Memphis/Januzaj didn't play as strikers though. They were 10's, which means that he's aiming at 433 with the point forward, or 4231 or however you want to call it. Van Gaal specifically named 442 as a formation he doesn't like last season, it doesn't give him the passing triangles to keep possesion and we don't have the right midfielders for it either (Blind, Carrick, Schweinsteiger). Without the intensity of a real match it kind of looks like a 442 though.After saying in the press conference that tomorrows team has a good chance of being the team that starts vs Spurs.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I just don't get this sudden decision to settle on the 4-4-2. We finally have the players to play his favourite 4-3-3, and yet he doesn't want to play it
4-4-2
- Thread starter wiz4231
- Start date
Playing with anything but a 4-3-3 is going to lead to us having a poor season. Hopefully he doesn't plan on keeping this up for the whole season.
That set if players could easily be a 4-3-3 though, just move Mata into the midfield, Memphis to the left and Young to the right.
Not trying to play 3 at the back next season has got to be worth at least 10 points.
This formation change is really concerning me right now, I really thought that LVG would stick to the 4-1-4-1 variant of the 4-3-3 rather than the 4-4-1-1. I understand to some that this might seem minimal, however in the 4-1-4-1 we could field and midfield with greater energy and power that could also be the heart of our creativity. I've never been a massive fan of classic 'number 10s' as I think they can just drift out the game to easily and it will also mean that Herrera will likely miss out as LVG will not favour him in the 10 role.
As I mentioned in another post I'm just worried that LVG is trying to get Memphis and young into the team yet the really Memphis should be getting a proper chance to play in his position on the left wing. I think if LVG persists with this formation change we could be in trouble.
As I mentioned in another post I'm just worried that LVG is trying to get Memphis and young into the team yet the really Memphis should be getting a proper chance to play in his position on the left wing. I think if LVG persists with this formation change we could be in trouble.
4-4-2...love it
I dont know if the formation is really 4-4-2 but my biggest concern is Herrera not starting.
I'm quite sure it is 4-3-3 with the point forward, that's what he calls it, Carrick and Schneiderlin will be a central midfield two with Depay as the 10, Young LW and Mata RW and then Rooney playing as a striker.
It's too bad for Herrera though if that's the case.
Edit - I know it looks like a 4-4-2 but in the season it will probably look more like a very attacking 4-2-3-1.
It's too bad for Herrera though if that's the case.
Edit - I know it looks like a 4-4-2 but in the season it will probably look more like a very attacking 4-2-3-1.
Loves the 4-4-2 does Red Dreams, bloody loves it!4-4-2...love it
I love how opinions change.4-4-2...love it
a few years ago, it was seen as mental if anyone didn't play 4-4-2.
now seemingly everyone on forums like this thinks 4-4-2 is unworkable
In theory its a great formation. It provides a shield for the defense and allows the attacking players to really concentrate on attacking.
I just don't see that winning the league.
Nothing wrong with the formation but Louis van Gaal has in the past commented on how it limits the passing options therefore if he feels another formation is better suited to his possession game then that's fine by me.
4-4-2 isn't usually 4-4-2 anyway since one of the strikers drops into the hole so it's more of a 4-4-1-1 and if the wide players are good going forward and the team control matches then that 4-4-2 won't look much different to a 4-2-3-1.
Always hard to discuss formations, it's moreso how the team plays, they don't really line up with the way they do on paper, I expect Mata's positional tendencies to be more central than wide for instance.
Giggsy's becoming more of an influence, clearly. Depay as a second striker in this team could work wonders. Although with the personnel hinted at in that tweet, I think we'd be more suited to 4-2-3-1 with Mata in the hole, rather than the 4-4-1-1 we seem to be going for right now.
It just seems ridiculous to me, to be using Memphis as that #10, when we have the options to set up a perfect midfield 3 from Carrick/Bastian/Morgan/Herrera, then select a front 3 from Rooney/Memphis/Mata/Di Maria/Young etc etc
I'm going to be really disappointed if this is the plan for the season, and the midfield 3 will actually be a midfield 2 + Memphis. It just seems like over complicating things for the sake of it.
We won't be playing 442 next season, I can guarantee that. That MUTV showed us lining up that way says nothing, I'm sure it's supposed to be a 4231-433 of some sort. I'm not sure what van Gaal's plans with Memphis are though, because he isn't the ordinary winger talent. He doesn't really have a weakness so I suppose he could play as 10 or 9 in the future, although I didn't expect him to change position right away. Preseason is the time to test things and since we've only seen Fellaini last season as capable 10 I assume others are getting a chance now.
Herrera should be that #10, with two from Carrick/Morgan/Basti with him. That would be a proper 4-3-3 for me. With three proper midfielders.
It's good to have more than 1 formation
Muller is not a proper midfielder, but LvG used him behind the striker as a 10/secondary-striker, maybe he thinks Depay has the same qualities and in Van Gaal's book that formations is called 4-3-3 "with the point forward".
I'm not sure where Herrera's role lies this season, but i think he will have to fight for a holding midfielder spot if he wants to get in the side, the acquisition of Schweini and Morgan suggest LvG want to play with 2 holding midfielders.
I guess many things could change though, he will assess what works and what doesn't through the season, hopefully he will get it right from the start though.
I'm not sure where Herrera's role lies this season, but i think he will have to fight for a holding midfielder spot if he wants to get in the side, the acquisition of Schweini and Morgan suggest LvG want to play with 2 holding midfielders.
I guess many things could change though, he will assess what works and what doesn't through the season, hopefully he will get it right from the start though.
I think it's a great idea. The onus to win is on us and I think we should be attacking teams instead of playing with ourselves for 70 minutes without causing too much of concern before stepping it up for the last 20 minutes. Obviously we need to err on the side of caution against some teams and not use a 442. But LvG was a master in the big games and knows what he's doing. But when we're playing at home against the likes of Watford, I'd much rather we go all out in attack and if a 442 does that for us, I'm all for it.
What formation did we play at the back end of last season then, because apparently you don't think Fellaini's a 'proper midfielder'?
He's not, and that wasn't a traditional 4-3-3. It was pretty much the same sort of thing as we're playing now, just with Memphis instead of Fellaini, and less hoofing.
Maybe LvG is testing this out in case Di Maria stays.
------------Rooney
Di Maria---Memphis----Pedro
------------Rooney
Di Maria---Memphis----Pedro
my point is lets keep all the options available.
Think 4-4-2 will be very effective and entertaining against the 'lesser' teams. Grew up with it and will always remeber it fondly.
Sure van Gaal will adapt accordingly. But like someone said Giggs may be an influence with 4-4-2 making a come back.
Think 4-4-2 will be very effective and entertaining against the 'lesser' teams. Grew up with it and will always remeber it fondly.
Sure van Gaal will adapt accordingly. But like someone said Giggs may be an influence with 4-4-2 making a come back.
What's the problem then? I mean, we dominated everyone in the league using that system, so why should it change?
Last edited:
LVG keeps rattling on about the selection not being balance, this window gives him the chance to sort it, the pre season so far has seen him shoehorn two complete teams into each match, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he does when he has to pick one team from all these players, when the season starts proper.
In shorthand, nobody can actually guess what the mad Dutch bastard is thinking!
In shorthand, nobody can actually guess what the mad Dutch bastard is thinking!
This looks to be what he's settling on and it is bizarre but this has been his preferred system the last ten years, with 2 sitting midfielders and someone like muller high up behind a striker.
it is frustrating because Depay is going to be a disaster in #10. necause it will heavily limit Herrera's pitch time, and mostly because at times last season with 4-3-3 we looked a real side
it is frustrating because Depay is going to be a disaster in #10. necause it will heavily limit Herrera's pitch time, and mostly because at times last season with 4-3-3 we looked a real side
exactly. he will change things about as it fits.
And Giggs is right. He is always right. LVG
Is all this furor because the TV broadcaster put up a visual with us lined up 4-4-2 on it? We obviously weren't playing 4-4-2 so why would anyone care what the broadcaster says. It reminds me of the '68 European Cup final - the visual showed us lined up in a 4-4-2 and the commentators discussed it that way right up to the start - then we went out and played in our traditional 3-4-3. And, despite the evidence of their eyes, there are still people on the Caf who will argue that we played 4-4-2 in that game.
actually this is a mixture. this was a 442 in defense mode and 451 in attack mode
show me a top team that plays 442 (non diamond) and does well in europe or domestically, playing with a 2 man midfield puts you at a distinct disadvantage against teams that play a 3-5 man midfield.
Sure if you want to switch it up for a game and be more direct go 442, but it's a dead formation in today's game
needs to find his best 11 early this year.
His got his players, funds have been spent and he's had a year to settle. Needs to be continuity from early on.
I don't think we are playing a 442, but the answer to your question would be Athletico Madrid.
Apologise for the massive pictures.
Very few other teams have the box-to-box midfielders required to make 4-4-2 work. We do. In fact, we've got 4 of them.
Since we're going to be playing a possession game and our formation will be relatively compact, it probably won't hurt us too much playing with only 2 in the middle. It's true that a 4-3-3 can give you more passing options in the middle third, but that issue should be moot under an LvG system.
I don't see us being outpassed or bullied if we play with any two out of Schneid, Carrick, Basti or Herrera. And with Mata likely to come inside quite a lot, being outnumbered won't be a problem either.
Since we're going to be playing a possession game and our formation will be relatively compact, it probably won't hurt us too much playing with only 2 in the middle. It's true that a 4-3-3 can give you more passing options in the middle third, but that issue should be moot under an LvG system.
I don't see us being outpassed or bullied if we play with any two out of Schneid, Carrick, Basti or Herrera. And with Mata likely to come inside quite a lot, being outnumbered won't be a problem either.
Because I want us to do better this season then just scraping into 4th?
He had a go at Mata in the first match for leaving his wing too much.
How much difference is there between a 442 with one striker playing behind the other, and a 4231? Especially with the way Mata plays on the right - hardly a conventional wide man.
I don't know which quote you're referencing, but the only one I saw was this:
“You have always players who are excel in the first match and you also have players who are not so good and that I have seen. Lingard holds much more the width than Mata for example so I was very plaesed with Lingard also and because of that we have created more chances in the 2nd half.”
I don't think that's a criticism so much as a statement of fact. Mata's played right wing the same way for half a season under LvG. If it were a problem, he'd have been dropped ages ago.