gonna change it up at least go for something positive imo.

 

[Chief123]

Yeah because us resting 4 key players didn't impact that result right? If you remember we had 2 days rest so Ole was forced to ring the changes. Chelsea had 4 days rest.

If “key players” being missing is key to the 352 formation working then we are screwed already as we don’t have Martial available.

 

[JPRouve]

We played 5 at the back in the 2-0 win versus City and got a clean sheet. You're right we played 4 at the back away, my mistake, but we conceded a goal so what's your point?

We've conceded 11 goals in 3 games mate and it should be 16 really. We need to change stuff up even just for a short period of time.

We conceded a goal on a corner, so I return your question what is your point?

Adding a defender doesn't fix our issues in transition, it doesn't fix our positioning problems and it doesn't fix Maguire's and Shaw's individual mistakes or Wan Bissaka poor performances and It doesn't fix the fact that we barely created chances. We don't need to change stuffs for the sake of it, from a team standpoint we need better coaching and better individual performances. And it's also worth keeping in mind that we didn't concede 6 goals against Spurs because we had a back four, we conceded them because our pressing was inexistent and three members of the back four had a terrible game, if the three members of your back three have a terrible game you are in as much troubles.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Well if he changes it and still loses whilst offering up the god awful 352 we’ve played before then he should probably walk. I feel changing to that system tells the fans and media we aren’t good enough and puts us on the back foot from the off.

I’ve wanted him to drop the #10 role and play a solid 433 system, if he’s gonna change it up at least go for something positive imo.

It doesn't make him defeatist to change formation when things have been going so badly. And I'm not even advocating we change to 352 forever either. Just to try and help cover our weaknesses whilst confidence is low.

Luke Shaw as a LCB has shown that it covers for our lack of pace at CB. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Wing backs tend to do more defending than attacking too so we don't have the issue of Greenwood n Rashford not tracking runners either.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We conceded a goal on a corner, so I return your question what is your point?

Adding a defender doesn't fix our issues in transition, it doesn't fix our positioning problems and it doesn't fix Maguire's and Shaw's individual mistakes or Wan Bissaka poor performances and It doesn't fix the fact that we barely created chances. We don't need to change stuffs for the sake of it, from a team standpoint we need better coaching and better individual performances. And it's also worth keeping in mind that we didn't concede 6 goals against Spurs because we had a back four, we conceded them because our pressing was inexistent and three members of the back four had a terrible game, if the three members of your back three have a terrible game you are in as much troubles.

Why did Ole change to 352 so much then in the big games if it makes no difference? Just for a laugh?

Team have worked out how to expose our 4231. Honestly can't understand how you can't see it. Rashford n Greenwood are big issues with that formation as they don't get back enough. Add in a lack of pace at CB and Pogba doing his usual stuff and it's just a recipe for disaster.

 

[#07]

I think formation is less important than approach. If we play 3-5-2 but continue to try to play a high line and press from the front we'll continue to get exposed by pacey, direct teams. On the other hand if we play 4-2-3-1 but forget about pressing, drop into our shape when we lose the ball and play disciplined, incisive counter attacking football, we'll win more than we lose.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

If “key players” being missing is key to the 352 formation working then we are screwed already as we don’t have Martial available.

We can play Rashford n Greenwood as the front 2 in a 352. Martial banned and Cavani not available yet.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

You need 3 capable center backs to play this system.

 

[JPRouve]

Why did Ole change to 352 so much then in the big games if it makes no difference? Just for a laugh?

Team have worked out how to expose our 4231. Honestly can't understand how you can't see it. Rashford n Greenwood are big issues with that formation as they don't get back enough. Add in a lack of pace at CB and Pogba doing his usual stuff and it's just a recipe for disaster.

You will have to ask him because we are not winning more with a back three, we have the same win rate. And teams haven't worked out how to expose our 4231, some players underperformed since the start of this season. And to be clear I don't think that the 4231 suits our team either, at least not the way we are set up because Bruno is too high and generally isolated while Pogba and Matic aren't mobile enough to be left in a strict midfield two. With our players the logical set up is a 433 with Bruno as the most attacking CM in a Lampard type of role and Matic should stay centrally and not have to cover sideline to sideline.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

You need 3 capable center backs to play this system.

What kind or argument is that? Surely you need 2 capable CB's to play in a 4 too?

It's widely recognised that Luke Shaw did well in the LCB role last season, both on here and in the media too.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

You will have to ask him because we are not winning more with a back three, we have the same win rate. And teams haven't worked out how to expose our 4231, some players underperformed since the start of this season. And to be clear I don't think that the 4231 suits our team either, at least not the way we are set up because Bruno is too high and generally isolated while Pogba and Matic aren't mobile enough to be left in a strict midfield two. With our players the logical set up is a 433 with Bruno as the most attacking CM in a Lampard type of role and Matic should stay centrally and not have to cover sideline to sideline.

433 doesn't work either. It has all the flaws of the 4231. Still no pace at CB and Rashford n Greenwood are further forward in a 433 if anything. How's that going to help our fullbacks who are getting a real rough time of it at the moment.

 

[JPRouve]

433 doesn't work either. It has all the flaws of the 4231. Still no pace at CB and Rashford n Greenwood are further forward in a 433 if anything. How's that going to help our fullbacks who are getting a real rough time of it at the moment.

When you have a midfield three one of the common defensive options is to have one of the wider CMs covering the width on his side, that's essentially what Liverpool does, the fullback is the main defender and the midfielder is the helper. The LCM covers the left channel and the RCM covers the right channel with the CM/DM always staying inside. You can combine that with a low block and sliding defense which is the best thing when you have slow defenders, in that case the logic is simple, the starting position means that each CM covers one gap, the one between the LFB-LCB, the one between the LCB-RCB and the one between the RCB-RLB. In theory the midfield and defense move as a single tight block sideline to sideline. And to be complete, the attacker on the opposing side of the ball is supposed to slightly drop and cover for cross field passes, while the other two attackers chase the ball carrier and prevent back passes.

 

[SuperiorXI]

As a consequence of the never ending stream of defensive errors, I think there is no choice but to change to a more defensive system, and reinforce in the January window - it's not an option anymore, if it doesn't happen we're fecked because we'll do feck all but stink the joint out and boil the piss of everyone who watches us in this system.

 

[Giggsy13]

The back 4 needs more protection from our midfield and right now Matic and Pogba aren’t doing the job. Two of Fred, McT and VDB should start instead.

 

[Fortitude]

433 doesn't work either. It has all the flaws of the 4231. Still no pace at CB and Rashford n Greenwood are further forward in a 433 if anything. How's that going to help our fullbacks who are getting a real rough time of it at the moment.

Added to what @JPRouve wrote, 4-3-3 prevents opposing fullbacks from abandoning their position so readily as you have two direct and immediate inlets to the heart of a backline waiting to pounce off of basic breakdowns of play and with our pace, there's little chance they're getting caught.

We should've switched to a 4-3-3 ages ago given our personnel. Bruno shouldn't be so high up the pitch and it's not the smartest thing to rely on someone who isn't great defensively to work in such a deep role where any lapse of concentration immediately exposes the backline.

Pogba and Bruno defending 'front to back' whilst keeping shape with our full-backs tucking and inviting play outside of them, which buys time for the central players to compact themselves, surely makes more sense than what we're doing and also keeps opposition more honest as they have to be more mindful of us being able to spring relatively simple but effective counters off easy passes that don't compromise our shape.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

We need to at least change something. Teams have found us out again and they always seem to. Ole's interim period where he went on a winning run, teams found us out later knowing Pogba was our only creative player and we turned to shit till Bruno came in.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

3-5-2 (or 5-3-2, whatever) definitely makes the most sense to get the best out of the players we have.

We need 3 CB's because they're all a little shit.

Then that gives us the defensive cover of playing all of Van De Beek, Pogba and Fernandes. That much creativity in midfield gives us a chance of winning any match.

Two strikers. How it should always have been at United. Cavani, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood rotating. Very good options.

 

[YAMS49]

We should Gasperini/Atalanta it & go 3-4-3 with two diamonds on either side. Would be amusing at least.

 

[ROFLUTION]

3-5-2 (or 5-3-2, whatever) definitely makes the most sense to get the best out of the players we have.

We need 3 CB's because they're all a little shit.

Then that gives us the defensive cover of playing all of Van De Beek, Pogba and Fernandes. That much creativity in midfield gives us a chance of winning any match.

Two strikers. How it should always have been at United. Cavani, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood rotating. Very good options.

And how do you play the 3 then? Who goes out on the right-side of those 3? Where is the DM, then? In central-defence?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

And how do you play the 3 then? Who goes out on the right-side of those 3? Where is the DM, then? In central-defence?

Dm's are overrated.

You've got 5 at the back when defending anyway, then the midfield can all just drop back a few yards when the opposition has the ball. More than enough players to get back.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

What kind or argument is that? Surely you need 2 capable CB's to play in a 4 too?

It's widely recognised that Luke Shaw did well in the LCB role last season, both on here and in the media too.

Widely recognised? Christ. He spent most of those games occupying the same space as Williams. We played some of our worst attacking football during that period, it felt like playing with 2 LB's instead of a winger because both he and Williams were unsure on how to attack.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Widely recognised? Christ. He spent most of those games occupying the same space as Williams. We played some of our worst attacking football during that period, it felt like playing with 2 LB's instead of a winger because both he and Williams were unsure on how to attack.

He was superb against City in the 2 nil home win who are the best attacking team in the country. Also played very well versus the scousers I seem to recall too.

 

[Walrus]

I like AWB as the RCB, personally. Plays to his strengths - if Walker can do it so can he (but arguably AWB has the better attributes).

Would also consider McTominay as one of the CBs. He has done well for Scotland in that role recently, and can carry the ball out, which is what you want when playing a back three.

 

[Maureen-yo]

Widely recognised? Christ. He spent most of those games occupying the same space as Williams. We played some of our worst attacking football during that period, it felt like playing with 2 LB's instead of a winger because both he and Williams were unsure on how to attack.

But it wouldn’t be Williams, it would be Telles. Shaw not playing as a winger (because he was a LCB) is a null point there.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

But it wouldn’t be Williams, it would be Telles. Shaw not playing as a winger (because he was a LCB) is a null point there.

Maybe it would be better with Telles but I'm firmly against any lineup that has Williams and Shaw together.

 

[Lee565]

If we go 352 could mctominay play as the rwb? he did relatively well for Scotland the other night as an actual centre back so playing as wing back will be far less of a stretch for him defensively, he also has a great engine in him to go up and down the flank all day, he's not slow and technically he is better on the ball than the other options like William's, mensah and definitely bissaka.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It's the formation we have the most personnel in

3 CBs can be among- Bailly Lindelof Maguire Tuanzebe Shaw Mctominay

Wingbacks - Williams Awb Telles Shaw James(?)

Midfielders - Pogba Bruno Matic VdB Mctominay Fred

Forwards - Martial Rashford Cavani Greenwood Ighalo

 

[DJ_21]

Well if he changes it and still loses whilst offering up the god awful 352 we’ve played before then he should probably walk. I feel changing to that system tells the fans and media we aren’t good enough and puts us on the back foot from the off.

I’ve wanted him to drop the #10 role and play a solid 433 system, if he’s gonna change it up at least go for something positive imo.

Agreed, city and Liverpool both play 4-3-3 and have success, city play with 1 holding player and 2 attacking mids which we could do with pogba and Fernandes. Don’t get why we aren’t trying it.