We need 442. Needs to come back ASAP
4-2-3-1 needs to die
- Thread starter Rajma
- Start date
Matic - Mctominay
Martial - Pogba - Sanchez
Lukaku
Martial - Pogba - Sanchez
Lukaku
Love to see us go back to 442. Martial could be a real threat playing as a striker, if he was given a run of games there.
I think we will play this formation again, but not while Mourinho is here.
I think we will play this formation again, but not while Mourinho is here.
We don't have the wingers for it sadly.
4-2-3-1 is better with wide midfielders instead of wingers or wide strikers. And you need attacking full backs to provide width.
Or buy players to play in it effectively.
Mahrez on the right, Sanchez on the left would suffice.
I know we’ve not had a proper winger since Nani left. Weren’t we in for mane at one point?
Transfer window is closed.
Lewis Cook.
Not glamorous enough for Woodward, tall enough for Mourinho or YouTube friendly enough for the majority of the fanbase, but the kid is special.
What you actually want is an hybrid with a SS/WF on one side and a AM/Winger on the other e.g CR on one side and Di Maria on the other.
A key problem with the current attack is that there is no core piece to build around and Lukaku needs to be fed
Until it reopens, Young or Valencia will do, with Jones/Lindelöf at rightback. Neither of them are spectacular, but it’s not even about that at this point; it’s about balance, natural width and opposition occupation.
Mata constantly inverting simply condenses already deep, narrow defences.
A good example of a functional 4-2-3-1 is the German nt.
Look their line up against France some months ago:
Khedira Kroos
Gundogan Ozil Draxler
Werner
Gundogan Ozil Draxler
Werner
Gundogan is more of a CM than a RM and lacks the pace to play the role effectively. That team is a poor example for 4-2-3-1.
Instead one should look at teams that have used the system with high level of success in a competitive setting (not Int friendlies) e.g. Madrid under Mou, Dortmund with Klopp/tuchel, recent Juve etc
I think pace is overrated in the english game. They played Gundogan in that line of three in competitive games too. When you watch them playing you see they are looking for a heavy possession more than pace.
Dull dull dull.
If we're gunna commit to 3 in midfield to "free up" Pogba then we need someone a little more dynamic than Matic or McTominay.
Not sure mate probably not if he ended up at Liverpool. But he would have been a great signing for us.
Worked out alright, didn't it ;-)
And we were dull AF, weren't we?
I think the midfield duo did their job, and it gave Pogba more freedom. Being dull is alright as long as we beat good opponents. I hope we keep on playing the same midfield for a few games!
Do you think a team like this could work? Or we definitely need to play 433 because of Pogba, with a midfielder like Vidal/Kante/Nainggolan next to Pogba and Matic?
Lukaku
Sanchez - Eriksen - Mahrez
Pogba - Matic
Back 4
De Gea
100%. Without a player/s like that next to him, Pogba won’t reach his heights of Juventus.
Makes sense to build around him and not waste our club record signing.
Formations are just numbers. That team would play like a 4-3-3 formation, because Pogba likes to drift and move forward and Eriksen likes to play deeper and get the ball from the centerbacks so he can distribute the ball from a deep position. Also the AMs/wingers both like coming inside. The midfield 3 would be more like Matic behind Pogba and Eriksen, instead of Eriksen in front of Pogba and Matic.
And yes i think it would work.
Whenever we've set up in a 4231 of late, we've looked pretty balanced. It's Jose's favourite formation, and he knows how to play it better than any other system.
Going forward, I still do not know what he'll want to play.
He needs to get Pogba back to his early season form, which was in a 4231, so it can definitely be done.
I just think since Sanchez has joined, we've lacked a bit of natural width on the left. With Mata coming in from the right, we need someone to keep the width on the other side, as we saw with Rashford against Liverpool.
If we stretch teams, it will give the likes of Pogba to do what he does best, which is to drive through midfield and create.
With top four more or less secured, in the league I would like to see the following:
De Gea
Valencia Bailly Lindelof Shaw
Pogba Matic
Mata Sanchez Rashford
Lukaku
In the tougher games, where we need to be more solid in midfield, I'd go with:
De Gea
Valencia Bailly Smalling Young
McTominay Matic
Sanchez Pogba Rashford
Lukaku
Going forward, I still do not know what he'll want to play.
He needs to get Pogba back to his early season form, which was in a 4231, so it can definitely be done.
I just think since Sanchez has joined, we've lacked a bit of natural width on the left. With Mata coming in from the right, we need someone to keep the width on the other side, as we saw with Rashford against Liverpool.
If we stretch teams, it will give the likes of Pogba to do what he does best, which is to drive through midfield and create.
With top four more or less secured, in the league I would like to see the following:
De Gea
Valencia Bailly Lindelof Shaw
Pogba Matic
Mata Sanchez Rashford
Lukaku
In the tougher games, where we need to be more solid in midfield, I'd go with:
De Gea
Valencia Bailly Smalling Young
McTominay Matic
Sanchez Pogba Rashford
Lukaku
I have argued all season that United's problem is not formation. It's personnel. Whether Jose is to blame for that or not is a different debate.
IMO Its a mixture of personnel (square pegs etc) and style of play.
It was the same under LVG, change the formation all you like but if we continue to move the ball around slowly and safely we wont get anywhere.
Good post.
One my biggest suprises this season was Mourinho seeming to bow to outside influence and switch to a 433 earlier this year, seemingly just to play Pogba in his favourite role.
I think we have seen a bit of reasserting of authority over the last 10 days and with it will come his favoured 4231. Like others have said its not the formation, its the way its being utilised by himself and the players that is the issue.
I think we have seen a bit of reasserting of authority over the last 10 days and with it will come his favoured 4231. Like others have said its not the formation, its the way its being utilised by himself and the players that is the issue.
If you ask me I would love to go back to the 442 formation. Two holding midfielders. Two strikers. One winger and one wide midfielder. Put Rashford/Martial and Lukaku up top. Sanchez right winger. Pogba Left Wide midfielder. Matic and Mactominy/Herrera holding midfielders. Defence 4 are the same. Its suits Mourinho style of play since he doesnot care about possession football thus no need for 3 in midfield. It will compliment his fast direct counter attack football. I know its very old school and I know Know it can leave the midfield open if the 2 midfielders are not disciplined enough. But its just a very balanced attacking formation with lots of flexibility. I would love to see how we perform under it for some matches. Imagine the damage Rashford and Lukaku can make upfront if they get their chemistry going. Power and Pace is in abundance with these two.
Add Vardy and Ramsey, sell Martial and Pogba, and we will be sorted!
Cook would be a really good signing.
He's very young but looks really good already. We could have the three man midfield that we're told will get the best out of Pogba.
We wouldn't have to break the bank for him but the balance he'd bring to the side would be priceless. All the top Young British talents should be at United.
Are you talking about the Leeds player? He is as far from United material as Vardy and Ramsey to be fair.
He plays for Bournemouth, sort of brings your opinion on him into disrepute if you don't know who he plays for.
Had no idea he had moved to Bounemouth to be honest with you. Perhaps he has improved since the move but I saw nothing in his ability during his time at Leeds that would suggest he is ready for United.
He's turning into a fine young midfielder! Only 21 and technically he looks spot on mate. He's been called up to England this time round and I think he was last time as well. Liverpool are reported to be sniffing around him but who knows if it's true or not.
Had no idea he had moved to Bounemouth to be honest with you. Perhaps he has improved since the move but I saw nothing in his ability during his time at Leeds that would suggest he is ready for United.
Get rid of some of the players who can play multiple roles. Just train players as per their strengths. De Gea needs to learn to pass the ball when not under pressure. Valencia needs to learn to go forward, play one-two more often and overlap more, do not eat up the space in front and leave the back unprotected. Smalling needs to go. Bailly is excellent but needs more game time and the same goes for Lindelof, who deserves to play more. Young is again similar to Valencia but we're gonna get a replacement, so well! Matic is wonderful and needs to play the holding role alone, we can trust him to do that. Play 2 number 8's in Pogba and Herrera or Lingard or even Mctominay. Pogba will flourish in this role and can help the Left winger. Mourinho likes wingers who grab the touchline and pull the play as wide as possible, Rashford is our best choice right now. Sanchez can alternate with him but for the RW, we need to get Mahrez or Mata for now. Lukaku definitely needs to keep his head in the game and make short passes and control the ball better. His game has improved a lot since he joined us and it will only get better from here. 4-3-3 can still get Mourinho to play the way he wants the team to.
Fred normally plays in a midfield of 2. Also, it seems 4231 is the Mourinho's favorite formation. So, I wouldn't be surprised if we play some games with that formation next season.
The question would be... is Pogba able to play as No.10? He played in a midfield of 3 for us, and he wasn't outstanding. IMO he was at his best when we sign Matic in a midfield of 2, with Lingard as CAM.
If we sign proper fullbacks and a top RW and No.10 it could work really well.
The question would be... is Pogba able to play as No.10? He played in a midfield of 3 for us, and he wasn't outstanding. IMO he was at his best when we sign Matic in a midfield of 2, with Lingard as CAM.
If we sign proper fullbacks and a top RW and No.10 it could work really well.
I think it depends on signings. More specifically, what kind of attacker we bring in (if we bring one in).
If it's a Bale type player, I think 4-3-3 would suit best.
If it's someone like Griezemann, I can see us continuing with 4-2-3-1 with him as a supporting striker off of Lukaku. That would be the way to get the best out of him. And he's someone you obviously want to get the best out of -- similar to why Jose hasn't ever seriously considered bringing Sanchez away from that LW position.
Well, We didn't buy Fred to continue playing 4-2-3-1. If we buy Bale, we'll be playing 4-3-3 or Griezmann 4-3-2-1 (behind strikers) with fullback supports and be overlapping.
I completely agree. I hate how everyone is obsessed with a 4-3-3 these days. Strikers are becoming obsolete. Give Lukaku a strike partner and I guarantee we will be banging in the goals...