4-4-2

[Glanville95]

I'm hoping that the reason for the 4-4-2 is to develop an understanding between Rooney and Memphis which could prove very fruitful next season. Plus, LVG has also suggested Memphis as a striker option, so he probably wants to see how he fares centrally when he has to vary his movement and get on the ball more.

Whether they are justifiable reasons to play this formation in pre-season remains to be seen though. LVG is all about the collective, rather than the individual, so it's probably doubtful he would cater to two players just to experiment when he could be preparing the team under the formation he'd like to employ.

I want to see the back of it soon though. For the first time, probably ever, the strongest part of the team is in central midfield where we not only possess quality, but variation. When LVG constantly bangs in about balance, it only seems natural to use the 4-3-3 when we have a minimum of two players for every position under that system and he's favoured it throughout his managerial career.

 

[Borys]

Can someone define for me what a formation actually is?

When exactly are those players in the position suggested by said formation?

It doesn’t matter, it’s important though how players are positioned with respect to each other. Mata on the wing =/= Mata in the center, the same applies to Memphis.

 

[caid]

I kind of thought it might be trying to get the midfield ready for more energetic opponents.
If they manage to control the game with 2 against fairly laid back opponents it'll put them in a better position when the season starts up.
Testing different players up front could be another reason.

Whatever the reason i just hope we switch to a 4-3-3
I dont even like 4-2-3-1 much (and in the first game our midfield was extremely flat, at best it was a 4411)

 

[RedStarUnited]

Bring back the 4-3-3 from last year. Get Herrera in the team and in his position.

 

[Borys]

Despite van Gaal weird comments about how we’re playing 4-3-3 I guess it’s plain obvious it’s a flat 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1?). The space between Schweinsteiger-Carrick and Depay is quite big.

The question I have in mind is what are the benefits of playing this formation instead of 4-3-3? Does it make us better offensively? Are we more solid defensively? Do we keep possession better? I don’t think so to be honest.

 

[settembrini]

It's another case of problems being caused by Van Gaal's player selection.

You are right that it looks more like a 4-4-2 than anything because the midfielders he is picking (Carrick, Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin) all sit deep while Depay is pushing forward. It leaves a gap in the centre of the pitch. Herrera would solve this issue either as an attacking midfielder or as a box to box player but, just like last season, he is not being selected.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Despite van Gaal weird comments about how we’re playing 4-3-3 I guess it’s plain obvious it’s a flat 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1?). The space between Schweinsteiger-Carrick and Depay is quite big.

The question I have in mind is what are the benefits of playing this formation instead of 4-3-3? Does it make us better offensively? Are we more solid defensively? Do we keep possession better? I don’t think so to be honest.

On paper, the presence of someone who can take on defenders and score goals playing on Rooney's shoulder. Rooney is someone you can depend on tactically to create pockets of space with his off the ball movement, either by attacking the channel between the CBs or by constantly moving in and out of the box and on wings. In the first case, he creates spaces in between the lines for Memphis to play 1v1 and in the second he opens up spaces in the box, behind the defense.

Last season we had lots of problems getting men in the box when we had the ball in the final third. We used the Fellaini card but that's something LvG doesn't like much, at least as an option to start a game, plus Jose showed the rest of the PL how you can defend against that tactic.

Now, there are two ways to solve this. One is by buying players who can beat their marker, unbalance defenses, get in the box and provide enough end product. That's what Enrique did last season at Barcelona when everybody was saying that the Catalans needed a midfielder and a defender and he broke the bank to sign Suarez.

The other way, what we are trying to do, is by changing the tactics, removing a creative midfielder and adding a pure goal scorer. If the next question is why not Mata in the middle and Memphis on the wing, i think it has to do with the build up process. I haven't watched Memphis with PSV but from what i understand LvG considers him a wide/second forward. In the 4-4-2 we're going to use the flanks to build up attacks a lot and LvG thinks that Mata (a great pass n' move to receive the ball player) and Young (not much flair but good at protecting possession) are better choices there.

But that's just on paper. The truth is that in all the friendlies we looked devoid of ideas and we struggled to keep possession in dangerous areas. I guess LvG expects that Rooney will develop a good understanding with Memphis, that will quicken up our attacking plays and also create more opportunities for Mata to get in dangerous positions in the box.

Hopefully we'll return to last season's 4-3-3 when we sign some proper wingers.

 

[Borys]

On paper, the presence of someone who can take on defenders and score goals playing on Rooney's shoulder. Rooney is someone you can depend on tactically to create pockets of space with his off the ball movement, either by attacking the channel between the CBs or by constantly moving in and out of the box and on wings. In the first case, he creates spaces in between the lines for Memphis to play 1v1 and in the second he opens up spaces in the box, behind the defense.

Last season we had lots of problems getting men in the box when we had the ball in the final third. We used the Fellaini card but that's something LvG doesn't like much, at least as an option to start a game, plus Jose showed the rest of the PL how you can defend against that tactic.

Now, there are two ways to solve this. One is by buying players who can beat their marker, unbalance defenses, get in the box and provide enough end product. That's what Enrique did last season at Barcelona when everybody was saying that the Catalans needed a midfielder and a defender and he broke the bank to sign Suarez.

The other way, what we are trying to do, is by changing the tactics, removing a creative midfielder and adding a pure goal scorer. If the next question is why not Mata in the middle and Memphis on the wing, i think it has to do with the build up process. I haven't watched Memphis with PSV but from what i understand LvG considers him a wide/second forward. In the 4-4-2 we're going to use the flanks to build up attacks a lot and LvG thinks that Mata (a great pass n' move to receive the ball player) and Young (not much flair but good at protecting possession) are better choices there.

But that's just on paper. The truth is that in all the friendlies we looked devoid of ideas and we struggled to keep possession in dangerous areas. I guess LvG expects that Rooney will develop a good understanding with Memphis, that will quicken up our attacking plays and also create more opportunities for Mata to get in dangerous positions in the box.

Hopefully we'll return to last season's 4-3-3 when we sign some proper wingers.

You talk a lot of sense. However, I really don’t understand why would it make us more threatening. It might be better for Rooney to work with somebody, but I’m pretty sure it’s worse for everybody else. Memphis looks out of place there, just because he’s fast and strong doesn’t make him a good no10. Young is ok on the left but I’d rather see Depay there as he is much more of a goal threat. Mata on the right in this setup is a waste IMO, simple as that. It worked for him last season in wide attacker role because he was able to get inside into goalscoring position, but now he will just stay wide where he isn’t that effective.

Obviously the situation changes if we sign Pedro, but I still think this idea has a lot more cons than prons.

If van Gaal thinks Rooney isn’t good enough to be the lone striker, as half of the Café, then I guess we have a problem. I don’t think it’s that bad, especially if we play him + Depay, Pedro and Herrera/Mata centrally, I think we have enough goals in that team.

 

[Sam]

If there was any doubt as to what formation we're playing...its a 4-4-2. Clear as day.

 

[Bwuk]

Memphis shouldn't be playing upfront. I'd move him to the left and bring Mata up top with Rooney if we want to play 442.

 

[ivaldo]

If there was any doubt as to what formation we're playing...its a 4-4-2. Clear as day.

Well young is in line with Depay and rooney so that would make it a 4-3-3?

 

[Stack]

If there was any doubt as to what formation we're playing...its a 4-4-2. Clear as day.

with 14 players....

 

[K2K]

If there was any doubt as to what formation we're playing...its a 4-4-2. Clear as day.

So Mike Bassett was playing according to the philosophy too..no wonder they were so dire too.

 

[Sam]

Well young is in line with Depay and rooney so that would make it a 4-3-3?

Mata and Young wide, Rooney and Memphis upfront.

with 14 players....

Shows the subs too.

 

[Stack]

Mata and Young wide, Rooney and Memphis upfront.



Shows the subs too.

Sorry, I was just having a laugh

 

[Sam]

Sorry, I was just having a laugh

It could be quite a plan trying to sneak 14 players on the pitch. Would certainly solve the Herrera or Mata debate

 

[NoPace]

If Young is playing as far forward as the 9, it should really be Memphis out there. That's his position.

 

[Escobar]

If Young is playing as far forward as the 9, it should really be Memphis out there. That's his position.

That for me is the biggest question mark: you have a top winger in Depay and a rather solid but unproductive Young, yet he plays Depay in the middle and Young out wide. Then we play a 4-4-2 when last season we clearly saw that 2 midfielders with Herrera working very well, especially with Mata on the right