63% of Liverpool squad "asthmatic" - any substance to this article?

[christinaa]

You overheard someone talking about Juventus being demoted and made wild assumptions, didn't you?

You're trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Before the coronabreak, so August-March:

We have 1 player in the top 10 of most distance covered in a game, and it's Milner.
We have 1 player in the top 10 of most distance covered this season.
We are 7th in most distance covered as a team.
We are not even top 10 in most distance covered as a team during a single game.

People are always looking for reasons as to why another team is doing better than them. While Utd was on top, it was because Fergie bribed the FA. Now with Liverpool on top, it's because Klopp gives his players illegal PEDs. Both make no sense.

United were top for twenty years, Liverpool have been top for a month. Not quite the comparison

 

[Ish]

I'd shit on the quality of the drugs if we were found to be using them

too true. Phil Jones: long term asthmatic sufferer

On a more serious note - why is this not seriously investigated?

 

[RobinLFC]

United were top for twenty years, Liverpool have been top for a month. Not quite the comparison

Although that's quite an understatement, I understand your point yes - but the "looking for reasons" started before we even won our first trophy under Klopp. Also on here, speculating that we were doping because we didn't get any injuries and could run forever. Without any substance or proof to it.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Although that's quite an understatement, I understand your point yes - but the "looking for reasons" started before we even won our first trophy under Klopp. Also on here, speculating that we were doping because we didn't get any injuries and could run forever. Without any substance or proof to it.

I’d say it has more to do with how much the same first 11 have played all season at a seemingly high intensity that’s raised the question, not you winning anything. As you say, it happened before you won the league

 

[RobinLFC]

I’d say it has more to do with how much the same first 11 have played all season at a seemingly high intensity that’s raised the question, not you winning anything. As you say, it happened before you won the league

Yeah fair enough, that's true indeed. But it could be down to:

- not signing injury-prone players;
- very good conditioning (which Klopp is known for);
- a great medical staff (combined with the above);
- just pure dumb luck.

And in an "innocent until proven guilty" society I'd rather believe one of the above than the "they are doping" argument which doesn't have any substance (heh) to it so far.

Also, the "their first XI never get injured" is a bit overblown too. Alisson missed a third of the season with injuries last season. TAA is injured sometimes but it's just never serious. Gomez has had his big share of injuries. So have Oxlade-Chamberlain, Henderson, and Keita. It just catches the eye because Van Dijk and our front three are seemingly never injured (and even they are from time to time, it's just that they miss just one or two games in those cases).

 

[Withnail]

That's exactly what i do when i read comments from Liverpool ** supporters.

It was nothing to do with doping though.

They were relegated as part of the match-fixing scandal.

 

[Champ]

too true. Phil Jones: long term asthmatic sufferer

On a more serious note - why is this not seriously investigated?

Because it would bring the entire footballing world into disrepute, causing Fifa, UEFA etc to highlight why it has gone on and been allowed to go on,.
If investigated and found to be true the organised football that we know would essentially be finished.
That's probably why it won't ever be investigated, a bit like that French doctors claim about Leicester, just swept under the rug.

 

[Champ]

Before the coronabreak, so August-March:

We have 1 player in the top 10 of most distance covered in a game, and it's Milner.
We have 1 player in the top 10 of most distance covered this season.
We are 7th in most distance covered as a team.
We are not even top 10 in most distance covered as a team during a single game.

People are always looking for reasons as to why another team is doing better than them. While Utd was on top, it was because Fergie bribed the FA. Now with Liverpool on top, it's because Klopp gives his players illegal PEDs. Both make no sense.

The distance covered stay is very misleading, take Ozil for example, consistently at the top of the charts for Arsenal for distance covered per game.
Yet you wouldn't have thought so! Reason being, he takes every free kick and corner, he gets tracked when he runs for a corner, or when he jogs to take a free kick etc.
A better more rounded stat to look at would be sprints, this highlights a greater athletic interest rather than ambles around a pitch.

 

[United58]

too true. Phil Jones: long term asthmatic sufferer

On a more serious note - why is this not seriously investigated?

Too much money in the game - if it was brought into disrepute, profits might suffer

 

[Joeace2020]

Liverpool and City use PEDs. Strip them of the titles. Make us 2018 & 2020 champions. We deserve it

 

[georgipep]

You're trying to defend the indefensible.

You are arguing without addressing the subject of the argument. Juventus were penalised for match fixing and bribery. Nothing to do with doping.

Liverpool alleged doping is a completely different story. I have no adequate knowledge in this specific area and can't form any strong opinion. Until there is more reliable information about all teams, it just seems like gossip. If, however, it is true, shame on them. I didn't need another reason to dislike them though.

 

[christinaa]

It was nothing to do with doping though.

They were relegated as part of the match-fixing scandal.

You are arguing without addressing the subject of the argument. Juventus were penalised for match fixing and bribery. Nothing to do with doping.

Liverpool alleged doping is a completely different story. I have no adequate knowledge in this specific area and can't form any strong opinion. Until there is more reliable information about all teams, it just seems like gossip. If, however, it is true, shame on them. I didn't need another reason to dislike them though.

If both of you don't know the story of Juventus and their doping history then it's there to be seen by everyone who wants to see it.

 

[Ish]

Because it would bring the entire footballing world into disrepute, causing Fifa, UEFA etc to highlight why it has gone on and been allowed to go on,.
If investigated and found to be true the organised football that we know would essentially be finished.
That's probably why it won't ever be investigated, a bit like that French doctors claim about Leicester, just swept under the rug.

Too much money in the game - if it was brought into disrepute, profits might suffer

Yeah, still a shocker though. Allegations have been made at various stages and various teams. Yet....zip.

 

[londonredmaniac]

nah, they are just picking up the accent

 

[United58]

Yeah, still a shocker though. Allegations have been made at various stages and various teams. Yet....zip.

Absolutely - I image loads of clubs are at it. Probably all, in one form or another

 

[Terminator]

Is the article actually true? How does the author know its 63%?

 

[fck]

The thing with doping is that there is a massive grey area because where does it start? Aren't IV injections legal for example?
Anyway anybody who believes that if there is doping in football, that only a select few teams (e.g. teams I hate and/or are currently successful) are doing it is living in fantasy land.

 

[Ish]

Absolutely - I image loads of clubs are at it. Probably all, in one form or another

Yep. They should actually just come out and legalize it (obviously there’s a limit to “it” ) if that’s the case. Then pretending it doesn’t/can’t happen and thereby giving some teams an advantage over others. (Assuming that’s the case)

 

[duffer]

Is the article actually true? How does the author know its 63%?

The article says "according to sources close to the club".

Which means he (or the bloke who works in the Anfield car park) made it up.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Yeah fair enough, that's true indeed. But it could be down to:

- not signing injury-prone players;
- very good conditioning (which Klopp is known for);
- a great medical staff (combined with the above);
- just pure dumb luck.

And in an "innocent until proven guilty" society I'd rather believe one of the above than the "they are doping" argument which doesn't have any substance (heh) to it so far.

Also, the "their first XI never get injured" is a bit overblown too. Alisson missed a third of the season with injuries last season. TAA is injured sometimes but it's just never serious. Gomez has had his big share of injuries. So have Oxlade-Chamberlain, Henderson, and Keita. It just catches the eye because Van Dijk and our front three are seemingly never injured (and even they are from time to time, it's just that they miss just one or two games in those cases).

Definitely a multitude of factors, I’m not saying it’s purely down to illegal or legal doping or doping at all.

 

[georgipep]

If both of you don't know the story of Juventus and their doping history then it's there to be seen by everyone who wants to see it.

If you are referring to the 96 scandal, it ended with the doctor being punished, not the club. That doesn't mean the club were innocent, it only means they weren't demoted. Phrase your arguments better.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Is the article actually true? How does the author know its 63%?

He would have taken the number of players with Asthma, divided it by how many players in the squad, then multiplied by 100 to get a percentage. It’s easy when you know how!
Sorry, Been reading too much Sir Michael

 

[christinaa]

If you are referring to the 96 scandal, it ended with the doctor being punished, not the club. That doesn't mean the club were innocent, it only means they weren't demoted. Phrase your arguments better.

I rest my case.

 

[United58]

Yep. They should actually just come out and legalize it (obviously there’s a limit to “it” ) if that’s the case. Then pretending it doesn’t/can’t happen and thereby giving some teams an advantage over others. (Assuming that’s the case)

But then they'd all use the legal stuff, and each club would push as far as they think they could get away with with the illegal stuff

 

[Withnail]

If both of you don't know the story of Juventus and their doping history then it's there to be seen by everyone who wants to see it.

I know all about it but it's got nothing to do with them getting relegated

 

[georgipep]

I rest my case.

Do you have comprehension difficulties? You wrote that Juventus were demoted to the 2nd division for doping:

This is exactly what Juventus had said when they were caught out with doping and they were demoted to the 2nd division.
Liverpool * have an American doctor with a history of this and we all have the right to believe what we think about this issue.

And they weren't demoted for doping, ever. They were involved in a doping scandal in the 90s but were never punished for it (especially to the severity of demotion). They were also demoted in the 00s but for a completely different offense (match fixing and bribery).

If you can't form arguments correctly you will lose them more often than not.

 

[DatIrishFella]

Feck. Completely forgot about Juve's recent history. What a shady club.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Apparently, roughly one person in twelve has asthma (varying degrees of severity) in the UK. Which is considered a high percentage compared to - well - comparable countries.

So, at first glance (at least), 63% seems extremely odd.

ETA That said, I have heard people claim that top athletes have a tendency to develop asthma because - well - they're top athletes (I don't know what sort of science backs this up - but I presume it has something to do with pushing lung capacity to the max, etc.).

Exercise-induced asthma presents shortly after the initiation of intensive physical exercise and involves inflammation and narrowing of the airways. This leads to the presentation of asthma symptoms such as difficulty breathing and wheezing.

This type of asthma affects almost all people that suffer from asthma, but can also present in individuals that do not otherwise note symptoms of the condition.

More:

Much more common in sport is exercise-induced asthma, or EIA, in which rapid and heavy breathing causes the same symptoms. The effect can be exacerbated by atmospheric conditions, which means some sportspeople tend to suffer more than others.

John Dickinson from Kent University’s school of sport & exercise sciences, a world expert on asthma in sport, tested all 33 UK-based members of the British swimming squad and found 70% had some form of asthma, against a national asthma rate of about 8% to 10%. It is believed the chlorinated atmosphere of a pool could be a factor in this.

Cycling is another sport where EIA is common – Dickinson’s test on cyclists from Team Sky found a third have the condition. Rapid inhalation of cold, dry air has been identified as a trigger of EIA. Around half of elite cross-country skiers have the condition, as does Paula Radcliffe.

While EIA can occasionally bring on have very serious symptoms, sometimes athletes do not realise they have it until they are tested. The test involves them breathing a very dry air mixture for six minutes at high ventilation, with their lung function tested before and after. The asthma-induced fall in lung function can be as much as 40%.

Speaking to the Guardian in 2014, Dickinson said the condition remained a source of some debate: “It depends which respiratory consultant you talk to on whether you put these athletes on a spectrum of asthma, or whether you think that’s purely down to them exercising really hard in a certain environment, and if you take them out of that environment they’re fine. It’s a grey zone. But my argument is it’s a form of asthma.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/29/elite-athletes-asthma-simon-yates-team-sky-swimmers

 

[Ish]

But then they'd all use the legal stuff, and each club would push as far as they think they could get away with with the illegal stuff

Then they really should just ramp up the testing, but nonetheless - valid point

 

[Green_Red]

Well its clear now, Klopp needs access to HRT drugs for the team.

 

[Bwuk]

Cycling off it this year and the players are clearly struggling. Liverpool don't look as fit or as strong, and they've been plagued by injuries.

 

[Moonwalker]

Reads like something Ranchero or Debilish would write.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Firstly Pool are not struggling and definitely not "plagued" by injuries. In other clubs, it is called a normal year.

Secondly, what has this to do with asthma?

 

[RedTiger]

Firstly Pool are not struggling and definitely not "plagued" by injuries. In other clubs, it is called a normal year.

Secondly, what has this to do with asthma?

If a sportsman has asthma, they can legally take Salbutamol which is a steroid.

 

[groovyalbert]

If a sportsman has asthma, they can legally take Salbutamol which is a steroid.

Which is why Scholesy was so fecking stacked

 

[Bwuk]

Firstly Pool are not struggling and definitely not "plagued" by injuries. In other clubs, it is called a normal year.

Secondly, what has this to do with asthma?

They aren’t struggling but they’ve dropped levels massively from the previous 2 seasons.

They have had many players injured. Any LFC fan on this forum would be quick to list them.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If a sportsman has asthma, they can legally take Salbutamol which is a steroid.

So now they are not getting their stuff?

 

[Kasper]

Cycling off it this year and the players are clearly struggling. Liverpool don't look as fit or as strong, and they've been plagued by injuries.

What do you mean? They're not taking it anymore? Any source to that claim? If they were ever on Salbutamol, why would that source have dried up?

 

[Crustanoid]

They beat Aston Villa though? No need for drugs tonight, eh?